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Thread: Its more work than you may think... :)

  1. #1

    Default Its more work than you may think... :)

    I read this today and while it comes from a WoW PR/dev response from the WoW forum - I found it to ring so true of all developers and artists I'm sure across games and across MMOS that I hope the knee jerk "zomg WoW HATE STUPID!" response will be put aside to give it a small read and realize that yes - it really is resource intensive to "just make this one small change!"

    (quoted from the official post but I made it more readable so you coiuld tell what was the Dev's response and what was the players-comment/question)

    All of these comments have been a bout the most recent patch, where the big-baddie of the expansion (Deathwing/Neltharion character) is finally in game to be defeated. Clearly, some players feel it isn't good enough.

    Perhaps Amon Et. al might want to use some of these quotes in their sigs - or even quote it back when someone goes to suggestions and wants to know "Why you can't just do this!"

    >>>>>>>quoted stuff>>>>>>>>italics are the player's questsions and the regular type is the official response. Bolded are statements I thought particularly important .

    The pre-Deathwing Neltharion model complete with body ruptures and metallic jaw/plates is just laugh-out-loud ridiculous.

    I know that this might be a bit tough to swallow for some, but the use of the current Deathwing model in that scene was a matter of efficiency. A ton of work went into 4.3, and we squeezed in as much as we could, but it didn't make sense to dedicate the huge resources it takes to create a custom model for that one cameo, and we were concerned that using a generic black dragon model wouldn't have the same immediate value of recognition.

    On that note, I should point out that creating custom models actually consumes substantial resources, so they're precious to us. Tyrande didn’t have her own model for seven years, Sylvanas didn’t have her own model for several years, etc. We'd love to have custom models for every character, for every scene at every point in the timeline, but the resources simply don't exist to make that happen. In the meantime, we hope that players can use a little bit of imagination and still enjoy the dungeons anyway, even if a given model isn't always a perfect reflection of the character.

    The resources don't exist?

    I didn't say they don't exist. They were just directed toward other efforts.

    For example, there's a lot of new item and environment art in this patch. There are new mounts, new armor sets, new weapons, new pets. Ultimately, while we would love to do everything, at the end of the day we always have to make choices about how and where the resources are spent.

    I know you have to be all "PR responsible" and stuff, but that's a pretty lame answer in my opinion. In fact, every time someone complains about something not being of top-notch quality, it always comes back to this answer.

    We always come back to that because we have x development resources which must accomplish y goals in z time. It's very common that there will be some give and take during the process. All of this is in service of trying to get the most out of the time we invest to create the best experience possible. That's incredibly important to us, and hopefully we've created some very worthwhile experiences not only in these instances, but all the other patch content too. Still, whether it's a reality of game development or not, I acknowledge that it's probably not a very satisfying answer when it seems that we've missed something that was important to you.

    What exactly are the people Blizzard has hired doing then? If all their efforts are resorted to weapons and mounts, instead of the prime focus of your latest patch, that's ridiculous. Unless you find the prime focus of the patch to be the weapons and mounts, then that's just sad.

    Our artists were busy creating new models for weapons, mounts, pets, new environments, among other things (including an entire future expansion which is currently in development). It's easy to make all those things seem unimportant, but we disagree - we want the stuff you pick up, wear and keep to look awesome whenever we can make that happen. These dungeons were an important part of 4.3 (I think the term 'prime focus' overstates the case a bit, though) and actually, a tremendous amount of effort went into making them not only fun and engaging, but also as lore-appropriate and visually authentic as possible. It's a little unfortunate that the majority of that effort is being completely overlooked.

    You couldn't have taken a random black dragon, increased it's size... Gave it more texture, etc? Heck, you could have taken the current model of Deathwing and modified that.

    All of those were possible courses of action, sure, though I suspect that using a different existing model would likely had the same result. Slight modifications to an existing model may not even have been noticed, given the light show going off in that scene. Also, as others have pointed out, he was already wearing the armor at that point. In the end, we're currently having a long discussion about a single model which appears for a few seconds, and is wreathed in gold lightning for much of that time.

    >>>END QUOTE>>>>

    So please, when you are over in suggestions and asking for what appear to be "simple" things like chairs, cloaks, permission-rule/coding changes, etc. Remember this..

    That "Even Blizzard" with its literally HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of employees working DIRECTLY on the assets of the game full time (not customer service, not quest writers, not Q&A, etc.). With an engine far newer and more capable than our own. With MILLIONS of dollars (over 10 million ongoing subscribers) at their disposal to work on what needs to be worked on - EVEN THEY CANT DO IT ALL!

    So when you look at our handful of game-creators, operating into extra hours in addition to whatever-their-full-time-job may be - keeping a small little game going to where we are having actual updates as oposed to just keeping the light on (as some dev companies of even bigger games are doing nothing but this!) - please remember their limited resources!

    I know we all complain - I certainly have been part of that at times - unsatisfied with what was chosen to be developed at XYZ times and wishing that ABC was worked on (or heck even possible..).

    I am still appreciated for all of our hard workers here at Istaria - for Amon and all the ones whose names I don't know - who don't post and who work behind the scenes.

    Cuz if the, possibly largest, gaming/MMO company int he world can't do it all - well heck I can't begrude our little team for the same thing . And this Blizz CS post just made me really stop and be reminded of that.
    Frith-Rae BridgeSol
    Great Elder of Keir Chet K'Eilerten
    Iea has returned.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Its more work than you may think... :)

    And nothing compares to actually trying game development out for yourself. I can now say that one can't truly fathom what's involved until they actually start looking into doing serious game development for themselves. It is almost too much for me at times.
    Avatar is of my character Akrion, snipped from Hrae's Hoard of Creatures by the excellent moss loving artist Nambroth. <3

  3. #3

    Default Re: Its more work than you may think... :)

    Nice find

    Funny how some people get bent out of shape over things and think that since it is important to them it must be important to the whole game.

    Other things the devs need to consider when spending their resources is which of the items being worked will benefit the most players. Armor, mounts, and weapons benefit more players then a few seconds of one character in a dungeon most players wont get to.

    Thanks for posting this..we all need a reality check once in a while
    Sounjah <Strata> of Order
    60 Carpenter - 45 Fletcher - 28 Blacksmith - 23 Outfitter 31 Ranger - 21 Druid - 21 Cleric - 21 Scout
    RedStorm <Strata> of Order Dragon Hatchling

  4. #4

    Default Re: Its more work than you may think... :)

    This is also a very good opportunity to express our genuine appreciation for what the much smaller team of developers with a lot smaller pool of resources have been able to do here at Istaria.

    I'm not an old old old vet like you guys, but I Have been here for awhile (I joined back a year or two before the infamous EI fiasco) and the sheer distance this game has gone in development terms is quite amazing, when you consider how small the crew working it is.

    They do quite well, given what they have to work with.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Its more work than you may think... :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Akrion View Post
    And nothing compares to actually trying game development out for yourself. I can now say that one can't truly fathom what's involved until they actually start looking into doing serious game development for themselves. It is almost too much for me at times.
    heck, doing some minor game development on something like BYOND has given me a greater appreciation for the people that do development, coding, artistry for far more complex systems a great deal.

    it's also always nice to login to Istaria and see the announcement when Amon gets into marketplace and answers so many of the questions being asked of him at once, its honestly part of the reason i continue playing Istaria, having the dev interaction is certainly important in my eyes, and its great to see it here.

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