What's with all the Sad Faces? ... Let me tell ya...

[Gliding Frost]

Agreed again! (With Aamer at the end of page one)

The number one reason I bought Horizons was that after 1 week in beta (ie the last week) I loved the community.

I don't agree with Phil about the loot. More loot or less loot if the game still has no major goal, nothing to drive that fun loving, working together community...I won't play it. I'm just not interested in owning the Most Magnificent Dragon Scale with Gleaming Gems and Shiny Metals. Sorry, imaginary spiffies just aren't my cup of tea.
On the otherhand, they are for some people and I do think there needs to be a bit of it added back into Hz. In Marketplace on Chaos people still search for regal swords, boar's rage masks, etc. Because they're useful, provide that needed edge, or work as a great compliment to a complicated armor setup.

Having long involved events like calling back the dryads adds all of the necessary items. Spiffy ways to get uber loot, a story to capture interest and lore to back it up, as well as methods for players of all levels to get involved. I was certainly not high enough to venture into the western deadlands to help kill the UBER bad guy and gather wands and scrolls. But I was able to participate in the building of the bridge and joining groups to go group hunting in the WD.

As a side note, event involvement for lower levels (say 10 to 40 single-classed) needs to be added to the adventuring side of events. As a level 2 dragon I was busting out sandstone bricks as fast as my little legs could carry them on the Kirasanct mine. But I was completely useless as a level 20 something on the kill werewolves attacking Dalimond quest, as the lowest I ever saw was a 40.

[LaughingOtter]

I have mixed feelings about this player written quest thing. On the one hand it would be excellent to include a few quests from those players with imagination and interest in writing them, but on the other hand, for me, it rang warning bells that AE either has nobody with imagination and some sound writing skills or they are just too busy to spare the time for this much needed aspect of the game.

Little of columnA, little of column B, I suspect. Iwould have enjoyed seeing this contest a year ago. Well, I would have enjoyed seeing a lot of things a year ago... The point is, it's here now. The door is open andnow it'sfor us to walk through. If this contest works, it mayopen the door to future oppertunities for otherplayer contributions.

[Syrith_Ice]

Well put Vahrokh

[Kulamata]

Another way of looking at it all, from a level or two up;

Negatives stack.

We are hardwired as a survival trait to note and remember unpleasant things more than positive occurences.

The game has some inherent negatives; the engine was supplied by a startup company that probably over-promised the engine's capabilities. And AE has struggled with the engine ever since, but they were not staffed or funded as an engine design company, so we will have to put up with its deficiencies. But deficiencies they are.

Reduced content introduction, I suspect, is related to the reduced staff. I do believe that they are working as hard as possible, but until more funding is available, content will be surprisingly available, but not overflowing.

We have all seen good friends leave, and in some cases that really hurt.

The game, like MMO's in general, substitutes repetition for difficulty. It is less successful than some at disguising the ol' treadmill.

With all these constantly in the players' consciousness, further negatives are magnified. And when changes deliberately increase frustration players get irritated, or even mad.

STRONG positive elements are needed to outweigh the negatives, and AE has simply refused to do things like add "thrilling" loot, or even to up tech and comp drop rates.

So, with lag, crashes, slow ports, server-limited spawning, and bugs we get added:Finishing machines pulled from the field, thevault reduction,a continuing war on techniques, the devaluation of good drops, (WD xtals), and insane form prices.

It really doesn'tmatter that the changes are in the service of trying tosquash the game to fit the amount of material. We have gone from complaints abouttoo few servers for so many players to too few players for two
servers. It is very important that the game experience be positive. And if every improvement and addition is also seen as an opportunityto slow the gamedown, the netresult is negative. The good and hard work should have had a strongly positive effect. Instead, time after time, the player response has been " that's nice, BUT...so long."

It must seem to the devs that we are never satisfied; and that is very unfortunate, because their vision and effort deserve better. Much better.Adding bitter medicine to the desert is a strategy thathas not worked. I hope thatthey change that strategy, and I hope it's not too late.

[Lost]

I have to agree, most of the people from Life that I came to know so well while rebuilding the Lerena bridge have slowly disappeared to betas or new releases.

Most/many things are really nothing much than some sort of grind (be it crafting or adv.). I fear that even if a direction is defined, it will be done as something "fun", just another grind.

Since the changes to techs, I've alsolost most of my motivation to do anything with jewelry crafting. To say nothing of finding the techs, or grinding away to find (or making money) to buy the formulas.

[Safire]

yea ive been playin for a year now(give or take 1-2 days)and i know what is ment by its become a lesser game with some of the events.....fall harvest was nice but there were event only forms and stuff should not all be ubber high mobs i look upon istaria and half expect a person in new brommel run into a indestructable fyakki ive also found that the level grind really hurts ive had to sart hangng out with level 100's fighting in there groups to get what i used to get solo premerged....and reasource mob resistance...im forced to go fo unguarded oak becuase im a bloodmage and i do crappy dmage to treants also ive found that we are seriously lacking in content and such think of it though were so low on content that you run out of it at level 10 unless your a dragon but then you must do the quests or be weak and as for people leaveing in mass numbers some people who i thought would never leave are buying WoW or perhaps Eq2 so they also need low and mid level mobshaveing everything for t5 and t6 sucks oh yea i also find that money is far to hard to make

[Hex]

so we will have to put up with its deficiencies. But deficiencies they are.

Speak for yourself. Maybe you have to but I don't.

[Anikitos]

I'm playing another game. To quote Eyejon Toothas, "I just flew on a bird across the ocean" - in fact I do that every single day! A game that has fully flushed out lore. One that has mounts. One that has a myriad of pets of many kinds. I'm playing a game with story quests - mysteries to be solved, and places to explore. A game where I can do quests and speak to epic world-changing hero characters. A game where you get experience just for exploring! A game where the loot sometimes drops something meaningful. A game where the vault is always upgradable! A game that has PVP and loot that's actually useful and cool to find. A game where exploits are fixed not through damaging the economy further, but actually through repairing it. I'm participating in daily impromptu roleplaying with 3 or more people. I'm the guild master of a roleplaying-strict guild. I'm playing a game that doesn't have nearly the annoying game-stopping bugs and lag of Horizons. I'm playing World of Warcraft. Silvermist on the Silver Hand server, where I can kill a foe my level with my bare fists and actually win the fight.

The above is a quote from Tigris. It sums up many of my thoughts.
For reference, check the goodbye section where Tigris posted the above in his own goodbye thread.

Read the section i posted, its actually the CORE of the problem for many ppl.



Anikitos

[unironed]

Err... So what? Horizons in 2004 has fallen behind the features curve. It happens.

Space Invaders, Super Mario, Prince of Persia, Doom, Anarchy Online... pretty much every computer game evolves - incorporating new features, utilising better technology, building on brand and heritage and .... making good money in the process.

So forgive me as I play Prince of Persia on my mobile and Warrior Within on my PC; if I have a little chuckle at the vanity players who mistake sustainable gameplay and character development for the fleeting interest generated by a slightly different learning curve.

In 18 months time WoW will then also be behind the curve and I look forward to reading all the whinging missives - how there aren't enough races, that the community vibe sucks, the world is too small, how Blizzard screwed feature X up, how class Y is broken and how much better in 2006 Game Z is....

AE/Tulga get it right, Game Z might well be Horizons II. There's a lot to build on.

[Cloe]

Before the merge I felt pretty attuned to the content in the game.. Since the merge it?s been a real challenge to get that feeling back again? Making the game more immersive would help in some respects.. Portal 3 or 4 times then run to the western or eastern deadlands. I have a decent computer but most of the time I have to reboot, in order to continue to play. I realize that I?m not saying anything that everyone doesn?t know already. However I think it would go along way not having to reboot every so often.

Or having the map hang the game up for a min or longer just for opening it. These kinds of things are fundamentally frustrating. The Satyr invis bug could be another example of a basic element in the game that?s not working correctly. I agree whole heartedly with Vand that the basics need to be addressed before more weight is placed on an already over taxed foundation.

I vaguely recall mention of something a long time ago called <whispers> ?The Elder system? Would something like that address the concerns and frustrations? Or just pile it on so to speak.

There are community Heralds, I?m glad to see that Aamer is trying to open up a dialogue that AE can view and yet again have another opportunity move in the right direction to meet the player base half way. (one can only hope) At the same time I don?t recall anything asking the community what they?d like to read in regards to Herald content in the forums.Small disconnect there. If a survey was held and I missed seeing it, please disregard the small point about community consensus.

South of Morning Light people worked like mad to finish the tunnel on the beach. The tunnel survived the merge, yet there was nothing regarding it one way or the other. Bunch of work and no reward to keep those that worked so hard around.. I think that was the last community effort that I?ve seen.

Lastly and in no way the least, there are the crafter and adv class issues.
Until the fundamentally inherent frustrations become an exception and not the rule, I can?t see an end to the problem Aamer has requested feedback on.

What is the one thing that would help lower my level of frustration. Bring back the big vaults. At least I would have a better shot at getting my plot completed after so many crafters have left, and I also feel that I wouldn?t need to reboot as much with less portaling. Or correct the need for restarts and leave the vaults the same.

So why do I keep on keeping on? Several reasons. I sense a more mature playerbase, possibly the most patient people on the planet and the people that I interact with on a regular basis are fine decent folks, and the graphics, spell animations included, are just plain neat!

If the developers are going to talk to the player base via IRC. Perhaps an IRC web interface link should be made available for easy access for all. A third party application and set of hoopsaren't very inviting.

My $1.98's worth, after taxes $12 [:P]

[Vahrokh]

Err... So what? Horizons in 2004 has fallen behind the features curve. It happens.

Your general consideration effectively applies to all games, and generally to all the objects.

At first they are new and diverse and fun, then after a while they become "known", then they become more and more less interesting until we drop them as "consumed".
Some of such things provide "updates" that help prolonging their lifespan even considerably.

What you forget is that yours is a nice generalistic consideration.

All the examples you bring up are about games that were produced, finished, marketed, then you see their rise, their life, their fall. The typical 18 months you state.

Horizons is different. It has been partly produced, still vastly unfinished it has been tossed into the market. It's rise lasted two months, just about the time for people to become aware that the apples they were hyped and sold not only were not that nice apples (ads effect). They were instead pears.
Such a mass reject of the game made a domino effect that effectively prevented further development. Or at least, it had relentlessy developed to fill in the enormous gaps that renedered it on the borderline of vaporware but that development, albeit due, is not the development a player expects.

A MMO player expects to start with a more or less finished product that then gets new content, new improvement etc.
Horizons instead had basically nothing but 4 or 5 newbie quest npcs. Period. Dramatic and foundations level bugs, awful lag, old and thrown in technology.
The develpers busted their arse to *develop* the game that in the beginning consisted of a map plus some keyboard arrows driven characters.
Dragons were more or less a graphic, a placeholder of what they would have been to be. A prototype with not even graphics or sounds.

They busted their arse but this prevented new content and features to be made at all.
After the initial events that probably were made before the game being pushed into the market, the content, the true content that people want, just ended.
In a game supporting players up to level 100, there was exactly 1 level 80 mob (marrows) Period. Mylocs and AoP were in too, but too few to be a backbone for players to grow with.

All these problems made Horizons a game that did not follow the nice route you want to show off.

Horizons did not last the classical 18 months. After 8 months it was already dead. Dead enough to grant a complete world remake to remove some death stench and cover the corpse with some perfumed flowers.

You cannot compare Horizons to Mario Bros or Prince of Persia.
They were actually true products, finished when sold. They had a X potential to spend in Y time.
Horizons acted like a magnesium flash. Flash and ... poof. Used, done. And not even that much of a flash. More a "plop".

The "vanity players" you like to slap, are after all dudes that pay since a year for a product which was dead on arrival.
The huge developers effort made that corpse smell better, smile, raise an arm. But as they cease a second, it drops on the floor, DEAD, smelly.

I stopped having fun with Horizons in April, at about level 50. The half or less made game just ended. Content ran out.
Unlike a vanity player I and several others bought a second yearly subscription to actively support the game, not with defiant words like we get now on us but with hard facts and money.
Unlike vanity players we endured thru the months, thru the Chapter 11, thru the bugs, thru the rollbacks, thru the downtimes, thru a game that was 20 levels x number of photocopy tiers, thru a game that after the fist two tiers was exclusively about grinding of everything... without any end.

Dragons were moreover even excluded from the grinding. Grinding stinks but at least helps in passing the months. A dragon 100 had not even the "blessing" of being able to mindlessly grind-grow.

If you think all of this is just "regular game lifecycle" and we all "mistake sustainable gameplay and character development for the fleeting interest generated by a slightly different learning curve", good for you.
Because you have little company in this opinion.

Now that the ALL races and character are slowly reaching their end of life (you can sanely grind 100 levels only so many times), the players are realizing that they are over.
Let's compare with i.e. EQ or other MMOS. After many years they are now in their descending curve, not after six months (dragons) or some more for the others.
Anyone can sense a difference?

We are not vanity players that boredly insert the next game trial to distractly skim the features and lazily dismiss them after a while.
We are in pain because we feel like to want to be excited and just at the beginning of a grand adventure but already someone rudely placed a sign saying "the end" in the middle of the road.

The game will begin to work well and fully in 6 months. The playerbase finished exploring and having fun in it six months ago. Their characters are topped now.

This is the Horizons drama. Too young of a game with too old, tired and quitting players.

[Crazyfingers]

Horizons is like a juicy cheeseburger with a hard bun. Everyone starts out saying how great the cheeseburger is and how it could be better if they would fix the bun. More people say yeah fix the bun and this burger would rock! Months go by new people try the cheeseburger and come to the same conclusion. Fix the Hard Bun! They add some extra pickles. No fix the Bun! They adda couple purple onions instead of white ones. No fix the Bun! They decide to change the cheeseburger to charlbroiled. No fix the Bun! They switch from ketchup and mustard to mayonaise. No fix the Bun! Finally everyone says screw it, Ill go to McDonalds.

My question is WHY are they notlistening?

I bought this game December of last year. Shelfed it because all the message boards came to the same conclusion that many did in Beta. The game is a treadmill with no real purpose and content was lacking among technical problems. As fate has it I got wacked by a car in March and was unable to work for 3 months. Theres only so much tv and books one can handle, so in JuneI fired up Horizons. Took me 2 weeks to solve the technical mess with my video card and the game. The game had problems and the message boards kept bitching, but I didnt mind, my goal was to catch up to the masses, make friends, and pass the time due to my injury. Really figured with all the complaining that was bein done, by the time I got my toons levels high enough there would be new things to do and improved content etc. Nope, same complaints, different month. Now these complaints are coming from the last of the last, the Horizons loyalest. If nuthing else maybe something good will come out of Aamer's post which is definitely not anything new. People have been saying these same things for a year, but maybe now the Fanbois will stop blowing them off as complainers trying to bring down a game. In reality most that are complaining, want the game to do better.

So again, Why are they not listening? I just cant figure it out. Why would you squander away a customer base, a name brand, and basically a good game by not listening to your customers?

Maybe they have oxycoton addictions and just using us for as long as possible to feed their jones. Maybe they have plans for a new and improved game. Or maybe for some reason they listened to many fanbois telling them the game was great and everyone else was just complaining.
I'm at a loss but one things for certain the games goin down in a hurry, unless they start listening. You can only eat a Cheeseburger with a hard bun for so long.

Start with fixing things that are broke, before adding more stuff that is broke.

[Jaraiden]

Well, I find it harder and harder to log in my dragon.

First my situation. My vault is stuffed with resources to get a start on a lair plot. Delayed. The players I interact with are harder to find, my Friends list is less green - Ryunaker, Gentle are there, Shadowwalker (UmbraTander, as Shadowalker has naming priority), Maltavorn, and a few others. Guild chat is much quieter, but I see little in there besides Hellos / good nights.

As I see other dragon characters level so fast (a lot of solo effort, trophy muling, small groupings, or leeching . . . hard to tell really), it gets discouraging. I sometimes do "/who"s and look around. Most say "power leveling doesn't affect me" but these same don't look around andread their various chats that show they have not been around Istaria. Besides, if such didn't affect you, there would be a lot fewer posts on that (or related) topic.

It seems many are preparing for Ancient. Which is good, unless AE makes the requirements a joke, then it will essentially be just another timesink called "Rite of Passage" (like the one to adult has become). I have my hopes high though that the Ancient RoP will truely be a worthy series of tasks.

Then, of course, is the rampant multiclassing and its unintended affects. Sure class defining characters become powerbuilt, optimal MC, combat toons, but then AE puts in monsters to give them a challenge. Well, guess what? That is content I cannot look forward to without being in a group of such toons. Where is the RP in that?

So I play my dragon character, slowly getting stronger. Resisting the temptation to get PLed. Dreading the slowness of sickle farming for needed technique resources and pawning gems to buy them from Nadia (as AE won't put in some of those monsters). All of this is for tier IV teched scales. Vahkroth posted that tier V tech resources are from da.mn hard monsters and I like to take some pride in gathering them myself or in a group I can contribute in (and yes I do look for them on consigners, like Arbotus Gullets - thanks Wylde).

The market is flooded with tier V techs because players don't seem to want to hunt tier IV monsters (I made a subtle post on that, seems level grinding to another 100 is more important then helping to support a player driven economy with tier IV techs).

True, there is no overall, community building purpose in an event created by AE. But as players able to create such are not doing so - tier IV tech hunting, coordinating repairs on community buildings (or are the bridges all done?). Besides,how many events have there been where ALL players could enjoy it (only Festival Harvest, as others involved monsters a level 20 character would naturally flee from).

So what to do?

AE refuses to fix their Evolution Engine, but it has to be fixed so they can license it more.

AE refuses to complete the Monk class into a viable one for players to enjoy.

AE refuses to complete the dragon race and ability quests for players to enjoy. This includes natural armor per lore and racial/class content that made it to the Official Strategy Guide, but not in game.

AE refuses to have some mechanism for adult dragons to gain abilities (alternate advancement system to "buy" abilities or other improvement with earned XP after 100) to be able to enjoy the game as the players MCing their biped character can. This is for the same reward for playing effort players invest in their biped characters.

AE refuses to have game mechanics to limit leechers - reduced XP bonuses, stricter XP caps,monster AI, level/rating restrictions on the portals to the Satyr islands, etc. (and state thatadult dragons below level 80 would be exploiting by flying to an area meant for characters with at least a level 100 in a school).

AE refuses to put in broad spectrum content to appeal to more level ranges, which would encourage players to level slower.

AE opts, instead, to add in tier V content (blighted items) versus fixing the above. Blighted items will slowly filter their way down to tier I . . . in time.

And guess what? More and more players want to be powerleveled to get that content.

Oh, I just canceled my subscription . . . so, one way or another, a sad face will be happy come mid February 2005.

[unironed]

Thanks Vahrokh, you're absolutely right. Horizons is different from many boxed games. Different revenue model, development cycle and marketing mix.

The comparison with Mario, Prince of Persia etc was made to demonstrate the value of brand heritage, not product quality.

Believe me: I've suffered the same bugs, downtime and lack of content as everyone else. I too pay my yearly subscription and share all the frustrations outlined in this thread.

I share Crazyfingers' astonishment at the squandering of good customer relations but think it's important to realise that this hasn't been done deliberately or through neglect: it's happened because AE have had limited resources to address the issues.

You have to extend some faith and understand the opportunity/cost of bug fixes. If they could justify fixing the 'bun' of course they would have. As it is they can only afford to change the onions, add pickle etc.. This strategy might not address your pet concerns about the game but it does address someone else's. Let's find it in our hearts to be happy for the pickle-lovers out there[:P]

I'm scattering sesame seeds around the keyboard, examining cow entrails and annointing myself with holy cheese right now - praying that the new round of funding includes a bun-fixing budget for you.

It's safe to say that no-one contributing to this discussion is a 'vanity player'. They all left long ago. This thread is testament that we'd prefer to help build a better game rather than drop it for exactly the same frustrations in a years time with a different, if slightly prettier logo (WoW/EQ2/Ryzom etc) on the splash screen.

I'm sorry but saying "Horizons is Dead" is premature, naive and really unhelpful. The history of commerce is littered with disastrous brands that got a helping hand, dusted themselves off and went on to win the war. I think there's a good chance Horizons will do exactly that...

[Hex]

You have to extend some faith and understand the opportunity/cost of bug fixes. If they could justify fixing the 'bun' of course they would have. As it is they can only afford to change the onions, add pickle etc.. This strategy might not address your pet concerns about the game but it does address someone else's. Let's find it in our hearts to be happy for the pickle-lovers out there

I fail to understand your logic here. How can it possibly be "cheaper" to add things like jack o lanterns,and haloween decorations and all of that fall festival crap than to work on the current problems in game? How can they not justify fixing the things in this game that have been broken since it was released? How can they basiclly re-engineer the entire game(the merge), yet not justify fixing the things that are broken? I will tell you how they can justify it........ They can't. I know you mean well with your post and really I don't mean to flame you, but this "just give them more time" mentality you have hasn't worked and I really do tire of hearing it.

They just add something new every couple of months hoping that will keep everyone happy for a little while.But, not Fing things, not communicating and slow or no response times to tickets put in is whats driving away the dedicated gamers daily. They don't fix, they don't communicate well enough, and quite frankly their ideas leave something to be desired.

I think we are all fed up with one aspect or another of this game, and its hard to come to grips with. We remember how much fun it was when the game was booming and how finally having a decent community really made gameplay enjoyable. We thought that this great idea to merge would bring more people together and it did just the opposite. We just keep hanging on hoping that SOMETHING is going to come along and make Horizons fun again. Honestly, I don't know that it will ever happen. I too am one thats hoping, but I really have my doubts.
Between myself and members of my family we once held 4 accounts now mine is the only one left active. I try and login and find stuff to do, but its just not the same game today as it was even 6 months ago. I think everyone is tired of waiting, tired of excuses, and tired of not knowing whats going on. I know i have always been a critic of AE, but honestly I have still hung on in hopes of improvement just like all the fanbois. I don't know, I am just starting to believe that there really is no light at the end of the tunnel.

[Senkeleron Fell]

[img]/Web/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]unironed wrote: You have to extend some faith and understand the opportunity/cost of bug fixes. If they could justify fixing the 'bun' of course they would have. As it is they can only afford to change the onions, add pickle etc.. This strategy might not address your pet concerns about the game but it does address someone else's. Let's find it in our hearts to be happy for the pickle-lovers out there

I fail to understand your logic here. How can it possibly be "cheaper" to add things like jack o lanterns,and haloween decorations and all of that fall festival crap than to work on the current problems in game? How can they not justify fixing the things in this game that have been broken since it was released? How can they basiclly re-engineer the entire game(the merge), yet not justify fixing the things that are broken? I will tell you how they can justify it........ They can't. I know you mean well with your post and really I don't mean to flame you, but this "just give them more time" mentality you have hasn't worked and I really do tire of hearing it.

One guess I would have as to how it would be "cheaper" is that it is an artist doing the additional things like pumpkins, etc, not necessarily one of their coders.All the code to support that is already in, all they have to do is make the skins and add the files. Totally different skill set than being able to go in and dink with the actual code for doing things. Almost certainly not the same person. What gets worked on depends highly on the workload of the person. Whoever does their art is probably not up to his eyeballs in bug reports. As long as there is no new functionality involved the art department can probably go about its merry way.

This is not meant to justify the bugs still in the game, just to point out that adding new things does notnecessarilyslow down thefixing of problems.

[Vahrokh]

What keeps such "contents guy" from adding a ding sound or at least a single copied animation so a dragon fight is something better than a deaf, mute and blind event?

Why such "contents guy" cannot ar.se himself at re-enable the sound effects that are already in game but now don't fire up any more when you fight?

[unironed]

Senkeleron Fell - you're absolutely right. Their programming resource has been tied up with server merges, plot auctions and adressing show-stopping bugs. That leaves the lone content guy doing err... Winter Festival! Which I have to say is quite a laugh - had a snowball fight in Kion last night - great fun, did give me a taste for PvP tho....

Vahrokh - Guess our lone content designer wasn't briefed on audio before the guys that did it that got sacked [:(] I'm sure he could be 'ar.ed', if only he know how. I'm a little surprised to see a RetroMUD fan like you writing that the game's ruined because of a bit of missing audio! "There are exists (N)orth, (E)ast. There is a lamp here. You hear the swooshing of dragons wings from the East..."

this "just give them more time" mentality you have hasn't worked and I really do tire of hearing it

Hex - Well that mentallity obviously has worked because the game's come on leaps and bounds since launch. If you're tired of being reminded of the bigger-picture now, I dread to think about how you'll be feeling in 6 months time. I think its going to be at least that long before we start seeing a bulk of players returning.

Might be even longer.... Horizons II anyone?

[Anikitos]

Senkeleron Fell - you're absolutely right. Their programming resource has been tied up with server merges, plot auctions and adressing show-stopping bugs. That leaves the lone content guy doing err... Winter Festival! Which I have to say is quite a laugh - had a snowball fight in Kion last night - great fun, did give me a taste for PvP tho....

Vahrokh - Guess our lone content designer wasn't briefed on audio before the guys that did it that got sacked [img]/Web//emoticons/emotion-6.gif[/img] I'm sure he could be 'ar.ed', if only he know how. I'm a little surprised to see a RetroMUD fan like you writing that the game's ruined because of a bit of missing audio! "There are exists (N)orth, (E)ast. There is a lamp here. You hear the swooshing of dragons wings from the East..."

this "just give them more time" mentality you have hasn't worked and I really do tire of hearing it

Hex - Well that mentallity obviously has worked because the game's come on leaps and bounds since launch. If you're tired of being reminded of the bigger-picture now, I dread to think about how you'll be feeling in 6 months time. I think its going to be at least that long before we start seeing a bulk of players returning.

Might be even longer.... Horizons II anyone?

Inorder for Horizons II to happen , Horizons I needs to be successfull.
In your opinion, you think Horizons is successfull?

Imo, it did well to get ppl hooked the first months.
But how many players do you think are active on our 2 servers...
A couple of 1000 on both Order and Unity?

I wont say anything about WoW's playerbase, but its a "little" bigger.
Bigger playerbase = more money
More money = hopefully a better game and most likely more content.
Now, compare what WoW has to offer in BETA with what HZ has to offer after 1 year live...

Checked Dark & Lights forums and saw they had, 140000 registered users.
Thats right, 140k members at their forums.
Hz has 2000+ on our forums.
The game is not released yet.
Did a little research and saw ingame videos of the game, made my head spin.

I checked Mourning aswell, awesome concept for an online game and there are no levels. Absolutely awesome concept and a very intriquing game indeed.

Vanguard, same deal there.

What these games have in common is this:

1. They are newer then Horizons.
2. They will offer something different then what HZ has to offer.
3. Lets face it, ppl allways seek something new to get them interested.

That ofcource does not mean that those games will live up to the expectations.
They might, they might not. Who knows.

For me personally, i used to like HZ alot.
I still like it to some degree, i just feel there is nothing for me to do ingame.
After i hit my 5th 100 class i will stop lvling untill they raise the cap, which ofcource means untill that happens i wont have anything to do.

Since the game has absolutely nothing to offer a high lvl player like me, in terms of raids, loot, "pvp", contentor whatever...i reached the end game and accomplished everything there is for a pure adv.
That includes the best weapons, best armor, best spells...best equip.
There is no way for me to improve my chr unless i take on yet another class.
But seriously whats the point to do that.
I can allready solo anything ingame(all mobs and all bosses easy) with little or no difficulty or even dmg taken on some lvl 120 mobs.

Blight Anchors? Done them several times.
Wont keep me interested enough to stay.

For the time being i am staying in Horizons but i will jump on one of those new games to try them out, keeping ofcource my HZ account.
If one of those games proves to be as good as i think it is i will ofcource have to take a break from HZ...perhaps a very long break.

Thats what happens when a player has nothing elseto do ingame that is worth his time, he moves on.

Before you say: "Cya kthxbye", know that i started playing HZ about 380 days ago or something and left HZ when there was only marrows to kill.
Returned to the game some months ago.
I like to see HZ work but that does not mean i will be blind to the upcoming games.

Its up to HZ to catch my interest and keep me interested.



Anikitos

[unironed]

Too right, WoW has a huge level of interest. Some of my seniors in The Grey Company are in the EU beta and are BIG, BIG fans.... I'm definately going to give it try - so see you in there!

What I'm hoping (and my original post could have been clearer on this) is that when we've reached the level cap in WoW and are posting 'I've done everything there is to do, this is crap now, need a fresh challenge (above)'.... Tulga games release Horizons II.

It's a frighteningly common misconception that bad products damage a brand irreparably. It just isn't true. Windows 3.0, Palm I... You're in the EU - you remember Skoda? It only took one model (aided by VW cash and know-how) to undo 20+ years of the auto industy's laughing stock.

Horizons has established a heritage to build on, let's hope they get the right funding partners to grow the next product with... because I for one would love to see Istaria triumph.