Community appointed RP GM

[Xepher]

I do like the idea of a new guild based on the Council of Elders that other players would seek out for advice. Everyone seems so hell bent on the idea that these would be RP police, when it could be just a collection of RPers that one could get feedback on a character before playing.

I would be more than willing to do this if I had a means of 'advertising' myself. I've had players come to me in private asking for help in regards to their character and have always been happy to receive them.

The only problem is, this is rare, and I doubt new players will know to or even want to bother consulting someone else about their choice of character beforehand.

A good idea in theory but it doesn't seem to work out very well in practice. A number of us in Clan Azuranous, such as Raptress, Starstilanx, Nambroth, Xoshara, Hraefn, and myself have attempted that over the past couple years to varying degrees of success (or rather varying degrees of failure). Most of the time the player in question has absolutely no interest in, say, bracketing OOC in non-OOC channels or toning down / changing some really over the top characteristics. It's also common for other old players to jump in the defense of the player in question if the player takes issue with us talking to them about having an Ancient sized grasshopper as a character.

Don't forget about me <: But yes, this is also an issue to keep in mind. Many players will question the advice given rather than comply, some going as far as to fight us on the matter at hand, whether it be lore-breaking or the brackets issue, regardless of how polite we are about it.

[Vaz]

Maybe chances of success are greater if the RPers going towards new ones are less strict and would accept things accepted by most of the public RPers?

Things accepted by most of the public RPers? Everything is accepted by "most of the public RPers", unless it inconveniences them personally and directly (e.g. godmoding). This is the unfortunate truth. The majority of Order's population is not a community, it is a rabble. People who do not care about the quality of the community, the quality of their own RP, or the quality of others' RP. They have no standards at all. Compared to them, everyone who has posted in this thread is part of a minority.
As Akrion pointed out (at least I think he did in this thread?), a bunch of good roleplayers left one year and since then it seems Order has been invaded and occupied by a horde of idiots. If you leave anything up to them, no good will result. But in reality there is nothing else to be done. Besides, as long as their parents pay for their Istaria subscriptions they're useful in one way.

[Xepher]

^ This. This is why I say that we, the minority, should set an example of what the RP standard on Order is. I do not think it cruel or unfair to try and raise the bar a little. Once upon a time, this server was home to the absolute best RP I've ever been a part of, and I've been roleplaying for a very long time. Now? It is indeed a 'circus' as some have put it, and I find myself both frustrated and deeply disappointed when I see what's going on every time I log in.

[LungTien Temeraire]

I fail to see how it's possible for anyone to unwillingly abuse and/or neglect the lore. It is a choice. I don't know why you would think this is a rare occurrence, either. It is common knowledge that a game typically has lore behind every race, and that if one intends to RP that race, they should -probably- read up on it.

I didn't say they were unwillingly neglecting/abusing lore, you misread my sentence. And in some' opinions, demons possessing dragons aren't much more in lore than furred dragons or volcano dragons.

So then, you agree the best course of action is to outright ignore them and that the best case scenario is they change, or leave. How harsh of you <:

I lauged when I read this. Now I am harsch. At least I don't complain when some ghost other characters RPly, I don't lol at them because they have a different RP style in public. I don't go in NT to just say I'm disapproving the name of the new player who hasn't done anything nor has even shown any sign he was planning to RP, just because I don't lke his name. I don't publicly say to a new RPer his style is annoying, without trying to help.

When there is set lore, realism and believability are rarely a matter of opinion alone. There is something to compare the character's story/appearance/what ever to. There is nothing wrong with being creative and bending the lore a little to make your character feel more personalized, the only thing I try to stress to people is that there are LIMITS, and that I wish people would respect the difference between 'unique' and outright ridiculous.

I'd point out that it may be a bit odd when ones says others are out of lore when that one isn't himself totally in lore. Something we don't like isn't necessarily outright ridiculous just because we don't like it. Yes there are limits, but are ways to tell these limits politely and nicely. Some RPer's just think limits are more tightened than some others.

Completely reasonable in an extensive RP community. On Order, this is not a viable solution at all. If I were to personally abide by this, I'd be RPing with the same 5-6 people every single day. Where does that get anyone? Roleplaying is a give and take activity. As a roleplayer I strive not only to receive quality roleplay, but to provide it to others as well. The characters I see on Order today don't want to contribute to that, they are born of the desire to have attention on them, not to be a functional and believable member of the community (Yes, this is a COMMUNITY, not a personal stage) and to breathe life into a culture-rich and beautiful world that's already enjoyable without having to play an overly spiced-up character.

Yes, RP in order involves a community, and so, this can't work without tolerance and open minds. Not everyone thinks like you and not everyone share your views. So, it requires to accept differences, and if ones want not to deal with a RP he doesn't like, as some said, better to just ignore it than to keep bashing on it and denigrating it.

Not pointing anyone here, just expressing my opinion as always.

[LungTien Temeraire]

Things accepted by most of the public RPers? Everything is accepted by "most of the public RPers", unless it inconveniences them personally and directly (e.g. godmoding). This is the unfortunate truth.

No, not everything. They have limits, and only a few have none. On the opposite, some have very tight limits.

The majority of Order's population is not a community, it is a rabble. People who do not care about the quality of the community, the quality of their own RP, or the quality of others' RP. They have no standards at all. Compared to them, everyone who has posted in this thread is part of a minority.

A rabble... nice... In my opinion, most of the shard's population is nice, open, friendly, welcoming and helpful. But a few people do not care about the fact that not everyone have same tastes and ideas than them, and stay closed, have almost no tolerance and closed minds.

As Akrion pointed out (at least I think he did in this thread?), a bunch of good roleplayers left one year and since then it seems Order has been invaded and occupied by a horde of idiots. If you leave anything up to them, no good will result. But in reality there is nothing else to be done. Besides, as long as their parents pay for their Istaria subscriptions they're useful in one way.

Idiots? nice word here too... If you try to enforce your views on everyone, and treat those who don't think like you like that, do you think it will have better results?

Yes, let's enforce an RP oligarchy, made of older and experienced, and highly strict and demanding RPers..

[LungTien Temeraire]

^ This. This is why I say that we, the minority, should set an example of what the RP standard on Order is. I do not think it cruel or unfair to try and raise the bar a little. Once upon a time, this server was home to the absolute best RP I've ever been a part of, and I've been roleplaying for a very long time. Now? It is indeed a 'circus' as some have put it, and I find myself both frustrated and deeply disappointed when I see what's going on every time I log in.

So, a few have to enforce their RP standards on Order? What you dislike isn't necessarily bad. It is your opinion to say it is a circus, just because you don't like it. It disappoints me and many to see some keep denigrating others' RPs in public and keep trying to enforce their views on everyone.

And while some publicly do that, they instantly bite back if ones expresss any negative opinion about their RPs, talking about irrelevance, snide remarks...

Not pointing at anyone, and again expressing my thoughs.

[Xepher]

I didn't say they were unwillingly neglecting/abusing lore, you misread my sentence. And in some' opinions, demons possessing dragons aren't much more in lore than furred dragons or volcano dragons.

You said you rarely saw anyone WILLINGLY neglecting/abusing lore, how else am I supposed to take that? No one is forcing them to not abide by the lore. Perhaps you should word it differently, if I am apparently misreading you.

I stopped referring to it as a 'demon' a long time ago. There is much spirituality in Istaria, much meddling in it as well, so to have a dragon play host to the essence of another creature is lore-bending at best, and I've already stated that a bit of lore-bending is fine. Xeffer also has qualities of a poisonous reptile, which used to be lore-bending and is now more acceptable thanks to Breath of Acid, which used to be a talent unique to her.

I lauged when I read this. Now I am harsch. At least I don't complain when some ghost other characters RPly, I don't lol at them because they have a different RP style in public. I don't go in NT to just say I'm disapproving the name of the new player who hasn't done anything nor has even shown any sign he was planning to RP, just because I don't lke his name. I don't publicly say to a new RPer his style is annoying, without trying to help.

Firstly, my statement was sarcastic. You preach about others being harsh yet openly suggest outright ignoring other RPers who share our space. This in itself could be seen as harsh by others. Do I disagree with the notion of ignoring someone's RP? No, I even stated I would be selective, I only found this to be somewhat hypocritical. Secondly, ghosting is annoying not only to me but to others as well. It is frustrating to keep track of when EVERYONE IN THE CHANNEL is not posting as the character they're actually on. This was something you would NEVER see back when the RP on Order was good, and as I come from those times, I see it as a nuisance.

Thirdly, who's insulting others' styles? I only have a problem with over-the-top characters, and people who refuse to put brackets around their OOC. When I see that, yes I will say something. Someone has to. Am I rude about it? Some times, sure, but I'm not within your sight 24/7 LungTien, and I have made many polite and friendly attempts to steer new players into the right direction, whether you've witnessed it for yourself or not. As for the names, Order is a ROLEPLAYING server. I leave the non-RPing elders of this server alone, but I would expect any new players entering Order to realize what the server is about, and an actual rule of Order is to have an RP-appropriate name, if I'm not mistaken.

I'd point out that it may be a bit odd when ones says others are out of lore when that one isn't himself totally in lore. Something we don't like isn't necessarily outright ridiculous just because we don't like it. Yes there are limits, but are ways to tell these limits politely and nicely. Some RPer's just think limits are more tightened than some others.

I would likewise point out that my character was altered at a point in time where these sorts of characters were few and far between, as well as the addition of such a character did not cause headaches, it made many plots for others to get involved in, and has produced many positive IC relationships as a result. Does this mean I'm proud of it? No, actually. There are times when I regret the path I put my character on, but because of how things developed in terms of the type of characters populating the server, I GREATLY toned her down, I did the right thing and changed my character to fit the community and not cause any additional problems. Can you say the same for the current headaches roaming about?

We all have varied ideas of what is acceptable and what is not, but in the end I should think the limits are quite clear regardless, and they are not being respected presently.

Yes, RP in order involves a community, and so, this can't work without tolerance and open minds. Not everyone thinks like you and not everyone share your views. So, it requires to accept differences, and if ones want not to deal with a RP he doesn't like, as some said, better to just ignore it than to keep bashing on it and denigrating it.

Not pointing anyone here, just expressing my opinion as always.

This entire thread is comprised of people who more or less share my view. Perhaps not as aggressively, but the purpose of its creation was to beg for better Roleplay quality, and that is all I want to see. You may go about things as you see fit, Lung, and I will do the same. My only concern is the community and the quality of RP that stems from it. I have been absent for a long time while you have been present, and I see no changes from when I left out of disheartened frustration, I would even go as far as to say its gotten worse, so excuse me if I don't feel confident that your tactics are the best and most effective.

[LungTien Temeraire]

You said you rarely saw anyone WILLINGLY neglecting/abusing lore, how else am I supposed to take that? No one is forcing them to not abide by the lore. Perhaps you should word it differently, if I am apparently misreading you.

Misread happen to everyone and isn't necessarily intended.

I stopped referring to it as a 'demon' a long time ago. There is much spirituality in Istaria, much meddling in it as well, so to have a dragon play host to the essence of another creature is lore-bending at best, and I've already stated that a bit of lore-bending is fine. Xeffer also has qualities of a poisonous reptile, which used to be lore-bending and is now more acceptable thanks to Breath of Acid, which used to be a talent unique to her.

I had no clue you stopped referring to her as a demon, and have no clue of when you did that.

Firstly, my statement was sarcastic. You preach about others being harsh yet openly suggest outright ignoring other RPers who share our space. This in itself could be seen as harsh by others. Do I disagree with the notion of ignoring someone's RP? No, I even stated I would be selective, I only found this to be somewhat hypocritical. Secondly, ghosting is annoying not only to me but to others as well. It is frustrating to keep track of when EVERYONE IN THE CHANNEL is not posting as the character they're actually on. This was something you would NEVER see back when the RP on Order was good, and as I come from those times, I see it as a nuisance.

Sharing our space? I haven't seen you active in public channels, lately... do you suggest keeping trying to enforce other ways of RP and denigrate the player's choices if he/she refuses to change an inch? The way some people were handled because they had a name you didn't like, at New Trismus, or another who was making two of his characters interact each others among several players' characters, or because ones was making an hatchling talk in a not perfect way, and saying you offer help could be seen as hypocritical too. I haven't seen many players bothered by RPers ghosting other characters, in the last years, and I see a good amount use to do this from times to times, and they are still nice people.

Thirdly, who's insulting others' styles? I only have a problem with over-the-top characters, and people who refuse to put brackets around their OOC. When I see that, yes I will say something. Someone has to. Am I rude about it? Some times, sure, but I'm not within your sight 24/7 LungTien, and I have made many polite and friendly attempts to steer new players into the right direction, whether you've witnessed it for yourself or not. As for the names, Order is a ROLEPLAYING server. I leave the non-RPing elders of this server alone, but I would expect any new players entering Order to realize what the server is about, and an actual rule of Order is to have an RP-appropriate name, if I'm not mistaken.

We speak of rabble of idiots, bad and ridiculous RPs, then ask who is insulting others' styles? When I see ones not using brackets if there are people RPing nearby in main channel, or in RP channels, I ask them if they could use signs to show they aren't RPing, then explain them the reasons, softly and politely, and having done that many times, odd that I mostly saw it ending well. As long as names aren't like General Sword, xxX-Dragonred-Xxx or Eviiiil or Superman, and even more if the players aren't necessarily intending to RP, I see no problem with these. The developpers already said it was to them to decide what names were acceptable or not, in this thread:

http://community.istaria.com/forum/s...ble#post245482

After that, opinions about names are what they are: opinions.

I would likewise point out that my character was altered at a point in time where these sorts of characters were few and far between, as well as the addition of such a character did not cause headaches, it made many plots for others to get involved in, and has produced many positive IC relationships as a result. Does this mean I'm proud of it? No, actually. There are times when I regret the path I put my character on, but because of how things developed in terms of the type of characters populating the server, I GREATLY toned her down, I did the right thing and changed my character to fit the community and not cause any additional problems. Can you say the same for the current headaches roaming about?

It depends how many persons are getting headaches, only a few, or many?

We all have varied ideas of what is acceptable and what is not, but in the end I should think the limits are quite clear regardless, and they are not being respected presently.

The limits aren't that clear and the opinions about these limits aren't facts. It is about degrees of tolerance.

This entire thread is comprised of people who more or less share my view. Perhaps not as aggressively, but the purpose of its creation was to beg for better Roleplay quality, and that is all I want to see. You may go about things as you see fit, Lung, and I will do the same. My only concern is the community and the quality of RP that stems from it. I have been absent for a long time while you have been present, and I see no changes from when I left out of disheartened frustration, so excuse me if I don't feel confident that your tactics are the best and most effective.

Hmm, I have seen many people sharing my view in game, as well... maybe haven't they voiced their opinion here yet. Would this thread's creator have posted it and though about RP councilors and stuff if she though most of the shard's population to be that bad? You have been absent, so you can't know what success I have got. My concern is the community, and good and nice RP, without disregarding the open-minded and tolerance side of it. Some people of your circle have said they had tried with their own methods, and what they have said about the results didn't make me grown confident about these methods' effectiveness.

[Velea]

Sorry, folks, but this thread has become people just saying the same thing in slightly different ways over and over again.

Closing the topic.