just a thread suggestion

[terrox]

With all these changes to biped's adventure classes and all the threads about them on talk to the team . When is the thread appear on Talk to the team to talk about Dragon and to make them more true to mythology and less invincible and godlike ? If these changes ( nerfs ) are good for bipeds than they can be good enough for dragons

[Arzel Rashemi]

Do we really need another biped vs. dragon thread?

[terrox]

This is not a biped vs dragon Thread . and I am not meaning that . most my friends are Dragons and they have been a livetime research hooby of mine . but a thread can get both the changes some of them keep saying they would like !

[AmonGwareth]

I'd certainly be open to suggestions, but we've discussed at length with players what can be done with Dragons many times over the last several years. Sadly the single school is very limiting and the inability to alter certain abilities is also very limiting. But, feel free to throw out suggestions and discuss it with everyone.

[EsmarnMcshipley]

was suggested by terrox to check out this thread, and after reading it over, while i cannot agree with everything thats been said, there is one big thing that strikes me as worthwhile: RoP/Ancient RoP needing adjusting so PL'ing hatchies isnt the norm anymore, hatchies should have to work for their RoP at least SOME and just getting Adventure/Craft to 30 or so each isnt much work considering the REAL work is done by high-level bipeds or dragons while the hatchie practically just lounges around in these cases

i think making Adventure/Craft needed to be lvl 50 each for hatchies to do RoP is somewhat reasonable, and also requiring hatchies to have done some of their quests to start or continue with RoP might be good, itll also help the hatchie depending on what quests would be required to be completed, for example adventure or craft quests from the trainers in Chiconis/Dralk for Dragons could not only allow the hatchie to have new/better combat or craft prowess, but also help with levelling adventure/craft in the process making it a bit less grindy to hit 50 adventure/craft

[Alisto]

This is not a biped vs dragon Thread

If these changes ( nerfs ) are good for bipeds than they can be good enough for dragons

Could quite easily be read as, "Bipeds are getting nerfs so why can't dragons be nerfed too?"

Handing out 'nerfs' to dragons just because bipeds are getting some seems like a really shaky reason for doing it.

[EsmarnMcshipley]

edit: nevermind

[Arzel Rashemi]

This is not a biped vs dragon Thread . and I am not meaning that . most my friends are Dragons and they have been a livetime research hooby of mine . but a thread can get both the changes some of them keep saying they would like !

make them more true to mythology and less invincible and godlike

The only way in which I can think of a dragon being invincible and godlike is in the amount of DP they tend to rack up when faced with things like carrion crawlers, and anything with a multi-strike. Yes, I admit, my dragon is god of DP. It comes with the dragon, and I'd like to think of it as a thing of charm rather than a hinderance, really.

Researching a class isn't the same as playing it. I'm inclined to agree with alisto's post based on this:

If these changes ( nerfs ) are good for bipeds than they can be good enough for dragons

That pretty much says to me that this is a biped vs. dragon thread rather than a discusson on changes to dragons, of which there has been one started about a very recent nerf/change to dragons which has had no response from devs.

I'm also inclined to agree with Amon. The whole issue of dragon abilities and all was discussed before in threads over the years, and its a very limited thing with regards to balance in the single school. Now if dragons had multi adventure schools then things might be different, but that isn't going to happen. Its reasons are covered here.

Alisto, my dear friend, all i have to say is that my agreement with your view is mixed. While I agree that when people who don't play dragons look at a dragon and all they see is the GR without thought given to the other complexities within our rather limited single school, I disagree that changing GR is going to be a good solution to that. GR was discussed in changes earlier and there's no way the majority of dragon players want GR touched. If they change GR, then there would be issues that would need to be dealt with and rectified between the different builds of dragon in that one single school. Something which is more impossible than possible to do. It brings up a whole subject that's all been covered in this thread.

All the changes and everything that could possibly be discussed for dragons has been done before, backwards, forwards, and sideways even. Because dragons have a single adventure school there is only so much discussion that can take place to cover it all. If dragons had multiple classes then the discussions would have to cover more as there would be more schools to cover.

[EsmarnMcshipley]

in istaria theres never been such a thing as an invincible player who cant be beat, biped OR dragon, so terrox has a point there

edit: and yes, aleron, alot of people seem to have misinterpreted what terrox was intending this thread to be about

[terrox]

and again Cilok this post was your chance to speak up against changes that could hurt dragons but I guess we now know what type of dragon you are

[Cilok]

and again Cilok this post was your chance to speak up against changes that could hurt dragons but I guess we now know what type of dragon you are

No, this post was you whining that bipeds were getting nerfs and you wanted to see dragons get nerfs too. That's all you said in the OP. I only spoke up against the breath attack change you proposed because (1) no one else talked about it, and (2) others said everything I had to say about the other ideas proposed.

Now, since you have admitted to having no real experience with a dragon, kindly stop pressing for dragon changes to be discussed since nothing you say can be taken seriously due to an extreme lack of knowledge and prejudice against the current Istarian lore not aligning with your own personal view of what a dragon should be. If you really don't like the way the dragon lore is developed in this game, you have 2 choices: (1) don't play a dragon, or (2) quit Istaria and make your own game with the preconceived dragon lore you came in here with that has clouded your judgment and ability to appreciate the effort taken by the devs to create an MMO with some of the richest history and most cohesive story I have seen in the genre.

[Northwind]

@Steelclaw - i guess vets are just fed with the requests "i just got lvl 30 adv and 25 crafting, so now help me get my wings and do the rop for me" followed by various questions put by lvl 100 dragons that denote sheer ignorance of the class due to the fact that they were powerleveled all the way, rop included.

I just simply ignored such requests, but i have to admit that i would kinda like to see RoP requirement level increased to 50.

Regarding this thread: i hate nerfs as much as anyone else and Terrox has a point - peds were kinda getting some nerfs in one way or another. Some were reverted, but only temporary.

[terrox]

so may we please see a thread under Talk to the team : Dragons

[terrox]

To all you narrowminded and asskissing dragons ( and you know who you are )that replied to this post and say I was making a biped vs dragon thread you are wrong .... It was your chance to send a message to the devs to tell them don't Screw with Dragons like you are doing with biped classes , but all you saw was your own ignorance . this might not happen due to dragon is the only toon you have to pay for and can't ghave a free account. I am sure I am now banned from forums for good . and FYI I have had 2 dragon accounts and have cancelled them in a week cause I found they were boring and they disgraced the lore of a dragon and made them weak

[Cilok]

and FYI I have had 2 dragon accounts and have cancelled them in a week cause I found they were boring and they disgraced the lore of a dragon and made them weak

Only thing you posted worth replying to is bolded above. I'll say it again, these are Istarian dragons with their own lore, NOT your traditional dragons of legend that you researched. If you were so close-minded to not even consider learning the lore of the dragon race in Istaria, that is your loss, but don't start proposing major changes that break dragons and go against the established lore in the game itself (the only lore that matters in this case).

[hallucin8]

To all you narrowminded and asskissing dragons... It was your chance to send a message to the devs to tell them don't Screw with Dragons

Oh wow.. just wow...

Your original post offers nothing more than a whinge, no suggestion, no positive comments, just a smart-alecky whine. So yes, people jumped at you for it and read it as biped V dragon, cause that's all you said. It just sounds like you're being sarcastic.

In all the last 10 years, I've only ever seen improvements to dragons. Aside from some changes mentioned elsewhere, they have only ever gotten stronger, just not in the ways some might have liked.

So if you actually have a point to make, or a suggestion, just say it and move on.

[Alisto]

Ohh *throws suggestion(s) around*


The main think I'd like to see is the damage moved around. I (as a dragon) don't want the vast majority of my damage coming from gold rage. Sitting there and clicking one button forever and ever is not fun. I'd like to see gold rage get a damage decrease and other abilities get an increase to compensate.

The problem, I think, is that Gold Rage hits so hard and then that is all people see. They don't see our other abilities doing terrible (please keep in mind I've not mentioned any specific abilities besides gold rage. Dragon's do have some abilities that are ok damage-wise).

[terrox]

suggestion 1 .. Get rid of hoard on a dragon for combat . A dragon's Rage was fueled by his / hers hatred of other living beings and their distrust and grew as they grew older and meaner
PS hoard was used more by bipeds for combat to buy new weapons and to fund better armies and defensives..why not put a monetary value on hoard also .

suggestion 2 Dragon's breath Thru lore dragons only ever had 1 type of breath weapon ( except for Hydras) . Have a dragon at creation decide what type of dragon they want to be and have their breath weapon grow as they grow to the point that they are a force to deal with ( burning down a village with 1 breath )

suggestion 3 Rop like many I aqm growing tired of all the complaining over if powerleveling is right or wrong . you have set a level a dragon must be at before they can start their Rop .. why not do the same thing but set it for their quests ( adventure and craft ) . this way they must also have finished certain quests also before being allowed to start their Rop

these are just my opinions and I mean no disrespect to my dragon friends or other dragons .. I welcome your replies

[Hoberton]

these are just my opinions and I mean no disrespect to my dragon friends or other dragons .. I welcome your replies

I like your suggestions, terrox. A couple of my own:

Put counters on most that is required for RoP and ARoP. This way the only way a Dragon can actual do either is complete them on their own without someone else powerleveling them through the entire ritual.

Make hoard attuned to the Dragons that battles and loots the mob by themselves, (No more free handouts).

[Radamanthas]

<snip>

Make hoard attuned to the Dragons that battles and loots the mob by themselves, (No more free handouts).

I like this idea, but haven't been able to figure a way around preventing an ancient from grouping a hatchling and allowing the hatchie to loot the hoard from T5-T6 mobs.

What I would ultimately like to see, regarding RoP and ARoP is stricter requirements for both. Perhaps something like the following...

For RoP (both Lunus and Helian):

Adventure Level = 50
Crafting OR Lairshaping Level = 50
(Attuned) Hoard = 1,000,000

For ARoP (Helian and Lunus):

Adventure Level = 100
Crafting OR Lairshaping Level = 100
(Attuned) Hoard = 25,000,000

this would both a) make the new dragon actually work for adulthood, and b) keep their hoard on par with required level to maintain full armor bonus...

But like I said...trick would be in finding a way to guaranteed that the hatchie would have to get/loot the hoard by themselves...

My 2 sheckals....