Blight Update 223 Comments

[Akrion]

Not useable, not applicable.. and for someone lobbying against creating rifts, lying about an item that doesn't exist... isn't helping your case.

They easily could have just been unaware, which if they were, they weren't lying, they were just misinformed.

[Merrik]

i think a lot of the problem and concerns about this socketing issue is due to a major misconception as to what a tool claw really is, and does for a dragon.

this misconception seems to be party to both some players and the Devs themselves, forgetting what and why this item was added in the first place. it is nothing to do with a balancing issue. please bear with me while i try to explain the miconception and it's practical use as well.

to start: the dragon tool claw is "not" a dragon tool. the most common miconception i see going on here.

now lets see if i can make this a bit more clear: bipeds get a tool and socket it 3 times. in this case lets say a smelting tong (this may not be correct in setup, but it's just for a quick example) in those 3 sockets they can add the necessary crystals such as power/str and a cog that adds smelting. now everytime they pick up that tool, those crystals are always there, and in use.

now look at a dragon: they do not have tools like smelting tongs that can take sockets. dragons instead, have abilities which can "not" be socketed. hence the tool claw (it add no bonus to the craft) but here we socket the claw and that is a dragons only way to use the same crystal/cog functions as the permanent ones in the biped smelting tongs.

now whether the tool claw has 3 sockets or 10 sockets for T5+, dragons still only benefit from the 3 crystals inserted that are usable by the "ability" they enable. basically the claw is only the sockets dragons need to carry around, because their abilities can not be socketed as a biped tool can.

so if a tool claw had 10 sockets and you added gatherer cog, lairshapers cog, spellcrafters cog, power, dex, focus, strength and so on.. the ones not needed by the ability enabled by the dragon are null, until they switch abilities. just as a bipeds crystals are changed when they switch to a different tool.

so say they enable the essence harvesting ability, the following crystals would be the only ones in use at that time: gatherer's cog, power crystal and what's the 3rd one? focus? no other crystals installed in the tool claw would be in effect.

it would be a waste of time to try and use it as a weapon claw. so that factor remains out of the question, since dragon tool claw can only accept tool crystals and cogs. and can only access and use the cog and crystals for that ability the dragon has enabled at that time.

bipeds on the other hand, have 3 with them, already embedded into their tools. and when they switch tools the crystals are changed by what they installed in their next tool.

dragons weren't originally designed to have a need to carry tools. and the claw was created so they could use crystals and cogs, same as a biped can. but dragons needed a seperate way to do this. hence the introduction of the tool claw.

the only thing making it limited to 3 sockets does, is revert the dragons to needing tools on top of the fact that they were designed with abilities, to prevent them from needing to carry the extra items.

i hope this brings a better understanding to those who are confused, and think that having a tool claw with more than 1, 2 or even 3 sockets is either overpowering a dragon, or giving them some sort of bonus a biped does not have. because that is clearly not the case, and is the main reason i can not see, why the devs are giving us such a hard time about one claw with 4 sockets. as i said, if it could hold 10 sockets, it still would work the same way.

it is not a 4 socketed tool, it is only a glove (so to speak) that carries the same socketing effects biped tools already have permanently enbedded. please keep that in mind.

i hope this clears up a lot of confusion, though i fear it might just create more... and sorry for the length of this post

[Dracaena]

I'm sorry you all feel that we're somehow out to get you. After this many years and everything we add on a regular basis the continuity of that belief continues to surprise me.

First, let me reiterate and say that as we stated above existing tool claws won't be losing their 4 tech slots. Only NEW prototype claws will be getting 3 tech slots instead of 4.

Regarding this issue and the choice for Dragon Breath boost my thinking was as follows:

1) The claw is obtained in a quest for BREATH OF ACID. So it makes sense to tie it to the quest a bit.

2) If a dragon has the tool claw equipped while crafting and has to fight they'll get a boost to breath (in addition to whatever they have socketed).

3) The quest is not a quest for a tool claw, but rather for a breath attack. So, the tool claw should not be the be-all end-all of claws.

You are welcome to disagree, and I'm sure many will. I'm firmly against boosting base stats since you can get a regular tool claw with those stats if you wish, but I did wish to differentiate it from a regular Tier 6 tool claw (which btw will be making its appearance in this update as well).

If you are evaluating tool claws as a whole, which is what it seems like by putting in a t6 tool claw, I have a request. Please if you must put skill number requirements on the tool claws rather then just craft levels, use dragon skill numbers for the base.

It looks to me like the skill numbers on existing crafted tool claws are a copy paste from a biped mining pick. Dragons can't take up miner school for the 11 skill points per level in mining. We get 7 points per level and every ten levels a 10 point boost if we do our craft ability quest.

If I could use as an example, the t3/lv40 tool claw. Newer dragon player crafters are usually rather excited to hit lv40 for a two socket tool claw. But after they get it, they discover to their dismay they can't equip it. Their mining skill is too low. They simply have to overlevel the tool claw before they can use it.

But what about tech'ed crafting scales you say? Unless that new player is in a guild that will supply the comps for them, a new level 40 dragon isn't going to be able to gather comps on their own for a new set of craft scales right at lv40. Easiest solution currently is just grind more craft levels, which is a let down for that player who thought a shiney double socketed tool claw was within reach. This pattern continues with each higher level claw.

In conclusion, could we please have the skill numbers looked at from a dragon perspective if we must have skill number limits.

[Ramaj]

i think a lot of the problem and concerns about this socketing issue is due to a major misconception as to what a tool claw really is, and does for a dragon.
As I see it: a tool claw was introduced so that a dragon could also make use of crystals/cogs by socketing the claw and placing the crystal(s), like a biped can by socketing his/her tools.

this misconception seems to be party to both some players and the Devs themselves, forgetting what and why this item was added in the first place. (see above)
it is nothing to do with a balancing issue. please bear with me while i try to explain the miconception and it's practical use as well.


to start: the dragon tool claw is "not" a dragon tool. the most common miconception i see going on here.
No, it's not a tool.......it is a means of "socketing a dragon ability" like a biped can socket his/her tool(s).

now lets see if i can make this a bit more clear: bipeds get a tool and socket it 3 times. in this case lets say a smelting tong (this may not be correct in setup, but it's just for a quick example) in those 3 sockets they can add the necessary crystals such as power/str and a cog that adds smelting. now everytime they pick up that tool, those crystals are always there, and in use.
Let's do an item count here too: 1 3-socketed tool with 3 crystals/cogs = 4 items

now look at a dragon: they do not have tools like smelting tongs that can take sockets. dragons instead, have abilities which can "not" be socketed. hence the tool claw (it add no bonus to the craft) (a biped tool does not add bonus to a craft/skill either) but here we socket the claw and that is a dragons only way to use the same crystal/cog functions as the permanent ones in the biped smelting tongs.
A biped will have to socket each and every tool with 3 sockets and 3 crystals/cogs. Every craft has 2 - 3 tools = 8-12 items per craft.

now whether the tool claw has 3 sockets or 10 sockets for T5+, dragons still only benefit from the 3 crystals inserted that are usable by the "ability" they enable. basically the claw is only the sockets dragons need to carry around, because their abilities can not be socketed as a biped tool can.
Correct. Like a biped only benefits from the crystals/cogs inserted in the tool he/she has equipped.

so if a tool claw had 10 sockets and you added gatherer cog, lairshapers cog, spellcrafters cog, power, dex, focus, strength and so on.. the ones not needed by the ability enabled by the dragon (/ or the currently used skill by a biped) are null, until they switch abilities. just as a bipeds crystals are changed when they switch to a different tool.
Comparing the use of a dragon ability with the bipeds need to switch tools seems to me not to be quite the same: a dragon ability + tool claw + 3 sockets/crystals (4 items) switching to another ability with the same tool claw and sockets is still the same 4 items.
A biped tool with 3 sockets/crystals (4 items) switching to another 3-socketed tool = another 4 items, so 8 items needed in total.

so say they enable the essence harvesting ability, the following crystals would be the only ones in use at that time: gatherer's cog, power crystal and what's the 3rd one? focus? no other crystals installed in the tool claw would be in effect. Then why would they have all be installed in the same one tool claw??
If you want to compare it to bipeds then I believe you would need 1 (3 socketed) tool claw for every 1 dragon ability (or maybe per 2 abilities),

it would be a waste of time to try and use it as a weapon claw. so that factor remains out of the question, since dragon tool claw can only accept tool crystals and cogs (same as a biped tool). and can only access and use the cog and crystals for that ability the dragon has enabled at that time. Then why more sockets/crystals than can be accessed at that time?

bipeds on the other hand, have 3 with them, already embedded into their tools. and when they switch tools the crystals are changed by what they installed in their next tool. So.... if a dragon switches ability they also switch tool claw with the then needed crystal/cogs already embedded into their tool claw so the crystals are changed by what they installed in their next tool claw.

dragons weren't originally designed to have a need to carry tools. and the claw was created so they could use crystals and cogs, same as a biped can. but dragons needed a seperate way to do this. hence the introduction of the tool claw.
So, what you are basically asking for is a super-duper tool claw into which you can install as many sockets/crystals/cogs (and techs too?) as a dragon could possibly need with any and every ability he/she/it has??? Just one tool claw for everything??
How many abilities does a dragon have? (I don't know, but far less than a biped has skills/tools) Let's say 10 abilities (sorry if I'm wrong about the amount), that would be 1 tool claw + 10 sockets/crystals/cogs = 11 items for everything for crafting??
A biped can have up to some 40 skills, each with their own tool = 40 x 4 items = a total of 160 items!
How does that compare to what bipeds have to carry around or keep in vault in terms of item count?

the only thing making it limited to 3 sockets does, is revert the dragons to needing tools on top of the fact that they were designed with abilities, to prevent them from needing to carry the extra items.
Are dragons too weak to carry around some extra tool claws?
Bipeds can carry around their tools....

i hope this brings a better understanding to those who are confused, and think that having a tool claw with more than 1, 2 or even 3 sockets is either overpowering a dragon, or giving them some sort of bonus a biped does not have. because that is clearly not the case, and is the main reason i can not see, why the devs are giving us such a hard time about one claw with 4 sockets. as i said, if it could hold 10 sockets, it still would work the same way.
Seeing the above......(<snip> or giving them some sort of bonus a biped does not have.) What do you think?

it is not a 4 socketed tool, it is only a glove (so to speak) that carries the same socketing effects biped tools already have permanently enbedded. please keep that in mind.
So a dragon will just need more tool claws (or "gloves") to carry "<snip> "the same socketing effects biped tools already have permanently enbedded. please keep that in mind."

i hope this clears up a lot of confusion, though i fear it might just create more... and sorry for the length of this post
So do I !!

*The above seen from a biped's point of view.....*

[Mensar]

They easily could have just been unaware, which if they were, they weren't lying, they were just misinformed.

Then they should have vetted their source before using it as a fact to waggle a finger at the devs... (who know it doesn't exist anyway) and cause more drama.

Now.. to weigh in on the actual discussion:

***********STOP THE MADNESS!!!!!**************

T6 claw/T5 claw the only real difference is the number of sockets: True

What will we put in those sockets?
1 - cog
2 - supporting stat crystal
3 - either another supporting stat crystal or holding crystal
4 - potentially the leftover crystal from 3.

But what do I see when people use their crafting crystals?
3 Cogs!

Why would you use 3 Cogs instead of the more efficient and bonus giving set up above?

Because we don't NEED stat crystals in the claws to get to 4:1 on T6 (3:1 on Adamantium.. our one vice).

So WHY is everyone upset about not getting an extra socket on the crafting claw?

Because we're LAZY. Hey, I said WE. I did the same thing. I have all 3 dragon cogs in my T6 claw and a holding crystal.

It's just nice to not have to worry about switching crystals.

Having said that.. am I going to really complain if I have to go back to using my T5 claw with only 3 sockets?

No, know why?

Because it irks the hell out of me to have to put on my set of mining scales just to equip it in the first place! If this thread hadn't started, I was ready to bug it for having such a high requirement for skill (100 DCRA and 100 DLSH dragons can't just pick this up and put it on even with maxed strength). Wouldn't I have looked silly?

Anyway.. let it go.

If we get dragon breath, great. If we got a capacity boost with it (much more useful) then that's even better.

But for those of you that already have it (and let's be honest here.. that would be pretty much everyone) it's not like they are taking it away.

My two cents.

[Finkledbody]

i think a lot of the problem and concerns about this socketing issue is due to a major misconception as to what a tool claw really is, and does for a dragon.

this misconception seems to be party to both some players and the Devs themselves, forgetting what and why this item was added in the first place. it is nothing to do with a balancing issue. please bear with me while i try to explain the miconception and it's practical use as well.

to start: the dragon tool claw is "not" a dragon tool. the most common miconception i see going on here.

now lets see if i can make this a bit more clear: bipeds get a tool and socket it 3 times. in this case lets say a smelting tong (this may not be correct in setup, but it's just for a quick example) in those 3 sockets they can add the necessary crystals such as power/str and a cog that adds smelting. now everytime they pick up that tool, those crystals are always there, and in use.
Fail.
now look at a dragon: they do not have tools like smelting tongs that can take sockets. dragons instead, have abilities which can "not" be socketed. hence the tool claw (it add no bonus to the craft) but here we socket the claw and that is a dragons only way to use the same crystal/cog functions as the permanent ones in the biped smelting tongs.
Double Fail.
now whether the tool claw has 3 sockets or 10 sockets for T5+, dragons still only benefit from the 3 crystals inserted that are usable by the "ability" they enable. basically the claw is only the sockets dragons need to carry around, because their abilities can not be socketed as a biped tool can.
Triple Fail.
so if a tool claw had 10 sockets and you added gatherer cog, lairshapers cog, spellcrafters cog, power, dex, focus, strength and so on.. the ones not needed by the ability enabled by the dragon are null, until they switch abilities. just as a bipeds crystals are changed when they switch to a different tool.
Quad Fail.
so say they enable the essence harvesting ability, the following crystals would be the only ones in use at that time: gatherer's cog, power crystal and what's the 3rd one? focus? no other crystals installed in the tool claw would be in effect.
Fail.... #5
it would be a waste of time to try and use it as a weapon claw. so that factor remains out of the question, since dragon tool claw can only accept tool crystals and cogs. and can only access and use the cog and crystals for that ability the dragon has enabled at that time.

bipeds on the other hand, have 3 with them, already embedded into their tools. and when they switch tools the crystals are changed by what they installed in their next tool.
Fail... #6
dragons weren't originally designed to have a need to carry tools. and the claw was created so they could use crystals and cogs, same as a biped can. but dragons needed a seperate way to do this. hence the introduction of the tool claw.
Fail... #7
the only thing making it limited to 3 sockets does, is revert the dragons to needing tools on top of the fact that they were designed with abilities, to prevent them from needing to carry the extra items.

i hope this brings a better understanding to those who are confused, and think that having a tool claw with more than 1, 2 or even 3 sockets is either overpowering a dragon, or giving them some sort of bonus a biped does not have. because that is clearly not the case, and is the main reason i can not see, why the devs are giving us such a hard time about one claw with 4 sockets. as i said, if it could hold 10 sockets, it still would work the same way.
Fail.. #8
it is not a 4 socketed tool, it is only a glove (so to speak) that carries the same socketing effects biped tools already have permanently enbedded. please keep that in mind.

i hope this clears up a lot of confusion, though i fear it might just create more... and sorry for the length of this post

This is by far THE MOST epicly failed post ever...
(I nominate this post for some kind of reward in the fail department if their is one.)

EVERYTHING you just said in this post works for a ped also.

Do you think we want 50 tools in our vault? nope!

And just so you know, even with 3 sockets in a tool its not enough..
1 sockets: cog
2 sockets: carrying crystal
3 sockets: str, focus, dext, etc. (lets remember, each crafting ability can utilize more then one type.. thus requires more sockets!!)
4 sockets: movement crystals!!
5 sockets: wards/resistences
6 socket: armor, health crystals? (some people NEED these)

I know you don't see the point still cause your to dead focused on having a tool claw with 15 sockets and giving dragons jewelry so that way ya'll can 1 swipe SoG.. but for real, re-read all that crap you just posted and realize...

All that goes both ways! ha, ha, ha.. ha.... ha.

Peds need to change out crystals waaaaaaaaaaaay more then dragons have to. Peds have waay more to deal with and waay more to remember.

[AmonGwareth]

Based upon feedback, we've changed Dragon Breath on the Prototype Tool Claw to Armor and we've lowered the requirements to use to reflect the rate at which Dragons acquire Mining and Quarrying.

Oh and lets please keep this discussion civil or I will delete the entire thread.

[Northwind]

Northwind, you are mistaken in that the claws should have a skill cap (along the lines of biped tools). The "Tool Claw" isn't really a "tool". The ONLY thing the claws are for is for tech slots/crystal sockets. The Dragon's "Tool", is an Ability, magical in nature. The Claw slot was added so that Dragons could finally use some of the weapon crystals that bipeds had all along, especially the nicer ones like the Pulsing and Sugent stones. I'm pretty sure it was me who campaigned to have a claw slot added, and the sole reason was for sockets. It made sense to also allow techs (such as T&C V). They were then later expanded into a tool claw, to allow Crafting techs to be added as well, as it was neigh impossible to get optimal on Crystalshaping for t6 without a +20 tech. Originally the tool socket was allowed on the regular "weapon" claws, but they couldnt be equipped because something about how they work on the backend made the system think no one met the requirements to use them. So they had to add the tool claw. Again, this is solely for tech slots and socket slots.

It isn't really a tool, and it should NOT be capping skill levels.

Edit: Reading through the rest of the thread, it appears others already stated what I did above.

Heh, I guess you meant to write "Amon" and not "Northwind" at the beginning of your post. I'm not the one that need to be convinced and if you check my posts you will see that I share exactly the same view. Anyway, since I play for less than a year, I really appreciate the insight on how the tool claws made their appearance in the game.

Now allow me to be blunt and go to what i actually see as the root of the problem.

I mentioned that Tool Claws don't have a skill cap only to highlight the fact that a T6 Tool Claw actually needs to have 4 sockets and be better than a T5 else there would be no incentive to use it considering the higher requirements (1000 skill).
Of course this is breaking the "patterns" mentioned by Velea and this is what is actually fueling the fire.

And i really don't see why those patterns should be valid.
Let's see what we have in terms of T6 equipment:
1 ) Biped tools are the only t6 items (only 1 tool actually exists) that have 3 tech slots (and allow 3 sockets).
2 ) We already know that T6 tool claw is designed to have 4 tech slots from the Prototype which is in game for how long already? And don't come to pretend the Prototype is a BUG. It is absolutely valid and it respects the progression of the previous Tool Claw in terms of both requirements and benefits.
3) T6 repaired weapons for bipeds have 5 tech slots (3 embedded under the form of bonuses to skill/stats and 2 open so players can add their favorite techs/sockets)
4) T6 repaired necklace has 5 tech slots too (4 embedded and one open that can be used for a socket)
5) T6 repaired rings/earrings have 5 slots too (4 embedded and one open to add a tech at creation)

Now where is the pattern? What is creating that pattern you mention, Velea?
The Fact that Biped Tools and Dragon Tool Claws are not the same thing - it is not creating a pattern.
The fact that the only T6 biped tool (the t6 confectioner knife) is "castrated" to have only 3 sockets is not realy making a pattern.
Well, this is not as disturbing considering that bipeds can get up to 11 points per level for processing and 10 for gathering/manufacturing - augumented with the fact that they can get more bonuses on the armors/jewelry than dragons can.
Ok, so all above considered, although not entirely fair, I could live with the fact that T6 biped tools should come with only 3 sockets.

Now, since Dragon Tool Claws are not actually tools but pieces of equipment like gloves/armors used for techs/sockets, there is no pattern breaking and we can easily see that they're really meant to take 4 sockets. More over, Dragons get only 7/8 points per crafting level and they can benefit, albeit only a really small benefit, from the 4 sockets on the tool claws.

I would also expect to see T6 dragon repaired equipment (Claws, Tool Claws, Armors) having 5-6 tech slots as well.
And please - dont bring the "hard to balance" argument since it doesnt stand at all. This is not a PVP game and 60-100 more strenght or somethingelse will not change the things too much.
We will still need 10 dragons and 3-4 bipeds to attempt to get the Queen.


PS. Mensar, this discution has the potential to settle all the future T6 dragon items - so i guess it is rather important.

PS2. Please "31 gold", be as supportive as anyone else was when you were crying about your hard earned cash. As a result, devs implemented a refunding system.

[Northwind]

Based upon feedback, we've changed Dragon Breath on the Prototype Tool Claw to Armor and we've lowered the requirements to use to reflect the rate at which Dragons acquire Mining and Quarrying.

Oh and lets please keep this discussion civil or I will delete the entire thread.

Ah, I see that you settled for my "improved t5" tool claw suggestion or at least a similar one with reduced requirements.
Fair enough, Amon.

Now about the T6 Adamantium Tool Claw you mentioned yesterday? Can you give us some insight please? It will be what the Prototype was? The formula will be a dropped one? NPC merchant one?

[Mimir]

...

Peds need to change out crystals waaaaaaaaaaaay more then dragons have to. Peds have waay more to deal with and waay more to remember.

I think you just stated the obvious here.

The point was dragons would like to be able to have an equal footing with bipeds. A change to a claw that would only help cut down on the number of claws in a vault.

I'm not sure why you are so anti-dragon it it really does come across in many of your posts. Was a dragon mean to you when you started playing?

[AmonGwareth]

Now about the T6 Adamantium Tool Claw you mentioned yesterday? Can you give us some insight please? It will be what the Prototype was? The formula will be a dropped one? NPC merchant one?

3 tech slots, no stat cap, formula is purchased.

[Northwind]

And how it will be different than the T5 one?

[AmonGwareth]

And how it will be different than the T5 one?

Tier5 has a stat cap and only allows Tier5 techs.

Having a Tier6 tool allows us to begin releasing techs for those.

[Northwind]

Come on, tell us all please.
What stat cap?

[Hoberton]

Having a Tier6 tool allows us to begin releasing techs for those.

So... T6 techs are going to be released soon for everything?

[AmonGwareth]

Come on, tell us all please.
What stat cap?

Dragon Tool Claws will now have a stat cap for Lairshaping, Scalecrafting and Spellcrafting of 250, 390, 530, 670, and 810.

So... T6 techs are going to be released soon for everything?

They are released as needed. They're all made (have been for years), just a matter of creating the formulas and adding them in.

In some cases it hasn't made sense with no (or few) Tier 6 techniques.

[Hoberton]

Dragon Tool Claws will now have a stat cap for Lairshaping, Scalecrafting and Spellcrafting of 250, 390, 530, 670, and 810.



They are released as needed. They're all made (have been for years), just a matter of creating the formulas and adding them in.

In some cases it hasn't made sense with no (or few) Tier 6 techniques.

May be wrong but I think you meant items (tools, armor and weapons). and a follow up, craftable T6 Tools, Armor, and Weapons being released also in near future?

[AmonGwareth]

May be wrong but I think you meant items (tools, armor and weapons). and a follow up, T6 Tools, Armor, and Weapons being released also in near future?

No, I meant what I said. And no, we aren't releasing Tier6 Armor and Weapons any time soon (even though they are all made as well).

[Northwind]

Dragon Tool Claws will now have a stat cap for Lairshaping, Scalecrafting and Spellcrafting of 250, 390, 530, 670, and 810.

Preposterous. This is a joke, isn't it?

I see that you are actually out to get the dragons - and only because you don't want to put 4 tech slots on T6 tool claws.
So be it, don't put them - but give T6 techs instead and leave the Tool claws as they were - without caps as they were since introduction.


PS. You actually do know that the caps are applied by the equivalent casted abilities that dragons are using to craft?
Everyone is aware of that except the dev team apparently.
Will you add caps to Dragon armors too? Because the Tool claws are closer to an armor piece than to a biped tool.

[Mimir]

Preposterous. This is a joke, isn't it?

I see that you are actually out to get the dragons - ...

I don't think they are out to get dragons as they use them to draw in new players. One would hope that new players coming into the game would not be dissuaded from continuing to play it though.

A happy dragon is a yappy dragon and will continue to be a draw for others to come play.

I do have a question or two. Can a dragon play on a free account? Bipeds can I'm pretty sure. So wouldn't it make sense to keep the dragons happy and yappy?