Rewards for becoming Ancient? Your thoughts.

[Firedragon]

By asking the devs to raise requirements for ARoP, we just might be asking them to raise the requirements to become an even bigger hatchling.
I have high expectations of what Ancients should be like, since Adult was a bit of a dissapointment.
Hence I have started this thread so that we can discuss what we would like to see.
From what I understand,some players areeither staying or going based on the outcome of ARoP.

Discuss here what the reward for becoming ancient should be. Perhaps David could post what they have in mind at the moment?

I myself want more strength, armor and health. I should be the last one on the healers mind in the thick of battle.
I want to be more useful in battle and not just be a viewblocker for the bipeds.
New abilities like AoE Snarl and AoE Tailwhip.

[Vlisson]

hmm i love my dragon and i dont need more power to enjoy it

i would like to see an added dragon state

beginning as hatchlings (like now, but with the size reduced by 50%)

making teenager rop (to get big as now hatchlings are)

then the adult rop

and then the Ancient rop

ok what should be the power of the ancients?

a breath attack with real amazing damage (usable all 30 mins for e.g.)

real big amount of armor, slow attack but big damage, and the ability to take riders =)

this would be enough for me

[evilkarl]

Increased strength, power, focus, Am thinking around 200 to each of those maybe more
Health and armour perhaps 1-2k of each
Increase ALL skills (again no less than 200)
Natural resistances and wards to melee/magic Again 2-400 of each
Reduced breath weapon timer with increase strength an area
AOE stun breath
AOE tailwhip
Multicast or similar for helians
BETTERER than they are now.
Better reward for hoard.

Implementing these would make dragons highly resistant and durable much stronger and healthier than they are now.

[Fireclaw]

Permanent boost as follows (because these boosts are in % of base, they would scale with level):
175% base strength - ancient dragons are huge with correspondingly huge muscles.
175% base power - ancient dragon's gigantic bodies can store lots of power.
175% base health - their huge bodies allow them to absorb a terrific amount of damage that would slay any lesser being.
250% base armor (this would have the same effect as bringing ancient dragons from 4 armor per level to 10 armor per level retroactive) This would give a level 100 dragon another 600 armor, giving a typical ancient dragon in all armor scales around 2000-2200 armor with True Grit V up. Still less armor than the 2400 a biped is capable of reaching, but quite respectable.
75% base evasion - ancient dragons are big targets and easy to hit. Their bulk makes it difficult for them to move out of the way.

Breath of Fire IV: Breath weapons should be a dragon's signature and most powerful weapon, but should not have such a long timer that it is never used.
Range 16
Area 12
Damage: 750-1000 + boost from hoard.
Recycle: 5 minutes (shares timer with lightning or ice breath)
Delay: same as for breath III

Ancient dragon tailwhip:
modifies regular tailwhip to give it point blank area of effect with range 6. AE should test to make sure that 6 range is sufficient to clear the dragon's body. If not, then consider increasing the range, or possibly making it range 4 but centered on the target of the attack. However, even if it misses the primary target, it should still have a chance to hit the other targets within range.

Ancient dragon snarl:
Modifies snarl to be AOE with Area 8 centered on the target.

Base speeds:
Base ground speed should increase from 50 to 65. Adults look kinda funny going at 50 speed because that speed is too low for their gait animation. Ancients would likely look even worse. It also makes sense that such large creatures can take big strides so move quickly.
Base fly speed should increase from 75 as adults to 90 for ancients. Ancient dragons are more experienced and better flyers.

In addition there could be a faction related boost: NOTE: I am in favor of not forcing helians to be casters and lunus to be meleers. Many lunus dragons (myself included) would rather cast, and it was impossible for us to make an informed decision when we committed because there was no real distinction between the factions at the time. If AE does go ahead with the distinction, they should consider adding in a quest giver to allow a dragon to switch factions.
Lunus ancient boost: +100 tooth and claw, +100 fire resist.
Helian ancient boost: +100 primal, +50 ice resist, +50 spirit resist (or whatever the adult helian boost gave).

[evilkarl]

percentage based increases are good, but normal syntax (in HZ) is 100+boost so 175% of base health, str etc

I think if you get larger as ancient the ground speed should decrease as flight will be prefered and 90 flight speed sounds good.

The T&C/primal and wards/resists should be much more than you suggested imo

[Larus-Fel]

id let everyone else decide on stats.. i just want to see an epic breath. similar to the one like bahamut did on Final Fantasy.. that... would... be.. .stellar[8o|]
relatively speaking around 1000-2000dmg.. (hmm.. wouldn't even kill a lvl 120 mob.. maybe higher? but on a higher timer. that never misses.. possibly 20-40 minutes) i do like the hoard related deal.. atleast that'll drain our hard earned hoard for a really neat cause :)

[Spellbound]

We already have GR and SS eating hoard, and now you want our breath attack to use hoard also. Don't think so Larus...

Whatever AE does, let's hope it is good. Myself I really don't care about anything other then armor, breath weapon and resistances. Write-ups for dragons stated they were unmatched by any biped in armor. So give us at least another 800+ in armor with full armor scales equipped and some more resistances. As for breath of fire, this has needed a change for a long time, this without a doubt should be a dragons signature attack. Lowering the timer and upping the dmg and hit ratio would be very sweet.

Most of all AE, and I can not stress this enough, pls redo the run animation for dragons. This is long overdo and I sure hope will be corrected for Ancient. We already look incredibly stupid when we run as adults with a hatchling stride.

[Marco]

Here's my list:

base multipliers:
1.5strength and power
0.8 dexterity
3armor

odd stuff:
0.1 of base T&C moved to strength*
0.1 of base primal moved to power*
breath weapon upped to Recycle*0.03*Level damage

*reflected only in current skill though

Choice group 1: (pick one from this group, will replace any previus)
3.3base armor modifier
1.8 base strength modifier
1.8 base power modifier

Choice group 2: (pickone from this group)(replaces previues path ability)
+120 T&C
+120 primal

Choice group3: (pick one from this group 3 times (may stack))
+100 slash resist
+100 pierce resist
(all damage types goes here)

Choice group 4: (pick one)
Lightning Breath
Cold Breath
Acid Breath
Fire Breath
(Garlic Breath (+100% damage vs vampires))
whatever I forgot

Not to forgetthe ULTIMATE REWARD (pick one):
Female
Male
Nueter
[;)]

[Larus-Fel]

twas an idea.. and plus DB and devs mentioned hoard being broken. and not having to rely on it much

[Jaraiden]

I like Fireclaw's ideas below and the lore and logic supports all of the boosts. AE just has to make sure it is comparable to the other living races (balance) for reward for effort.


I think a more balanced Power/focus boost would fit lore better though.

Permanent boost as follows (because these boosts are in % of base, they would scale with level):
175% base strength - ancient dragons are huge with correspondingly huge muscles.
175% base power - ancient dragon's gigantic bodies can store lots of power.
175% base health - their huge bodies allow them to absorb a terrific amount of damage that would slay any lesser being.
250% base armor (this would have the same effect as bringing ancient dragons from 4 armor per level to 10 armor per level retroactive) This would give a level 100 dragon another 600 armor, giving a typical ancient dragon in all armor scales around 2000-2200 armor with True Grit V up. Still less armor than the 2400 a biped is capable of reaching, but quite respectable.
75% base evasion - ancient dragons are big targets and easy to hit. Their bulk makes it difficult for them to move out of the way.

Breath of Fire IV: Breath weapons should be a dragon's signature and most powerful weapon, but should not have such a long timer that it is never used.
Range 16
Area 12
Damage: 750-1000 + boost from hoard.
Recycle: 5 minutes (shares timer with lightning or ice breath)
Delay: same as for breath III

Ancient dragon tailwhip:
modifies regular tailwhip to give it point blank area of effect with range 6. AE should test to make sure that 6 range is sufficient to clear the dragon's body. If not, then consider increasing the range, or possibly making it range 4 but centered on the target of the attack. However, even if it misses the primary target, it should still have a chance to hit the other targets within range.

Ancient dragon snarl:
Modifies snarl to be AOE with Area 8 centered on the target.

Base speeds:
Base ground speed should increase from 50 to 65. Adults look kinda funny going at 50 speed because that speed is too low for their gait animation. Ancients would likely look even worse. It also makes sense that such large creatures can take big strides so move quickly.
Base fly speed should increase from 75 as adults to 90 for ancients. Ancient dragons are more experienced and better flyers.

In addition there could be a faction related boost: NOTE: I am in favor of not forcing helians to be casters and lunus to be meleers. Many lunus dragons (myself included) would rather cast, and it was impossible for us to make an informed decision when we committed because there was no real distinction between the factions at the time. If AE does go ahead with the distinction, they should consider adding in a quest giver to allow a dragon to switch factions.
Lunus ancient boost: +100 tooth and claw, +100 fire resist.
Helian ancient boost: +100 primal, +50 ice resist, +50 spirit resist (or whatever the adult helian boost gave).

There should be no such Tooth and claw or Primal boosts as part of the ARoP, but rather an add on quest for that spellcasting Lunus or meleeing Helian. Obviously need to pick only one of them. Keep the Flame resistance and Ice/spirit resistance though. Switching factions after that "Become a True Helian/Lunus" . . . nope, but the added breath weapons - Ice or Lightning - should be a separate quest (but would be odd to have a Lunus with that Flame resistance to be breathing an Icy breath).

That is a large jump in base armor. AE needs to give adults better natural armor besides the 4/level + 45 due to larger size. I hope they follow lore and do so.

[Fireclaw]

I like Fireclaw's ideas below and the lore and logic supports all of the boosts. AE just has to make sure it is comparable to the other living races (balance) for reward for effort.


I think a more balanced Power/focus boost would fit lore better though.
[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Fireclaw wrote:Permanent boost as follows (because these boosts are in % of base, they would scale with level):
175% base strength - ancient dragons are huge with correspondingly huge muscles.
175% base power - ancient dragon's gigantic bodies can store lots of power.
175% base health - their huge bodies allow them to absorb a terrific amount of damage that would slay any lesser being.
250% base armor (this would have the same effect as bringing ancient dragons from 4 armor per level to 10 armor per level retroactive) This would give a level 100 dragon another 600 armor, giving a typical ancient dragon in all armor scales around 2000-2200 armor with True Grit V up. Still less armor than the 2400 a biped is capable of reaching, but quite respectable.
75% base evasion - ancient dragons are big targets and easy to hit. Their bulk makes it difficult for them to move out of the way.

Breath of Fire IV: Breath weapons should be a dragon's signature and most powerful weapon, but should not have such a long timer that it is never used.
Range 16
Area 12
Damage: 750-1000 + boost from hoard.
Recycle: 5 minutes (shares timer with lightning or ice breath)
Delay: same as for breath III

Ancient dragon tailwhip:
modifies regular tailwhip to give it point blank area of effect with range 6. AE should test to make sure that 6 range is sufficient to clear the dragon's body. If not, then consider increasing the range, or possibly making it range 4 but centered on the target of the attack. However, even if it misses the primary target, it should still have a chance to hit the other targets within range.

Ancient dragon snarl:
Modifies snarl to be AOE with Area 8 centered on the target.

Base speeds:
Base ground speed should increase from 50 to 65. Adults look kinda funny going at 50 speed because that speed is too low for their gait animation. Ancients would likely look even worse. It also makes sense that such large creatures can take big strides so move quickly.
Base fly speed should increase from 75 as adults to 90 for ancients. Ancient dragons are more experienced and better flyers.

In addition there could be a faction related boost: NOTE: I am in favor of not forcing helians to be casters and lunus to be meleers. Many lunus dragons (myself included) would rather cast, and it was impossible for us to make an informed decision when we committed because there was no real distinction between the factions at the time. If AE does go ahead with the distinction, they should consider adding in a quest giver to allow a dragon to switch factions.
Lunus ancient boost: +100 tooth and claw, +100 fire resist.
Helian ancient boost: +100 primal, +50 ice resist, +50 spirit resist (or whatever the adult helian boost gave).
There should be no such Tooth and claw or Primal boosts as part of the ARoP, but rather an add on quest for that spellcasting Lunus or meleeing Helian. Obviously need to pick only one of them. Keep the Flame resistance and Ice/spirit resistance though. Switching factions after that "Become a True Helian/Lunus" . . . nope, but the added breath weapons - Ice or Lightning - should be a separate quest (but would be odd to have a Lunus with that Flame resistance to be breathing an Icy breath).

That is a large jump in base armor. AE needs to give adults better natural armor besides the 4/level + 45 due to larger size. I hope they follow lore and do so.

I agree that there really shouldn't be much of a distinction in ARoP benefits between the different factions, which is why the proposed faction benefit is relatively minimal. I agree that the faction boost should come in the form of resistances only. Selective boosts to caster related, or melee related combat should come in the form of quests that a dragon can choose to do in order to make a melee oriented or caster oriented dragon (the quests could be mutually exclusive).

[Vahrokh]

What about considering what all the other races get, that is getting a bonus in stats tied with craft level? I.e. give the same stats (i.e. str, focus...) increase that a generalist biped class gets. Or even less than them, but still something.

[padishar]

I'd like to see some attacks that add to your hoard, something like the attacks the experiment school on blight had for mana. Something that would let us use hoard attacks more frequently.

[Fireclaw]

I'd like to see some attacks that add to your hoard, something like the attacks the experiment school on blight had for mana. Something that would let us use hoard attacks more frequently.

Hmm, interesting idea. Wouldn't need to be a reward for ARoP though. Could work as follows:
1. Have drain strike heal hoard instead of health.
2. How about a special ability that lets you gain hoard but makes you weaker in combat when activated. Something like: 1 minute duration buff that makes you take 130% damage from all enemy attacks, but 5% of all the damage you take while the buff is up is added to your hoard.

[Vlisson]

i hope to get ancient wont come with uber powers

but i hope that there will be some quests available only for ancients who give usefull abilities and powers

this would ensure that no player will leech fast to ancient and will gain all advantages but to have invest a lot of time to get all important quests done

[Devast]

I would like ancients to gain some ability in other spell lines. We are supposed to be the race most knowledgable about magic and yet can only use primal. I would suggest quests for each spell line desired. Maybe limit lunus to 2 quests and helian to 5. One other problem is the lack of casting related specials like perfect spell and multicast. Make helian only quests to gain these and other useful abilities.

Devast

[Fireclaw]

I would like ancients to gain some ability in other spell lines. We are supposed to be the race most knowledgable about magic and yet can only use primal. I would suggest quests for each spell line desired. Maybe limit lunus to 2 quests and helian to 5. One other problem is the lack of casting related specials like perfect spell and multicast. Make helian only quests to gain these and other useful abilities.

Devast

Not fair to lunus dragons who want to be casters. Especially unfair given that helians can melee just as well as lunus right now.

[Ktithrak]

I like what Devast wrote about spell lines, but it should be balanced!

Just a thought:

- Dragon Augmentation for both schools
- Fire and spirit skill for Lunus
- Ice and Mind skill for Helian
- both schools should be able to do quests for some sort of "dragon cleric"
which gives opportunity to get Life skill

[Vlisson]

hmm i hope we will never get biped spells to cast

i hope that the spell amount will get doubled for all

and we dragon get new Primal Spells

[Demelza Flameclaw]

i think ancient should be on par with a biped that has 2 or so lvl 100 multicalsses that'll keep em quiet ;)