Rant About RP.

[konikitty]

This will probably come out passionate and rude, especially if you like to do the very thing about which I am going to rant. So don't read this if you are easily offended, please. I'll try my very berry best to avoid cursing because I don't want to be banned from the forum.

I'll just start off and say I HATE when people twist their character to be something it literally cannot be. Within the constraints of the world in which we roleplay, that being Istaria, and its varied but set in stone lore, I hate when people create a character that cannot exist. I hate when a dragon decides its khutit form is going to be a teenage human chick with dragon horns and a tail, super duper kawaii, with scale panties. I hate when someone decides their dragon is going to embody the very elements and be constantly spewing lava and ash from every orifice. I hate when people make up cheap explanations as to why this happens - explanations which make no sense, such as that their character "spontaneously evolved" out of nowhere. I hate when people decide that their character is a breed of dragon that doesn't exist in Istaria, I hate when people decide that their character has X and Y and Z powers that don't exist in Istaria, and I hate when people mention things that DON'T EXIST IN ISTARIA, like Asia, and literally the word "Asian" when applied to things, like "Have you ever seen Asian lung dragons? They're so cool!" I hate when people come up with lame excuses for why this is possible, like that their character can magically travel through time and space to other worlds and dimensions. I hate when people bend the confines of a SET in STONE world to fit their stupid, disproportionate, impossible, and completely illogical character just because they want to. In private RP's, fine, do whatever you want - but DON'T bring that out to the public, and DON'T claim that your dragon can become a teenage human with dragon features, and DON'T claim that you're a super-powerful elemental "as strong as a raging Ancient" just because you decided your level 37 adult dragon randomly evolved into a Shadow Dragon/Demon/Lava Elemental/Obsidian Dragon at hatching BECAUSE THAT DOESN'T EXIST OR MAKE ANY SENSE.

Okay. Rant over. No names named. Just delete this if you really need to. I'm extremely irritated with this going on, and it happens so much that it makes me want to just go to Chaos and stop RPing, because the godmoding and blatant disregard for physics or laws of nature or, hmm, the fact that this ISN'T an anime world and it ISN'T Earth but it is LOGICAL like Earth and generally follows Earth-like chemical laws...

I just hate Mary Sue characters. I'm so full of rage and irritation right now, I'll probably edit or just delete this later, but I needed to get it off my chest how angry it makes me. I accept some bending of rules, but when you go so far as to claim to be ten times as powerful as you would otherwise be, and to be the "only female in your breed, so all the hot males are always chasing you" (BECAUSE THAT BREED DOESN'T EXIST AND YOU JUST MADE IT UP ON THE SPOT), and that breed happens to be a mix of ten different things that don't exist.... I need to stop now.

U MAD? YES I AM!

If you want your character to be powerful, you get to WORK FOR THAT, you get to WORK to get to level 100 and ascend to Ancienthood, you don't get to just DECIDE that you're extremely powerful because you are made of all the elements and are a super special secret breed that is a super special shadow-lava-demon dragon just because you typed those words. *rageface*

[Shian]

I agree with your post as far as how frustrating it is to deal with non-cannon dragons, but honestly there does need to be room for some creativity in regards to lore breaking stuff.

There's tons of creativity out there. Yes, some of it bugs me to no end as I don't believe in whatever trait this dragon is trying to convince me it has, but others I find okay. Others will find what I find okay not okay and so on forever till the end of time ultimately proving that no one person is ever correct or incorrect on what they can and can't do.

Some of the most interesting dragons I've RPed with had special powers and TBH, when you're on your 9th dragon, it's VERY hard to create a character that's within Istarian lore that isn't like your other 8 characters.

That level 33 character that didn't 'earn' anything? It's probably someone's 4th or 5th alt and thus their 4th or 5th time PAST level 100.

Actually that's not a bad RP idea right there and could be a great explanation to some of your woes- who is to say that at level 100, a dragon can be 'reborn' as a level 100, so that level 15 hatchling is 115 RP-wise and can get those super special powers.

Without them, you can only do so many in-lore story arcs before you have nothing else to do. Let's see,
Amnesia
Getting Lost or Running Away
Affair or Bad Mate Choice
Terrible Injury
Have Children

What am I missing? .... anyways the point is, there's like 6 or 7 plot devices that nearly every cannon dragon goes through and that in itself can be boring when you've rinsed and repeated 3 or 4 times and then you're all but forced to use that wacko non cannon stuff you hate so much to stay in the game or face being eternally bored.

[Steelclaw]

Whoa.

I can see how those kinds of characters can destroy immersion, though if it's not forbidden by the rules of conduct, it's probably not forbidden.

Take a step back and ask what you're trying to achieve. If you want to get something off your chest, great. If you want to constrain others' RP style to bounds that make sense to you, then not so great -- to do so may be a greater social offense than coming up with 'unrealistic' characters.

Try to remember that you're not obligated to acknowledge characters that annoy you. It's a lot easier to do and less painful than trying to change someone's impression of what's right and wrong on a subject that's mostly left open to interpretation.

[Dhalin]

I am guilty of the "From a different dimension", but I don't shove it down people's throats.

My dragon is a traditional AD&D dragon. He was a very powerful wizard (yes, dragon wizard, I know. rare as heck) who was messing around with Planar Portals one day and wound up in this weird world.

Suddenly, his magic didn't work anymore and he had to re-learn how magic flows in this world. He was able to figure SOME of it out, but not all.

Thankfully, though, AD&D Red Dragons were quite the physical powerhouses, even if they were mages. So, rather than to continue to be nearly powerless, he took the time to learn how to fight physically, and use whatever magic he could do as a backup. Hence why the character went down the path of the Lunus (especially considering the Lunus views of Naka to be closer to a D&D Red's views against anything non-dragon).

He's not evil (there's backstory there too), but yet he doesn't really like Naka much at all. And he doesn't openly advertise what he is, as he thinks it is better to just smile and nod while he tries to blend in this strange world, while seeking a way back to his own world.

He will likely never find it, but meh.

In the meantime, since he simply abhors Necromancy (again, more backstory there), he fights the Aegis.

Now is that such a bad character, that you (meaning konikitty) get "infuriated" by it?

[Raptress]

I sympathize, though it's more disheartening to me than rage-inducing. I've been really reluctant to enter Role-Play chat lately for the same reasons. It gets really tiresome always interacting with really out-there characters. I'm playing Istaria; I'd like to RP in something that at least resembles it.

Honestly, I don't mind the extra-planar characters so much as I mind the ones that, to use Dhalin's words, "shove it down peoples' throats." I don't think it's really logical that these beings that don't actually belong are so open about their origins, especially considering that Istarians are getting a lot of trouble from other extra-planar visitors. x3 This goes doubly for people playing things that are supposedly evil or demonic. Why would you ever just talk about that openly in public?

A lot of the time, my strategy ends up being that my character doesn't believe what the out-there characters claim to be. That sort of RP just gets old once I've done it ten times though.

[Thicklesip]

1. OP: my sympathies. Mary Sues, god-moders, and people who don't want to use the setting they're in are absolutely frustrating. They're always there anytime you don't have someone with ultimate power to enforce the setting/lore-- but when they're coupled with a very tiny pool of available RPers, they get really hard to avoid.

2. Shian: this is probably related to my unrelenting tendency to be subversively ordinary, but I've always considered a short list of tired out themes a double dog dare to breathe life back into them or else find something better to do. Granted, I'm also a weirdo who can't figure out how to make story arcs happen, and I find just RPing my characters under "normal" circumstances to be very entertaining as I'm fascinated by the mundane-- so maybe my opinion shouldn't be trusted. (But really, I'd write you a better story in a heartbeat. The things I can do with details!)

3. Steelclaw: I suspect the frustration here stems from the fact that if you want to RP Istaria, just Istaria, you basically have no options. Telling other players "no you can't RP that!" is both a jerk move and doesn't work. If some people do the "quietly out of the way" other-ness like Dhalin mentioned, it's not perfect but you can find opportunities to have fun anyways. Unfortunately, most people sail straight past "unobtrusive" into "flame jets, neon signs, and a screaming guitar solo as they ramp the truck over a shark tank". At which point your best option is to pull a Raptress and ICly have your character refuse to believe anything that strange, but when the bulk of your interactions end up being a "no, a demon-vampire-blightbeast-netherstalker-demigod wouldn't be parading around in public bragging about how many people they ate this month" it gets tiring.

4. Dhalin: I'm still mildly disappointed that you'd put the effort into making a non-Istaria character, but that's certainly not bad. I could see Thickle ICly interacting with that without any Raptressing (that's the term for it now, so says me) and/or me facepalming OOCly. By this server's standards, that's championship quality.

5. *Hands Raptress a "Well I'd enter Role-Play chat except I can't even spectate without going 'WHAAAAT?!'" badge.*

6. Full disclaimer: I've been considering ranting about this myself for... ages. Instead I've mostly been quietly bitter. Because I want to RP with people who at least ballpark the setting-- Dhalin-close or better-- AND I don't RP with people playing illogically openly-evil characters, sooooo that leaves... who? Apparently all the other people who are going to chime in with sympathy for the OP, although I don't know who they are yet and they don't know about me, so for now we are like so many ships passing in the dark.

7. LungTien, yes I know you keep offering and I appreciate it! You're totally excused from this discussion. You rock, go be adorable in New Tris as your hatchie or something.

10. And in case I didn't make it clear: I don't want to stop anybody's RP. You want to RP a werewolf-dragon with magical star powers? Go for it. The problem is that I want to RP this setting, and you don't. And RP tends to work best if we can stick to one general setting/universe-- unless you go for some kind of multi/crossover universe. Which you can do, but again, that's not Istaria. So RP whatever you want, but please do your RPing in the right setting.

[Raptress]

... without any Raptressing (that's the term for it now, so says me) ...

*is honored.* xD

[Vaz]

To me it's a foregone conclusion that most of the "RP" community in this game amounts to a demented circus. I stay out of it, happily limiting myself to the company of a specific few. I am elitist and clique-ish and I see no problem with that at all.

When I started roleplaying on Star Trek RPG forums in 2003, I was horrible. My main character epitomized "Mary Sue" in every way and my other characters were not much better. I clearly remember everything about that time: what I was thinking, how I felt, and how no one rejected or even really chastised me.

By 2005 I had improved enough that when I started roleplaying in an MMO for the first time, I had no desire to play a character that wasn't totally normal and lore-abiding. This was a miracle. I have no idea how it happened despite the aforementioned clarity of my memory of this stuff. I guess I just matured naturally. I realized at some point, too, that the Star Trek RPG forums I had frequented had relatively low standards: all of them were fundamentally flawed in their separation, or lack thereof, between certain elements of IC and OOC (for example, character rank and player "rank"/responsibilities were almost always tied together).

I detest the RP I did in my early days and resent the fact that no one had the generosity to try to correct my antics. I learned nothing from the Star Trek roleplayers by participating with them. It was only when I stopped actively roleplaying with them and retreated to more of an observational and administrative position that I began to improve.

In my mind every concept has a value. Like a number, but not one I could solidify into a written number. The sum of a person's skills in a particular endeavor is a value. Values, necessarily, can be compared against each other. There is no way in my mind that one person's roleplay cannot be superior to others' and, at the same time, inferior to...other-others'. There is no way I cannot acknowledge that my RP is pretty high on the ladder and that there are few in Istaria whose RP is better.

Why all the self-centered rambling, Xoshara? Simply because I thought it might be somewhat worthwhile to share a potentially unusual perspective on this topic. To admit what a terrible roleplayer I used to be and at the same time point out that that doesn't make me sympathetic to people who think it's a brilliant idea to play a half-dragon half-Saris character with feathery wings (in other words: "mighty dragon!" + "kawaii catgirl!" + ...random bird? angel?). Or that it's a brilliant idea to name their hatchling dragon Ragedog Miller (I made up that name--there are real character names in the current community that are actually much more ridiculous).

[Romirez]

10. And in case I didn't make it clear: I don't want to stop anybody's RP. You want to RP a werewolf-dragon with magical star powers? Go for it. The problem is that I want to RP this setting, and you don't. And RP tends to work best if we can stick to one general setting/universe-- unless you go for some kind of multi/crossover universe. Which you can do, but again, that's not Istaria. So RP whatever you want, but please do your RPing in the right setting.

so....


besides the fact that you skipped 8 and 9?

[LungTien Temeraire]

Konikitty, I understand your frustration, when characters don't totally fit with Istaria's existing lore. But this lore isn't much detailed and deep, so some people get a bit out of its existing lines. While it doesn't mean they can do space winged hamsters, stuff like that, don't forget that you don't have to acknowledge these characters in RP, and you aren't forced to have your character interact with them.

Now, if a character's appearance or background is a bit too 'big', we can still try and start a talk with the related player, and keeping a soft, polite and respectful tone. Once, I did that with a player wanting to RP no less than a god, another time, a player was plannning to have his character come from a unknown society of millions of dragons. I talked with them softly and convinced them to change these parts in a more proper way, and it went well. Not everyone perfectly knows what is RP, including me at the beginning, but with friendly help and advices they can learn and become nice RPers.

I was there when some ICly talked about asian lungs, and I though they may not know everything of RP. They still can be softly greeted and then, told that 'lung' isn't a known word in Istaria, not more than everything about Asia. My ancient is called LungTien, but I consider it as a name, away from usual definitions and translations. So, Konikitty, when it happens, take a deep breath and try solving the matter softly, or just let it be and don't acknowledge ICly the related characters, without disrespecting the player(s) OoCly.

Nobody's ideas and views can please everyone, in RP like in everything else, and ones may not share one another's idea and view of Istaria. As I said before, tolerance is the key.

[LungTien Temeraire]

I understand you too, Raptress, like everyone, you have the right to not acknowledge some characters not fitting with your views, and to enter public or private RP as you want. But from what I know, some characters with which you interact with yours aren't 100% istarian neither, having furry manes, mammalian ears,...). Don't get me wrong, I am fine with it, and will be as long as people with or with 'not 100%' istarian characters tolerate others in this situation, whether they want to interact ICly or not.

After, these differences don't allow godmoding, and I agree with the idea they shouldn't be so much open with their origins.

[Raptress]

But from what I know, some characters with which you interact with yours aren't 100% istarian neither, having furry manes, mammalian ears,...).

I already said that I have a tolerance for things that push the bounds of the lore. There is a huge difference between the characters that I accept and the ones that I don't. That difference is usually in the fact that I still feel like I'm RPing in Istaria when I RP with the people that you are always so eager to point out do not conform exactly to the lore. Heck, you probably wouldn't even know that that character has those mammalian ears had you not seen art of that character, the player is so quiet about it.

Those characters are entrenched in Istaria, even if they may not follow it to the letter exactly. They are characters in the world. They talk about Istarian things. They live Istarian experiences. They do not go on and on about their history from the Plane of Awesome, where they were raised by a community of giant yaks.

To the issue of the RP Shard Rules coming up again: there's no point. There are players on the server that don't RP at all. There are entire public chat channels that are assumed OOC, and have been for years. In my opinion too, there is too much need for public OOC in this complicated game to try to make everyone take it private.

Also, telling people, even in the most polite of terms, to try out Chaos instead is also an almost guaranteed fire-starter, Valareos. It always has been.

[Valareos]

Also, telling people, even in the most polite of terms, to try out Chaos instead is also an almost guaranteed fire-starter, Valareos. It always has been.

Raptress. Are you telling me you would rather keep players that dont RP at all, or RP in ways that are disruptive on Order instead of transfering them to Chaos?

If so, then im afraid that complaining about the quality of RP is a moot point, as by trying to keep members on Order, you also are diluting the RP with the presence of these people

[Thicklesip]

Valareos: the problem is that if we kick all the characters that need Raptressing off the server, we're suddenly Blight-sized. Maybe smaller. Also as pointed out, the screaming and drama and suffering.

I think something should be done, but I think it should be inclusive rather than exclusive. (Because, frankly, less tears and firestorms and more people cheerfully opting in that way. Also more fun.) After my post last night I thought of some sort of lightly-moderated list, such as a wiki page, of characters who are lore-safe. Iseia proposed roleplay player stewards, to help provide guidance, which could also work (although I'm leery of the position being more demanding than it is rewarding). Getting the server to come up with some sort of code of standards is another good idea, although I don't know if making it CustServ-enforced is necessary. I wonder if anyone else has any good proposals.


Lung: I think you're misunderstanding what's meant by lore-following. The idea is that Istaria's lore doesn't and can't follow everything, so obviously we're going to be making stuff up at some points. However, what you make up shouldn't contradict what lore we DO have.

Totally made up example: The quartermaster in New Rachival tells you that he has two children.
Lore-ok: someone RPs that his kids are named Ganny and Hesi.
Lore-ok: someone's character went to school with his kids.
Lore-maybe: someone's character IS one of his kids.
Lore-NO: someone's character is his fourth child.
Lore-NO: someone's character killed his kids.
Lore-NO NO NO NO ABSOLUTELY NOT: someone's character killed his kids, him, and all of New Rachival.

People will take a more or less strict approach to this, but basically: if the lore spells it out (or heavily implies it), do not contradict it! If the lore is silent on the topic, it's fair game (within reason).

[Raptress]

Raptress. Are you telling me you would rather keep players that dont RP at all, or RP in ways that are disruptive on Order instead of transfering them to Chaos?

You're reading into my words what I did not mean when I said them. What I said was that such suggestions almost always lead to animosity rather than someone actually switching servers and being happy about it. We (meaning players on Order) have been over all of this far too many times before. Trying to self-police has about a 50/50 chance of blowing up in our faces, no matter how nice one tries to be. So a lot of us just choose to ignore and save ourselves the trouble these days, rather than get caught up in a situation that sours our mood to play the game at all.

That said, I don't honestly feel that it's my "right" to tell another player what server they can play on nor what they are allowed to RP. Their choices may disappoint me, but we as players are equal. I do not have power over others here. The only thing that I can do is offer guidance, but that's often stressful and stress is the last thing I'm looking for in a game.

[LungTien Temeraire]

I already said that I have a tolerance for things that push the bounds of the lore. There is a huge difference between the characters that I accept and the ones that I don't. That difference is usually in the fact that I still feel like I'm RPing in Istaria when I RP with the people that you are always so eager to point out do not conform exactly to the lore. Heck, you probably wouldn't even know that that character has those mammalian ears had you not seen art of that character, the player is so quiet about it.

I am fine with that, and well, I can say I barely know anything about the characters belonging to the players you are RPing with But I'm fine with this too. I still feel like in Istaria with these appearances, unless it goes too far.
What I am not fine with is when some of people not fully fitting to lore try and deny others the right to get a bit out of lore as well. It is when experienced players do nothing else than complain about or criticize 'unrealistic', 'bad', out-of-lore, RP characters, habits and styles. It is when they don't do anything to really try and help, like if just to chase the players out of the shard, and when some even mock others' RPs and all of this in public. It is when they just talk in public to disapprove names of new players without trying to help finding a better fitting one if needed, and without knowing if the new player plans to ever RP or not, and without the said new player having done anything wrong, and all of this in public channels and populated places through local channel. I was there when things like this happened, on Order shard.

Those characters are entrenched in Istaria, even if they may not follow it to the letter exactly. They are characters in the world. They talk about Istarian things. They live Istarian experiences. They do not go on and on about their history from the Plane of Awesome, where they were raised by a community of giant yaks.

I consider my own characters being entranched into Istaria too, as I consider the characters belonging to people I know and use to RP with in public as well as in private. Those who are godmodding, or who are coming from Earth or Coruscant,... are very few and I very rarely see such players. And if I meet some, I still try to discuss with them with respect and set things better, as they aren't necessarily OoC jerks. Tolerance and soft discussions can solve such matters when they happen.

[Mensar]

I think the fix here is that everyone needs to follow the well-established guidelines on character RP so they stop bothering the elitist RPers with their less-than-stellar performances.

.....................