Volcano Questline Needs Toning Down.

[Machaeon]

Okay to start off with the egg sacs have a major problem: they have WAY too much health for any single player to handle, especially with the ever constant threat of a mob of mylocs rushing in and/or the Heirophants healing them. Took a good 5 or six of us to handle them one at a time while also tackling the random swarms of mylocs rushing our way every now and then.

I do agree, the egg sacs were WAY too easy before they got a health boost. A single tap shouldn't take out one. But it should absolutely not require a group to take out one when ten are required... and when they're not the end boss of the quest line.


Secondly with a large group of competent players, we were unable to take down Shaloth in two hours' time. And we were hitting hard. Every time, without fail, we got her down below 1/4 health a Heirophant would heal her back up to 3/4 health. At first we didn't have a full group so we of course filled the group... still no change in the effect it had. We all were cycling through the nearest enemies trying to prevent the Heirophants from doing what they do. Problem is they healed BEFORE we could even select them. Every time they spawned. Had one biped player strictly on lookout and using all the stuns and mezzes they had to try to catch even ONE Heirophant before they healed. Nope, didn't work.


It wasn't always like this, I've been in groups that took her down before. With a group of 5 even. (Once even helped take her down before I got Galderos' Heart by taking out the adds for the group.) Before anyone says anything about the GR change, let me be absolutely clear: I definitely do not want to point the finger at the GR change, we had no trouble getting her health down, the problem was the Heirophants. Everything we did to work around them and prevent their action was futile.

Action is required on this. Full groups are hard to come by in Istaria, especially hard on Order. If a full group can't take her down, something is wrong.

[Calyndrell]

Okay to start off with the egg sacs have a major problem: they have WAY too much health for any single player to handle, especially with the ever constant threat of a mob of mylocs rushing in and/or the Heirophants healing them. Took a good 5 or six of us to handle them one at a time while also tackling the random swarms of mylocs rushing our way every now and then.

I do agree, the egg sacs were WAY too easy before they got a health boost. A single tap shouldn't take out one. But it should absolutely not require a group to take out one when ten are required... and when they're not the end boss of the quest line.


Secondly with a large group of competent players, we were unable to take down Shaloth in two hours' time. And we were hitting hard. Every time, without fail, we got her down below 1/4 health a Heirophant would heal her back up to 3/4 health. At first we didn't have a full group so we of course filled the group... still no change in the effect it had. We all were cycling through the nearest enemies trying to prevent the Heirophants from doing what they do. Problem is they healed BEFORE we could even select them. Every time they spawned. Had one biped player strictly on lookout and using all the stuns and mezzes they had to try to catch even ONE Heirophant before they healed. Nope, didn't work.


It wasn't always like this, I've been in groups that took her down before. With a group of 5 even. (Once even helped take her down before I got Galderos' Heart by taking out the adds for the group.) Before anyone says anything about the GR change, let me be absolutely clear: I definitely do not want to point the finger at the GR change, we had no trouble getting her health down, the problem was the Heirophants. Everything we did to work around them and prevent their action was futile.

Action is required on this. Full groups are hard to come by in Istaria, especially hard on Order. If a full group can't take her down, something is wrong.

I can second this as the healer of the group in question it was crazy something needs to be done.. we literally saw 250-500k instant heals...if they 5k heals a second that would be handlable.. but this wasn't

[Racktor]

As one of the people in the group I can attest to this. Her health went down steadily and we could beat her back down. We didn't die much (well except one group member, but he had very little health) overall. It wasn't our DPS or survivability that was the problem - we would have been very successful if it wasn't for the Hierophants healing before we even have a chance to counter. :/

I wasn't there for the egg part but the fact that they needed a nearly full group to kill eggs is enough for me to agree to that myself. I was on my way to help but they finished before I got there. I'd say it took 3-7 minutes to kill a single egg with something like 5-8 people.

[Litarath]

Okay to start off with the egg sacs have a major problem: they have WAY too much health for any single player to handle, especially with the ever constant threat of a mob of mylocs rushing in and/or the Heirophants healing them. Took a good 5 or six of us to handle them one at a time while also tackling the random swarms of mylocs rushing our way every now and then.

I do agree, the egg sacs were WAY too easy before they got a health boost. A single tap shouldn't take out one. But it should absolutely not require a group to take out one when ten are required... and when they're not the end boss of the quest line.


Secondly with a large group of competent players, we were unable to take down Shaloth in two hours' time. And we were hitting hard. Every time, without fail, we got her down below 1/4 health a Heirophant would heal her back up to 3/4 health. At first we didn't have a full group so we of course filled the group... still no change in the effect it had. We all were cycling through the nearest enemies trying to prevent the Heirophants from doing what they do. Problem is they healed BEFORE we could even select them. Every time they spawned. Had one biped player strictly on lookout and using all the stuns and mezzes they had to try to catch even ONE Heirophant before they healed. Nope, didn't work.


It wasn't always like this, I've been in groups that took her down before. With a group of 5 even. (Once even helped take her down before I got Galderos' Heart by taking out the adds for the group.) Before anyone says anything about the GR change, let me be absolutely clear: I definitely do not want to point the finger at the GR change, we had no trouble getting her health down, the problem was the Heirophants. Everything we did to work around them and prevent their action was futile.

Action is required on this. Full groups are hard to come by in Istaria, especially hard on Order. If a full group can't take her down, something is wrong.

Istaria team, I would point out that I was playing in this battle as a Sorceror and I was the one locking down the enemies with all available stuns and mezzes.

This particular fight points out a few glaringly obvious problems.

First off, as a Sorceror, with most of my mezzes lasting only a very short time (30 secs) it made it very difficult for me to maintain control of the hordes of enemies. I recall pointing this out as a problem before in a ticket as well as a 'talk to the team' post about changes to the Sorceror class.

Secondly, area bind and spellbind are instant cast mezzes, yet, when I cast them, the 'Heroes' and Harbingers STILL got their heals off, as if they were a blood mage's 'instant transfer'.

Thirdly, the amount healed by the 'heroes' and harbingers was far higher than even our team that had at least six dragons dealing a very respectable amount of damage, even with the Gold Rage changes, could out damage. Like Machaeon, I have no troubles with the Gold Rage changes, but I DO have serious troubles with the impossible amount of healing power Shaloth's minions have and the fact that they can instantly cast it upon spawn, faster than my instant mezzes.

As some other posters said, we could get her HP down, but we just couldn't compete against those heals.


Finally, the HP of the eggs is also a point that really needs to be addressed. I'm not even sure how an 'egg' itself could have more HP than a regular myloc veteran or gatherer and they aren't even born yet! This is an issue that needs to be fixed.

[Arzel Rashemi]

As a person in both groups this also I can attest to.

We had the queen mez/stunned much of the time. Her adds were stunned/mez'd as well by a biped and two dragons using tail-whip, and they were taken down in around five to eight seconds flat. Even stunned/mez'd they managed to somehow get a 250-500k heal off before dying. And healing is the first thing they did even before self buffing or anything else. I'm in agreement with Macheon, in that I have no issues what so ever with the GR changes. Even with the old 15 second GR, (which missed alot in the hands of a well equipped melee/hybrid dragon) theres no way a party could keep up with that.

In addition, the eggs having 125000 hp, and being healed for over 25k by the hierophants that move around the egg chamber, plus the massive groups of mobs that move through the area constantly is just impossible for anything but a near full group of players to accomplish. It was too easy before leaving them as a one hit kill for certain, but 125000 hp is too much! There were four experienced and well geared high rating bipeds down there trying to kill those eggs (boardering on 1000 rating together) for around an hour and they couldn't even manage to kill one egg. It wasn't until the first of the dragons arrived to help that the group managed to accomplish killing the first egg and heading towards finishing that part of the quest. That's supposed to be a step of the quest leading up to the epic boss, it shouldn't be so difficult that it is the equivalent of taking on the epic boss.

When it takes a full party to deal with just a part of a quest that is supposed to be leading up to the epic, then i have issues with it. When its impossible to kill the boss with a full party after two and a half hours, then I have an issue with it. If being perma stunned is not fun for players, and mashing away at one button all the time is not fun for players, i can put this directly in the same basket as an unbeatable boss with a full party is not fun for players.

By buffing up the eggs as much as this and the mylocs heals, all that was accomplished was frustrating experienced players like myself who have done these queen fights over and over and over again, and demoralized the players who were trying to get their volcano spells.

[Guaran]

You might just adjust your tactics. (I think the quest is fine, unless she got some crazy boost in the last update).

The big heals from heirophants is the way it has always been. It's annoying for sure, but it is part of her challenge.

A single sorc will have a tough time on the adds. And if your group is using aoe's (breaking mezzes) then the scenario you describe will happen over and over, she will be impossible to kill. The whole group has to be on the same page to be successful.

Instruct all players, no aoes. that means no bofb, no epic spells, being careful with druid spells (some are aoe).

Pull her to the back wall, you've got to avoid the roaming mylocs.

If you've got 2 sorcerers, you can all stay on queen, no aoe's, keep the adds mezzed the whole time. I've done it this way before. sorc need to use the aoe mezz centered on queen. players all have to be in a pile on queen as well for this method to work, or the aoe mezz misses a few heirophants. No one can be standing off to the side. Heirophant aggro will be spread around, and the aoe mezz will miss one.

Last time I killed queen, was my healer, my melee ped, and another dragon. (me dual boxing plus the guy I was helping). Took us about 15 minutes. That was probably 6 weeks ago. Haven't gotten around to trying her recently.

I didn't use sorc, i used druid stuns when a heirphant would spawn. the dragon switched to heirophants and took em out soon as they spawned. We had to fight thru 2 or 3 couple hundred k heals. That's typical for a queen fight. If you use a sorc, they need to have high mind skill.

Re-think your tactics and go again.

[Machaeon]

You might just adjust your tactics. (I think the quest is fine, unless she got some crazy boost in the last update).

The big heals from heirophants is the way it has always been. It's annoying for sure, but it is part of her challenge.

A single sorc will have a tough time on the adds. And if your group is using aoe's (breaking mezzes) then the scenario you describe will happen over and over, she will be impossible to kill. The whole group has to be on the same page to be successful.

Instruct all players, no aoes. that means no bofb, no epic spells, being careful with druid spells (some are aoe).

Pull her to the back wall, you've got to avoid the roaming mylocs.

If you've got 2 sorcerers, you can all stay on queen, no aoe's, keep the adds mezzed the whole time. I've done it this way before. sorc need to use the aoe mezz centered on queen. players all have to be in a pile on queen as well for this method to work, or the aoe mezz misses a few heirophants. No one can be standing off to the side. Heirophant aggro will be spread around, and the aoe mezz will miss one.

Last time I killed queen, was my healer, my melee ped, and another dragon. (me dual boxing plus the guy I was helping). Took us about 15 minutes. That was probably 6 weeks ago. Haven't gotten around to trying her recently.

I didn't use sorc, i used druid stuns when a heirphant would spawn. the dragon switched to heirophants and took em out soon as they spawned. We had to fight thru 2 or 3 couple hundred k heals. That's typical for a queen fight. If you use a sorc, they need to have high mind skill.

Re-think your tactics and go again.

Our tactics are what have always worked up until now, we pulled her to the back wall to avoid pulling any adds as you said. In most groups I've been in that have taken her down we were without a sorcerer to mezz/stun so we were required to use AoEs to take out the adds quickly and effectively. Four dragons (including myself) and one healer was the composition of the group of 5 that took her down. AoEs were not a problem there, they are a part of what made us successful.

The major problem was that the Heirophants healed the instant they spawned before we could even select them. The first thing they did was heal, they only applied self buffs after they healed. Even when one did get stunned, they had already got their heal out so the stun was effectively pointless. If we could have prevented their heals we would have likely won the fight but the fact that they healed the queen the instant they spawned before they even showed up to be selected made any kind of prevention impossible.

[Arzel Rashemi]

You might just adjust your tactics. (I think the quest is fine, unless she got some crazy boost in the last update).

Our tactics are fine. Go try her now, 6 weeks ago was before the delta. Before the delta she worked fine.

The big heals from heirophants is the way it has always been. It's annoying for sure, but it is part of her challenge.

A single sorc will have a tough time on the adds. And if your group is using aoe's (breaking mezzes) then the scenario you describe will happen over and over, she will be impossible to kill. The whole group has to be on the same page to be successful.

Secondly, area bind and spellbind are instant cast mezzes, yet, when I cast them, the 'Heroes' and Harbingers STILL got their heals off, as if they were a blood mage's 'instant transfer'.

Instruct all players, no aoes. that means no bofb, no epic spells, being careful with druid spells (some are aoe).

Pull her to the back wall, you've got to avoid the roaming mylocs.

Secondly with a large group of competent players,

experienced players like myself who have done these queen fights over and over and over again,

[Litarath]

You might just adjust your tactics. (I think the quest is fine, unless she got some crazy boost in the last update).

A single sorc will have a tough time on the adds. And if your group is using aoe's (breaking mezzes) then the scenario you describe will happen over and over, she will be impossible to kill. The whole group has to be on the same page to be successful.

First, the group already knew I was spellbinding the enemies, so they didn't use their AoEs right away, but they did attack single mylocs to kill them before the mezzes wore off, for the most part, but that doesn't change the fact that they healed the queen instantly before my own instant mezzes. Not only that, I'm the ONLY Sorceror on server, so getting another Sorceror is quite impossible.

Pull her to the back wall, you've got to avoid the roaming mylocs.

She was quite pinned there, and I was rooting her with binding crystals anyhow, so she could move if she wanted to.

If you've got 2 sorcerers, you can all stay on queen, no aoe's, keep the adds mezzed the whole time. I've done it this way before. sorc need to use the aoe mezz centered on queen. players all have to be in a pile on queen as well for this method to work, or the aoe mezz misses a few heirophants. No one can be standing off to the side. Heirophant aggro will be spread around, and the aoe mezz will miss one.

Refer to a previous comment... I'm the ONLY player on Order Server that plays Sorceror, so getting another one is impossible.

Last time I killed queen, was my healer, my melee ped, and another dragon. (me dual boxing plus the guy I was helping). Took us about 15 minutes. That was probably 6 weeks ago. Haven't gotten around to trying her recently.

I didn't use sorc, i used druid stuns when a heirphant would spawn. the dragon switched to heirophants and took em out soon as they spawned. We had to fight thru 2 or 3 couple hundred k heals. That's typical for a queen fight. If you use a sorc, they need to have high mind skill.

Re-think your tactics and go again.

As another person said, that was before the delta, so that is irrelevant now. We are talking about how things are NOW not six weeks ago.

Further, my Sorceror does have very high mind skill and she didn't really have any problems with mezzing them. The problem is with how they can instantly cast a ridiculously high powered heal, while they are still spawning. Even if there was another Sorceror we could have invited, it is hard to 'instant'ly mez something when they can cast a heal before they are even fully spawned.

Lastly, by all means, feel free to try what you did 'six weeks ago', again.

'You might adjust your tactics' and 're-think your tactics' doesn't really help or offer any constructive points.

No offense intended, but this...

Last time I killed queen, was my healer, my melee ped, and another dragon. (me dual boxing plus the guy I was helping). Took us about 15 minutes. That was probably 6 weeks ago.

Sounds a bit arrogant and self-righteous, as if you were placing yourself above others and suggesting that a full team of highly experienced and skilled players is incompetent.

[hallucin8]

WOAH, me thinks some chill-pills need a little distributing. I'm pretty sure G was just offering some advice, whether it was asked for or not I'm gonna bet G wasn't there, so didn't know your tactics, or that you're all experienced hunters, nor what your party considered of.

We can all only speak from our experiences. I know that I myself have been in a number of Queen hunts, and sometimes they go your way, and other times most definitely not.

I've seen small groups with just myself as healer/CC (druid) and a few dragons have no problems, and other times a full group with 2 sorcs, 2 healers, 1 ranger and 5 dragons get wiped... not exactly common, but sometimes the RNGeesus doesn't go your way.

All I'm saying is, is it at all possible that you just had a run of bad luck, that the Mez' didn't land, that maybe someone did use the occasional ability (or tech, or something else) that was breaking the mez?

I'd be very interested in hearing how others might have gone with a Queen hunt since the delta and whether they have experienced similar issues? I think we've all seen the big-mylocs heal the Queen for a few hundred thousand, but normally the (dragon/GR) damage output will eventually overtake...

[LOVWYRM]

What Guaran and iuv say- will test on WE with friends

(btw- we have at least 4 experienced vet Sorcerers on Order 1 EU timezone 2 US eastcoast, the other I do not know- but its not my turn to out them here)

[Arzel Rashemi]

I'd be very interested in hearing how others might have gone with a Queen hunt since the delta and whether they have experienced similar issues? I think we've all seen the big-mylocs heal the Queen for a few hundred thousand, but normally the (dragon/GR) damage output will eventually overtake...

I don't mind if others -would- try it, especially before commenting on the thread. I'd welcome another near full group to try and do this. If I might point out the issue isn't just with the queen herself, but the eggs also.

This thread is here because that wasn't normal. I've been on queen hunts too where we get wiped or we just can't get her hp down. But those groups are normally made of five people or fewer. This was a full group. Yes its true sometimes your group gets wiped, but this wasn't happening here. The stuns and mez's deffo weren't missing. The GR damage was fine, and was overtaking. In fact several times we got her below a quarter health. The problem as has been stated before was her heiros were healing before they'd even fully spawned, and could be mez'd by the sorcs instants and it was the first thing they did before any other action. We literally saw her health from one heal, consistently go up a full 1/4 or slightly over on her health bar.

I'd really appreciate it before anyone comments on this groups tactics or anything else that they go try it for themselves please. Also, please don't throw the thread off topic. I know it hasn't happened yet, but I'm asking that it doesn't get thrown off topic with accusations or assumptions or advice. Once others have tested it, if you manage it, then feel free to give advice. Better yet, for my fellows on order, feel free to help the three people that needed their volcano spell last night too! They're the ones that were left most frustrated and demoralized by this.

[terrox]

i remember a time when it toke 2 full parties to kill the Queen . Now if you can't kill her with 5 players there is a problem !!!!. yes i have not tried to kill the queen in a long while and will reframe from giving advise . i have hunted with most of you on many occassions . yes I agree 125000 hp for egg scas are way to high .

Removed the personal attack

[Velea]

Thank you for posting actual feedback on this. It helps us as a design team to have something to actually consider when comparing it to the facts (the data).

We'll look into it more closely. No promises, of course, but I would suggest that those who went on these hunts copy over to Blight before the next patch so that you are prepared should changes be made.

[Korchak Strongbone]

This is exciting, a challenge it seems. So Velea you can confirm that indeed the Queen has been slightly adjusted? Don't need the details just a simple confirmation that she is different.

It would be a shame that epic spells would be handed out like candy.

We used to mess with new guys on the sacs and just have them kill them for fun and watch the mobs come running. hehe. If you're not able to handle the sac mobs all at once as a group then your probably not ready for the queen, IMHO. I do agree that 125k is pretty high for some unhatched heriophants or veteran mylocs or what have you, more around 4-5k would more realistic.

I almost have an alt ready for the quest, so I'll be looking forward to that. Killed her many times in the past, and yes sometimes there is nothing you can do. I remember once we pulled her into the sac area not sure why maybe just screaming people running for their lives and she glitched. She ran up the wall and into the ceiling and there she sat. Nobody could get her, someone tried to setscale and go up and pull her and actually managed to see her but, she wouldn't come down. Had to wait for glorious Tuesday to have her fixed.

I would try ticking off the entire cavern where she is and then pull them over to the choke and area spellbind them. then pull the queen over to the back side and have 2 dragons on standby for spawns and the rest of the group killing her.

-Kor

[Velea]

There were no adjustments to the Queen made in the last patch other than to make it so that her followers actually do follow her. That was simply a technical change in the "behind the scenes" of the system which should have no effect other than if she were to move, for example.

[Korchak Strongbone]

Perfect, thank you Velea.

-Kor

[Racktor]

Thank you for posting actual feedback on this. It helps us as a design team to have something to actually consider when comparing it to the facts (the data).

We'll look into it more closely. No promises, of course, but I would suggest that those who went on these hunts copy over to Blight before the next patch so that you are prepared should changes be made.

There were no adjustments to the Queen made in the last patch other than to make it so that her followers actually do follow her. That was simply a technical change in the "behind the scenes" of the system which should have no effect other than if she were to move, for example.

I already have a Blight copy but I'll update it just in case.

Strange that there were no real adjustments made, though. I remember fighting her with others before a while ago with a similar group, maybe another half group was there too, and she didn't heal for that much. We had no problems controlling the hierophants - they would self-buff before they healed if I recall correctly. Once their entity exists in the world now, they just heal.

i remember a time when it toke 2 full parties to kill the Queen . Now if you can't kill her with 5 players there is a problem !!!!. yes i have not tried to kill the queen in a long while and will reframe from giving advise . i have hunted with most of you on many occassions . yes I agree 125000 hp for egg scas are way to high .

It wasn't 5 players, we were a full group - so 10. We could also take her down pretty easily if we actually were able to prevent the Hierophants from healing her, which we couldn't, since they healed before we could even select them to stun/mez or kill.

In the 2 hours we fought her, we only had one half-wipe that we recovered from and retaliated. The lowest we got her was something like 200k and she was going down steadily, then went right back up to 700k or 800k before we even had a chance to prevent the Hierophants. That's what we're talking about, not that the Queen necessarily should be able to be murdered by 5 players!

Large heals for a challenge is fair and fun. Large heals you literally cannot counter because they go off before the mobs even spawn onyour screen isn't fair.

We used to mess with new guys on the sacs and just have them kill them for fun and watch the mobs come running. hehe. If you're not able to handle the sac mobs all at once as a group then your probably not ready for the queen, IMHO. I do agree that 125k is pretty high for some unhatched heriophants or veteran mylocs or what have you, more around 4-5k would more realistic.

Just want to say that the group for the egg sacs was smaller than the one for the queen. We had other people swap from dragons to peds to go for her and got more dragons on board. The egg sac group wasn't really having issues necessarily, it was just taking a stupidly long time because the hierophants would heal for so much hp.... on eggs. :P

[LOVWYRM]

ok- that is what I found out until now:
I tested twice with Lov and twice with Luna

Lov found Queen alone in cave together with a Hiero- which I was not able to seperate from Queen- it walked completely synchronously with Queen- like she was carrying it- it seemed to be inside her.
Never saw that before.
Then I logged Luna in- she found Queen together with 2 gatherers (no others inside) who reacted like I am used too.
Recalled-came back- same.
The Hiero thing was a bit strange- more testing going on on weekend

( Queen attacked when I pulled her followers which is normal- but the gatherers ran in front of her- the Hiero stuck inside her- hardly to see)

[Terao]

You can always count on me if you go hunting epics on Order, I can dualbox with two nasty dragons, or join in with Terao as Healer, Ranger or Druid. And the last time I was hunting her we had two groups, went down well.

Maybe the "little" change with the followers is now the problem as they might spawn near the Queen, past times we could pull the Queen away from adds.