Spin-off: Why should anyone start playing Istaria?

[FoxFlame]

This is a spin-off topic from another thread was was originally created for a different purpose:
http://community.istaria.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=24865

This thread's purpose is intended to be broad, including topics of enticing new players and examining the differences between Istaria and other games, in many, if not all, facets. It is expected to be a logical and intellectual discussion with objective opinions from those considering these matters. Please try to quantify values when possible to avoid confusion or unreasonable assumptions. (I.e. Use units of measure rather than ambiguous adjectives; E.g. Rather than "It should take longer" please state "It should take twice as long") I realize this is a strange request but assumptions generate a great deal of miscommunication and misunderstanding.
We're all emotional beings, and many will undoubtedly be very passionate about a number of subjects that are raised within this topic. In my experiences this community has shown that it can both adequately state the opinions of individuals with in it, while fully respecting and understanding the opinions of others. I would hope this continues to be the case here.

As I'm getting the ball rolling, I'm going to state the obvious:

What Istaria has going for it:

• You can be a dragon -- This is (AFAIK) unique to the MMO world
• A very mature, helpful player base
• A sophisticated crafting system, including structures

What Istaria has working against it:

• A dated graphics engine
• A very small player base (contrasted to more popular MMOs)
• The fact that much of what makes up Istaria has been done, and done better by many other MMOs

The last 'con' in that list is a bit ambiguous, so I included the link to the first 'hit' of a google search of "Istaria review". From the point of the outside observer, the review is highly objective and fairly well written. Unfortunately, it was written in 2004, and after all Istaria has been through, with an even lower player base now, and graphics that (unless an update was applied I wasn't made aware of) are now over 7 years old. So it raises the question:

Why should anyone start playing Istaria?

I phrase the above question very specifically. Those who have been playing for any period of time have an obvious investment in the game, and the value of their time and money is a decision for them to make. As such, this is designed to ask why new people would choose Istaria over the plethora of other games out there.

I've been told several times that the best way to generate additional revenue (in the aforementioned thread) was to "spread the word". The problem with this solution may now be a bit more apparent after reading the review above, but psychology comes into play as well: Those who are well entrenched into the game of Istaria, who have played for years and come to enjoy it despite it's flaws may not see them anymore. It's easier to "spread the word" when you only mention those first three bullet points I listed, without any of those that follow them. Unfortunately after arriving, anyone having been told they have to pay the same amount to be a dragon in a several year old game with far less players than a newer game with the same subscription price will not only feel duped but may even leave purely out of spite. If that person is a friend of yours, their opinion of you may have even dropped. You've effectively committed the digital equivalent of setting your friend up on a blind date and described the person as "having a great personality." (And let's face it, in the world of online gaming, Istaria's not exactly the belle of the ball anymore)

The fact that the massive crafting system with cooperative building of structures is almost nullified by the relatively small player base doesn't help the selling point. The fact that many locations are ghost towns because the map is entirely too large for the player base gives the game a very lonely and 'dying' feeling.

I'm going to skip over the typical gamer who would enjoy playing a game in the same genre as Istaria, because they'd have to really, really, really like dragons to pass up all the other games like Istaria on the market that provide essentially the same product, some for free. Free free to comment on this demographic though, of course.

I'm going to move onto the demographic I believe most likely to 'fit in' with a great deal of the personality I see in the Istaria community. (Which is the only reason I'm even about at this point.)

Casual Gamers - Working Professionals

As an older, casual gamer, I'm not as put off by dated graphics as some of the younger generations could be. I also enjoy the mature community. I was originally drawn back to this game after playing over half a decade ago because I remembered "That one game that let me play as a dragon." But, alas, I'm not a kid anymore. I don't have several hours out of every day without responsibility to spend clicking on rocks and gathering other resources. It could be argued that I shouldn't be playing games at all, and perhaps Istaria simply isn't right for me. Regardless, I now have to choose how I spend what little free time I have very carefully to ensure it reduces stress and is somewhat entertaining. As such, gathering resources to progress as a dragon (as I've little interest in the other races) is, well, work.

Grinding

I have a few truths that apply to me. They may apply to you as well:

Truth 1: A game is defined as an activity providing entertainment or amusement.
Truth 2: People pay me to work. Work usually isn't fun; that's why it's called 'work' and not 'fun'.
Truth 3: I pay people so I can have fun. This typically results in work for the people I'm paying.

Grinding does not fit into these truths. It attempts to persuade me to pay others to do that which I inevitably view as work. The answer to this is usually, "Well then only do it for a bit, until it stops being fun." This is a practical solution to grinding where you're out with friends killing creatures, or achieving some goal. However, when applied to resource gathering that logic would result in me never doing it, as it...isn't fun. Ever. Which, by the truths I mentioned earlier, would imply it's work. Yet I'm paying someone, so I should be having fun. You might see why this seems very wrong from my point of view.

This wouldn't be a problem if I wasn't required to generate resources to advance as a dragon. I'd simply slaughter and craft things (while it was fun) until I advanced.

So, as a casual gamer, I'm reluctantly unable to play Istaria, unless I were to implement the next truth:

Truth 4: If you don't have more time than money, pay someone to do the work preventing you from having fun.

Now, you might wonder what some of those responsibilities I mentioned earlier are. Part of them are fixing up my house, and I spend a lot of time on that. It's a higher priority than playing a game. Now if I really wanted something done quickly, and I didn't want to do it because I had something fun I wanted to do instead, I'd pay a professional, such as an electrician or plumber. I don't do this because they charge me $100 an hour to do something I know how to do. So I sacrifice what would otherwise be free time to do that.

By this same thought process, if I'm paying to have fun, and have hit a part of the game that isn't fun, I can recursively call that truth again, paying more money to have fun. Didn't follow? I could pay someone to gather resources for me, either on my account or their own. That way when I do have time to play again, it's actually fun.

It could then be argued that if I paid the electrician to do the work for me, I could gather the resources for myself. This is true...but I believe you might guess that, between an electrician and a resource gatherer on an electronic game, who might charge more per hour. Most of the time I'd bet on the electrician, as resource gathering is so easy a child could do it. The best part is that they wouldn't, as even a small child would nonchalantly tell you it's not any fun, then possibly proceed to run outside and happily eat dirt. *smile*

So...when little known games geared towards casual players such as Dream of Mirror Online have an equally strong community, a world so crowded I rarely have issues finding groups, and small items players can buy that will gather resources for them (Even though one can AFK gather in guarded areas so I never bother) what would the appeal of Istaria be?

That question isn't rhetorical. Given the current population of Istaria I can imagine a great many people have asked the same question and came up with no good answer.

The Future

So the next real question is: should anything change?
People are afraid of change, and yet demand it all the time. Without knowledge of whether Istaria subscriptions are rising or falling, it's difficult to answer. Obviously it can support itself right now, and afford to pay for updates from time to time. But it's in a constant battle against time. If it's "staying the course" at the moment, the amount of new players will continue to decline. I don't even want to know how difficult it is now to get a group going at higher levels, but that, like many other aspects of the game, (economy) will only continue to falter unless a new influx of players occur.

I know few people want to hear about this, but as it was called once already, it's the big, white elephant in the room that is obvious on any website you visit in regards to this game. Perhaps it's time to discuss it as a community without the knee-jerk, defensive reactions that is human nature.

Thank you very much for reading my post.

[Kesqui]

Well, my "why should anyone play Istaria" is simple.

There is no other game where you can play a dragon that can be visually customised in a graphically lovely world.

Yes, that is literally enough for me to pay for my own subscription and my partner's. I don't want to play a human or humanoid character at all - and if there was no MMORPG where I could play a dragon, I simply wouldn't play any MMO.

You say "dated graphics engine". I say "thank goodness, because 'real is brown' and I don't want real, I want pretty colours without cartoony looks." I still think Istaria makes some of the prettiest screenshots out there, pretty enough that I actually use them as my work desktop image. Now, if models could be tightened up (so they don't use extra geometry they don't need) so that they can then be further detailed (for example providing visible dragon armour scales) brilliant.

I am a working-professional casual gamer.
If I don't have time to craft.... I don't.
If I have time to sit and craft.... I do.
I like crafting - I find *fighting* to be the unpleasant grind. I was a player who, in 2004 when ROP had finally been announced, was desperately disappointed to find out there was an ADV level requirement - and that it was higher than the CRA one.

However, the way that Virtrium has set up the dragon quests now - and the tiered equipment/scales, it's relatively easy to level in both ADV and CRA (yes, there is a little bit of 'grind' as you put it on the latter) but if you know someone who's friendly and willing to give (or sell!) some of their time to collect some materials for you (and I count that as "economy"), the craft grind can be lessened. At least on Chaos server, it is possible to start working T2 Iron from level 11 (instead of level 20) if you ask the right people. In that specific case, me - if a dragon who wants help crafting on Chaos sends me a /tell and is willing to offer something in exchange for Kesqui's or Sodalite's time collecting a public-accessible silo full of iron ore for them, showing them the player-built smelter with the right bonuses and providing a set of Smelting scales, the facility is there. And I know it works from level 11 because my partner's 2003 toon was level 11 when we restored him - and he never had to work any T1 materials to get to level 20. Heck, I even wrote a guide on what's needed to do ROP at that bare-minimum craft level because I know that not everyone is a crafter at heart.

So, there's another reason "why to play Istaria".

You say "very small player base" - I say "close-knit family of players."

Perfect strangers offered me an awful lot of help when I returned in late 2009 after a long, long nap - from helping with fights to providing well-paid work on lairs for me to get my crafting and lairshaping skills up... the community is great. I have played exactly one other MMORPG, a free one whose name I can't remember, and the word "community" did not describe the playerbase. What you had was roving bands of PVPing little monstrosities who charged in and killed newbies - even newbies who had PVP-no set (which just meant you didn't lose your gear when you died, not that people couldn't kill you). And, of course, if you decided (once you'd survived long enough to actually get a level or two) to run to a newbie's rescue, you got flagged for PVP-yes... rinse, repeat. Hate. Hate hate hate. No, I think the small playerbase, with a lot of integrity, is something in Istaria's favour. Got a public-access silo? Nearly all of the time, you can load it up with something and expect that it'll be there when you get back. And when someone does naffle something from a public silo you're working, don't be surprised if a few players come over to help you load it back up.

For me, the key thing that keeps me playing, though ... hasn't been done by any other MMO and I really, really can't understand why not.

[C`gan]

What Istaria has going for it:

• You can be a dragon -- This is (AFAIK) unique to the MMO world
• A very mature, helpful player base
• A sophisticated crafting system, including structures

What Istaria has working against it:

• A dated graphics engine
• A very small player base (contrasted to more popular MMOs)
• The fact that much of what makes up Istaria has been done, and done better by many other MMOs.

In this, I will argue something. Much of what makes up Istaria has NOT been done by other MMOs. While many other MMOs have housing, the houses are instanced and the outside is all cookie-cutter "here's your house". In Istaria, the housing is custom. You choose what's on your plot or lair. Your decor is entirely up to you to help out yourself, your guild, or your community. If you want help in building, ask. In your diatribe of talking about how empty and unfinished player structures are, you came to a conclusion that there aren't enough people to build and that it's too much of a grind. I must counter this with the position of my own plot on Order shard in Acul, where all the resources except oak and iron and steel and glowings had to be trucked in, inventory load by inventory load because, at the time, disks weren't teleportable and we as a guild were building the vault, too.

While the population may be "low" compared to hugely-marketed and overhyped games, the volunteer factor of the old-fashioned barnraising still exists in Istaria and I am happy to be one of the people others turn to to make these events happen from time to time.

I have yet to see such community involvement in any other game.

[StalePopcorn]

This is now my third "official" return to Istaria, both previous times including a 1yr plus break between sessions. Both breaks coincided with the arrival of family members - the small kind

My list of "yay Istaria" includes:

1. I am in Australia, so regularly see <50 people in the "/who" list. But as mentioned by Kesqui, even with those limited numbers I can still chat to people in New Player or Market.

2. I have no demands on my time in Istaria, so I can choose to craft, adventure, build, explore, etc. I am not playing Istaria to "win", I am playing to play - for fun.

3. Levelling is a slow process. But I'm in no hurry. See above (2) - there is no "win". Just "play".

4. No PvP = no tards. Occasionally people pop up in New Player and ask for "l337 goodies now". They are gently (most of the time instructed that Istaria isn't like that. Some of them go, some of them stay.

5. There are consistent incremental updates to the game, complete with feedback from devs, testers, players etc. They can't do everything, but it seems to me what they can, they do. Name me a game (let alone a MMORPG) that had even close to that level of participation with the community.

6. You can submit ideas/quests/other stuff to the devs and expect a response. They might say "no", they might say "maybe, can't promise anything". But that's pretty cool anyway (see 5).

7. I've got a plot of land. I can build stuff on it. I can help other people build stuff. That's fun, and makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside

8. If I want something, I can generally ask nicely and get it. New armor? np, just supply the ingredients. No ingredients? Trade you for a silo full of (xyz). Need help with something? Sure thing, just ask.

But of course it isn't all roses:

1. No effective economy. Prior to everyone getting to level 100 in a stack of craft levels, the economy was pretty good. I could make money crafting jewelry, which I then used to buy other stuff. Istaria needs to charge for *everything* in order to develop at least some semblance of an economy i.e. you get charge x-silver per tier of item you create/destroy (crafters cringing in fear everywhere lol). This makes it hard for new players to make money (sure they can ask for equipment, but that isn't going to get them 1 gold for that plot on the cliffside is it?). If you tick the "auto-decon" box that could avoid you the cost (call it training), but making anything that you intend to keep costs. That will either make people effectively give something away, or create at least some minimum cost of goods based on tier.

2. Grind. Sometimes I'm in the mood for grinding because I can see the light at the end of the tunnel, other times I'll just do something else instead. All MMORPGs suffer from this somewhere along the line, Istaria is no exception. I don't have a good solution for this, it is what it is.

Final words - that review cited below is from 2004!

[Tullamore]

Interesting post, with some good questions and points.

I'm not a returning player...I'm brand, spanking new: been playing Istaria now for about 2-3 weeks, and I've got my little hatchling up to Adventure 17 and Crafting 13.

So...why did *I* start playing Istaria? For years, I'd played another MMMORPGXYZABC - whatever the heck they're called - we'll call it "Forever Places"....it was absolutely free, and had a lot going for it, including a fairly large player base, and it was a lot of fun. But, despite rules that seemed to promote role-play, that element was totally missing in the game; there were no real differences between the various races, and conversations in the (very) active chat channels sounded no different than conversations in real life, including discussion about politics, religion, and all the problems people were having in their own lives. Well, if I wanted *that* why should I be in a game, at all?

There was also the continual "war" between the PvP crowd and those who just wanted to play a game without having to worry about being attacked by some twerp...and, this included the owner/creator of the game actively egging on the scammers and assassins that wandered through his world.

Eventually, despite the fact that I'd put a LOT of time and effort into building my character up to fairly high-levels, I got tired of the **llshi** and simply left...and, cast about the 'net for something else.

I found Istaria, and explored the forums...immediately saw that it had been very active a few years ago, but wasn't all that active today (there are a LOT of threads where the last comment was several years ago). It was obvious that this game had a smaller player-base; and, most of those appeared to have been here forever. There wasn't a lot of new-player information (there used to be, it seems, but much of it can't be accessed, for a variety of reasons)...but, what there was sounded intriguing.

I liked the restrictions on classes; the "other" game had no such restrictions, and I found that unrealistic. I liked the magic-system here; a mage *should* be a feared opponent, and, in the other game, mages were nearly useless. I was very impressed with the character generation area, and the incredible number of options.

Finally, to the game itself. The back-story and beginning training is fantastic; explains a bit about the game and the world history while immediately immersing a new player into a how-to. Yes, there's a LOT of information, but, it's presented in an easily understood format with enough "fluff" (role-playing and story) to make it all interesting.

Once in New Trismus, I quickly discovered that, while there may not be as many players in Istaria as there was in the other game, they're every bit as helpful...probably more so, in fact. As soon as my bright-green little hatchling galumphed into New Trismus, I was greeted by a VERY large dragon (don't recall the name...I was a bit overwhelmed by it all!) who patiently explained how to use the chat channels and suggested I open the Dragon and New Player channels. I've since asked several questions, in both channels, and gotten quick responses, every time.

I've done a bit of exploring, and, yes, there are places where it seems I'm the only player roaming around...to me, that simply fits into the story-line: we're the "gifted," and there are few of us. On the other hand, when I decided to explore Dralik, and found myself quivering on the landing pad (not sure what I was expecting, but, I thought I'd teleported into one of the Seven Levels of Hell...lol) I suddenly had 2 huge dragons trading with me: "For your hoard, little one..."

I've met several other folks...a couple close to my levels, and we've cooperated in completing our various quests...others, a bit further along have also given a lot of assistance and advice. For me, though, being one who loves the role-playing aspect of this game, the best was sitting on the outskirts of a conversation between an adult or ancient dragon and a few younger ones, which involved a story from the ancient dragon's "childhood," and connected her "history" with the history of the game...it had obviously taken quite a bit of time to work out, and, that level of interest in role-playing immediately attracted my attention.

I'd definitely recommend Istaria to anyone who asked...yes, there are short-comings, but, there are in any game. I've only been here for a short amount of time, but, I know I'll be playing Istaria for a very long time...because it's a helluva lot of fun!

Tullamore

[Teto Frum]

I'm probably the wrong person to weigh in here because the game itself is probably the last reason I am still here. Some days Istaria is a game to me, some days it is a blank RP canvass, some days it is nothing more than chat room where I just visit with friends.

Why should a new player come to Istaria? they should come to Istaria if they enjoy making friends, enjoy accomplishing things as a group, enjoy laid back game play with a mature helpful population.

They shouldn't come if little bugs bother them, if they are in a hurry, if they giggle at outdated graphics or if they want led around by the nose like most current games provide.

MMOs have become nothing more than a series of connect the dots pigeon holing your movements. Istaria allows freedom( less now than before) to go as you please at your own peril. That is the games true hidden gem...its freedom of movement and action.

[Zrenree]

go kill stuff, acquire coin, pay someone else to craft yer stuff.

[LOVWYRM]

This Teto-
very well spoken.