Spell Stacking!

[Losian]

I'm sure this has posted before, but it's something I wanted to drop some thoughts for.

As a Spiritist I'm having a heck of a time keeping track of what does or doesn't stack. Between Malady, Withered State, Stinger, Soul Link, Ethereal Paroxysm and Ethereal Leech I really can't figure out what in the world stacks with what and what overwrites/prevents what.

This also leads into spells like Regrowth - it has a very long tick time, and doesn't heal all that much, whereas anyone who can cast it already has Growth I mastered which is, arguably, better! And since it doesn't stack, well.. I wonder if anyone really ever uses Regrowth at all, the spell? It seems some adjusting there in terms of stacking or effect might make it worthwhile to have/cast in lieu of Growth I. If it stacked but had a lesser effect, or had a short duration but strong effect, etc.

As for Spiritist, it seems like, at least to me, school abilities should stack with spells. If not, the abilities are basically pigeonholed into "use whenever up instead of casting a spell," in the example of Soul Link. As for spells, I can see similar spells, a la Paroxysm and Leech, not stacking, but Withered State is a simple dot, and Malady is a DoT debuff, so those seem like they should stack. Same with Stinger, being just a spirit DoT, seems it should stack with most things, rather than interfere with leech/paroxysm.

Just some thoughts in fiddling around with schools and seeing what abilities and all are out there.

[walkerglassmire]

<snip>This also leads into spells like Regrowth - it has a very long tick time, and doesn't heal all that much, whereas anyone who can cast it already has Growth I mastered which is, arguably, better! And since it doesn't stack, well.. I wonder if anyone really ever uses Regrowth at all, the spell? It seems some adjusting there in terms of stacking or effect might make it worthwhile to have/cast in lieu of Growth I. If it stacked but had a lesser effect, or had a short duration but strong effect, etc.<snip>

I just wanted to comment on this part. As a Monk (Sparky Monk specifically) I can and do cast Regrowth, but do not have the Growth ability. I agree that Regrowth would be a LOT happier if it did more heal/tick, but, it's better than nothing.

/derail

[Finkledbody]

It sure would be cool if some more spells were stackable. However, for those that have multi-classed their peds heavily, this sorta thing would get quickly turn some already powerful peds, into some uber crazy ones

Hey wait a minute... Sure sounds good to me

[AmonGwareth]

As for spells, I can see similar spells, a la Paroxysm and Leech, not stacking, but Withered State is a simple dot, and Malady is a DoT debuff, so those seem like they should stack. Same with Stinger, being just a spirit DoT, seems it should stack with most things, rather than interfere with leech/paroxysm.

Malady and Withered State are both Blight DoTs which is why they conflict.

Same with Stinger and Leech/Paroxysm. Spirit DoTs hence the conflict.

This is by design so that too numerous DoTs cannot be piled on top of one another repeatedly.

[Guaran]

As a Spiritist I'm having a heck of a time keeping track of what does or doesn't stack. Between Malady, Withered State, Stinger, Soul Link, Ethereal Paroxysm and Ethereal Leech I really can't figure out what in the world stacks with what and what overwrites/prevents what.

Completely agree as far as the Blight techs go. Some blight techs can be placed onto spells, where the techs' effect will not stack with the spells!

This could be helped a bit with better descriptions on the techs themselves.

As for Spiritist, it seems like, at least to me, school abilities should stack with spells. If not, the abilities are basically pigeonholed into "use whenever up instead of casting a spell," in the example of Soul Link. As for spells, I can see similar spells, a la Paroxysm and Leech, not stacking, but Withered State is a simple dot, and Malady is a DoT debuff, so those seem like they should stack. Same with Stinger, being just a spirit DoT, seems it should stack with most things, rather than interfere with leech/paroxysm.

I have to say I completely agree here. Soul Link for example is a Spiritist ability. Whats the point of having an ability it the spells overwrite it? Not like it does big healing/damage anyway. As it is now, it's worthless.

The grouping of spells into these "buckets" that makes them not stack with anything else in the same "bucket" really does need looking at. Perhaps add more buckets for effects from techs, so that the effect from a tech that is a dot can stack with a spell effect that is a dot. Also some buckets for Ability effects, so that they do not conflict with spells or techs, but could still conflict with abilities.

Some melee abilities were recently unlinked, seems like the same is needed her as well.

[Losian]

I do understand the need to avoid TOO Much stack-ability, it mostly just leaves me hardly bothering to use some abilities, such as Stinger or Soul Link, due to the spells and how easily and often they over-write/don't stack. Stinger is all but unusable, as it prevents the use of any life-draining DoT, thus making it automatically worse, so the ability itself maybe could use a little love or different purpose, considering that. I just hate to see cool abilities end up unused or barely used due to stacking issues.

[AmonGwareth]

There are most likely some conflicts that don't make sense, I agree. However, the solution would be a serious overhaul of the keyword system and I'm not sure that is very feasible.

[Guaran]

Perhaps just start with a small change/fix, such as for the blight spell techs. And work on small pieces of it with each update. That way in a year or 2 it's done.

[AmonGwareth]

Perhaps just start with a small change/fix, such as for the blight spell techs. And work on small pieces of it with each update. That way in a year or 2 it's done.

Its not that simple... Each change can have impacts elsewhere because spell effects that are intended to stack suddenly don't and vice versa. Besides, the system would need an audit to determine its initial state.

[AmonGwareth]

Completely agree as far as the Blight techs go. Some blight techs can be placed onto spells, where the techs' effect will not stack with the spells!

He said nothing about Blight Techs so not sure where that came from. You are correct, however, that they need better descriptions listing their keywords so you can determine conflicts. Finding time is the real catch.

As a Spiritist I'm having a heck of a time keeping track of what does or doesn't stack. Between Malady, Withered State, Stinger, Soul Link, Ethereal Paroxysm and Ethereal Leech I really can't figure out what in the world stacks with what and what overwrites/prevents what.

Yea, these were a bit messy. Malady is only partially a Blight DoT (primarily a stat debuff) so I have no problem removing the dot_blight keyword so it won't conflict with Withered State (Which is a Blight DoT).

Stinger is definitely a Spirit DoT, but Soul Link, Ethereal Paroxysm and Ethereal Leech are all Life Drains so it was odd they were using the dot_spirit keyword as well. Giving them a new keyword so they won't conflict with Stinger. They will, however, continue to conflict with one another since they all do the same thing.

For the record, after looking at Growth/Regrowth I am not willing to remove the conflict there. Regrowth is tech-able while Growth is not, that's the key difference.

[AmonGwareth]

Completely agree as far as the Blight techs go. Some blight techs can be placed onto spells, where the techs' effect will not stack with the spells!

I seem to remember this being discussed before and I think there were specific techs/spells listed, but for the life of me I can't find it. Anyone remember where that thread was?