A touch of dragon semantics?

[Lyeekha]

Am I right in thinking that 'naka-duskael' (the word for bipeds) literally means 'without scales', the scaleless ones?

In which case, are we to assume that the Sslik (clearly scaled) got bundled under the same sweeping umbrella as all the other bipeds, with that slight cultural arrogance of the early Age of Dragons? Or is it Scaleless in the sense of not having Scales like dragons have Scales, merely scales. If that makes sense!

Also, how does the phrase split up? Is 'duskael' the word for scales, because it seems to be missing from my dictionary. (I was distracted by 'meranne' for a moment, but that's scale as in 'to ascend'.) Similarly, does 'naka' mean 'without'?

And just quickly, on pronounciation - I seem to remember the 'ae' sounds like a hard 'a', making it "dusk-AL" rather than "duskALE", is that correct?

I know it's all mostly theory rather than hard fact anyway, but I like to hear thoughts.

[GlindorOcculus]

Scaleless in the sense of not having Scales like dragons have Scales, merely scales. If that makes sense!

It's meant as "without scales" like a dragon, but would also be an insult to a dragon. Being "without scales" is seen as inferior to being a scaled one (dragon).

That's my take on it.

[Sereamha]

There has been a little bit of a debate regarding the use of naka and sslik. Personally, I think it is incorrect for the dragons to term Sslik as such, and hence my dragons simply call all 'naka' bipeds ^^

As for how you pronounce it....I really have no idea @_@

Also, has some dragons are rped to have no scales, the term naka-duskael would apply to them too....whether or not they approve XD

[meepsa]

Naka Duskael -> without scales

if I remember correctly lore-wise dragons actually DON'T (or refrain from) putting Ssliks AND Fiends (explore dralk, you'll find a fiend ) in this catagory, as they have scales, they are also the biped races that dragons tend to be closer to than any of the other living races.

then again, my knowledge of istarian lore could have downed a bit in the past few weeks, haven't been all that active

[AguaRush]

ssilks are in no known way related to dragons in lore. i guess when i think ssilks though i might be incorrect i picture them more with neut skin. more leathery then scaled so i would define them as unscaled
and i think fiends are just blue fleshed not scaled but i could also be incorrect
though
i think naka is also unscaled AND two legged. so ssilks would fall into the 2 legged cataegory (biped)
so there for dragons call them naka or naka duskael

[Raptress]

Every place I have seen "naka-duskael" defined, it has been "unscaled." While this is technically an incorrect term to refer to a sslik by, I'm sure that NPC dragons will call them that because sslik are just another of the biped races. I know this is a game technicality, but I tend to assume that haughty dragons will still call sslik "naka-duskaels"; it is a derogatory term after all. At least, it has become one on the RP shard. Can't recall if it is officially an insult, but I wouldn't doubt it. If the sslik tries to argue, the dragon probably won't listen. "Don't care; you're all the same to me! "

I don't know how it's pronounced; I've never seen a key for it. I took Latin in high school, so to me "ae" really translates as an "eye" (the word) sound. Almost everyone I know pronounces "ae" as a long A sound though. Despite what I just said about Latin, "duskael" ends up being "du-scale" to me because.. well, "scales." :P

I assume that "naka" is "without" and "duskael" is "scales," or at least that they are something along those lines. Could be that "naka" means "not" and "duskael" means "scaled"; we really don't know. "Naka-duskael" is the only official tidbit of dragon language that we have, as far as I'm aware.

When you speak of a dictionary, I can only imagine you're talking about the Erdoten k'Eilerten language. This language is player lore, and is not part of Istaria's official lore. The language that "naka-duskael" comes from is, in fact, a totally different tongue.

Because only one word of it is ever spoken by anyone anywhere in-game, I go with this idea: the real language of the dragons is oldschool. Many of the really old Ancients probably speak it in the presence of other older dragons. After the rise of the Withered Aegis, after dragon society has been fractured and forced by necessity to mingle with the two-legged races, dragon culture as a whole has weakened, and the ancient dragon tongue has been a casualty. Erdoten k'Eilerten has, for the most part, taken its place amongst the more modern crop of dragons.

That's all just me trying to make sense of the lore that we're presented with and reconcile it with what happens in RP on Order. If a dev steps in and says that we can assume that dragons in Chiconis and Dralk all speak to each other in Draconic, then obviously that trumps this.

[venom-dragon7799]

saph catagorizes bipeds without scales as naka-duskeals, and sslik as ber-duskeals, ber meaning false.

[Lyeekha]

Personally, I like the idea of Without-Scales referring to the superior Scales of the Dragons, that give them extra defence (or the ability to equip them, I suppose). It's the only in-game unique scale-related separating factor.

I have to say though, it hadn't occurred to me to think of 'naka-duskael as being a different languange to the draconic language created by players. I assumed that Erdoten k'Eilerten had been extrapolated from the only in-game tidbit we had. It feels odd to separate them. Maybe that's just me. Still, if separate, then Erdoten k'Eilerten is missing a word for scales...

Speaking of, I found a pronounciation key. It says the 'ae' word part would be pronounced like the A in jAm, making it dusk-Al. I like that.

I think, after considering, those are my preferred takes on the matter, though of course if it's at odds with any official Lore or porular RP Lore then that may change for ease of interaction, etc ect.

Do Fiends have scales, Meepsa? I thought it was just blue skin!
Ooh, and it would be nice to clear up if naka is generaly taken as an insult by in-character bipeds. I love the phrase, but wouldn't want to be nasty.

[Raptress]

Do Fiends have scales, Meepsa? I thought it was just blue skin!

As far as I am aware, it is just skin. There may be some form of scales over their tails though, but that is purely just me speculating from the fact that fiend tails are textured in a manner unlike smooth skin.

Ooh, and it would be nice to clear up if naka is generaly taken as an insult by in-character bipeds. I love the phrase, but wouldn't want to be nasty.

Depends on who you ask, really. My nicer characters tend to avoid its use because there is the possibility of it being taken as an insult since the term is considered derogatory by some.

It makes sense for it to be insulting, as it's pretty much a dragon term for creatures that lack one of the more powerful features of a dragon. It can therefore be surmised that dragons think unscaled creatures are lesser beings and the term "naka-duskael" indicates as much.

Again though, it's probably going to depend on the character or what that character's player personally thinks of what exact meaning the term takes on.

[meepsa]

all this has sparked an idea to re-read most dragon related lore for me XD

and ok, I was wrong about the fiends, but seeing as naka-duskael is not exactly the nicest of things to say, I just figured that they didn't class them as that aswell:
"The Lunus also share a dislike for the Humans with the Fiends, and their mutual dislike has fostered cooperation between them. "
taken from the basic lore found on the home page

[Darziak]

"The Lunus also share a dislike for the Humans with the Fiends, and their mutual dislike has fostered cooperation between them. "

One the the two races must've said this phrase at one point "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"

[Frith-Rae]

Naka Duskael -> without scales

if I remember correctly lore-wise dragons actually DON'T (or refrain from) putting Ssliks AND Fiends (explore dralk, you'll find a fiend ) in this catagory, as they have scales, they are also the biped races that dragons tend to be closer to than any of the other living races.

I think it really depends on the dragon, and how they are intending it.

For example, my dragon certainly doesn't hate, nor really have specific animosity, towards non-dragons in general. She considers them inferior (of course! *snorts), but teachable. She's not Helian, but she's not Lunus either (she would never think they could be taught to the point that they are equals, but they are certainly useful and can be friends the way a pet is your friend..).

She rarely uses the term naka-duskeal in its full spelling, but if she says "naka" its usually meant as an insult. As in, "If you do that, you are no better than a naka!" Usually she's comparing childish or stupid dragon behavior to naka behavior, and thereby meaning it as a bonk on the head to the dragon .

As for the Eilerten Edoten. Yes, that is player *imported*. It wasn't really invented by us (members of Keir Chet K'Eilerten who brought it over to the game and started using it first in daily RP and conversations), but an early member found it and posted up on our website, and as a guild of all dragons only, we thought it woudl be cool to incorporate it into our RP.

Needless to say those of us who are left *chirp* are still amazed and awed and so blessed that it is still in use to this day! Makes me full of warm fuzzies...

However, no, Naka-duskeal did not come from that language, and the game has provided no real other source of the dragon language. So its merely player imported and player continued (one of the awesome things about this community!).

And yea, the Eilerten Erdoten does lack much in teh way of development, even for everyday terms you would think would be in there. We took what we found, and just use what is available. There was, at one point in time, when the guild was active, an ongoing discussion (open to suggestions by everyone outside the guild as well) as we tried to use the langauge principles given to come up with new terms that were not covered (such as Grandfather/mother, Uncle/Aunt, and including the formal greeting of glit'sita, as well as other words now included in the language but were not there from the beginning) and we then came to consensus and added it into the "game's" version of the langauge.

Unfortunately, with the guild basically defunct (i'm pretty much it for the most part now a days, sometimes one or two other guildies drop in from time to time but *sigh*), there's no longer any central way to have such discussions and come to a consensus/vote to add such words in.

Also note that the pronunciation rules of Eilerten Erdoten aren't necessarily the pronunciation rules of the word "naka-duskeal". We've never been given a directive on that. In my head its "Dusk-ale" lol.

[Raptress]

For example, my dragon certainly doesn't hate, nor really have specific animosity, towards non-dragons in general. She considers them inferior (of course! *snorts), but teachable. She's not Helian, but she's not Lunus either (she would never think they could be taught to the point that they are equals, but they are certainly useful and can be friends the way a pet is your friend..).

Sounds Helian to me.. xP

[velveeta]

speaking as a naka, i always thought it meant two legs or biped........