Suggesting concerning the requirements to wear t6 dragon items

[Alisto]

While I hear people say that you shouldn't need 100 DCRA to wear T6 scales as Ancient and Level 100 is all that is required. I do believe that there is no way that anyone should be allowed to ascend to Ancient without 100/100 at a minimum. I do agree with you Alisto great idea.

Let's take this a little farther shall we? When a T6 scale is created let's just make them attuned. Don't want to be 100 DCRA? No problem, you won't be able to wear the T6 scales then will you? hehe

Tbh I was wondering all the time since t6 scales came out,why do they attune on equip?? t1-t5s don't...

That's a little harsh but that would get some lazybutts to work...

Another problem is with alts. I want to raise alts quick and wear the best gear. I don't want to go through lvling craft AGAIN just to wear those scales. No.

Due to what you said earlier in the thread, Salwirk, I think you might be misinterpretign what Korchak is suggesting?

Having the t6 scales attune on equip would require everyone who wanted to wear them - even alts - to have somewhere around lv80 craft - going off the wiki that says dragons get 8 dcraft skill per level, for a total of 800 at lv100. 900 with the crafting quest done, and then a little higher taking into consideration stats. My ancient has 988 dcraft naked at lv100 dcraft and the appropriate dcraft quest chain complete. The minimum requirement for crafting the scale is 1000 - which works for forelegs/chest as you don't tech those. Add two techs and you're at 1100 minimum skill. Equipping 5 t5 strength based scales gets me to 1100 dcraft skill (all without dragon, biped or crafted buffs). A t6 dragon scalecrafting thinger gives 90scalecraft.

My guess as to the minimum needed craft level for t6 going under Korchak's suggestion is probably a little off. Anyway, having the scales attune on creation is very, very close to my own suggestion - however, the limiting factor is in a different place. Having the scales attune on creation is very similar to adding a lv100 dcraft requirement, but I personally would prefer having a flat craft requirement for the simple reason - one of - that having the scales attune on creation would keep me from making gifts for my friends (among other things).

I could easily hunt up the bits, bits, components and whatnot, but it wouldn't be the same as presenting someone with a completed set that had my character's name on it. I know -I- wouldn't quite enjoy having 15-20 items dumped on me, then the hassle of finding a place, buffies, etc as a 'gift'. Like a pair of socks, sometimes craft scales run away, you can't find a biped, that person's plot with the t6 scaleforge is down....etc.

This is, of course, assuming that there are only two choices - craft req, attune on creation or both. I just feel that having the scales attune on creation would be more of a pain-in-the-massive-butt restriction instead of a requirement to work towards. A minor distinction, but imo an important one.

A small example - the Drain Bolt craftable. I have characters who are 100/100, great casters who don't instantly go squish. They've done the entire drain bolt quest chain already. Yet I'll have to do that quest to kill three golems on each of them, get the spell, get the techs I want scribed (despite having them scribed on a couple other characters already), transfer craft scales over, then craft the spell on every single one of them.

How is this different from the crafting requirement?

It's: making the Drain Bolt crafted version attune on creation instead of requiring that the Drain Bolt X spell be completed.

Making the t6 scales attune on creation instead of requiring the ancient to just have a certain craft level.

Korchak, you did say "Let's take it a little farther" - I just think that the pros created by your suggestion don't justify the losses elswhere.

Pardon my rambling >_> I like giving gifts.

[hallucin8]

Some interesting opinions here, but I'm just a little lost on the WHY... Sounds like you want the T6 Scales (note, T6 scales only, not ALL broken scales) to be 'harder' to get/use; is that what we're all looking at?

Attune on creation is NEVER a good idea, unless it's quest related. I'd like to think we can put that idea to rest

Personally, the only items I've ever created for myself (ped and dragon) have been Spells. Not because I can't craft most things (can't do jewelry, that's for sure), but simply because I dislike crafting in general.

I'm of the personal opinion, I don't want there to be a crafting requirement on wearing T6 scales... no thanks

I can see there being some notion to the idea that crafting T6 scales could require Hoard items, but please note, T6 only. By the same line of thinking, if we want the T6 scales to be harder to create, why not simply increase the number of components required?

Personally, if you want to see the requirements to wear T6 scales increase, I'd like it to be Adventure related. I can't really see any reason to make it crafting related.

Alternatively, what about having the FORM require a higher craft rating to scribe? I know this doesn't really affect the wearer, but it might by extension make the scales 'harder to make/get'...

[Spyrioyo]

Some interesting opinions here, but I'm just a little lost on the WHY... Sounds like you want the T6 Scales (note, T6 scales only, not ALL broken scales) to be 'harder' to get/use; is that what we're all looking at?

Attune on creation is NEVER a good idea, unless it's quest related. I'd like to think we can put that idea to rest

Personally, the only items I've ever created for myself (ped and dragon) have been Spells. Not because I can't craft most things (can't do jewelry, that's for sure), but simply because I dislike crafting in general.

I'm of the personal opinion, I don't want there to be a crafting requirement on wearing T6 scales... no thanks

I can see there being some notion to the idea that crafting T6 scales could require Hoard items, but please note, T6 only. By the same line of thinking, if we want the T6 scales to be harder to create, why not simply increase the number of components required?

Personally, if you want to see the requirements to wear T6 scales increase, I'd like it to be Adventure related. I can't really see any reason to make it crafting related.

Alternatively, what about having the FORM require a higher craft rating to scribe? I know this doesn't really affect the wearer, but it might by extension make the scales 'harder to make/get'...

I agree it should not be attuned upon completion, and there shouldn't be any crafting requirements, and that it shouldn't use hoarding items there is other uses for it then using hoard with T6 scales. The best way is to increase amount of the components needed to make it. Sometimes the best solution is the most simple one.

[Alisto]

Some interesting opinions here, but I'm just a little lost on the WHY... Sounds like you want the T6 Scales (note, T6 scales only, not ALL broken scales) to be 'harder' to get/use; is that what we're all looking at?

Correct - though I'm also hoping the 'ancient only' requirement is removed.

why not simply increase the number of components required?

That is a perfectly viable solution, and one I think should only come up when we've exhausted all other routes. Increasing the number of components required would certainly work...BUT it's pretty much a 'go grind more' difficulty. Equivalent to increasing a bosses health to make it more 'difficult'.

If I had a choice between grinding in one spot for two hours, or grinding in two spots for one hour each, I'd take the latter.

shouldn't use hoarding items there is other uses for it then using hoard with T6 scales

Could you please clarify this?

[Spyrioyo]

I can because you can also sell hoard items for money to the oddities broker.

I'm also going to list all the broken scales and what is needed to make them so we can come to a solution. If we do go down this route it should be reflected threw the rest of the tiers, and they should be made improvements to reflect the priceless changes, like split each one into Conqueror and Priceless but divide the selection for the formula into Conqueror and Primal then into, each scale type.

Tier 1:
Name: Splendid
Requirements: Level 1
Components: 1 Cracked Dragon Scale (Chest, Wing): Bronze, 4-2 Scale Hardener: Bronze
Skill Used: Scalecraft
Skill Stats: Min Skill: 1, Opt Skill: 200

Tier 2:
Name: Exceptional
Requirements: Level 20
Components: 1 Rotted Dragon Scale (Chest, Head, Wing): Iron, 4-2 Scale Hardener: Iron
Skill Used: Scalecraft
Skill Stats: Min Skill: 200, Opt Skill: 425

Tier 3:
Name: Majestic
Requirements: Level 40
Components: 1 Ruined Dragon Scale (Chest, Foreleg, Head, Hindleg, Wing): Steel, 4-2 Scale Hardener: Steel
Skill Used: Scalecraft
Skill Stats: Min Skill: 400, Opt Skill: 625

Tier 4:
Name: Resplendent
Requirements: Level 60
Components: 1 Fragmented Dragon Scale (Chest, Foreleg, Head, Hindleg, Wing): Cobalt, 4-2 Scale Hardener: Cobalt
Skill Used: Scalecraft
Skill Stats: Min Skill: 600, Opt Skill: 825

Tier 5:
Name: Regal
Requirements: Level 80
Components: 1 Shattered Dragon Scale (Chest, Foreleg, Head, Hindleg, Tail, Wing): Mithril, 4-2 Scale Hardener: Mithril
Skill Used: Scalecraft
Skill Stats: Min Skill: 800, Opt Skill: 1100

Tier 6:
Name: Priceless
Requirements: Level 80
Types: Conqueror, Primalist
Components: 1 Corroded Dragon Scale (Chest, Foreleg, Head, Hindleg, Tail, Wing): Adamantium, 4-2 Scale Hardener: Adamantium
Skill Used: Scalecraft
Skill Stats: Min Skill: 1000, Opt Skill: 1325

[Guaran]

You want them to be harder to obtain. Just up the mats needed x100. Simple change in the formula, and loot tables don't even need touched. I'm ok with some added difficulty for obtaining epic gear.

I don't agree that the added difficulty = adults and hatchlings can wear it. Someone said earlier in the thread that it's simply a few clicks to get ancient. If they want to wear these, click those few clicks. Arop can be considered a portion of the added difficulty. Someone complained that these scales are "easy-win" for Dragons. Lets give them to hatchlings if they do 70 craft. This is the reverse of making them more difficult to obtain. No thanks. Craft is easier to grind out than adventure. Would add a day or 2 max.

Adding hoard to the mats. Don't see the point. It certainly wouldn't make them more difficult to obtain, someone has pointed out that hoard is easy to get. That idea doesn't make sense, as it doesn't add to the difficulty.

Attune on create, no thanks.

The only thing that makes sense is the make the comps harder to get, and/or make the formula require more to craft them. Still do not think either of those changes warrants hatchlings and adults wearing repaired scales that fit an ancient sized dragon.

Are we really fixing something that's broken? No.

[Litarath]

You want them to be harder to obtain. Just up the mats needed x100. Simple change in the formula, and loot tables don't even need touched. I'm ok with some added difficulty for obtaining epic gear.

I don't agree that the added difficulty = adults and hatchlings can wear it. Someone said earlier in the thread that it's simply a few clicks to get ancient. If they want to wear these, click those few clicks. Arop can be considered a portion of the added difficulty. Someone complained that these scales are "easy-win" for Dragons. Lets give them to hatchlings if they do 70 craft. This is the reverse of making them more difficult to obtain. No thanks. Craft is easier to grind out than adventure. Would add a day or 2 max.

Adding hoard to the mats. Don't see the point. It certainly wouldn't make them more difficult to obtain, someone has pointed out that hoard is easy to get. That idea doesn't make sense, as it doesn't add to the difficulty.

Attune on create, no thanks.

The only thing that makes sense is the make the comps harder to get, and/or make the formula require more to craft them. Still do not think either of those changes warrants hatchlings and adults wearing repaired scales that fit an ancient sized dragon.

Are we really fixing something that's broken? No.

I'll once again return to my original suggestion.

If you reference earlier in the thread I offered quite a comprehensive way to deal with scales, regarding a craft requirement. I'll summarize it again here.

Remove the Ancient-only requirement. Not all of us want to become adults or ancients... let any dragon wear it.

Now, for the reqs:

Adult: 90 in one craft school, or 45 craft in two craft classes, or 30 in three craft classes.

Hatchling: 100 in one craft school, or 50 in two craft schools.

Adults and hatchlings want to use the scales, they need to be prepared to work hard for them, but, splitting up a craft requirement like I just detailed may well be much more attractive to some players than others.

It is easier to raise two craft classes to 45 or three craft classes to 30 for an adult, but the option would remain for a 90 in one craft school. The same can be said for a hatchling, easier to level to 50 in two craft classes, or have the option for 100 in one craft class.

If THAT'S not enough, alright, I would suggest implementing another idea Alisto offered, adding in the additional cost of a set amount of hoard needed in addition to the Tier VI scale bits to craft the scales for adults and hatchlings.

Again, to clarify... the scales WON'T drain hoard as you wear them, only cost an amount of hoard to craft.

If people want to be able to take the easy route to wear Tier VI scales... by all means, ascend to ancient at the bare minimums of 90/30 and get your scales that way, but if you want to be able to wear them as adult or hatchling, be prepared to work hard for them.

End of Story

[LOVWYRM]

You want them to be harder to obtain. Just up the mats needed x100. Simple change in the formula, and loot tables don't even need touched. I'm ok with some added difficulty for obtaining epic gear.

good idea in my eyes

I don't agree that the added difficulty = adults and hatchlings can wear it. Someone said earlier in the thread that it's simply a few clicks to get ancient. If they want to wear these, click those few clicks. Arop can be considered a portion of the added difficulty. Someone complained that these scales are "easy-win" for Dragons. Lets give them to hatchlings if they do 70 craft. This is the reverse of making them more difficult to obtain. No thanks. Craft is easier to grind out than adventure. Would add a day or 2 max.

I think we should respect, that some decide not to go for adult or ancient-for their own good reasons.
Its a challange at least- and a harder way to come to 100 as a hatchie, than become ancient by ARoP.
I`ve learned, that those lvl 100 drags are better adventurers /crafters than some ancient noobs. They should be able to wear that t6 scales too. Indeed Ancient RoP is an easy thing nowadays- and does not qualify a drag to become something special.

Adding hoard to the mats. Don't see the point. It certainly wouldn't make them more difficult to obtain, someone has pointed out that hoard is easy to get. That idea doesn't make sense, as it doesn't add to the difficulty.

Why not make it an requirement to WEAR T6 scales?
Many years ago, there was a rumor, that if drags should ever be able to become lvl 101- the hoard requirement would be 60 mio.
So now drags are not gonna be t6- but our scales are.
So I like the idea, that you can only WEAR T6 scales if your hoard is this 60mio. I it drops down under that mark, you have to go out hunting for hoard again (they simply do not fit if drag is too thin^^) It will give the hunt for Allanthos journals or Dwarven relics some additional sense.

The only thing that makes sense is the make the comps harder to get, and/or make the formula require more to craft them.

[COLOR="#800080"] agreed
[/COLOR]
Still do not think either of those changes warrants hatchlings and adults wearing repaired scales that fit an ancient sized dragon.

Since when does the size says anything about the quality or qualification? Oh well....

Are we really fixing something that's broken?

Would that be the first time in Istaria`s history?

No.

Do not get me wrong Guaran- as always I respect your thoughts- though this time I can`t agree with all

[Guaran]

I'll once again return to my original suggestion.

If you reference earlier in the thread I offered quite a comprehensive way to deal with scales, regarding a craft requirement. I'll summarize it again here.

Remove the Ancient-only requirement. Not all of us want to become adults or ancients... let any dragon wear it.

We will have to just agree to disagree on this point, as I do not believe adults or hatchlings should wear them just because a few people choose to purposely gimp themselves by not ascending.

Now, for the reqs:

Adult: 90 in one craft school, or 45 craft in two craft classes, or 30 in three craft classes.

Hatchling: 100 in one craft school, or 50 in two craft schools.

To be honest, I do not believe that an item can be set up with those types of varied equip requirements.

Adults and hatchlings want to use the scales, they need to be prepared to work hard for them, but, splitting up a craft requirement like I just detailed may well be much more attractive to some players than others.

It is easier to raise two craft classes to 45 or three craft classes to 30 for an adult, but the option would remain for a 90 in one craft school. The same can be said for a hatchling, easier to level to 50 in two craft classes, or have the option for 100 in one craft class.

To me allowing a craft class to enable equipping these, only makes them easier to obtain. Not harder. Especially 3 classes at 30 assuming the game could be set up to do it.

If THAT'S not enough, alright, I would suggest implementing another idea Alisto offered, adding in the additional cost of a set amount of hoard needed in addition to the Tier VI scale bits to craft the scales for adults and hatchlings.

Again, to clarify... the scales WON'T drain hoard as you wear them, only cost an amount of hoard to craft.

This doesn't add to the difficulty in any real way. It's just another easy-button.

If people want to be able to take the easy route to wear Tier VI scales... by all means, ascend to ancient at the bare minimums of 90/30 and get your scales that way, but if you want to be able to wear them as adult or hatchling, be prepared to work hard for them.

End of Story

but that's just it. All these suggestions make them easier to get, and allow adults and hatchlings to wear them.

It's been said a few times that players sometimes choose to stay hatchling or adult for the added challenge. Then why would they want t6 scales that only an ancient could wear? Would using t5 mithril scales instead of t6 add to the difficulty? To me that line of reasoning doesn't imply they would even want these scales, in fact it does the reverse.

Another point on your last statement. It sounds like you want to take the ability to wear the scales away from ancient dragons, only to give them away to someone with level 30 craft in a couple schools. It comes across as wanting to penalize some player who did ancient but nothing else, and somehow in your eyes they are not worthy to wear them. "Why should they get them when my hatchy is 100 crafter! He should get them too!" Ancient requires 100 days, plus all the ability dragon quests. I disagree that having ancient as a requirement is "easy-button" as far as the t6 scales go. I'm also pretty sure they require level 100 adventure as well, so the 90/30 example of yours in not accurate.

Why not make it an requirement to WEAR T6 scales?
Many years ago, there was a rumor, that if drags should ever be able to become lvl 101- the hoard requirement would be 60 mio.
So now drags are not gonna be t6- but our scales are.
So I like the idea, that you can only WEAR T6 scales if your hoard is this 60mio. I it drops down under that mark, you have to go out hunting for hoard again (they simply do not fit if drag is too thin^^)

This is actually an interesting idea. A minimum hoard level to wear.
The number you are thinking of is 61,900,000 which is level 120 hoard amount. 25,333,000 is the level 100 hoard amount. But these scales require level 100, and level 100 is tier 6 already. A 25,333,000 hoard level to equip (if something like that is possible) I would be in favor of. In all honesty it wouldn't be a huge additional requirement, but I could understand it. But I still do not think that should allow adults or hatchlings to wear them, have to agree to disagree on that one

[Machaeon]

To me allowing a craft class to enable equipping these, only makes them easier to obtain. Not harder.

Honestly I don't see how adding a requirement would make obtaining something easier. A bare minimum of 90 adventure and ancient is required to wear the scales currently. I've said before: ancient is easy to get to, and therefore isn't all that prestigious.

I am still firm in the belief that hatchlings and adults should be able to wear the t6 scales IF they work extra for it. 100 adventure and 100 craft should be the requirement to wear the scales if you're not an ancient. If you are an ancient, you aren't penalized. If you're not an ancient you have something to work towards.

I have an adult dragon who's done all the ability quests he can and has the rune of ascension ready to go. 10 seconds max and he's an ancient. However, I won't be ascending him until he has a good RP reason to do so. He's mere seconds and zero effort away from being ancient, he has a t6 scale set in his inventory, but he can't equip the scales. Why? I have yet to see a good reason why he shouldn't. True, he doesn't yet meet my own suggestion for the requirements on the scales yet (40 craft). But that's because I have had no reason to work on his craft past 40, since I already have a completely maxed out dragon.

I don't want the t6 scales to be easier to get. I simply want those who refuse to ascend, for whatever reason, to have the opportunity to work for them.

You want them to be harder to obtain. Just up the mats needed x100. Simple change in the formula, and loot tables don't even need touched. I'm ok with some added difficulty for obtaining epic gear.

You do realize there's a difference between "harder" and "outrageously difficult" correct? It takes hours and hours of grinding to get the materials to make a t6 set as it is. The ONLY reason I have 2 full sets on my account is because one set was made as a gift for me back when they were useless, and I held on to any pieces that dropped back when they were useless. I got lucky. I held on to things that were useless and they happened to become actually desirable.

It took me days of grinding to get enough scale hardeners to even think about making a third set. Upping the mats slightly I would be absolutely fine with. But 100x what they are now? No. Not worth the time.


Lastly, adding a hoard requirement to wear the scales would be excellent. Great idea, you have my 100% support for that. 25 million or higher would be perfect.

[Alisto]

Lastly, adding a hoard requirement to wear the scales would be excellent. Great idea, you have my 100% support for that. 25 million or higher would be perfect.

I like this one as well. Somewhere in the range of 50-100million sounds appropriate, to me anyway.

purposely gimp themselves by not ascending.

Far from gimped. I toyed with the idea of having a health based hatchling I used to do Reklar/Valkor hunts and start off the fights, because it was 1) Extremely possible and 2) Hilariously adorable.

To me allowing a craft class to enable equipping these, only makes them easier to obtain. Not harder. Especially 3 classes at 30 assuming the game could be set up to do it.

I believe it is a craft class required in -addition- to the adventure class. Allowing someone with just the suggested craft classes would indeed be easier, but that's not what is being suggested.

This doesn't add to the difficulty in any real way. It's just another easy-button.

A rather pointless dismissal with no support. The 'requiring hoard to craft' could easily be adjusted into 'requiring 60 million hoard to craft'. That'd be quite similar to Lov's suggestion of requiring a certain amount of hoard to equip the scales.

Then why would they want t6 scales that only an ancient could wear?

Because we want something to work for! Working for things is nice. Hatchlings in particular are quite limited in what they can do - they don't get DCRYS, for example.

Ancient requires 100 days, plus all the ability dragon quests. I disagree that having ancient as a requirement is "easy-button" as far as the t6 scales go. I'm also pretty sure they require level 100 adventure as well, so the 90/30 example of yours in not accurate.

I detailed earlier why the 100 days and ability quests are not 'difficult' by any means. Furthermore, you only run into the 100 days when rushing through the content. It feels like the 100 day req is there to keep people from rushing through the content...So, no surprise that it pops up when - well, rushing through the content xD Most games I've found have those limits, and not once have I ran into them. If a player does run into them, then they're serving their purpose.

Just up the mats needed x100

I can't quite tell if you are using hyperbole here. Regardless, x100 would be 200 scale hardeners per scale, for a total of 1000 for one scaleset (4000 if not at optimal). I do feel the t6 scaleset should take longer than the t5 to acquire, but...at a rate of 20 hardeners per hour, that'd take 50 hours of grinding. 20 hardeners per hour is the rate I went at while duel logging two dragons in Barrier Vale. Not including component hunting time.

On a somewhat related note, the ratio of hardener drops to the other bits is out of whack. By the time I got twenty hardeners, I had enough of the specific bits to craft 2-3 sets. Heck 11 of the wing scale pieces...The form could be adjusted to require more of those as well.

make the formula require more to craft them.

Since the scales are t6, I think it'd be appropriate to require 1200 dcraft to scribe (a 200 increase) if the optimal skill is kept as is. I can just barely reach 1425 scalecraft skill with a t6 scaleforge, scalecraft teched scales (fores/head/chest each with scalecraft and then two sockets with t6 str and dex crystals in there), and a claw with a t6 scalecrafter's cog, also with t6 str and dex crystals. Biped buffs, then t5 strength (and maybe a dexterity) potion. 300 TP into strength.



It would also be nice to know the purpose/reasoning behind gating the t6 scales behind the ARoP.

Perhaps there's a way to require a certain quest be done in order to wear the scales? I'd be happy to take my hatchling through the RoP and then the ARoP quests as long as she didn't have to actually use the stone thingy/ARoP rune and explode. That way, a hatchling could have ancient 'status', but not have to actually ascend. I'd like the challenge of going through the ARoP on a hatchling as well. This would also fix the gripe with hatchlings not being allowed to join DCRYS.

[Spyrioyo]

Incorrect it requires to be an Ancient, 100 adventure to receive them from someone else, and it requires 1000 dragon scalecraft minimum to make them yourself, which you have to be at least 100 craft anyways for one school to even make or obtain the master scale repair formula to even make it. Allowing crafting class can make it go easier cause then it could possibly negate the 1000 scalecraft minimum to make it possibly. Making its so you have to use hoard its just an excuse to make it harder and more pointless and plus attaching hoard to the requirements could cause a number of other unforeseen problems.

I don't agree with they should be for hatchings and adults its not right that be making it easier and there be no purpose anymore for being ancient I know before it was insanely difficult but still it got easier but it still a feat. Furthermore, some people still think ancient is prestigious that is just your opinion and it doesn't make it true.

Sounds to me you that some you guys just want an easy win-button and some you want a make it impossible and chase people away button. I don't mean to offend anyone but you guys are just trying to make adjustments to something that really doesn't need fixing. If is isn't broken then don't break it. It's fine the way it is. Hatchlings and Adults shouldn't have T6 scales, period. They should be reserved for the end game being an ancient. So I will have to agree to disagree with you guys.

[Alisto]

something that really doesn't need fixing. If is isn't broken then don't break it. It's fine the way it is.

It doesn't need fixing, but I really think it could do with some improving.

there be no purpose anymore for being ancient

Flying. The stat boosts. Fly speed increase. Armor increase. Breath of Flame Burst. Resurrect. Mez spell. The crystal you get at the end of it.

They should be reserved for the end game being an ancient.

I've never thought of Istaria as even having an end game. Leveling pretty much -is- the game (and if you play a biped, you know the truth of this). Locking someone away from leveling something under the excuse of 'we want to keep it endgame' seems rather...putting a limit on something just to have a limit.

[Spyrioyo]

It doesn't need fixing, but I really think it could do with some improving.


Flying. The stat boosts. Fly speed increase. Armor increase. Breath of Flame Burst. Resurrect. Mez spell. The crystal you get at the end of it.


I've never thought of Istaria as even having an end game. Leveling pretty much -is- the game (and if you play a biped, you know the truth of this). Locking someone away from leveling something under the excuse of 'we want to keep it endgame' seems rather...putting a limit on something just to have a limit.

Some people consider becoming ancient to be end game its in a relative term and some quests are like level 100 only. One such example is the quest lines for the doom, unsung heroes, hunting for the epics can be kind of considered endgame stuff but in fact there really isn't end-game it is all a matter of perspective.

I do admit there is some discontinuity between the priceless scales and master formula need to make them, that should be improved.

[Alisto]

x100 would be 200 scale hardeners per scale, for a total of 1000 for one scaleset (4000 if not at optimal). I do feel the t6 scaleset should take longer than the t5 to acquire, but...at a rate of 20 hardeners per hour, that'd take 50 hours of grinding. 20 hardeners per hour is the rate I went at while duel logging two dragons in Barrier Vale. Not including component hunting time.

Behold, I can math!
>_>
<_<
2000 per scaleset at optimal. 100 hours for a full set at the rate I went duel logging two ancients in Barrier Vale. You saw nothing...*sneaks away*

[Spyrioyo]

Behold, I can math!
>_>
<_<
2000 per scaleset at optimal. 100 hours for a full set at the rate I went duel logging two ancients in Barrier Vale. You saw nothing...*sneaks away*

That is a ridiculous amount for components for a scaleset set, anything over 50 or 100 is pushing it depending what is needed and that's not including components for techs you have to gather along with gathering components for the broken scales.

[Azath]

Some of you seem to be saying "only ancients deserve these scales because I want it this way" but i don't see any good arguement why hatchies shouldn't wear them (or adults)?

Honestly, some of the most talented people i know and some of the toughest people to beat are hatchlings.

The ARoP is easy as can be, if you didn't do the quests as a dragon you were probably powerleveled anyway and you're weak without them. Any good dragon needs those quests, no matter if they're a hatchling or adult or ancient. As far as the arop goes, i also don't see how that's an issue. Every mob required can be reached and can and have been killed by hatchlings - except for the rift mobs - but really, i've done the arop with groups of 4 with people weaker than some hatchlings i see no issue at all. If you want hatchies to get ancient status then just give them an arop/rop that gives them only a requirement for wearing them so they're not forced to ascend.

We do have an order shard, we do have people who want to keep forever one form that's not ancient even on chaos.

Forever hatchies in particular get it way harder to work to level 100 than an adult (lack of flight/no avoiding mobs in places like WD where drags have quests) anyway, and adults who want to stay forever adult are still willing to work to get these epic scale sets too.

Easy button? No, people aren't asking for an easy button. Thats why someone (alisto?) put up a suggestion that these people can take a quest to go under the same things but not actually ascend. That way they're undergoing practically the same thing as an acinet would do...only without the big butt.

And please no more "because they won't fit" posts anywhere. An ancient can wear the same scaleset as a hatchling, istaria already countered that logic.

[Sindala]

This whole problem was created because Dragons get their last Armour at level 80. We asked many times for a version more fitting a level 100 char and in the end this is what we got. They tagged on Ancient called the Broken scales and released a whole bunch of weapons for bi-peds too.

Now If you really want there to be requirements for wearing them, then don't forget to add requirements to the level 90 armour bi-peds can already wear with ZERO adventure levels.

I say again, this is just a Dragon bashing thread and if you have issue with the scales then just don't wear them.
No to hatchies or adults wearing them as they are not built for them, they are REPIRED ancient scales for ANCIENTS not scales we craft.

I have many Dragons some Ancient, Adult and Hatchie, not once have I even thought of putting my Hatchie in Ancient scales because I know that's not the plan, if I really really wanted to wear them then I would ascend. Simple.

Next your be wanting Mages to wear full platemail because it's not fair that others can wear them and not you blah blah.

No to this, end of discussion.

[meepsa]

end of discussion.

First of all, it's not a dragon "bashing" thread, it's a dragon "discussion" thread.
Second of all, I highly doubt you get to decide when a discussion ends on here.

Here's why it doesn't make sense that ancients can only wear the T6 sets: Hatchling and Adults can wear the lower tier as well.
Now you could say "lore-wise" that only ancients wore the priceless set, but I can't really agree to that, heck, the whole "ancient requirement" doesn't make any sense when you go deeper into the lore.

[Sindala]

It makes no sense to me how a Bi-ped with 100 craft and NO Adventure schools can wear Teched Padded ironsilk (endgame ped armour) but that's just how the game plays out.

I like how nobody is going near the Bi-ped side of things in this thread thou. I may shatter peds Dreams by outing all the ways they cheat the system and yet Dragons cannot.