Why I want to play Istaria but can't quite bring myself to do so...

[ubai]

I find myself visiting the Istaria forums every couple of months because I think that Istaria is one of the few games that really does offer something more than the "pull this lever and get a treat" paradigm that is so popular with more commercially successful games. I'd like to list the reasons I really like Istaria first, then I'll list what keeps me from coming back, and then I'll add a few suggestions that I would like to see. I'd be very curious to know if anyone agrees or disagrees with me and their reasons why!

First and foremost, Istaria is a game where the players can effect PERMANENT changes to the game world. That is huge! The Satyr and Dryad playable races are available because of world events, as are many structures and stories. There are very, very few MMOs out there that don't run on rails, and only Istaria (as far as I know) allows the kind of large scale changes that really make a player feel like they are part of a story whose outcome is not already set in stone.

Second is the crafting and the economy. I realize it is not perfect, but the dev team has tried to make a system where every player is not running around with a +14 battleSword of the rabid weasel and where crafting is an afterthought at best. Again, I know of few other games (EVE maybe) where this is the case. In Istaria, pure crafters are both viable and necessary to both the economy and the lore.

The Withered Aegis is another facet of this game that makes me want to come back. Again, the system needs work, but the idea of an enemy that takes over territory and attempts to hold it is far superior to theme parks full of static mobs and an "enemy" that doesn't actually pose a threat or even really interfere with you at all.

Plots, lairs and housing are another thing that really pulls me in. Again, Istaria has one of the best housing systems around, though a few isolated plots for those more inclined to solitude would be nice.

There are a lot of other things that make Istaria stand out from the rest, such as Dragons and the multi-class system, but these are the main things I really like and would love to see expanded upon. Now, here are the things that keep me from resubbing. None of them by themselves are deal breakers, but taken together they're just too much.

Lag, hitching, insta-pop and mobs that load while you're in the middle of them do not just break immersion, they can make the game more or less unplayable. I have had problems where the ground just stops and never loads at all. I have also been killed in an empty field while invisible wolves tore me to shreds.

Monsters that run through walls are a big barrier to making the Withered Aegis more of a threat and it destroys immersion and reduces the value of tactics in PvE. I seem to remember being told that this can't be fixed, but I really think it is essential that the client be updated so that mobs respect player made walls, otherwise the whole idea of player made defenses becomes pointless.

This may seem minor, but the lack of gravity and water really make the game feel less real. A flying dragon just isn't as cool if you know that you can't die (or even take damage) from falling. Ditto for water. Adding swimming and a breath meter to the game would literally open up tons of new possibilities for adventure and crafting alike.

Again, there are other minor issues. For instance, archers should not have infinite arrows, gnomes should move slower than giants, and plate armor should not look like a shiny leotard. :P However, none of this would really bother me much if the big stuff was out of the picture. Now I'd like to finish by suggesting a few things that I think would play to Istaria's strengths.

Obviously, more world events are needed, both long term and short term. Reclaiming areas from the Blight, destroying bastions of evil, unlocking new resource fields and permanently defeating iconic enemies makes Istaria feel more like a growing, changing world where the player is important. One of the nice things about the WA is you can introduce new enemies and kill them off without having to recycle them over and over. Having to defeat Grognarr the Unholy over and over again just reminds you that you're on a treadmill, but defeating Grognarr the Unholy knowing he is gone FOREVER makes you feel like you've done something worthwhile.

Use the WA as an army. In essence, make the game Player versus Dev. > If the WA is trying to take over Istaria, then do it! Stick Blight anchors in places where valuable resources are harvested and make the players destroy them. Make them suffer if they ignore the WA and they will feel that much more satisfied when they defeat an invasion or reclaim a town. Make crafters work together on devices and weapons to defend settlements and strategic locations, but make the devices vulnerable to attack so adventurers can defend them to retain the bonuses they provide. If you can, make walls and structures attackable so that the WA can destroy stuff players build, but make it so that the structures can be repaired by crafters. Making mobs "respect" walls and doors would make this whole thing even better because then crafters could construct physical defenses. One of my greatest MMO experiences was when the Devs took over a bunch of Ogres in Ultima Online and attacked a bunch of different towns. It was and is one of the my fondest gaming memories, even if I got very little sleep that night.

Add aerial monsters for Dragons to fight, and improve aerial combat in general. Someone suggested letting bipeds team up with dragons in the air and I think that is a great idea! Either let Dragons allow players to ride on their backs, or put in flying machines. Using the sky gives you a broader palette for new adventure and content without having to make a bunch of trees and rocks and buildings because it is air! Obviously, falling damage would be an important fix to make this work. Do the same thing with oceans, add content (and drowning) underwater! You could put ocean only resources (pearls?) and make underwater breathing potions and gnomish scuba gear. Heck, put some plots down there for Sealab fans.

One other minor suggestion would be to throw in dual wielding. I just love dual wielding for some reason, always have. Anyway, if anyone read this far, thanks! Like I said, I would be curious to know what you all think of these ideas. I wish Istaria well, because you really offer something different!

-Matt

[Shian]

Lag, hitching, insta-pop and mobs that load while you're in the middle of them do not just break immersion, they can make the game more or less unplayable. I have had problems where the ground just stops and never loads at all. I have also been killed in an empty field while invisible wolves tore me to shreds.

Picture is worth a thousand words. Istaria really is different. You adjust to it. You learn where the mobs are and to wait on a nearby hill so you can pull one of them. Running in a pile of mobs is foolish whether they are visible or not.

Monsters that run through walls are a big barrier to making the Withered Aegis more of a threat and it destroys immersion and reduces the value of tactics in PvE. I seem to remember being told that this can't be fixed, but I really think it is essential that the client be updated so that mobs respect player made walls, otherwise the whole idea of player made defenses becomes pointless.

Sorry, none of these are possible. The game is not 3-D. Nor are there objects in the world.
Yes, I know hear me out. The reason why mobs can walk through walls is that the client tells players where the mountains and things are, but as far as the game sees, it's just a flat world of nothing. This is the engine we are running on. To 'fix' something like this would be re-writing the entire engine and costs about as much as it would to make a new game. That's why we don't have falling damage.

Again, there are other minor issues. For instance, archers should not have infinite arrows, gnomes should move slower than giants, and plate armor should not look like a shiny leotard.

We already have enough problems with vault storage. Games where you have to carry around ammo is about as annoying as having to carry around 6 sets of food.
Gnomes should move slower? Hmm... glad I'm not a half giant that likes playing with gnome friends. Trying to get anywhere would be frustrating. For that matter, why punish those that chose gnome as a race by making them slower? That wasn't in the brochure.

The other suggestions are all dead horses.

[ubai]

"Picture is worth a thousand words. Istaria really is different. You adjust to it. You learn where the mobs are and to wait on a nearby hill so you can pull one of them. Running in a pile of mobs is foolish whether they are visible or not."

Hmm, I am not sure I agree with this philosophy. If something is obviously broken it should be fixed. I listed it as something that makes the game unplayable for me. I'm glad that you are still able to enjoy the game, but that doesn't make it any less broken.

"Sorry, none of these are possible. The game is not 3-D. Nor are there objects in the world. Yes, I know hear me out. The reason why mobs can walk through walls is that the client tells players where the mountains and things are, but as far as the game sees, it's just a flat world of nothing. This is the engine we are running on. To 'fix' something like this would be re-writing the entire engine and costs about as much as it would to make a new game. That's why we don't have falling damage."

Again, I am not sure this is correct. Even the oldest of 2D games like Nethack have walls you can't walk through. If the game world is represented by a 2d map, then the information is already there. Making the game "see" it might not be easy or trivial, but I know it can be done because it has been done in far simpler games than this, both 3D and 2D.

"We already have enough problems with vault storage. Games where you have to carry around ammo is about as annoying as having to carry around 6 sets of food."

Like I said, this is hardly a deal breaker. None the less, an archer that has infinite arrows plays the game very differently from an archer who has to choose their shots with care.

"Gnomes should move slower? Hmm... glad I'm not a half giant that likes playing with gnome friends. Trying to get anywhere would be frustrating. For that matter, why punish those that chose gnome as a race by making them slower? That wasn't in the brochure."

This was a bit of a joke, but I do find it odd that a three foot tall being can keep up with an eight foot tall being with no effort. It would be a real issue if this were a PvP game, luckily it isn't.

"The other suggestions are all dead horses."
I wasn't aware that these were dead horses. Good thing reading my post was 100% voluntary!

-Matt

[Takora Drakan]

"Picture is worth a thousand words. Istaria really is different. You adjust to it. You learn where the mobs are and to wait on a nearby hill so you can pull one of them. Running in a pile of mobs is foolish whether they are visible or not."

Hmm, I am not sure I agree with this philosophy. If something is obviously broken it should be fixed. I listed it as something that makes the game unplayable for me. I'm glad that you are still able to enjoy the game, but that doesn't make it any less broken.

The mob spawns are not broken, they are dynamic. If no player is in the region no mobs will spawn to save server resources. If a player goes to the region, the spawn slowly starts to kick in. You need to learn where the spawn regions are. Watch and observe is here the key.

[Ascalious]

you know the graphics is some of the best ive seen in a online game if anything id love bipeds to be able to ride on the dragons. i know this has been said plenty of times but i personally think it would bring a whole new game. On top of that i was reading the eragon books and what would people think about some sort bloodoath celebration like a series of quests (rop like) but different so it doesnt get pulled under the copyright law????

[Frith-Rae]

You would know *some* of those are deaad horses if you poke around a bit in this forum before you post. Honest,not meant to be a snarky comment!! But some things have been posted about as suggestions for years, and have years worth of dev comments to reiterate WHY it cant be done. (water, dynamic events, ariel combat, bipeds riding dragons, etc.). Heck at least one of those is addressed in the STICKY at the TOP of this forum...

You ARE right - just because something is broken doesnt mean we *should* haveto live with it. But unfortunately, with an old game with a very small dev team - IS limited in what they can fix. Some of what you are saying and problems you arehaving are absoulltey game breakers for many people. Unfortunately, fixing some of those things DOES require a new engine - or new client buit - from the ground up. It doesnt matter that the 1982 game Wizardry didnt have an issue with mobs going through walls (it didnt..) - it does NOT mean that every engine since is able to deal with it.

Devs have been usually pretty honest when it comes to things they aboslutely cannot fix or do anything about. (they solved it for the high level dungeon b ut honestly I dont remember how they solved it lol)

And anything that requires changes to the engine, as far as if it would require a mass overhaul (i.e. why we cant have furniture in the houses), just is not feasible at this juncture in the game.

But trust me when I say most of us know your pain and would love for that fact above to be not true .

This was a bit of a joke, but I do find it odd that a three foot tall being can keep up with an eight foot tall being with no effort. It would be a real issue if this were a PvP game, luckily it isn't.

Um - what pvp game do you play? I was unaware that ANY MMORPG in current existance had their different sized races run different speeds. Every single game I have experienced - WoW, Istaria, LOTR, EQII, DAOC, AoC, WarHammer, Spellborn - none of them have varying speeds for varying races. ALL their races - from gnome/goblin/hobbit to giant/dragon/wolf/human/orc/tauren etc. ALL run the exact same runspeed. Two legged or four. Default wise anyway (not counting run speed buffs/enhancements).

I mean in a PVP game it would be extremely unbalancing to have your giant run faster than your human and goblin because then - why would anyone be anything but a giant?

Just saying..in case this is your first go-around with anMMORPG - perhaps you were not aware of this (and perhaps other things). ((Like most games get rid of the idea of limited arrows because they learn players dont want to have only one class have to fool with such things as an expense or just to keep track of - I can think of several games that started with limited ammos that switched to unlimited just because it ended up being a pointless mechanic) .

[Dragonboy]

Lag, hitching, insta-pop and mobs that load while you're in the middle of them do not just break immersion, they can make the game more or less unplayable. I have had problems where the ground just stops and never loads at all. I have also been killed in an empty field while invisible wolves tore me to shreds.

Don’t walk with high speed, always with caution when entering a new area so that the dynamic spawn system can do it’s work.

Monsters that run through walls are a big barrier to making the Withered Aegis more of a threat and it destroys immersion and reduces the value of tactics in PvE. I seem to remember being told that this can't be fixed, but I really think it is essential that the client be updated so that mobs respect player made walls, otherwise the whole idea of player made defenses becomes pointless.

What kind of player made defenses? The walls that surround some community towns like Morning Light or Harro? If you stand on them and use range weapons the mob just runs away…

This may seem minor, but the lack of gravity and water really make the game feel less real. A flying dragon just isn't as cool if you know that you can't die (or even take damage) from falling. Ditto for water. Adding swimming and a breath meter to the game would literally open up tons of new possibilities for adventure and crafting alike.

Not sure what you know about dragons but they walk and fly and do not often fall out of the sky…
As for water/swimming and breath meter… The Breath Meter is ingame and I suggest walking to the surface quickly when you see it for at the moment it is a very good barrier to prevent bipeds from walking were they do not belong, like the dragon lair islands. All other places can be reached by walking or portalling. Why do you want to swim for 10 minutes to an island when you can use a portal?

Again, there are other minor issues. For instance, archers should not have infinite arrows, gnomes should move slower than giants, and plate armor should not look like a shiny leotard. :P However, none of this would really bother me much if the big stuff was out of the picture. Now I'd like to finish by suggesting a few things that I think would play to Istaria's strengths.

As a matter of fact I know many games that have unlimited arrows, as a matter of fact I dislike the fact that in for example the Gothic series I walk around with 2000 arrows of different payloads (regular/fire/ect.). I dislike the fact that dragons need speed tech on wings instead of all 4 legs, but this also is not fixed and I made peace with that, apart from the in the beginning ridiculous speed stats on the new T6 broken items (not sure if that is fixed) all bipeds and dragons tend to run equally fast, so that when working together all can reach a destination at the same time. I like it that way and it should stay that way.

Obviously, more world events are needed, both long term and short term. Reclaiming areas from the Blight, destroying bastions of evil, unlocking new resource fields and permanently defeating iconic enemies makes Istaria feel more like a growing, changing world where the player is important. One of the nice things about the WA is you can introduce new enemies and kill them off without having to recycle them over and over. Having to defeat Grognarr the Unholy over and over again just reminds you that you're on a treadmill, but defeating Grognarr the Unholy knowing he is gone FOREVER makes you feel like you've done something worthwhile.

With all due respect, but this is not even done in WoW and they have a huge dev team… 1 boss mob who is removed forever from the game after 1 group kills it? The idea is good, perhaps using a name generator you might re-use the mobs only with different names, but other then that welcome to MMO’s. The game genre which thrives on killing the same mob or chopping the same kind of tree which conveniently respawns after you are running low on them.

Use the WA as an army. In essence, make the game Player versus Dev. > If the WA is trying to take over Istaria, then do it! Stick Blight anchors in places where valuable resources are harvested and make the players destroy them. Make them suffer if they ignore the WA and they will feel that much more satisfied when they defeat an invasion or reclaim a town. Make crafters work together on devices and weapons to defend settlements and strategic locations, but make the devices vulnerable to attack so adventurers can defend them to retain the bonuses they provide. If you can, make walls and structures attackable so that the WA can destroy stuff players build, but make it so that the structures can be repaired by crafters. Making mobs "respect" walls and doors would make this whole thing even better because then crafters could construct physical defenses. One of my greatest MMO experiences was when the Devs took over a bunch of Ogres in Ultima Online and attacked a bunch of different towns. It was and is one of the my fondest gaming memories, even if I got very little sleep that night.

Nowadays the gamers numbers are spread thin… I believe it was but a few weeks or months ago that a Dev spawned mob roamed Bristugo for quite some time before it was taken down, good thing that the new portal system does not force people through Bristugo as portal hub anymore. Actually I am not sure that many players who log on at a regular basis would want to see large dev created attacks. Many have other things to worry about and see this game more as a relaxed game were everything is at a slower pace, only one step more relaxed and you are playing Second Life…
I agree with the idea up to a point, but you have to be careful when pushing something like this to live without consulting ALL players and not just the few that like to roam forums.

Add aerial monsters for Dragons to fight, and improve aerial combat in general. Someone suggested letting bipeds team up with dragons in the air and I think that is a great idea! Either let Dragons allow players to ride on their backs, or put in flying machines. Using the sky gives you a broader palette for new adventure and content without having to make a bunch of trees and rocks and buildings because it is air! Obviously, falling damage would be an important fix to make this work. Do the same thing with oceans, add content (and drowning) underwater! You could put ocean only resources (pearls?) and make underwater breathing potions and gnomish scuba gear. Heck, put some plots down there for Sealab fans.

Aerial combat also has something to do with the 2d server I believe so quite difficult to achive, wouldn’t mind seeing it however. Dragon riding… Well what can I say… That horse has been dead for soo long that the corpse has produced offspring and these have been beaten to pulp as well if you catch my drift. I personally do not care about it as long as something is done to prevent whining newbies from pestering adult and ancient dragons for carrying them on their backs.
As for the Gnomish Scuba Gear… That might actually be fun, however considering gnomish machines tend to break done from time to time so as long as it has a 1-5% chance of breaking down every 5 seconds the player is underwater it might be fun…

One other minor suggestion would be to throw in dual wielding. I just love dual wielding for some reason, always have.

In all single player games I just love dual wielding, every Dragon Age game I play I am dual wielding… So would like the option although I am not holding my breath.

Suggesting something is not bad, but I would like to suggest to you to use the search button about certain topics.
For example the Dragon riding thing when I search for Dragon Riding in only the suggestions forum I get 7 threads about either dragon riding or spells/potions for all races to fly.
In all threads you have pro and con players, but you will find that many of the forum roaming dragon players are either against or neutral.

Offtopic:
Shian... Love the picture.