[Closed] Confectioner resource prices

[Holth]

Not sure if this was an intended change or a bug .... the prices for the bought confectioner resources have been raised by 4 times what they used to be.

Thaalia of Order

[AmonGwareth]

These haven't been changed in quite a long time so I am unsure why you are seeing higher prices.

[Holth]

Amon,

Yesterday I bought cinnamon bark and cumin seeds from Estelwen in Feladan, spent over 600 silvers before I realized the prices were off. Cinnamon bark used to be 50 coppers per, cumin seeds 100 coppers per. Now on Order it is 200 coppers for cinnamon bark and cumin seeds are 400 coppers each. All the other bought resources are 4 times what I have noted for prices as well.

I keep the tavern in Defender's Gate stocked weekly and make food on a regular basis so I buy resources regularly. This is my biweekly purchase so sometime in the last few weeks the prices were changed. I haven't purchased formulas from the confectioner trainer in years so I don't know if those prices are off too.

Just checked Fillet and Julie and their prices are off as well.

Thaalia of Order

[AmonGwareth]

The markup on the NPCs does appear to now be in line with the other NPCs in the world. So they are now offering the items at the correct rate. I am unsure exactly when the change was made. I am sorry it was left off any release notes.

[Holth]

Amon,

Respectfully, could I please get you to look at this again?

Having to raise prices on food is not going to make players happy. Having to spend a gold or more on bought resources every month is not going to make me happy. Most months I'm lucky to make 500 silvers selling food.

Having half or more of the confectioner recipes in our book never being used is truely a waste.

Maybe I'll just take down the whole confectioner plot and make and sell ambrosia. It costs me nothing to make. And that's one less plot subscription I'll have to pay for.

Thaalia of Order

[Sigi]

The markup on the NPCs does appear to now be in line with the other NPCs in the world. So they are now offering the items at the correct rate. I am unsure exactly when the change was made. I am sorry it was left off any release notes.

I'm curious.
Which other NPCs sell ingredients?
Which other school has such (in my eyes ridiculous) low pricing at the pawnbroker for made items?

In short they are now in line with wich particular NPC at what items?

[Chasing]

Lets do the math on some of these prices.

Example 1

Cinnamon Bark - 200c per

Ground Cinnamon needs 2 Cinnamon Bark

Dessert Applesauce needs 3 Ground Cinnamon

thats (200x2)x3 = 1.2s to make one Dessert: Applesauce, therefore to even make any profit out of it you need to sell for over 1.2s. This is a tier 2 dish.

There are 18 dishes that use Cinnamon Bark. All are T2 or higher.

Example 2

Cumin Seeds - 400c per

Ground Cumin needs 2 Cumin Seeds

Main: Chicken Tagine needs 1 Ground Cumin

thats (400x2)x1 = 800c, therefore to make one Main: Chicken Tagine to make any profit it needs to be above 800c. Not really an issue here as the 2 dishes that use Cumin Seeds are both T6 dishes.

[awdz]

I believe that in the past, prices of ingredients sold by the trainers were lowered specifically because the cost for confectioners to make food with them was prohibitive. If you want to raise the prices for raw components so much, can you please make them gatherable so that we have an affordable option?

What other class has to actually purchase their raw resources? Scholars buy travel tokens - and that is for only one very specialized type of formula. The equivalent might be to sell essence of blight or the soul fragments for ambrosia, not ingredients used in a plethora of formulas. I can think of no other formulas that require purchasing of materials needed to use them.

Edit: I thought of one more, keys. However, by comparison to the number of ingredients & processing time required for confectioner, the key patterns are cheap. I guess I would not mind paying equivalent prices for confectioner ingredients if the formulas were vastly simplified too - but I like variety, so I'd prefer to have the current ingredients available more cheaply.

[Andaras]

Good catch Holth. This is exactly why I never make those
foods. I see it as just a tool to gouge the Confectioners of any
pittance of profit for their efforts.

Confectioners can sink GOLD pieces into these resources, and for
some obscure reason the Empire sees the finished foods as cheap
McDonald's Crap. So what does that leave us with? Unsellable
exorbitantly priced foods returned to vaults that cannot be sold to
Pawnbrokers to recoup lost coin - Sounds broken to me.
(See Chasing's excellent example of the math)

I second Awdz statement - Make all the resources gatherable
and alter the processing formulae accordingly.

Andaras

[awdz]

Let's look at a different math and consider what it implies for pricing:

Keys at opt
2 clay chunk + 1 pattern = 1 mold
2 ore = 1 bar
1 mold + 2 bar = 1 key
so, it takes 7 unprocessed components to make 1 key
assuming all the unprocessed components cost the same (all patterns cost 375 cp regardless of tier), keys have a manufacturing cost of 2.625 sp

Apple cobbler (Jman Adv Dessert) at opt
2 apple = 1 sliced apple
2 cinnamon bark = 1 ground cinnamon
2 milk = 1 butter
2 sugar cane = 1 sugar
2 wheat = 1 wheat flour
1 milk + 1 egg + 1 wheat flour = 1 wheat dough
3 sliced apple + 1 ground cinnamon + 1 butter + 1 sugar + 3 wheat dough = 1 cobbler
so, it takes 24 unprocessed components to make 1 cobbler
assuming all the unprocessed components cost the same (cinnamon now costs 200 cp), cobbler has a manufacturing cost of 4.800 sp

currently cobbler is typically sold on order for 430 cp - less than one-tenth the calculated manufacturing cost
platinum keys would be sold for 1 sp with no demand, about two-fifths of the calculated manufacturing cost

let's take a look at another
Chocolate Cheesecake (Expert Adv Dessert) at opt
(2 milk = 1 cream) + (2 sugar cane = 1 sugar) + 1 milk = 1 heavy cream
2 milk = 1 cream cheese
2 wheat = 1 wheat flour
2 cinnamon bark = 1 ground cinnamon
(2 cocoa bean = 1 cocoa nib) + 2(2 sugar cane = 1 sugar) + 1 milk = 1 chocolate
(2 vanilla bean = 1 sliced vanilla bean) + 1 water = 1 vanilla

1 heavy cream + 2 cream cheese + 2 wheat flour + 1 ground cinnamon + 3 chocolate + 1 vanilla = 1 chocolate cheesecake

so, it takes 39 unprocessed components to make 1 chocolate cheesecake
assuming all the non-processed components cost the same (average 200 cp), chocolate cheesecake has a manufacturing cost of 7.800 sp
currently chocolate cheesecake is typically sold on order for 875 cp - about one-ninth the calculated manufacturing cost

by contrast, adamantium keys have a manufacturing cost of 2.625 sp and typically sell for 5 sp or more, about double the calculated manufacturing cost

the new pricing for unprocessed ingredients leads me to these conclusions:
1. obviously foods are vastly underpriced in the general marketplace.
2. pawnbrokers should be giving commensurate rewards for food turned in, given all the effort it takes (do pb even cover the out-of-pocket coin now, let alone effort pay?).
3. and since they're coin-heavy anyway, adventurers will just have to fork over a ton more coin to get rid of dps

in reality, i think food prices have been a little low, but not *that* low. assuming 10 sp to get rid of the highest tier (VI) dp and two full four-course meals to accomplish that, each portion should run about 1.25 sp (roughly, that's 200 cp/portion/tier). 1.25 sp/39 unprocessed ingredients is about 32 cp/ingredient.

*that* is why i think 200+ cp/ingredient purchased is way too high.

[LOVWYRM]

keep the cooks satisfied!
Without them we would be lost,

And think about how to motivate our alchies-if there are any left (on Order)-they know how to hide

[AmonGwareth]

Fair enough. I have some changes I'm making to various things with Confectioner for the next patch. I'll lower the price per item by 50%. Should go well along with the recycle time change, DP reduction increase, and resource requirement change in intermediate products.

[velveeta]

thanx amon, you totally rule!

[Unicorn's Lady]

Fair enough. I have some changes I'm making to various things with Confectioner for the next patch. I'll lower the price per item by 50%. Should go well along with the recycle time change, DP reduction increase, and resource requirement change in intermediate products.

Thank you Amon!!!!

I'll be watching for that patch since almost all of my food price is the cost of the ingredients. (I've kept to the price set Awdz suggested for me several years ago) It will be so nice to be able to lower prices.


Nellie Lovett
The mad cook of Carmo on Order

[awdz]

Fair enough. I have some changes I'm making to various things with Confectioner for the next patch. I'll lower the price per item by 50%. Should go well along with the recycle time change, DP reduction increase, and resource requirement change in intermediate products.

oooh, thank you for all of those improvements! :-)

[Knossos]

Depending on the combined effect of the forthcoming changes, the resulting cost to make some recipes might still be higher than current food selling prices. I am sure the Confectioners who routinely stock the Taverns will be minding costs versus selling prices, pending and after the next patch to live.

Knossos