Rant About RP.

[Valareos]

I'd accept to get under these rules yes, but the question is, how many others would do the same? is removing half if not 2/3 of the RPers' characters from the shard's RP due to not being under these rules, the good solution? or is it to show tolerance and just choose to interact or not, ICly, with other players' characters?

I think that serious rpers like you and others should take initiative to start educating others, get the idea of the rules and what is acceptable. the biggest part of the Rules is that it is self policing. Let these people know that their characters need to be within the realm of plausability. Yes, put it among yourselves to do what the Roleplay rules allow you to do.. Self regulate.

First step perhaps, is to set up a thread in the Order channel, get ideas for the community what the rules on the RP server should be. What is acceptable or not, and get some signatures to it from players ON that server. Then, take the document to the devs to request that it be made an official document supported by the community as an update to the Roleplay rules. As long as your policy includes what is already there, there should not be a problem. that document can clarify the servers position on "creative histories" or "Non-Lore information" to whatever the server as a whole feels is approprate.

Next step, self regulate. Do not be afraid, that if someone is constantly out of the spirit and intent of the rp server, send a ticket to the devs with the log to request they be transferred off. That is YOUR right, as a player on Order, and your responsibility to look after the quality of rp

[Raptress]

But from what I know, some characters with which you interact with yours aren't 100% istarian neither, having furry manes, mammalian ears,...).

I already said that I have a tolerance for things that push the bounds of the lore. There is a huge difference between the characters that I accept and the ones that I don't. That difference is usually in the fact that I still feel like I'm RPing in Istaria when I RP with the people that you are always so eager to point out do not conform exactly to the lore. Heck, you probably wouldn't even know that that character has those mammalian ears had you not seen art of that character, the player is so quiet about it.

Those characters are entrenched in Istaria, even if they may not follow it to the letter exactly. They are characters in the world. They talk about Istarian things. They live Istarian experiences. They do not go on and on about their history from the Plane of Awesome, where they were raised by a community of giant yaks.

To the issue of the RP Shard Rules coming up again: there's no point. There are players on the server that don't RP at all. There are entire public chat channels that are assumed OOC, and have been for years. In my opinion too, there is too much need for public OOC in this complicated game to try to make everyone take it private.

Also, telling people, even in the most polite of terms, to try out Chaos instead is also an almost guaranteed fire-starter, Valareos. It always has been.

[LungTien Temeraire]

I think that serious rpers like you and others should take initiative to start educating others, get the idea of the rules and what is acceptable. the biggest part of the Rules is that it is self policing. Let these people know that their characters need to be within the realm of plausability. Yes, put it among yourselves to do what the Roleplay rules allow you to do.. Self regulate.

First step perhaps, is to set up a thread in the Order channel, get ideas for the community what the rules on the RP server should be. What is acceptable or not, and get some signatures to it from players ON that server. Then, take the document to the devs to request that it be made an official document supported by the community as an update to the Roleplay rules. As long as your policy includes what is already there, there should not be a problem. that document can clarify the servers position on "creative histories" or "Non-Lore information" to whatever the server as a whole feels is approprate.

Next step, self regulate. Do not be afraid, that if someone is constantly out of the spirit and intent of the rp server, send a ticket to the devs with the log to request they be transferred off. That is YOUR right, as a player on Order, and your responsibility to look after the quality of rp

The issue is that istarian lore isn't detailed enough to have all of us totally following it to the letter, unless we'd have several characters without differences from one another. The other issue is that some players tend to assimilate their own ideas and views of RP and istarian lore to rules, which led, several times, to OoC conflicts.

As I said, many RPers here have more or less out of lore characters, and are RPing them for years, and they are accepted by most of the community. Trying to change this would have as much success, I think, than trying to make and old monkey learn something new.

[Valareos]

Also, telling people, even in the most polite of terms, to try out Chaos instead is also an almost guaranteed fire-starter, Valareos. It always has been.

Raptress. Are you telling me you would rather keep players that dont RP at all, or RP in ways that are disruptive on Order instead of transfering them to Chaos?

If so, then im afraid that complaining about the quality of RP is a moot point, as by trying to keep members on Order, you also are diluting the RP with the presence of these people

[LungTien Temeraire]

I already said that I have a tolerance for things that push the bounds of the lore. There is a huge difference between the characters that I accept and the ones that I don't. That difference is usually in the fact that I still feel like I'm RPing in Istaria when I RP with the people that you are always so eager to point out do not conform exactly to the lore. Heck, you probably wouldn't even know that that character has those mammalian ears had you not seen art of that character, the player is so quiet about it.

I am fine with that, and well, I can say I barely know anything about the characters belonging to the players you are RPing with But I'm fine with this too. I still feel like in Istaria with these appearances, unless it goes too far.
What I am not fine with is when some of people not fully fitting to lore try and deny others the right to get a bit out of lore as well. It is when experienced players do nothing else than complain about or criticize 'unrealistic', 'bad', out-of-lore, RP characters, habits and styles. It is when they don't do anything to really try and help, like if just to chase the players out of the shard, and when some even mock others' RPs and all of this in public. It is when they just talk in public to disapprove names of new players without trying to help finding a better fitting one if needed, and without knowing if the new player plans to ever RP or not, and without the said new player having done anything wrong, and all of this in public channels and populated places through local channel. I was there when things like this happened, on Order shard.

Those characters are entrenched in Istaria, even if they may not follow it to the letter exactly. They are characters in the world. They talk about Istarian things. They live Istarian experiences. They do not go on and on about their history from the Plane of Awesome, where they were raised by a community of giant yaks.

I consider my own characters being entranched into Istaria too, as I consider the characters belonging to people I know and use to RP with in public as well as in private. Those who are godmodding, or who are coming from Earth or Coruscant,... are very few and I very rarely see such players. And if I meet some, I still try to discuss with them with respect and set things better, as they aren't necessarily OoC jerks. Tolerance and soft discussions can solve such matters when they happen.

[Thicklesip]

Valareos: the problem is that if we kick all the characters that need Raptressing off the server, we're suddenly Blight-sized. Maybe smaller. Also as pointed out, the screaming and drama and suffering.

I think something should be done, but I think it should be inclusive rather than exclusive. (Because, frankly, less tears and firestorms and more people cheerfully opting in that way. Also more fun.) After my post last night I thought of some sort of lightly-moderated list, such as a wiki page, of characters who are lore-safe. Iseia proposed roleplay player stewards, to help provide guidance, which could also work (although I'm leery of the position being more demanding than it is rewarding). Getting the server to come up with some sort of code of standards is another good idea, although I don't know if making it CustServ-enforced is necessary. I wonder if anyone else has any good proposals.


Lung: I think you're misunderstanding what's meant by lore-following. The idea is that Istaria's lore doesn't and can't follow everything, so obviously we're going to be making stuff up at some points. However, what you make up shouldn't contradict what lore we DO have.

Totally made up example: The quartermaster in New Rachival tells you that he has two children.
Lore-ok: someone RPs that his kids are named Ganny and Hesi.
Lore-ok: someone's character went to school with his kids.
Lore-maybe: someone's character IS one of his kids.
Lore-NO: someone's character is his fourth child.
Lore-NO: someone's character killed his kids.
Lore-NO NO NO NO ABSOLUTELY NOT: someone's character killed his kids, him, and all of New Rachival.

People will take a more or less strict approach to this, but basically: if the lore spells it out (or heavily implies it), do not contradict it! If the lore is silent on the topic, it's fair game (within reason).

[Raptress]

Raptress. Are you telling me you would rather keep players that dont RP at all, or RP in ways that are disruptive on Order instead of transfering them to Chaos?

You're reading into my words what I did not mean when I said them. What I said was that such suggestions almost always lead to animosity rather than someone actually switching servers and being happy about it. We (meaning players on Order) have been over all of this far too many times before. Trying to self-police has about a 50/50 chance of blowing up in our faces, no matter how nice one tries to be. So a lot of us just choose to ignore and save ourselves the trouble these days, rather than get caught up in a situation that sours our mood to play the game at all.

That said, I don't honestly feel that it's my "right" to tell another player what server they can play on nor what they are allowed to RP. Their choices may disappoint me, but we as players are equal. I do not have power over others here. The only thing that I can do is offer guidance, but that's often stressful and stress is the last thing I'm looking for in a game.

[Ulkjen]

Honestly, I do not personally mind 'star dragons' as you can call them. Dragons from other worlds. So long as they are bound within this worlds rules. After all, aren't the withered aegis -from another world themselves-? Another plane of existence. Same with the dragons. They are from another plane of existence themselves. There is a lot of in game lore that shows that, well, dimensional travel is possible. Not easy mind you but possible. Just thought i should bring this up. Id think someone from norrath (so long as dimensional travel is in norraths lore too). Same with warcraft. Mind you, i wouldn't -like- seeing a player RP a tauren in istaria. But wouldn't it still be possible, given the lore?

[LungTien Temeraire]

Thicklesip, I am not saying to go directly against the lore, no. I just see as a whole how other characters look like, what is their background, and ponder if ones is too much away from this middle-line. When I see experienced RPers accepting a character and his story, I tend to do the same with others characters of this sort, looking more or less like the said charater, unless it goes too far away.

[Valareos]

How about petitioning the devs to create a purchasable emblam that gives the title of Lorekeeper or some such? In the description, it can be stated that it is worn by dragons whose RP conforms to Istarian Lore. Those who wish to RP purely in Istarian Lore wears one

I think everyone already is in agreeance that where the lore is lacking, and details are not such that can cause conflicts with others details, then it is well within rights.

[Akrion]

I feel that I must point out that things were perfectly fine a few years ago in 2008/2009 and the rules about IC/OOC chat, etc. were exactly the same as they are now. The solution to the current problem is nowhere near as simple as just following some stricter rules and guidelines.

[Chioxin]

How about petitioning the devs to create a purchasable emblam that gives the title of Lorekeeper or some such? In the description, it can be stated that it is worn by dragons whose RP conforms to Istarian Lore. Those who wish to RP purely in Istarian Lore wears one

I think everyone already is in agreeance that where the lore is lacking, and details are not such that can cause conflicts with others details, then it is well within rights.

While handy, this doesn't work in the places where I think most RP happens... That being the channels!!!

While the "Rules" are nice, they aren't really going to help as Akrion said. There's no one enforcing them anyway, and people RP at different levels. There's really stupidly cute hatchling level, all the way to emo rage depressing level. But, to throw another log into the fire, I don't really think they're useful in ALL spaces. For instance, the MarketPlace shouldn't be under these rules. Would it be nice? Sure!

Here's what I see as the real problem.

There are people who want a place to play "seriously" and there just isn't a place for that anymore really. That and it takes a lot of effort to get one of these things going. I know, I use to be a part of this OLD channel called Ye Old Pub! It was painful to manage! Furthermore, it's incredibly hard for these people to find other people that RP at their level.

The solution is for these people to make their own space to do this. To set rules you all agree with and moderate it yourself. You keep your serious character there and interact with other like minded individuals. In the outside public world, I suggest you tone it down a few notches. I already do this with Chioxin. He has a serious RP set up... and then he's A LOT lighter in public. [Maybe to much!]

My rant?

I'm really tired of all the emo, depressed, self loathing, self punishing, RP stuff. Let people help and solve your character's problems and show signs of improvement! Else Chioxin will deem you hopeless and just OM NOM you until you have enough death points that you won't be coming back for a while! =P

[Valareos]

I'm really tired of all the emo, depressed, self loathing, self punishing, RP stuff. Let people help and solve your character's problems and show signs of improvement! Else Chioxin will deem you hopeless and just OM NOM you until you have enough death points that you won't be coming back for a while! =P

Does that make Emo Hatchies Dark Meat? ~mmm hatchies...~

[Dhalin]

So basically, by Valareos's definition, then I myself am not welcome on Order?

That's nice to hear.

I've not harmed anyone, I pay VI $30 a month for my subscriptions, and I dang well think I would reconsider if I were booted off the server, lose my lair, etc because of something petty like this.

If you don't like someone's RP, you know, you CAN choose to ignore it, and if it isn't offensive and if it is somewhat reasonable, there's no reason to go booting people off the server.

That's just ridiculous.

VI knows they can't handle the loss of subs if they were to actually do this. I can't see too many people being happy about losing their plots, lairs, etc and contact with any friends they made along the way.

I think you're trying to open a Pandora's box here.

[Shian]

No one's doing anything.
This is a rant thread people and there's been complaints about order's RP since the dawn of time. Welcome to the never ending circle. Behold!
"There's too much drama!"
*drama stops*
"OMG there's too little RP!"
*RP starts up again*
"OMG people are RPing improperly!"
*RP turns to private RP*
"OMG there's no public RP!"
*RP starts up in public again*
"There's too much drama!"

Seriously people. Go LOOK at all the threads from the bottom of this thread topic, I guarantee you, the same old song is sung every single year/month whatever. Life goes on.

[Dhalin]

I noticed this too...

In fact I see it in that text-based RP area I go to.

People RP okay for awhile, then the drama moves in. People cry out against the drama, then RP dwindles down to almost nothing, 'cept cliques and private RP and then people start bemoaning about how little RP is going on.

Then, after awhile, some more people move in, and drama follows...

Yeah sure it'd be awesome if there were RP going on and little to no drama, but lol. That's like asking Hollywood to put something good on TV.

[Valareos]

So basically, by Valareos's definition, then I myself am not welcome on Order?

That's nice to hear.

I would like to point out my perspective is from one on chaos who was kicked off of order for the same reasons I gave for my definition nearly 7-8 years ago, and at the time agreed with their reasons to do so

[Chioxin]

I'm just saying there are RP circles, get with the ones that mesh with your style and have fun! Though, do understand, there are DEFINITELY preferences!!!

[Thicklesip]

I use to be a part of this OLD channel called Ye Old Pub! It was painful to manage!

I knew I recognized your name. I knew it. *shoves FireWalker further down the alt list, coughs*

That IS the great RP Circle Of Life, Shian, it's true. I don't see the harm in trying to come up with some way to blunt its worse features, though.

[Dhalin]

I would like to point out my perspective is from one on chaos who was kicked off of order for the same reasons I gave for my definition nearly 7-8 years ago, and at the time agreed with their reasons to do so

You can't expect them to go kicking people off the server, 7-8 years later just because you were back then...

Sometimes, rules (or enforcement of such) change. 7-8 years is a long, long time.

I could understand warning some of the more extreme cases, but that's only if warnings are given first and the player is given time to adjust.