Suggestion: Generate additional revenue

[LOVWYRM]

Frith, let me disagree with you in one point:

We do not have endgame content?
So what do all this vet players do (who are the majority and who log in every day for hours) all day long?
I play endgame content since I entered Order many years ago.
And I`m always busy-and so are my friends.
Endgame means too, that you can do what you like
and not what you think you have to do.
And all that patches and content updates keep us busy.
Playing everything that the game offers ( and yes, newbies or less experienced players do not know all about that, which is a pitty) is the hidden secret, why we have so much vets here. There is lots of endgame content, often available for lower level too.

[FoxFlame]

I keep hearing from others that I (or anyone in favor of some things I've suggested) am in a "rush" or "hurry" to "win" the game. I could have sworn I already said I'm not. I also keep making suggestions to slow down any solutions I propose because this seems to be a very grave concern. (Something no one has bothered to say anything about.) I can't think of any other manner to explain how these aforementioned statements are incorrect. I don't want instant-gratification, I just don't want to be bored to tears. I'm not in a rush; I just don't think some aspects of the game are fun and was looking to help Istaria generate revenue with that as a motivator. *shrug* If the suggestions are believed unfair, suggest a way to make them fair.

Perhaps when one is able to play the game for 100 or more hours a month, it would seem like haste to want to purchase resources. Such an individual clearly has the time go gather these themselves, and this would break up the 75 or so hours dedicated to other activities such as killing enemies, crafting items, or just screwing around.

When one only has 10 (or fewer) hours out of a month to play a game, suddenly the idea of spending time mindlessly clicking on rocks is increasingly unfavorable when paying someone a dollar an hour to do it. It feels more like punishment, and encourages this entire demographic of players (and their money) away from this game and into the coffers of another. If Istaria doesn't want these players that's its prerogative. It just seemed a shame to shove away an entire market segment when the thing that makes this game (that seems like it could use more people) truly unique in the MMO market would appeal enough to some of them to want to play. I was one. This is why I'd suggested this.

Frith-Rae: I brought up ROI. (Though I didn't call it that) It's why I was looking for items that were easy for the devs to implement.

I'm not sure how much I'll be able to contribute to this thread for a bit (new pay period; was excessively over on hours last period; was taking a lot of breaks to post here) so please don't think I don't care about this subject anymore; I just don't have the time to (properly) discuss it.

And while I think it's been made quite clear by many here that I should be playing any other game given my limited free time, I hope this thread at the very least achieves its intended purpose.

[Ettanin]

If you don't want to grind and time is too short, then don't do it and ask around for a helping hand. If there's none, then there's none, ask again at another time.
Sure, some may take virtual coin (ingame money) as a payment for the extra work, but virtual coin is a valid and acceptable payment value.

Putting RL $ on the other hand for grind skippers is a slap in the face for the devoted playerbase and is true cheating.

In short:
Istaria is not made for players who want to achieve anything this game has to offer but only have a limited amount of time.
And it's very likely to stay that way.

Alternative if that fact makes Istaria too expensive:
Add daily or weekly manual payment methods (non-recurring):
This adds flexibility in the times and days in which the player wants to play.

(The prices are suggesstions and may be different from what VI may see as appropiate)
Basic access:
Weekly: 3.25 USD
Daily: 0.50 USD

Gifted access:
Weekly: 4.75 USD
Daily: 0.75 USD

A daily and/or weekly access plan may not be that hard to implement into the existing account structure as it is already time based.

[LOVWYRM]

Fox- as far as I read- noone wants you to leave us.

We would not discuss, if we did not take you and your input serious.
And its appreciated- it shoes clearly what players from other worlds might expect. And this is always important to know- and will be considered on the long term.

If you do not have time to play "24/7"- why not explore the wonderful world
of Istaria- leveling your char with open eyes and no hurry. Why bother with crafting? You will get what you need - the community is like that.

But I got your point- it has been discussed before- I even would say regulary.
Many changes have been done.
Hard - core vets even say: Lots of things are too easy now-
too much golden plates.
But that shows that the game is in continual motion
noone is sleeping or closing eyes to the changing markets.

We are still here- we are in the black- we (devs/players) discuss, agree and disagree.

And though there are some holy cows (no pvp, no rl money ingame advantage) we are happy to listen to the ideas of our new co- players.

Happy gaming

[Frith-Rae]

Frith, let me disagree with you in one point:

We do not have endgame content?
So what do all this vet players do (who are the majority and who log in every day for hours) all day long?
I play endgame content since I entered Order many years ago.
And I`m always busy-and so are my friends.
Endgame means too, that you can do what you like

Outside of the dungeon itself, and the epic/level 100 mobs - no, this game has no "end game" in the way other games mean "endgame".

I did not mean to say there is nothing to do. I was saying that the way 95% of other games define "end game" is NOT what Istaria has. I was not saying it didn't have perks, cuz it does. But there is no real "end game" the way most gamers would expect. I.e. there isn't suddenly all this content you couldn't experience while leveling. There is a tiny bit, yes, but not half the content many other games provide at "endgame".

And Fox, I know your intent is not to speed things up - but that is a natural other-efffect if you will of some of your suggestions. If you are buying leveling pots, or even XYZ amount of resource, that IS making something faster.

And not only that - but you speak of just wanting to get past,or not do,something you do not enjoy. Ok. You dont have to do it - actually. There are players who hardly ever craft, and hardly ever adventure.

I mean I can think of no game I play (and I play several at once) that doesnt have some part I don't want to engage in. So I do not, if I can. I don't ask for the company to provide a way for me to speed that up, or skip, or get around. I just don't do it *shrugs*. If I HAVE to do it, I get what is required done and I accept it - or I decide the game is not for me if it is requireing me to do too many things I find boring.

I understand your frustration,and the boredom, truly I do. I think many of us would like to see the game grow financially so that other things can happen faster. But the in-game benefit stuff just isn't the way. It changes the whole game.

[Kesqui]

I've realized there may be some confusion. Just for clarification, if I mention crafting, I'm only referring to the creation of new products from raw materials, not the logistics involved in acquiring said materials. I'm not sure how many people refer to it 'bundled' versus separately. (I.e. To me, at least, gathering resources is not part of the 'crafting' process.)

Most crafters on Istaria tend to lump resource acquisition with resource processing with refined resource utilisation - it's all part of the crafting process.

Foxflame, if you've got ten or fewer hours to play per month, I can understand that you want to maximise your fun-time and do the things you like doing - and reduce the amount of less fun time spent doing things that you, as an individual player, don't like doing.

I would strongly recommend the following in those circumstances:
1. Switch on the "glide" option if you're playing a hatchling dragon. It sure makes being a hatchling more fun There are impressive long glides, that's for sure (try the Tower of Nature to Kion - AWESOME glide) - and you can't do them once you earn your wings proper.
2. Talk to folks in the Dragon, Marketplace and New Player Assistance channels - get to know the craftmaniacs who might be willing to assist you with the resource-gathering aspect of crafting or sell you gathered raw resources - or who might fill a public silo full of resources for you. If you're on Chaos, send Kesqui_unity a /tell - yes, I'm volunteering.

I believe in the pay-it-forward method - I help you in the hopes that you'll help someone else out when they're the new player

Other things I think might help increase revenue:

What's the "merchandise setup fee" listed in Accounts management? Explaining what it is and what you can do with it more clearly ("Get a coffee mug with your character!") would be helpful. Would I spend real-world money to get a real-world mug with Kesqui on it? Yes - and if I can make that money go to Istaria, rather than doing a private Cafepress / Zazzle job myself, brilliant. Just point me in the right direction.

I actually bought a second-hand copy of the Horizons player guidebook that arrived today - it mentions action figures in the back of the book. Did that go by the wayside in 2003/2004? With rapid-prototyping machinery becoming attainable - although probably still out of Istaria's budget for now - a paint-it-yourself miniature model of your character wouldn't technically be impossible. Pie in the sky now - but 3D Printers are coming down in price.

[Nisse]

I actually bought a second-hand copy of the Horizons player guidebook that arrived today - it mentions action figures in the back of the book. Did that go by the wayside in 2003/2004? With rapid-prototyping machinery becoming attainable - although probably still out of Istaria's budget for now - a paint-it-yourself miniature model of your character wouldn't technically be impossible. Pie in the sky now - but 3D Printers are coming down in price.

I have been thinking of something that's a bit similar. Papercraft patterns of various easy to build, low poly things from around Istaria. With Pepakura, it's possible to take 3D data and turn it into papercraft. A node of sandstone, or a ruxus on your desk might be something cool.

[Akrion]

Outside of the dungeon itself, and the epic/level 100 mobs - no, this game has no "end game" in the way other games mean "endgame".

'End Game' just means the ending scenario of a game. There is no set term for it. Istaria has just much of an End Game as WoW does, and WoW has just as much of an End Game as Super Mario Bros 1 does.

Also, what other games mean 'end game' in the same way which Istaria is alone in? Istaria's 'End Game' is different from WoW's 'End Game' which is different from Eve Online's 'End Game' which was different from Tabula Rasa's end game, which is different from Halo's 'End Game' ...

Istaria is just generally lacking in things to do as a whole, it has little to do with anything 'end game'. Most of your time is spent 'just leveling up'. Dragons generally have more to do with their RoP and ARoP, though. But Virtrium seems to be trying to improve on this fact at least. Besides, Delgarath is very much like the sort of 'End Game' you might expect in a game like WoW, there's just nowhere near as much of it which again is just a lack of things to do as a whole.

[Oakleif]

Istaria is just generally lacking in things to do as a whole...

This goes back to the game's original design. Istaria (originally Horizons) was designed as a sandbox game, where the world is provided, but it is mainly up to players to interact with each other and the world. This is a very different design than most games where its up to the developers to create NPC's for you to interact with and provide many quests to lead you from one NPC to another, from one region to another.

Having said that, note that the beginning levels have been set up in the more common design as players learn to interact with the world, then slowly weaned away from that as they have been in the world longer and are able to begin finding their own path through the world.

At least, that has always been my interpretation of the evidence.

[Raptress]

Having said that, note that the beginning levels have been set up in the more common design as players learn to interact with the world, then slowly weaned away from that as they have been in the world longer and are able to begin finding their own path through the world.

My interpretation of the lacking content in tiers 3 and 4 is more just that the devs haven't gotten to doing revamps for those tiers yet. I never thought that a lack of content was really a design decision so much as just.. a lack of content. It's fairly common knowledge that Istaria was rushed out the door before it was ready, and I think the lack of content was merely evidence of that. Thus, Virtrium is working to rectify the situation with such things as tier revamps.

The presence of quests does not do anything to detract from Istaria's sandbox game nature. Having quests to do doesn't stop you from "finding your own path through the world," it just gives you more things to do. It's not as if Istaria's quests are as "hand-hold-y" as those is many other games anyway; you still have to learn and do a great many things on your own after the NPCs teach you the basics.

[fermi443]

@Raptress

I should be more specific then. When I said "We" I meant we as a community. Brainstorming or helping the devs out, offering fresh ideas and insight helps improve this game considerably. I have plenty of ideas I've expressed in other topics I've created. Have a look at my recent suggestions for gameplay improvements. I play exclusively on the Blight shard. I'm more than aware of the changes and content being released, and even commended the recent coordinate system change in another topic. I've given my thoughts by agreeing with the original thoughts of the OP. A raised, metaphorical, hand in favor showing support.

As to save myself the time I'd rather not retype my more elaborate opinions I've already expressed in the other threads I've created. Not only because I'm lazy, but for lack of a better term, so I don't sound like a broken record.

Like I said, If we do nothing, nothing will get done. Obviously the help we offer the devs as a community, will improve the game for the better.

---

-I wouldn't call Istaria a "sandbox" in nature, because you really can't do anything but the quests the way they were designed.

-There is no option to take 'dark side quests'. There is no playing the bad guy, or the middle man if you so choose. I cannot pick option B. and play as a highwayman drake who wishes to plunder from unsuspecting trade caravans passing through The Long Walk. Istaria is an open world with really only a few choices besides following a few quest lines. It's really either, Explore, Quest, Craft(repair generic static structures.), or RP(imagination).

-Exploration isn't rewarded correctly. The player doesn't earn anything for traveling from point A. to point B. Now one could argue that the player may find some quests at point B., but that doesn't directly tickle the player's adventuring efforts, more than offer some intermediary task they now have to do because they wandered here. Offering some visuals, experience, stat bonuses, or progressive notoriety in the areas you explore and become used to, are ways to reward it correctly.

-There isn't enough emphasis on teamwork or becoming more advanced in technique.

-Each iteration of the same move you unlock doesn't feel any different besides the statistical difference. It doesn't feel like your character is doing anything different for that matter. Also a lot of the quests feel like just another path to unlocking something. One of the only few quests that actually made me feel necessarily effective as a character, was the one where the guard forgot his lunch in Tazoon. One more thought before I finish. Funneling. An option that could be accessed via a help menu. Basically have it look at the next available action for your character. Say, I want a quest for crafting, or a task. I press the button in the help menu, the game looks at my stats, and sets up a waypoint to either a buildable in game structure, or an NPC with a crafting quest to match my current abilities and progression. If none are available it comes up with a generic task, and awards currency.

[LOVWYRM]

fermi,
we have lots of nice quests to explore the suroundings of Delgarath,
or find your way to Delgarath.
Not sure if there is similar for lower level.
Dragon RoP and ARroP is lots of exploring too.
Or do you mean something else?

[Raptress]

-I wouldn't call Istaria a "sandbox" in nature, because you really can't do anything but the quests the way they were designed.

..And in what game exactly can you complete a quest in a manner other than what the programmers designed? Being able to complete a quest (in any game) in a manner other than the intended way is, as far as I know, impossible.

I refer to Istaria as a sandbox-like game because, unlike many other games, you aren't really funneled down very specific paths as you play through the game. A lot of Istaria consists of players setting their own, non-game-dictated goals.

Example: rather than going through a quest line at level 20 where a player is given a prebuilt house/apartment, in Istaria, the player can choose to pick up a construction class and start to earn money towards buying their own plot even if they're in no adventure classes at all. There's nothing in the game telling them to do that; it's a completely player-set goal.

Quests in Istaria detract from grind and/or provide unique rewards; they don't dictate where you have to be and what you have to be doing to be successful in the game. You could go throughout your entire character's life without doing any quests if you really wanted to. It would likely slow down your progression on the combat side of things a bit, but some players in Istaria aren't even interested in combat. Where are the quests they "have" to follow?

Istaria is an open world with really only a few choices besides following a few quest lines. It's really either, Explore, Quest, Craft(repair generic static structures.), or RP(imagination).

You've forgotten Adventuring in there somewhere. And by "Craft(repair generic static structures)," are you trying to say that that's all you do with crafting in this game? If so, that's untrue, and I'm stumped as to how one could miss the fact that crafting is practically half of the game to some, and almost all of the game to others. Also, I would like to see an example of another MMO that has significantly more choices than that.

WoW, for example, has Explore, Quest, RP, Dungeons, and PvP. I don't count it as having Craft because crafting is completely secondary in WoW; you must raise your adventuring level to keep crafting. Even then, crafting either has an adventuring component or isn't really done fulltime. I don't count it as having Adventuring because there's almost no point to doing that over Questing, so they may as well be counted as the same.

[Kesqui]

..And in what game exactly can you complete a quest in a manner other than what the programmers designed? Being able to complete a quest (in any game) in a manner other than the intended way is, as far as I know, impossible.

I once completed a specific goal in Jurassic Park: Trespasser in a way I don't believe the game developers expected... because they expected you to get a key card from inside a building, which we completely ignored and spent far, far too long stacking up boxes and tyres and other environmental debris to climb over the wall instead of going through the gate.

I *really* like games that make you think "the developers must have thought of everything" instead of "the developers want you to do it this way and it can't be done any other way."

Other things that'd get me to hand over more money than I already do:

More complicated tints/markings on dragon characters (imagine: silvery base colour with swirls that have a fade from transparent to rainbow-colours on the back, or green that fades from lightest green on the belly to darkest forest green on the back... an RGB slider function for colours would be cool too, or the ability to have "white" markings like the NPCs Orthondrin and Khalentaris do) - would buy extra character slots just to make pretty coloured alts

Visible "fluff" jewellery (I was saying in-game last night, Kesqui doesn't want a techniqued-to-the-gills necklace, she just wants a pretty one she can wear and everyone can see.)

The ability to add custom sparklies to my lair - maybe falling snow instead of the floating glows/ash fall, for example - or falling leaves - custom THEMES for lair chambers (imagine lair chambers set up as "forest/jungle" with ferns, fungi and wood textures instead of crystals and the twisty thingies - or "tundra" with ice/snow/frozen waterfalls)

I realise *all* my suggestions are geared towards dragons. Sorry 'bout that - that's all I'm here for, I don't play biped characters.

[LOVWYRM]

I agree to what you`ve said, Kesqui,
and dragon fluff like lair decoration or jewelry to wear- yes please!!!

[Akrion]

I once completed a specific goal in Jurassic Park: Trespasser in a way I don't believe the game developers expected... because they expected you to get a key card from inside a building, which we completely ignored and spent far, far too long stacking up boxes and tyres and other environmental debris to climb over the wall instead of going through the gate.

Trespasser never had any specific goals other than 'Reach the end by any means you can' in which case that's not entirely a quest and could instead be related better to leveling up a biped (for example) in Istaria, which school(s) you take, how you go about getting experience to level up, etc.

I don't believe the developers for Trespasser expected people to go about things exactly how they planned it and rather just find a way through a problem, especially since they put so much time designing the first known true physics engine in a game and allowed you to really get creative with your thinking. They wouldn't have designed the game as free form as it is if they just wanted you to follow a set path.

[Kesqui]

I don't believe the developers for Trespasser expected people to go about things exactly how they planned it and rather just find a way through a problem, especially since they put so much time designing the first known true physics engine in a game and allowed you to really get creative with your thinking. They wouldn't have designed the game as free form as it is if they just wanted you to follow a set path.

They definitely did intend - in that particular puzzle - for you to stack up three boxes that were inside a building to get to the first accessible step of a broken stairwell, and retrieve the purple key-card. Otherwise, there wouldn't have been voiceover content/etc up there....

And if they intended our solution, I think they might have installed "friction" into their physics engine Arm Sim 1998 was ambitious - far too ambitious for its rushed-to-release-date.

My partner suggests fancier visual armour/clothes for further fluff options - and maybe a more distinctive "Istaria" design for biped gear.

[Ettanin]

WoW, for example, has Explore, Quest, RP, Dungeons, and PvP. I don't count it as having Craft because crafting is completely secondary in WoW; you must raise your adventuring level to keep crafting. Even then, crafting either has an adventuring component or isn't really done fulltime. I don't count it as having Adventuring because there's almost no point to doing that over Questing, so they may as well be counted as the same.

WoW plays entirely different than Istaria. In WoW, this sort of "crafting" that exists there needs intense time on farming which slows your leveling down. I like the Istarian craft system more as it is truely indifferent to your adventuring and does, in fact, not hinder that.
If you don't want to lose time leveling your craft in WoW, you'll surely spend much gold, which is not that nice.
In Istaria, on the other hand, virtually every craft ingredient is easily gatherable. This is not the case in WoW.

[Raptress]

WoW plays entirely different than Istaria. In WoW, this sort of "crafting" that exists there needs intense time on farming which slows your leveling down. I like the Istarian craft system more as it is truely indifferent to your adventuring and does, in fact, not hinder that.
If you don't want to lose time leveling your craft in WoW, you'll surely spend much gold, which is not that nice.
In Istaria, on the other hand, virtually every craft ingredient is easily gatherable. This is not the case in WoW.

I'm not entirely sure how to respond to this, since I was in no way saying that WoW was like Istaria. So.. I'm glad you agree with me, I guess?

I once completed a specific goal in Jurassic Park: Trespasser in a way I don't believe the game developers expected... because they expected you to get a key card from inside a building, which we completely ignored and spent far, far too long stacking up boxes and tyres and other environmental debris to climb over the wall instead of going through the gate.

I'm of the mind that, if the developers truly did not expect that a player might bypass that goal in some way, that bypassing it would have broken the game.

Computers only do what they're told to do; they can't see that a player has found another solution and then decide if that solution is viable or not. The programmers must be the ones to tell the computer how to react. Part of good game design is likely putting in a ton of failsafes should the player do something unexpected so that the game doesn't break when it happens.

'S all kind of beside the point though. Trespasser is very, very far removed from Istaria and how Istaria has to handle quests, which is what I was really talking about.

[Ettanin]

I'm not entirely sure how to respond to this, since I was in no way saying that WoW was like Istaria. So.. I'm glad you agree with me, I guess?

Sort of, yes i do.