Encouraging new players to stay plus ideas for new in game features.

[Donairian]

These days there has been a fair amount of discussion on the steam greenlight regarding payment policy and how it could be updated, there are certain issues with the current system that presently impact on the influx of new players in the shards and restrict new blood from properly integrating into the community. I believe that the following suggestions would help rectify these problems and perhaps bolster the fortunes of Istaria in the present time and maybe even encourage more players to invest their money into this game.

1. Regarding the free trial period

The single biggest problem with the staying power of new players is the trial period of 15 days for any character that isn't part of the human race. This is an issue because due to the extreme popularity and difference of appearance of dragons compared to other races most new players will naturally gravitate towards this particular race simply because who doesn't want to be a gigantic dragon?

The issue is after these 15 days are up these same new players will often not bother to create a new character either because they can't afford it or they don't see the point of it if they are going to lose it again after 15 days. This is the same with any race that isn't human and it is probably the single continuing detriment to the growth of the Istarian community, this also has a knock on effect of dissuading other new players from Istaria from staying and therefore paying for a subscription simply because of how empty the game looks.

My solution is a revision on the concept of what can be considered F2P, instead of a time limit for how long you can play with any one character i suggest a level cap instead or failing that an additional F2P choice for hatchlings only. My reasoning is with the indefinite amount of time available to play the game new players should hang around for a lot longer and will populate low level areas in hopefully large numbers, enough to encourage other new players to play the game seeing the population of the area when they first log in. Also the low level restriction would encourage new players to pay for the game so they could get access to the the full Istaria experience which would include ascension to adult dragon and advanced ability quests and schools for naka races.

if unfortunately this isn't possible I think it may be apt to simply make the hatchling character F2P, if you could make it so instead it was the adults and ancients that were actually p2p it would encourage new players to pay for the full game just so they can grow their dragon character. Dragons are enormously popular they are after all the one single race that has been carrying this game for all these years and I would think it wise if Istaria could take full advantage of it, make hatchies F2P but tell them they cannot do the RoP until they get the subscription.

Of course the latter paragraph is my choice if the former was not possible to do I think it would encourage a lot more new players to stick around and have opportunity enough to enjoy this game and not get scared off by the big scary 'YOU MUST PAY TO CONTINUE PLAYING' sign once the 15 day trial is up. The majority of the existing dragon player base is already at an adult level or higher and the non human naka races likewise are of a very high level themselves, a revision of a payment policy in this sense would have little more impact than a simple rewrite of the terms and conditions to accommodate the change.

2. ability to purchase more than one lair or plot of land

It was an idea I thought up while sitting around in order, why can a single character only have one single plot of land or lair as that character? as of right now the only way to have more than one lair or plot is to create a second character in the same subscription paid account and likewise have them purchase the lair or plot of land, this does not cost anything extra to the player and considering the amount of character slots available it is no real detriment to keep such characters either.

My suggestion is how about making it possible to purchase an additional subscription to own more than one lair or plot of land with any one character. it would eliminate the absolute need for these extra characters that are created solely to own additional property and would also increase immersion in the game which would enable you to believe you were creating your own mini real estate empire by developing all this property, it might also bring in a little extra revenue for supporting all these extra structures.

3. online cosmetics store

One thing that Istaria could be good at is the introduction of more cosmetic items, these items could be purchased from an online store and then applied to the desired character via the login screen. These cosmetic items can be anything from weapons and armor skin overrides to say the dragon winter scarf or other such stand alone decorative items or even new pets that could be purchased exclusively from this store.

People love to customize their characters especially in a way that would allow them to create a look that they would consider unique to themselves, the introduction of an online store would enable them to do this and encouragement for it would be as simple as creating a new item or cosmetic override for the shop and then advertising it to the community. The online store would also only require minimal maintenance to run on the server and would tick over as easily as the standard subscription service normally does.

Also the online store could offer other such advantages to the player like vault upgrades, additional character slots, fun non practical abilities, allowance to let characters move to another shard or even the ability to transform one character into another race species entirely. The possibilities are plentiful and cheap to make an maintain, plus the community would be enriched by the added customization available to them ultimately think this would be a benefit to all involved with this game.

4. purchasing loyalty tokens

Currently the only way to earn loyalty tokens is to wait long and patiently for them to come with each new month and ultimately the reward of such patience can be a little underwhelming in the form of bank upgrades or one or two available cosmetic items.

My reasoning is that these cosmetics may be regarded as status symbols only, among the current community only those that have been around long enough to know of these items and upgrades will really appreciate the loyalty tokens as being a legitimate reward for their time. and while a few will stick around long enough to wait for these tokens to come naturally through the months maybe it would be apt to include other methods to allow the community to earn additional tokens. all it would require would be one payment for one token or a larger single payment for multiple.

This is by far my weakest idea though and it ties in very much with my previous suggestion of a online store but i my opinion at least it is an idea worth considering for a future update.

END OF SUGGESTIONS

Ok that is my 10 pence, this of course is all suggestions on my part and again I am showing my infatuation with the behind the scenes work but I am being sincere with the points I have put above as potential ideas for this game. rather than stick out my neck any more for this list I would leave this for anyone to discuss and question at their leisure I would try to answer questions as best I can and would apologize if I have overstepped my mark with this particular forum thread.

[Aekaitz]

I second pretty much all of this. I've always thought that one of the biggest reasons Istaria hasn't been upgraded as much as it could be is that they rarely get any new players for new money influx. The free trial period ends, and they disappear, or in the case of one hatchling I used to know, re-creating accounts over and over for the free trial period.

I think a cash shop would do this game good. I know a lot of older players will get all up in arms about "pay to win," but it would definitely create a whole new influx of money to help give this game the upgrades it needs and attract even more players. Items like you say, costumes maybe, special clothing and adornments, maybe adding a color picker similar to Dragon's Prophet where you get the base colors at the creation of your character, but you can pay for new swatches and change to a much more unique color unavailable to those who are brand new. And yes, maybe some really useful items that will help you out in the actual gameplay.

This can either be achieved through an in-game currency that you buy or on the Istaria website itself, and the items will be rewarded to you when you next log into the game.

I honestly think this would be a really helpful and attractive new way to bring in money and new players, so that upgrades can come and make the game attractive further for more players, and more money influx.

[Tilithia]

Well where to start. Istaria was never pay to win and from what I read over the years, majority of players is against it. Now things that will change appearances,pets,costumes,things that don't make you stronger, those are ok. Im all for cosmetics items. although heres one but: Istaria is so easily modded that even people who don't have the tech knowledge can change it easily if they pay it some time. You can already change appearance of your cargo pet, world cache, even music,ability/spell effects,even change monsters into something else.
Some people already willingly added mods to this game like white teeth and claws,new sounds and sky,dragon armor and some of them were added to the actual game for good later. what im trying to say,with a little practice almost anyone can edit those files into things they want. yes people love to customize,i love to customize myself and already edited certain environments to my liking,changed my pets looks,changed music files to my favourite songs,even added some splash pics and of course customized launcher. the shop for cosmetic items kinda becomes useless.

Now for the lv cap. that does sound like a good idea,perhaps lv 20 would be a good cap. although some people may want to be hatchies forever anyway but they will never do any epic quests,nor improve they character much (what can you do at lv 20? get a few teched t2 scales but you cant really improve much anywhere else). you cant equip epic items. bipeds though can switch between schools freely and lv 20 is a common requirement to join other schools. hmm maybe then lv 15. prestige schools would be something to,again encourage players to pay to play further. but that needs more peoples opinion. (craft lv cap??)

I still don't have opinion on more than 1 plot/lair. probably good idea,less pointless characters cluttering your launcher window.

[Arzel Rashemi]

1. Regarding the free trial period

I have to disagree with the whole F2P idea here. They have to keep the server up and keep the game running somehow. Want to support the game? Pay the sub fee. Its not that much.

To be frank, Istaria is quite player friendly already in that regard. Every other F2P game I know of out there has some major restrictions either classes and/or races, content, level limits, time limit restrictions on doing anything and everything, and pay walls all over. You want it? You have to pay for it, and often times repeatedly.

At least in Istaria you can play a human for free, access all the content of the game that everyone else has. The only restriction that has been set is owning plots and playing other races.

2. ability to purchase more than one lair or plot of land

We have that. You just buy another subscription. The price is $14.95 a month for a second plot. Pay it and viola! You have a second plot.

3. online cosmetics store

While I'm not adverse to a token that would allow me to change my character's looks, its a subject that has been discussed off and on for years now. Maybe once everything the devs want updated gets updated? I dunno. While it would be nice to buy a special mask or shirt or maybe a pattern that allows me to build a special building/chamber/mural/banner on my plot/lair, underneath it all I'm actually glad they don't do this. It means that with a little time and effort anyone can build or get the same stuff, except for perhaps old obsolete event items.

4. purchasing loyalty tokens

So, you want to be able to purchase veteran rewards? Nope. Can't agree with that at all. Those tokens are a reward for those who have put in the time and paid the sub and shown loyalty to the game. Nowhere, in any game I have heard of, have you ever been able to purchase a veteran reward.

[Donairian]

Ok so a number of points came up that I wanted to address, if no one minds I would like to extract a sentence or two from each response so I can help make my intentions clear and hopefully straighten out my point of view.

Well where to start. Istaria was never pay to win and from what I read over the years, majority of players is against it. Now things that will change appearances,pets,costumes,things that don't make you stronger, those are ok. Im all for cosmetics items. although heres one but: Istaria is so easily modded that even people who don't have the tech knowledge can change it easily if they pay it some time. You can already change appearance of your cargo pet, world cache, even music,ability/spell effects,even change monsters into something else.
Some people already willingly added mods to this game like white teeth and claws,new sounds and sky,dragon armor and some of them were added to the actual game for good later. what im trying to say,with a little practice almost anyone can edit those files into things they want. yes people love to customize,i love to customize myself and already edited certain environments to my liking,changed my pets looks,changed music files to my favourite songs,even added some splash pics and of course customized launcher. the shop for cosmetic items kinda becomes useless.

Ok so my point regarding this is that mods while I agree they are capable of pretty much anything do actually require some knowledge of how things work to implement from the player in question, this is even more so when you are making a mod which will require intricate knowledge of how to edit the game without having access to the developer's tools which originally created the game. Even after all this the only person that will actually ever see any of these mods will be the person that installed them in the first place, you could have ancient's mod and be towering over all other ancients with setscale but the others won't know it unless you actually tell them. It is a nightmare to even teach new players how to install the lair mod just because you are basically just blindly relaying instructions through the chat and silently praying that you haven't just motivated them to foul up their Istaria browser.

With a cosmetics store that won't be the case as it would have already have been part of an update thus everyone would be able to see exactly what you were wearing from said cosmetics store, the process would be simple and as long as responsibility is taken without risk to the game's inner workings there would be no ill consequence for doing so. that is just my five pennies, mods are great but you just need to accept they are your own little fantasy for the world.

ok secondly (couldn't quote Arzel because it ate my message) I must address the third reply because I needed to point something out.

What I am getting at here is that new players when they first get this game sometimes don't actually realize that humans are free to play nor do they particularly want to play them because after all 'zomg i can play dragon!!!!!' they will all too frequently gravitate to the dragons simply because of how unique they are as a race full stop, its on the advertisements as a highlight after all. this sets them up for the cycle of them starting up the game, creating a dragon, playing as a dragon, then realizes after 15 days that they can no longer play their dragon and then they stop playing never to be seen again because why bother creating a new one?

This is why I think a level cap is a good idea instead of a trial period, if new non subscription players were kept at low levels but with no time limit on how long they can play they can get settled into the game and actually make a rationalized decision about if they want to keep going with this game or not via subscription. The community although it is in excellent health is still in a diminishing state, veterans are few and far between and when I logged in today a single new hatchie literally said to me 'at last another player' I was literally the first other player she saw after playing for a while and that is exactly my point. We need new players and we need them to stop this continued knock on effect of dissuading other new players from playing the game and the single biggest roadblock to accomplishing this is the trial period which keeps scaring them away. of course we could always tell each hatchie that comes into to New Trismus to play human if they want to keep playing but why should we crush their spirits like that? and who would keep telling them?

[Slimey]

The response of Arzel is one of the reasons this game is dying. There are fewer people playing on Order now than a year ago and way less than five years ago. The attitude of don't change anything will slowly drain away people and new ones will not stay. The constant crashes do not help. I will argue one point. I would like another plot or two. I do not want to pay a full subscription price because I do not want to have to play one or two more characters. Arzel must be rich if they think everyone (mostly new players) can afford two to three monthly subscriptions. I can but do not want to spend that much per month. What happened to the $5.00 per month for a second plot only or $5.00 for a second character without plot? As long as no one is willing to look at change, nothing is going to improve. We have more people playing during double XP month than any other time. Try some of these and see if it makes any difference. My half a cent worth. Slimey on Order

[Arzel Rashemi]

The response of Arzel is one of the reasons this game is dying. There are fewer people playing on Order now than a year ago and way less than five years ago.

Arzel must be rich if they think everyone (mostly new players) can afford two to three monthly subscriptions.

Thank you for putting spin to my financial affairs and lifestyle in way far better than any PR person could! Its absolutely glowing! Tell me, did I win the lotto? Surely you've spun the PR so I won the lotto. If not, you're fired! And psychic too? I'm impressed. Never met anyone that could tell me how I think, so that's a first! You sure you aren't working for the NSA? You know me so well! You must be my brother from a never-life.

Sarcasm aside, I avoid sweeping people into one of two camps by assumptions of them and telling them what they think because its rather rude and uncivil. Rather than personally attacking me and making assumptions in any attempts to pigeon hole me, try to get to know me personally first. It might actually lead to getting a decent reply out of me then and we can have something called a discussion.

ok secondly (couldn't quote Arzel because it ate my message) I must address the third reply because I needed to point something out.

As for answering you Donarian, I'm sorry that your PC ate your message. lol.
I admit agreement there with the F2P limitations not being very clearly stated. I can see how it would be frustrating enough that you would not want to stick around. They could be a little bit more clear on that point in making sure that new players know that the only way they can play for free is to play as a human but they would get access to all the content that any other player can. Only that playing dragons and other races would just cost extra.

[Spyrioyo]

There is other ways then making these changes over options like using the program Twitch to stream istaria to attract new players, too.

[LOVWYRM]

I think we all agree on the fact, that Istaria needs new players.. SOON.

New payers who spread the word about Istaria.
New players who walk in the low level areas-to fight and explore and learn together.

What we propably need first, is a detailed list of reasons, why new players do not stay- we all should try to put it in an extra thread,
maybe devs want to opene a "talk to the team" to collect all facts- and only facts-no discussions.

So back to this thread:
All great ideas DONAIRIAN!!
I will only comment on the F2P /free trial concept atm.

Our current system seems to be insufficiant.
Player numbers show that.

So why not go exactly the other way?
Get the players first- then make them pay.
I support Donairian`s suggestions. Be it level cap or something similar.
Let hatchies get to 100- but no RoP or ARoP. Make certain quests ancients only.

Let bipeds(all races) get one adv class to 100 and 2 classes craft to 100-
but all important quests require an adv rating of x and craft rating of y.

And yes- its not that easy, Arzel- "just pay and you can have it".
Istaria always had a lot of players with low and lowest budged- and I assume its gottem worse in the last years.
Flame and me and others used to pay subs or gift cards for players who could not affort since the very beginnings- nowaydays
we are happy to pay for our own subs.
So I sign what Slimey said! (and he did not attack you, but the statement you made- that is a big difference! So pls all stay cool and friendly- this issue is too important to argue- )

Fact is too: We need to go boldly to where Istaria has not gone before^^

[Donairian]

True but then it takes a certain amount of public knowledge of your channel streaming and for that matter enough interesting visual content to really convince any would be watchers to come play Istaria for themselves. Indeed you do actually need a charismatic ability of sorts plus an initiative in game to provide what other people might think as an entertaining enough stream to really earn this kind of curiosity in the game.

This is a initiative that I really find hard to find in many youtubers that see fit to make videos of Istaria, Istaria works kind of like runescape in terms of actual gameplay with leveling up being slow to gain over time and much of the in game dialogue being made in the form of text and chat boxes which rather hinder this type of stream being watchable material. So in order for such a stream to be successful the streamer himself needs to be interesting enough to make the game in turn to seem fun to play this can get very trying on an inexperienced streamer that would not be used to giving such a prolonged act for the sake of entertainment we can't all be Jerma985.

Of course however if such a streamer could be found to do this for Istaria and would be able to attract a large enough audience I would consider it a viable alternative, this is of course coming from a person that has tried to stream before and really has only met with complications and ultimately failure. A successful twitch stream of Istaria would itself largely bolster the population of all three shards who would in turn possibly invest in a subscription for the game, the significant injection of new players into the tutorial areas would finally halt the knock on effect of the relatively empty world dissuading new players to stay. The only problem that yet remains is the whole issue with the trial period, after such a stream naturally the majority is going to go for the dragon race which is still the major highlight of the game, it would still put a lifespan on this new success when it inevitably takes a big chunk out of the resultant new players.

[Arzel Rashemi]

(and he did not attack you, but the statement you made- that is a big difference! So pls all stay cool and friendly- this issue is too important to argue- )

Saying this:

Arzel must be rich if they think everyone (mostly new players) can afford two to three monthly subscriptions.

is indeed an attack. It is not a statement made relevant to anything I said nor to any view I hold or comment I have made. As I do not tell others that i do not know personally what their thoughts are or make assumptions of their personal life, then they should not be so rude to do so either.

And yes it is that easy. You want it, you have to pay for it. The lights have to keep running somehow. The game company sets the costs and how and what is available. Not the player. Every game is like that. Does not matter whether it is F2P with a store, pay walls, or any other things.

This topic has been discussed to death over the years about finding ways to lure in new players and make them stay. It has been run over and over again with people saying that by making istaria FTP, making it cheaper, or opening a store to sell things for use in game would lure people to stay. And although I have not been opposed to such, I am a realist. We have been told no time and again. Also, I don't think it will keep players in the game. If you've read through nearly all of the steam greenlight discussions and comments two things come up time and again explaining why people do not stay in the game.

-the graphics and engine are outdated and even indie games look better by comparison.
-there are bugs and connection issues that make it frustrating to play or unenjoyable to play.

Both of which the devs are doing fixes and focusing on for the year. That means they are listening.

I think its also a bit rude to assume that the player base is low or the game is 'dying' because players stopped playing or quit game because of just one singular reason. Many I know want a break due to the bugs at the moment, true. They are waiting it out before returning. Others are busy with exams or just de-stressing after exams. Some of us are moving to new homes or preparing for the big move to university. Still others are just out enjoying the nice summer sunshine, and others are just playing new games they've been waiting for the release of, or taking a break from burn out. Istaria's community does this, it goes up and down and up and down in its population that shows online. Maybe its less, maybe not but obviously there are enough active subs from people who don't play, play invisible, or don't often log in that it keeps the game running. I've heard 'istaria is dying' so often in the last 10+ years of playing, that its like telling me the sky is falling.

Here is a thought. Maybe we got too used to the population boost at new years and have watched it trickle down to what it was before we had the double xp event. It only looks like its dying. The first double xp event drew the population back the same way as the one that happened just this past new years, and it trickled down in summer to what we see now. So nope, not falling into the panic trap of 'the game is dying'

[Racktor]

1. Regarding the free trial period

I'm personally a fan of having characters locked to level 15 or 20 maximum (1 adv school & 1 craft school), one character per account, no plot, etc, for a free account. Any race, even dragons, since most people come for the dragons. However, 99% of the people who come for the dragons come for the flight and being big and powerful. So that real pull is there, since no one (except a few people, of course) want to be hatchlings forever. And at level 20, for that matter. Humans should still be the unlocked race that can go unlimited, so people who already have that aren't hurt by a change.

Of course, this is very unlikely to happen. The devs have said again and again that FTP versions of Istaria are not feasible. The subscription fees are needed to pay the bills and for the servers. This suggestion probably won't impact the income from subs in reality, since they're required for 2+ chars and levels 20+, but who knows? It's still unlikely to go through.

2. ability to purchase more than one lair or plot of land

Sure, would be a good idea to be able to hold more than one plot on one character, provided that you pay the fee required for a second plot. If I'm understanding you right, you're suggesting a side-fee that doesn't give you the extra characters and log-in as a full sub, but just another plot? If so, I side with that. +5 characters at something like 4$/month already exists as a side-sub, so why not plots?

But if you're suggesting to have more plots per sub or something, I can't say I agree. Once again, for reasons stated earlier: It won't happen and the devs need the income from plot subs.

3. online cosmetics store

Would be fine with that, but I would suggest that cosmetic items would be simple. Aka shoulder pets, capes, dyes, regular pets, etc. Basic creation options - eye colors, scale colors, skin colors, etc - shouldn't be put under that kind of paywall, in my honest opinion. Customization is important, after all, and hiding some of the initial customization isn't going to help anyone. Especially if you can't change your character at a later point in time.

Also the online store could offer other such advantages to the player like vault upgrades, additional character slots, fun non practical abilities, allowance to let characters move to another shard or even the ability to transform one character into another race species entirely. The possibilities are plentiful and cheap to make an maintain, plus the community would be enriched by the added customization available to them ultimately think this would be a benefit to all involved with this game.

Vault upgrades: I doubt that would happen. The vault upgrades ingame already go to a point that the devs can't really expand the bulk or stack without overloading the servers over time. (They've said this in threads requesting stack, but it may apply to bulk, too) The only real option is to risk that, or cut back on players who spend the gold on upgrading their vaults and place their earned vault behind a paywall.

Additional Character Slots: Already exists as a subscription, as I mentioned earlier. ("Character Slot Upgrade - 4.95$/mo") I would suggest adding in other things like this, though. Like additional login - 5$/mo or something. So people who want this can pay for a sub that's less than the full one if they can't afford it.

Fun non practical abilities: I don't see why not. Spells like "Boom!"? Would need work from the busy art department, though.

Allowance to let characters move to another shard: Exists. 25$ one-time fee to transfer a character. (A bit expensive imo) Also you can't move from Blight to live shards because of differences in deltas and whatnot.

Transform one character into another race: I've heard of this happening back in the mid 2000s, when I was searching for threads on my idea of the free trial (couldn't find anything). Someone sent in a ticket and their dwarf got transformed into a human so they could stay on the free trial but not lose everything. The poster said they only heard of it happening though and that it was a long time ago. Also, restrictions on this would be that only bipeds could change from one to another and dragons would be stuck because of their classes.

4. purchasing loyalty tokens

Considering loyalty tokens are literally rewards for being loyal to the game and resubbing - no. I can't agree with this. Loyalty rewards should stay loyalty rewards and other purchasable things should be like the gift shop you mentioned earlier.


Overall, I have to say that all of this has been suggested before (except #4). Most of the time the devs would say "we're working on it" or "no, we need the subscription income". You probably won't get much luck, but I'll give my two cents.


In the end, to people saying that the game's dying because there's a paywall - that's not it. World of Warcraft has a subscription, too, does it not? That's certainly not dying any time soon. The game's content, play style, and age are what's killing it slowly. The years of tab-targeting MMOs are behind us. People want action and to be involved. It's not everyone, of course, but it's the general public. Putting Istaria as a semi-F2P MMO isn't going to safeguard it for eternity.

Oh and also, if you guys want a great reference for a cosmetic shop for an F2P game, look at Path of Exile. Everything's kind of expensive for what it gives, but all of it goes into helping the game evolve. It's all cosmetic.

Edit: And to everyone, please, be civil. We don't want this thread locked a day after it was made.

[Donairian]

Of course, this is very unlikely to happen. The devs have said again and again that FTP versions of Istaria are not feasible. The subscription fees are needed to pay the bills and for the servers. This suggestion probably won't impact the income from subs in reality, since they're required for 2+ chars and levels 20+, but who knows? It's still unlikely to go through.


Sure, would be a good idea to be able to hold more than one plot on one character, provided that you pay the fee required for a second plot. If I'm understanding you right, you're suggesting a side-fee that doesn't give you the extra characters and log-in as a full sub, but just another plot? If so, I side with that. +5 characters at something like 4$/month already exists as a side-sub, so why not plots?

But if you're suggesting to have more plots per sub or something, I can't say I agree. Once again, for reasons stated earlier: It won't happen and the devs need the income from plot subs.

As an answer to the question yes I did mean it as a side payment for a single character rather like your example given with the ability to purchase additional character slots, if this could become a reality we would remove the absolute need for creating additional characters solely to own property.

pretty much all I had to say this time really, that was just a clarification post, also yes I really hope that this thread doesn't degenerate into a flame war, when I first created this thread it was the intention of discussing the suggestions posted in a civilized fashion and not to result in the detriment of anyone in particular. We all have opinions and I am not going to go about this thread challenging the opinions of other people unless they asked a legitimate question regarding mine.

[Spyrioyo]

I been following this I understand both sides, there should be some changes, but as for paying thing maybe more than one race free to play if not that's ok too but I agree with Azrel that the graphics and other errors need improved and fixed, that's most of the problem, not the paying but the paying is some of the problem cause some people cannot afford it. Another problem is the word needs to go out about the game. Another problem is attitude of some players could chase some people off. Does low population mean the game is dying no. There is some people that pay hundreds of dollars to play the game. So in reality both Azrel and Donairian are right in ways.

[Aekaitz]

I also agree that the graphics and bugs are whats turning a lot of people away, I had a few personal friends try the game but they never came me back because of how outdated it looked. Problem is; there has to be a new form of income because those kinda updates will be costly. At least bringing graphics up to par will be.

Getting the word out shouldn't be super hard. Maybe some wiki updates? More participation in the Spread the Word program? I know I could start doing some artwork and getting it out there on art sites to pique interest. On the dev side, maybe a site update will work. Making it updated and more appealing to the eye, possibly without that title that it has now. Istaria does have a great crafting system, but that's not what usually attracts people at first.

There do have to be changes, and there has to be give and takes on both sides of the situation really, or this game is going to end up dying. And I don't think any of us want that, that's one thing we can agree on.

[Machaeon]

Here's my breakdown of the original suggestion:

1. I'm very very skeptical about the potential costs and benefits of this suggestion, the server space does need to be paid for somehow if the game is to stay up and running. Would the upswing in player population caused by altering the free trial system pay for the extra server space and the continued maintenance that would be needed to handle that? I really don't know the answer to that question and that concerns me. I'm actually fine with the level cap idea in theory, this would increase the player population dramatically and possibly give those players a good reason to pay to continue playing. My main concern with this is the sustainability issue... if this can be done without harm then absolutely do it, if it can't be done without harm, then absolutely don't do it.
   
   
2. Multiple plots on one subscription sounds fine until you realize that good property and property in general is limited. If the goal is to increase the player base and keep people around, I don't think this is a good idea. Say this does cause an upswing in the population, then all I can see coming from that is once all the good properties are all bought, new players will be left with only the small, inconveniently shaped, and faraway properties to choose from. And eventually with a high enough population, there would be zero properties available for anyone unless whole new islands worth of property were regularly being added in. Which would of course frustrate and possibly drive away new players. My problem with this suggestion isn't that it wouldn't work to increase the player population, my problem is the effects it would have if it did work.
   
   
3. Selling cosmetics is something I can absolutely support wholeheartedly. This has been suggested before, and I do think it is one of the best options to help the game. Once all the bugfixes that are going through now in preparation for the launch on Steam are done, I truly believe this should be where a good portion of the developers' attention should be directed.
   
   
4. Firstly, if a cosmetics store is implemented, would we even need this? Secondly, rewarding subscribers is always a good thing for any game. It has been said that loyalty items are purely a status symbol, and why shouldn't they be? You pay for the game over years and years, I think you should have something to show for it, even something to brag about.

I think if the graphics do get an update, that will help immensely. We also need to get the word out and advertise a lot more. Hopefully the launch on Steam will help with both of these, or at least help fund them with potential new players.

[Aaelefein]

Not to get off subject per se, and I can see both sides of the arguments (definitely a solid NO on the p2w store options) - the one thing I am not understanding is the complaints about the graphics. Alright, so they aren't as richly detailed as Elder Scrolls Online, but then few games are. When people complain about graphics, what precisely are you complaining about - the general look, 'effects that go with actions, spells etc (I call that fluff for the most part and have it turned off as it causes problems/lag most of the time and doesn't add anything to game imo) or what exactly.

To me Istarian graphics are fine - neither so outrageous they require top of the line graphics cards, and now so bad they are cartoonish which so many games (apps mostly I think) make them look like they belong in the pre-school department.

I think the biggest detriments to the game (more or less in order):
1) Population - so small that new players don't see it as a viable game and so leave. Easy to forget Istaria/Horizons has been around for over 10 years now. There is also the disparity between the servers where the one that is highly populated also has the most...hmmm...issues(?) that turn people off; but don't look to the lower population RP server because maybe they aren't RPers, maybe mostly soloers so don't think they belong?

2) Bugs/Crashes - This as stated is the focus of this year so hopefully most of this will be remedied in the near future

3) Economy - This one is iffy and could/probably be directly related to Population. How many things aren't consigned now because they either 1) Don't sell are dumped back to the consigner or 2) Don't stay on the consigner long enough and end up back in the vault and one doesn't want to hassle with it over and over? In Aughundell you have a Consigner and a Tech Comp Consigner; in Bristugo one that is for Techniques - is it possible for these specialty Consigners to have different time limits and or not count against the item limit? If so, I would suggest adding a Tech Comp Consigner to Kion (at least) and maybe Bristugo, and a Technique (and or Forms) Consigner to Aughundell and Kion. I would also suggest dropping the diminishing returns effect on pawnbrokers.

In no particular order:
- Plots: 1/sub should remain, but for those that want property they don't want 'tiny' (imo anything less than 60x60) and there needs to be some attention given to permissions (aware that the game engine limits what can be changed here), tweaking the planning system (filters in the planning window would be nice; showing all structures in their complete state while planning; and perhaps removing the general scaffolding to partially built structures as well)

- Grind: all games have grind, and in this case I'm referring to harvestable nodes(adventuring seems fine to me). All fields should have rich/motherlodes (maybe scaled to the tier ie 1 in T1 and 5 in T5 etc) (or their equivalent for other resources) for 2 reasons: some fields are dicey when there are more than 2 people in them and adding population will only exacerbate that, and secondly - whether you need 1000 or 100,000 of something, better nodes doesn't change those numbers, the way they are processed or moved - the work is still done but it helps reduce the tedium/monotony of the task.

- Map/Quest Markers: This could also be a part of one of the bugs that exist in the game (memory?) but incorporate the Map Pack into the game. As it is now I've had to remove the Map Pack because it seems to have caused unexplained crashes that weren't there before I installed it. whether it's too much information (think this is it really) or what I don't know - but regardless the mapping system needs improvement. This includes adding markers for where quests are and it would also be nice to add markers for where one is going that shows up in compass - so easy to get turned around and find yourself going the opposite direction)

- Cosmetics Store: <shrugs> something I've never understood, but it seems to be quite popular in all the games I play so of course this is something that should be looked at. Could also take a page out of ESO's book and make available 'generic' consumables - stuff that can be player made but isn't as good as player made items (speaking mostly of potions/food here) - just an added thought is all.

I am sure there is more, but that's what I have off the top of my head.

Oh - mounts, but that's a whole new topic that brings its own problems, but is something if possible could be looked at as well.

Aaelefein

One more thing I'd like to add that isn't exactly pertinent to this topic, though it has tangential contact: Make it possible to apply Novians to World Projects (thought this was done, but found out it wasn't) and other people's plots.

And it would be real nice if it was possible to 'Upgrade' shops on plots as well (specifically beginner -> journeyman -> expert) without having to dismantle what is already there as they are graphically/footprint identical regardless of level. A clickable button (with second-level verification) that you want to upgrade said shop to the next level - materials that are still used are immediately applied to the new shop with the rest being returned as novians as before. (reason for this is I've found that just because it was there, doesn't mean you will be able to place it's upgraded version in the same location once deleted). Have also found where I was able to place a structure and not the next unless I placed the second one first (ie...vault next to the woodworking shop - had to place/build the shop before the vault)

[Tilithia]

I always liked Istarias graphics but world in general looks a little empty (shrubs,rock piles,fireplace,furniture these kind of things could be added-small things, "fillers" to fill the world a little) and a lot of spells could use better look.

Theres somewhat economy on chaos but from what I saw on order its nonexistent. on chaos theres plenty beginner stuff on Kion consginer and end game stuff (t6 wepaons,jewelry,epics) on Clearport consigner and they have reasonable prices. theres often building work.

[Racktor]

Theres somewhat economy on chaos but from what I saw on order its nonexistent. on chaos theres plenty beginner stuff on Kion consginer and end game stuff (t6 wepaons,jewelry,epics) on Clearport consigner and they have reasonable prices. theres often building work.

Order has no economy just because people are too kind. It sounds ridiculous, but that's what I've seen - usually if you gather the comps, people will gladly finish off your scaleset for you for little to no charge, for example. Everyone just sees no use for gold beyond buying a plot and so they don't ask for them and just help to give themselves somethin' to do. It's not really the mistake of the game, it's the players' conscience. The lack of player base also hurts Order's economy. (You generally only have 14-30 people online at a time, if that)

Once, someone from Chaos was talking in Order's marketplace about prices for things and half the chat was appalled by what was being charged for stuff on Chaos. xD

Anyway, getting a bit off topic here -

To everyone naysaying the plot idea: I don't think Donairian was suggesting giving more plots per sub for free, but rather letting one character hold more than one plot under their name. Or adding in a seperate "plot sub" to grant you another plot but not all the extra goodies (characters and logins). Or both, even.

[Donairian]

To everyone naysaying the plot idea: I don't think Donairian was suggesting giving more plots per sub for free, but rather letting one character hold more than one plot under their name. Or adding in a seperate "plot sub" to grant you another plot but not all the extra goodies (characters and logins). Or both, even.

Thank you that was my intention when I posted that suggestion, it was because I thought instead of all these extra characters that are created solely for the purpose of owning these properties we could instead concentrate ownership of all this real estate on one single character if need be without alts. I do keep harping on about it but I am trying my best to clarify my intentions, thing is I am not usually the best at getting every single minor detail correct and it seems to have caused some confusion and I apologize for that.