WoW vs. Hz

[Dragonboy]

I will start my review of both WoW and Istaria by pointing out some in my eyes pro’s and con’s of both games and make an overall conclusion in the end.

Istaria
- Dragons
- Huge world in which every place is reachable by walking except for the guild islands and some special locations.
- Loads of crafting.
- Biped multi-classing
- Loads of Lag causing very long portal times, sometimes almost as long as actually walking or flying there.
- Great chat system
- Area Revamps… T1 and T2 area looks great and wonder what is to come (maybe adding a few embalming dust dropping mummies in Deadpool would be cool… hint hint hint) in the future with the other areas.

World of Warcraft (started as a Dwarf and played up to lvl 13 solo)
- Nice graphics.
- Fun Fighting.
- Large variety of mobs.
- Those annoying mr. T grenades.
- Massive mob steals !! Large groups simply not caring you are there just annihilating an entire area and leave you with nothing… Even the mob that I was attacking.
- Stupid cartoonish text bubbles forcing you to be at keyboard and minding your surroundings for every second you are online.
- Little to no lag, not even in that big dwarf city… Iron Forge or whatever it was called (with hundreds of players walking or riding about were ever you went).
- Walk back to your corpse or wait 6 minutes thing… Weird but in a strange way fun.
- PvP requests by high level characters.
- Quest locations placed on the map… People cannot read and get their behind to a in the story mentioned location?!? While some quest in Istaria can be a little vague and some might be just plain impossible (none come to mind right now) I prefer to use what little brains I have instead of:
a) Accepting a quest
b) Looking on the map
c) Walking to that locations
d) Kill x mob and loot y loot.
e) Run back to questgiver.

All in all WoW is I guess for some people a cool game, most of the time I enjoyed it actually. However the constant mob stealing, constant PvP requests from characters 2-3 times my level and those text bubbles just annoyed me big time up to the point that I actually longed for Chaos maintenance to finally be over so that I could play an in my eyes normal and relaxing game (even if it was just boring crafting at that time).
If however Istaria had the landscape and graphics from WoW I would love it even more then I do now.

[Dhalin]

Since you only played until Lv13, allow me to Critique a little (no offenses meant):

- Massive mob steals !! Large groups simply not caring you are there just annihilating an entire area and leave you with nothing… Even the mob that I was attacking.

You still get loot and XP if someone kills a mob you were fighting, as long as you were the first one to attack it. With that being said, with Cataclysm out there, there are a lot of high-level players trying to scramble to get The Loremaster (which involves in doing the majority of the game's quests) before they revamp the entire areas (as there will be an achievement for this). They aren't doing it to steal your mobs on purpose; they are doing it because they don't have much longer to get that achievement.

- Stupid cartoonish text bubbles forcing you to be at keyboard and minding your surroundings for every second you are online.

You are aware that WoW has a chat window at the bottom-left area of the screen, right? Anything that appears in the bubbles (those bubbles can be turned off!) appears down there too. Did you accidentally click "Combat Log" in that window? You can click "Chat Window" again to bring the chat window up, in fact, you can split the Combat Log away from the Chat Window by dragging it just like in Hz.

- Little to no lag, not even in that big dwarf city… Iron Forge or whatever it was called (with hundreds of players walking or riding about were ever you went).

This is true for 99% of the game, except Dalaran. They call it Lagaran for a reason, but this is because most players have their bind points set there, for travel purposes.

- Walk back to your corpse or wait 6 minutes thing… Weird but in a strange way fun.

That 6 minute wait, is the 6 minutes the game automatically forces you to walk back to your corpse. The only reason you'd wait, is hoping that someone nearby can cast a resurrection spell on you, before you release your spirit. The whole Corpse-Run thing is actually a very good idea: You don't have to go waaaaaaay back to your bind point, and travel waaaaaay back to where you died to resume doing whatever you were doing. Graveyards are conveniently placed so you can get back to what you're doing, assuming you didn't die in a place that is unsafe to resurrect. If you did, talk to the spirit healer at the graveyard who will res you there for a price.

- PvP requests by high level characters.

This is a bit of a GuideDangit, but there's an add-on that blocks these. You never even see them once you install the said AddOn.

- Quest locations placed on the map… People cannot read and get their behind to a in the story mentioned location?!? While some quest in Istaria can be a little vague and some might be just plain impossible (none come to mind right now) I prefer to use what little brains I have instead of:
a) Accepting a quest
b) Looking on the map
c) Walking to that locations
d) Kill x mob and loot y loot.
e) Run back to questgiver.

You can turn these off, too. Most things in WoW have *options*. You can leave them on, you can turn them off. This is no exception.

All in all WoW is I guess for some people a cool game, most of the time I enjoyed it actually. However the constant mob stealing, constant PvP requests from characters 2-3 times my level and those text bubbles just annoyed me big time up to the point that I actually longed for Chaos maintenance to finally be over so that I could play an in my eyes normal and relaxing game (even if it was just boring crafting at that time).
If however Istaria had the landscape and graphics from WoW I would love it even more then I do now.

Maybe the above information I gave you might encourage you to take another look, maybe not... but there were enough misconceptions there, that I thought I'd clear some of that up for you.

And to the person who said:

Ofcorse I am also use to grinding, after all, my next favorite game after this was FFXI. >.> That should tell ya'll something about me.

I started out on FFXI too, but I got so sick of SE trying to waste as much of my time as humanly possible, that I eventually cancelled my subscriptions after they failed to address core issues of the game, and several updates in a row "fixed" or "adjusted" things that were perfectly fine, and/or they wasted time on stupid stuff nobody cares about, meanwhile there were glaring flaws that could have easily been fixed.

[neva]

I started out on FFXI too, but I got so sick of SE trying to waste as much of my time as humanly possible, that I eventually cancelled my subscriptions after they failed to address core issues of the game, and several updates in a row "fixed" or "adjusted" things that were perfectly fine, and/or they wasted time on stupid stuff nobody cares about, meanwhile there were glaring flaws that could have easily been fixed.

Yea, FFXI right now is losing some players due to some changes they are doing. Recent ones have been good and just as bad, last I checked. I left and ended up throwing everything into this game really.
Two reasons, one it is a better game and two-- The company is now out here in Arizona. Hard to ignore a home based company.

My first MMORPG was Evercrack, before the Kitties showed up and the new graphic engine overhaul...

WoW I played for.. 3 months and got to lvl 20, also had.. 3 characters. which the two others made it to like 10-15.
If I was to really compare the games then this is how I break them down.

Horizons / Istaria:

Pros:

- Dragons
- You Can fly everywhere, even to the newbie areas if you know what corner of the map to go too in the main world(I am serious, try it some time, just watch out for death island).
- You can run everywhere(expect to the newbie islands and areas that you can't 'swim' too.
- Crafting is very advance in this game and yet simple enough to enjoy.
- You can make everything(if you are willing to place the time and effort into it)!
- Multi-job combos: Be a dash of this and a dash of that.
- Beautiful world environment. Which to me has the most breath-taking world of any MMORPG I have played(and I played a ton).
- The Portal System
- Easy Deaths: No having to run for corpses, pay money, lose exp.
- Easy to do things: Doesn't take a genius to do stuff in this game if you pay attention.
- Great UI. I love this games customizable UI system!
- Friendly Staff(Big Plus)
- Friendly Community(Even bigger plus)
- Mature Community(even bigger!)
- So Many things to do!
- Easy Combat System
- Great Map system. Fun to Mark things!
- Exploring!!! This comes with the open world and thus, you can spend hours just looking at everything!
- Plots/Lairs: You can have a home and make it the way you want it too!
- Player vs Environment: Cause it so much fun to bash up the blight then your fellow player.
- Wonderful race selection and customization
- Flight!!

Cons:
- You Can't swim...
- Sometimes, if you didn't read what that Quester said easy enough, you may forget where you need to go.
- Portal Lag: Sometimes, this is when portals are not your friend.
- Can be hard on Newbies: New Players can get lost and if it wasn't for the community and willingness to explore, you may not know what to do next.
- Random invisible wall over that said mountain: They do exist and annoy me so! Even more so when I see a lair.. and that invisible wall wont let me look at it...
- Minor Lag issues: But something I always easily over-look.
- Not Enough Tabs: ..may need to look into that download..
- Where is that special Spot: For those quests that make you find that just right spot.
- Out of Date Character models(and maybe even the world for that matter): The Graphics in Horizons does suffer being out of date and they could use an overhaul.
- Bugs: We all know about them, but we all know they are being exterminated.

WoW(*gnaws on it to try and destroy it*):

Pros:
- Idiot Proof: And it is, sometimes annoyingly so for me.
- Easy to Follow Quests: Hello little arrows.
- Very Easy Combat(and thus very boring combat, cause it is easier then Istaria).
- Long Game History, thus a ton of Lore.
- Many different server types for all your flavor needs.
- You Can swim!
- Land is also Idiot Proof.
- So Are the quests..
- And the UI..
- And the Crafting....
(Note: I don't like idiot proof stuff, don't mind me, but I know it is a profession and this is from a professional point of view, but I do hate idiot proof stuff cause it confuses me!)
- Races have very extensive lore themselves.
- Can Interact with the chairs and such.
- Can actually lay down(instead of just sit).
- Nice emotes
- Somewhat Intelligent AI.
- Mailing System(Though this does allow goldsellers.. evil jerks).
- Offline Guild Support(if I remember right)
- Nice Character Animations
- Very smooth game

Cons:
- Cartoon Graphics(I like not realistic stuff, but the brightness of the world gives me a headache).
- Far to Easy for my personal tastes(Look at the note)
- Great amount of Limitations: I don't like being force fed and I don't like being forced anything.
- Immature Community.
- They also don't know how to take no for an answer on Duels(I am sure some of you know what this means).
- So-so Staff(I think comes with big pants)
- Lack of Exploring.
- Can't do much with the UI
- Character Customization is limited.
- What Home?
- Isn't easy to get from Point a to point b, unless you wanna pay a fee and also do a quest for it too!(Yes, in Istaria you can get around for free if you know how).
- To Much quest driven madness!
- To Much focus on PVP.
- To Much chocolate coated stuff: In other words, just make it what it is and stop lying about it.
- Brain-dead Entertainment: Perhaps a personal PoV, not so much Professional. But I could play wow in my sleep...
- Even the Forums are Immature..
- Goldsellers!!!

[Frith-Rae]

the biggest difference from the 2 games ive seen is freedom,Istaria imo has unlimited freedom, the game allows a player to be and do anything thier heart desires, with all the multi-classing in both craft and adventure it opens such a wide spectrum of possibilities, its also a game of patience, it takes a long time to build your toon (and your plot/lair). when i look at some of the long time members in Istaria i see so many different kinds of playing styles, personalities etc, but 1 thing is common among all of them, dedication.not to offend any WoW players but that game to me is a teenagers game, reminds me of ADHD kids, as were Istaria is more geared for people who dont mind having to work long hours to just finish 1 task

Yea, I'm with Dhalin on the "teen game". First off, you're insulting myself and other Horizons players who play both games .

That's one thing that turns me off to almost every OTHER game out there -especially beta testing. When I login, their general chats are filled with how their game is better than WoW, how WoW sucks, how WoW kiddes better stay away - blahblahblah. I have to pipe in myself with "hey, why don't you work on not offending players who are paying to play both of these games - you need WoW player money as much as the next guy" WHich is the truth.

Don't judge players because they play a game 11 milllion people like and you don't. Sorry its one of my pet peeves.

I am in a guild with, am allied with many guilds, and raid a 10 and 25 man where EVERY SINGLE PERSON in the raid is over the age of 21 - most are actually over hte age of 30. Married, with kids, and jobs, and even grandkids. Studies have shown that the vast percentage of MMO gamers, even in WoW, fit that demographic.

But it seems to be a nerd-gamer-human trait that people who play a game you don't like get put into some "other" category - of "teenagers/pvpgankers/immatureahats" whatever. I've learned its just not true, and to play a game and get active in a guild of your choosing on your own terms.

Now as to Istaria pro's and cons vs. WoW pros and cons. To be fair with Dhalin, as someone who has been in BOTH games since a month after day one - and played past level 15..21..30...40...through all content. I'll just comment on some of what others are listing.

But I ask ANYONE who is interested in subbing to more than one MMO (not sayign you need to give up your HOrizons sub, right now I"m playing 3 MMOs at once and drop by in SL for some RP...)

I'm also going to do this as "Pros in Istaria and how it compares to things in WoW/ Cons in WoW/Istaria and how they compare" as I feel it helps to put the content side by side..if you really want to do that.

Istaria
Pros:
Dragons

For me that's it. I'm a dragon so I can't multi-school. So that's irrelevant for me. The Crafting is something I feel I HAVE to do in order to take a break from lag-tag-combat, but honestly I don't realy enjoy it. Its far too much grind for it to feel like I'm getting anywhere very efficiently. The fact that it takes literally thousands of items to make 20 bricks in a room in a lair is obnoxious to me. Compared with say EQII a far superior craft engine to me - where you can make whatever you want, build whatever you want out of what you can make, and OMG it only takes like a few things to actually craft an item!

Character Customization - yes, Horizon wins here, hands down. Definitely.

Great UI - absolutely. To this day Horizons has the best out of the box UI system, with all the cutomizations, than any other game I've played or betatested. Why other games can't allow this same basic standard I have no idea. Yes, WoW has addons - but to me its not the same as an out-of-the-box great UI.

What others have listed:
Portals - yes I agree those are convienent. WoW has a few portals to far reach places, everythign else is flight path - which can give you a nice AFK break for 1 minute or so but Portals are faster.

Unlimited World to run from one end to another - um - WoW has this between each seperate continent. No I can't run across the ocean, but on solid land masses I can run from one end to another with no loading zones. Any islands I can also run/swim/fly to - just like in Hz. Since Hz. has no actual other continents to travel to, apples and oranges.

Beautiful graphics - how you can say that and then as a con list that they're outdated I'm not sure. But WoW has some gorgeous vistas (go look up Crystalsong Forest sometime) - that you tend to not see if you don't get past level 30... This isn't true for me because of the lag required to see anything.

Multiclassing - yes I think this is a pro for bipeds. For dragons its irelevant. I also consider this a con myself, as I don't think multiclassing is realy optimal for any game. WoW certainly doesn't have this - it does have well built single classes, that are pretty dang balanced.

Neva you said "easy deaths - not having to run, pay money, lose exp" What?? I'd MUCH rather coprse run to my corpse in 30 seconds than the system Horizons has of recalling to your bind spot and taking possibly 5-10 minutes to get BACK out to where you're fighting, and having to restart at the beginning of the area. I'd also much rather pay a gold or two, or a few copper in repair fees than having Death Points. To me in Horizons, when I die in combat I just go do something else - as literally the recall/runback to continue what I'm doing is usually such a PITA I dont bother to do it again int he same session unless I'm helping others.

Easy Combat System - I disagree. For me as a dragon the timers on all my abilties are far too long. I can die to things 30 levels below me. Heck in the recent patch some are dyign to things 70 levels below them. If I don't spend my time grinding for literally weeks on end I have subpar armor which means I die to things 50 levels below me . I have lag everytime I walk - so I have to wait for mobs to pop - possibly killing me and causing thet portal/runback annoyance. As for "easy" - well does that mean requires no thought to use? Because Neva says its a con to play WoW in your sleep - but Istaria is easy combat? Again this is making no sense to me.

Friendly Staff - I'll go with that. Smaller Game = smaller staff= more communcation and personal feel. Friendlier Community - I'll gow tih that too. Smaller game = smaller community = generally means pepole are nicer to each other because they know each other. I can get the same effect in a large WoW guild with the same population as Istaria - everyone is friendly to everyone else there too. Apples and Oranges to me here. You can wholly avoid most immaturity in WoW by simply turning off certain channels .

Flight - as a dragon I love it. In WoW I love it too - where I fly on my dragons. Both flights are just as controllable - one is as my character, one is on a mount. In WoW, I can fly over an entire continent and never have to stop to wait for beautiful scenary to load. With the next expansion I can fly over the entire world of content everywhere, same thing. A much bigger world. But no I'm still not THE dragon.

Crafting - for those that dont mind the grind a plus. Craft-oriented players will definitely prefer this game. I thought it was a pretty good system until I played EQIIs system.

For those people I"d advice poking around in EQII for a much more efficient, developed, less grindy craft system. Seriously, just give it a look...I dare you. For EQII you can't build your house that's true, but you can literally build thousands upon thousands of items to place in said house/yard and guild hall and the way the placement works allows for INIFINTE variations in decoration (visit their forum and the decorator halls and just MARVEL at what pepole are doing!). Horizons - you can build the outside, not the inside. You have several hundred options at most - and you can spend weeks to craft a single building. Apples and Oranges.

Some Cons people have listed about WoW and how it compares to Istaria:

Easy to Follow Quests - hrm, this to me is a toss up. I Understand some people don't want handholding - but you can turn it off entirely. And up until a few months ago, it wasn't even holding your hand - at all - it was setup like Horizons/Istaria. The quest told you where to go and you figured it out from there. The only differnces was the ! and ? on the quest givers (half of which Istaria now has..).

On the other hand - spending 30 minutes trying to find a single mob or NPC in Istaria without the mappack is to me beyond frustrating. I'm flying in circles, waiting for the game engine to catch up to me, having no idea if I'm even IN the right area or not, having to ask upteen people if they have any clue where I need to go..again just not efficient and annoying waste of time to me. I spent over an hour the other week trying to locate a missing NPC on the Dalimond Ridge. Stupid me thought I was looking for a dead body (oh well that'll teach me) so didn't think ot talk to NPCs at the Helian Tomb Camp... Once I found it after strafing the TOP of the Dalimond RIdge for an hour (cuz the quest said on the peak...).

I think I prefer WoW's system. I can explore everything on my own as I want to, but when I want to get something done it doesn't take me 2 hours to do a single part of a quest. I can login for 30 minutes and get things done. I can't do that in Horizons.

And again, in WoW's sytem you can turn off the handholding and run around in circles as much as you like! In Istaria I can't turn on anything and figure out where I need to be after 40 minutes of searching.

Cartoon Graphics - I agree. The grahpics on the front end seem cartoony. But honestly, I've got far more breathaking screenshots from being able TO SEE FOR MILES in WoW than I have in ANY other game I've played. That includes the "realistic" ones - which half the time end up being boring grass/trees and deserts (EQII, LOTR, VG...) and nothing really breathtaking. WoW has variety. ALmost every single level zone and quest hub has an entirely different look - I'll take that over counties of endless grass and trees anyday.

And before I played WoW I prefered "realism". I think I still do. I just see much more exotic and variety in WoW than in other games that tout their "realistic" looks. Seems like what I see these days realism=boring.

"Great Amount of LImitations - No Exploring" Not sure where this is coming from. If you mean no multiclassing, yes, yes that's true. Exploring - no, no I can pretty much explore every nook and cranny - and I even get a title for doing so. I can run from one end of each Continent to the Other, even as a level 1, (people are doing it right now for the hell of it lol) without loading screens or walls (outside of terrain of course, makes sense to me I can't run straight upt he mountain lol). No, WoW is not a crafting game - it never claimed to be - so crafting is limited to things that are actually useful to players and that can be made with less effort. I don't see this as a con or a plus - just a difference. Force fed - to each quest hub? To me I like this - it tells me where I"m suppose to be going next in the game. Games that dont' do that seem to lack polish to me. Istaria is getting better on this.

"Isn't easy to get from port A to port be without quest and money" Um - yes it is. You don't have to pay a cent to get around on the same continent anyway (I.e. Kalimdor itself, or Eastern Kingdom's itself, or Northrend itself). In fact, everytime a new zone opens up we have a "flight path" run where we gather up as a guild and RUN to each flight-spot in a new zone/country/expansion to make travel later on easier bewteen areas. But you dont' have to do that. You can simply run from area to area if you want. Very easy - jus tlike in Istaria.

Quest Driven Madness? WHat? I can undersatnd Neva you don't like quests, I get that. I have a friend of mine who is the same way - he plays Eve because he hates questing. But you are in the vast minotiry of MMO gamers out there. People want quests. People want MORE quests in Istaria - that is clear. Its asked over and over and over again. WoW has over THREE THOUSAND quests, probably over 3500. I know because I'm doing every single one of them. The only game that even comes close is probably EQII. LOTR doesn't hold a candle, neither does any other game I've played or Betaed. And in WoW they've actually WORKED to come up with different quest mechanics and ideas than "Kill X for Y, Run A to B". And in WoW, when you kill an animal, it drops an ear - every time! (at least in the expansions, old world will too once Catyclysm comes out lol). If it says get 20 hooves, that means you'll kill 20 animals - not 40..not 100...20. Cuz each one willd rop at least one hoof.

But you don't have to quest in WoW if you dont' want. YOu can mob grind if you prefer - just like you can is Istaria. There are people who level through mob grinding, instance grinding, PVP leveling - all those options in WoW. Istaria you can do what? Quest (sometimes) or mob grind (the rest). I'm not sure how this is a negative in WoW but a positive in Istaria?

Focus on PVP? Ar? You can avoid it entirely and never touch it and have it never effect your game or your ability to play. Not getting this. Yes, some jerks will try to duel you - but as pointed out there is a simple addon that will auto-decline any of that (I have it), and on my RP server I rarely ever find people doing so.


The major point here through that wall of critted text. People say Istaria has more variety, has more options. But I just don't see it. Yes, Istaria is more of a crafting game. WoW is not. Plain and simple. Again to me this is apples and oranges if you speak of crafting. WoW doesn't pretend nor advertise itself as a craft-friendly game.

Istaria's variety is what after crafting (i'm saying BEYOND and OUTSIDE of crafting here) - you can multiclass if you're not a dragon. Ok. So how much variety is that? You can use different attacks to kill the exact same mobs you killed for unlimited number of classes before? You can level up by questing maybe 1/2 your time if you're lucky to be a dragon, and the other half is mob grinding. And that's it. That's your options to level. We now have one glorious Dungeon to play in at "end game". Great. We've got a couple dozen titles now in game - awesome. A few fluff things- great.

WoW - Vareity? Ok how's this. You have roughly 3500 quests you can use to level in - across dozens and dozens of zones most of which look vastly different from each other. Or you can mob grind to level. Or you can PVP only and level. Or you can skip all that and ONLY Run hundreds of instances to level, now made easier by the mostwonderous LFG system to be put into a game (and I hate Pugs and I say that...) to date.

You want to kill the same mobs using different attacks? Ok, you can't do it with one character but you can roll an alt and do what Istaria lets you do - attack the same mobs with a different set of abilities. Only wait, you can actually level up at least 2 characters (done it) without crossing the same zone - so you can kill DIFFERENT mobs with different abilities..lol.

Hundreds of Titles. Hundreds of fluff pets and mounts. You can still run from one end of a continent to another without loading zones. You can avoid PVP like the plague if you want and never notice a difference.

There's dozens of dungeons end game - and probaby about a dozen 10 and 25 man raids as well at end game.

So Variety - I don't get the slams??

Honestly I see here what I see everywhere, WoW haters come out and bash the game without realy playing it (level 15 and 20 don't count, at least get to 60 which was the original end game). They point out "problems" they hate about WoW - but which really when compared to their game of choice (here Istaria) - WoW actually does that, and then some.

I'm not an Istaria Hater. I'm not a WoW hater. I'm not an LOTR Hater. I'm not an SL Hater, or a WAR Hater, or an EQ, or an ANY MMO HATER. I may not like some of those games, but I tend to stay away from "this game sucks this game rocks". Because ultimately they all do the same thing.

But honestly I can take ALMOST every positive of Istaria and show you how WoW takes it one step farther.

But of course its still up to people's opinions. I happen to like multiple MMOs for a vareity of reasons - all have strengths and weaknesses (though honestly WoW weaknesses when compared to every other live game are hard to pinpoint - no crafting is the biggest).

I just find it a pet peeve when people start tearing down a really well built and designed game when they just don't give it a fair chance. WoW is the one to take down, so WoW is the target these days.

[Raptress]

As a player of both games, I'm going to have to second what Frith-Rae said: "I just find it a pet peeve when people start tearing down a really well built and designed game when they just don't give it a fair chance."

If WoW was this terrible game that everyone hates, it wouldn't be the juggernaut of the MMO market, would it? x3 It's a fun game, and I'm sure you can turn off the hand-holding whenever you like. I do find it amusing though that someone would point out goldsellers as a reason to dislike WoW.. you do know that if Istaria was a huge contender, we'd have goldsellers too, right?

[Dragonboy]

Maybe the above information I gave you might encourage you to take another look, maybe not... but there were enough misconceptions there, that I thought I'd clear some of that up for you.

No offence taken, I know that I probably did some stuff wrong, many options that were available that I never used simply due to not knowing they existed.

The game however did not make me feel like I wanted to play it for many months or many years. Not like Istaria (or SWG a long time ago)

December last year I tried multiple MMORPGs that had a free trail to play together with Istaria. Only none of those games were even remotely good enough to even compare it to the way I feel when I play my characters in Istaria. City of Heroes lasted 3 hours, WoW lasted 8-9 hours and EVE online actually lasted 1.5 month before canceling subscription (and no not after a bad PvP experience).
In comparison to Istaria (main characters 1500+ days old) or SWG which I had played for 6 months up to the screw-up none of the before named games had any of the “fun factors” I need to keep enjoying the game.

Although I am very honest when saying that if there ever comes out another MMORPG with a playable dragon character I might consider leaving Istaria for it eventually, but until then I doubt any of the currently available MMORPGs can keep my interest for very long.

[neva]

As a player of both games, I'm going to have to second what Frith-Rae said: "I just find it a pet peeve when people start tearing down a really well built and designed game when they just don't give it a fair chance."

If WoW was this terrible game that everyone hates, it wouldn't be the juggernaut of the MMO market, would it? x3 It's a fun game, and I'm sure you can turn off the hand-holding whenever you like. I do find it amusing though that someone would point out goldsellers as a reason to dislike WoW.. you do know that if Istaria was a huge contender, we'd have goldsellers too, right?

Well, the reason why Istaria doesn't have it, is because we don't have away for them to actually use the market. We don't have mail-box system, so there is no way for Goldsellers to do there job here.
FFXI didn't have any, but when they went open trial, boom-- they did.

I've even seen F2P MMORPGs that are like.. no names have goldsellers.
So, I figure it is because of Istaria having a no mail system is why we don't have goldsellers.

---------------


If you really wanted to go with the Grandfathers of WoW, that be Ultimate Online and EQ. I use to play EQ-- Now i hate it. I did play WoW. I given WoW several tries to amuse me, to tickle my fancy..
Heck I was trying to figure out why people liked it so much and yet, I still don't get it. I find it like EQ and thus, whatever I liked about EQ ended, so whatever wow has in similar to EQ, that apparently also ended.

I have nothing against WoW, like I have nothing against EQ either. However, I don't like it, so what I pointed out was my own break down of the two games. I find Istaria being a far better game then WoW.
However, someone who really likes WoW, will find wow to be a better game then Istaria.

It is all a matter of perspective of the individual. For every folk they have a different stroke. After all, no two people are really alike. Just there is the majority and the minority-- and I sadly fit into the Minority. (This is true actually in many things in my life)

So, no reason to get annoyed or peeved. That was just my break down, of my opinion, and really-- No matter how much WoW does, I will always find it a boring game, where I am yawning in 5 mins into the game, and 30 mins in, I am thinking about turning on My ps2, getting on a MU*, or playing on my DS. Maybe even drawing.

Istaria keeps my attention for several hours before I start to think about doing something else.

Don't ask me why, I can't really explain it-- outside of I am just a minority of a majority.

[Raptress]

Well, the reason why Istaria doesn't have it, is because we don't have away for them to actually use the market. We don't have mail-box system, so there is no way for Goldsellers to do there job here.
FFXI didn't have any, but when they went open trial, boom-- they did.

I think it far more likely that goldsellers simply can't make money here. :P Small game, no economy to speak of.. If they really wanted to, it wouldn't be hard to get around the lack of a mail system. It's not like it takes much besides the ability to sign up for a free email account to get a trial account, or even a free one here.

[Dhalin]

I think it far more likely that goldsellers simply can't make money here. :P Small game, no economy to speak of.. If they really wanted to, it wouldn't be hard to get around the lack of a mail system. It's not like it takes much besides the ability to sign up for a free email account to get a trial account, or even a free one here.

^^^
Truth.

No Demand = No Need For Supply = No Market = No Profit.

Goldsellers are not going to try and sell gold in a game where gold is virtually useless.

The reason why FFXI got hit so hard with RMT, is because of how large of a crutch money was in that game. When you have "must-have" low-level items that you wear the whole way to max level (a certain (in)famous Level 33 necklace comes to mind, you wear it clean to max level and into endgame), and when said item is VERY EXPENSIVE to say the least, many people would rather spend $100 (most people with a job can make that kind of money in 2 days) rather than spend 3 weeks+ farming the in-game money.

From an effort standpoint, buying money with 2 days' work is better than spending 2 weeks farming it in-game, right?

Morality, it is the opposite, because you're supporting an illegal activity, and one that aids in making the gameplay poorer for everyone, but many people look at the "me" aspect of it.

In WoW, I do not understand why people buy gold in WoW. Mom and I have two accounts, one account has 104,000 gold, the other has about 80,000 gold. To give you an idea of how much 104,000 gold is, the most expensive vendor-sold item I can think of, is 16,000 gold, and it is a pure vanity item: The Traveller's Tundra Mammoth. The most expensive useful item I've ever seen on the AH, is a Battered Hilt, which results in the best non-raid non-endgame weapon, and is commonly sold for 15,000 to 25,000 gold.

It really isn't that hard to make money; one hour of doing daily quests at endgame gives you 300-400 gold per day. And that's if you do JUST the dailies and no farming, mining, what-not.

[Frith-Rae]

AYe Dhalin, its not that hard if you invest just a tad bit of time into it. THough I have many guildies who can't afford epic riding - they also don't play alot outside of raiding and such to make money either.

I play the AH and have just over 50K on my bank alt, though my main always has af ew K on her just from doing dailies and such. I don't play the AH hard core clearly, just somethings I drop off every week or two heh.

As for gold farmers - yes I think it has to do with the strength of the game. LOTR and EQII both have them as well. Not as "openly" as you see in WoW, but they don't have 11 million subs crossing multiple countries either... (i.e. if you can't play LOTR in China you can't have chinese gold farmers as easily lol).

[AmonGwareth]

In WoW, I do not understand why people buy gold in WoW.

The reason is obvious; Its the same reason why micro-transaction games are becoming popular. Some people have lots of time, but not lots of real-world money. Or, value their money more than their time. Given your responses, you would likely fall into this category. You have lots of time and are more than willing to spend it generating gold.

Other people have lots of money, but not as much time. Or value their time more than their money. So they would rather spend their money to get gold and therefore get ahead.

One way isn't better than any other, its just different. MMORPG companies, despite the fact that they dislike gold-sellers, create a market for them by creating situations where a) gold is require in abundance for valuable objects and b) make it so that gold takes time and/or effort to obtain.

It is simple supply and demand.

It really isn't that hard to make money; one hour of doing daily quests at endgame gives you 300-400 gold per day. And that's if you do JUST the dailies and no farming, mining, what-not.

Just wanted to point out that this is grind. You may not hate it and it may not seem dull to you, but it does seem dull to some. And its no different than what others feel is grind in Istaria or FFXI or any other MMORPG.

[velveeta]

horizons rules, wow drools
just that simple

[neva]

horizons rules, wow drools
just that simple

I believe you, Velveeta, cheese queen(I believe is your title yes?) Just really, really hate wow. XD

I remember you having that Title even back when I first joined the forums... and I have always wondered..

How did you become the cheese queen?

[velveeta]

ah neva, a long and off topic story! the short version then, and maybe i will only get half an infraction:

a long time ago, in a realm far far away, a group of friends met every week to sling dice and get altered.
during these entertaining evenings, an elven thief with delusions of grandeur stepped into the forgotten stage.
velvet goldmine (eventually adding o'donald to her name as well, but that is an entirely other story) became known for her offbeat and strange knowledge of other worldly kitsch, and thus became velveeta the cheese queen.


all incarnations of de reine du fromage are but pale shadows of the true queen - so i leave it to your imagination as to the awesome power of the real velveeta!

[Frith-Rae]

don't worry about the off topic - its the off topic forum afterall .