Formula Book Limitation

[Fel Tir]

Wondering what other Blighters feel about this topic?

Here is my opinion. You can take all the other issues I've seen and lump them together and they don't add up to the form book limit issue.

I know there are real database limitations, but there are ways around that.One possible work around would be to make the next higher level form include all tiered items up to that point. For example, the Expert form could allow the creation of beginner, journeyman, and expert. One form in lieu of three.

It does not make sense to me that I have to delete knowledge that I worked hard to get, and lower level knowledge at that, in order to make higher level items. That to me is directly in opposition to RPGing and the theme of Horizons.When a level 1 asks for something, I have to say no can't make it andthen explain the whole thing.Maybe I should go back to stubby pencil and paper days?

[HratLi]

Holy cow!

Place that suggestion into Suggestions!

That's a GREAT idea! That would cut down my form list by over 1/2... :O
Beginner/Jman/Expert.

-HratLi

[Katrone Fyrewalker]

I too find this a serious problem, one that far out weighs most others. While this maybe a database problem, I'm sure work arounds can be found. I cannot imagine having to delete my tier 1 tools, weapons etc. that a newer player will need me to make. I worked so hard for each and every beginner lore tokenonly to delete, I think not.

or how about a quest or Graduation of sorts wherewhen becomming a Expert that all beginner and journeyman forms become 1 as Fel suggests Insted of 1-2 and 3-4 they would become 1-4.

I don't claim to know any answers but Plz Plz look into this problem, it really hurts.

Katrone Fyrewalker
100 KNOC
Blight

[Gunz]

I totally agree. I know that I spent many days acquiring the tokens needed just to purchase these forms and todelete them due to limitations is unacceptable. There is a need to have all forms from beginner to expert for obvious reasons. AE has to find a way to fix this dilema.

[Jaraiden]

As Henry posted in a similar subject . . . just keep the formulas in your inventory (say in a formula pack) and double click on them to use.

It works, try it.

Search is your friend.

Besides, shouldn't there be a limit to how much a character knows. Multiclassing is a feature, but doesn't mean AE will put in game mechanisms for unlimited multiclassing (as in over 750 formulas, over 750 techniques, and/or hotkeys to more easily switch tools and gather/create items).

[Fel Tir]

Actually I did try it and it did not work.So I had to delete Beginner forms to learn Experts. Knew about this, and did not like it andstill don't. Vault and inventory has an item stack limit, and all those forms would quickly max it.

Totally disagree, I have been playing rpg since before the original text based zork, back when we did it with paper. And I don't ever remember playing one that made you lose knowledge to gain more. It is fantasy, you don't forget things as you get older as IRL andeven IRL Idon't throw things out of my memory to learn new ones...they just kinda been fading away...

This is essential to RPGing, the heart ofwhich is developing your character and progressing it, both in level and knowledge.

I also believe this suggestion is the best, far better than uselessly maxing out your vault or personal inventory stack count, plus it just makes sense, a higher level crafter should be able to make everything a lower level can, and the skill allows you to, obviously even this game recognizes that, the only limitation is the form book.

[BKBanzai]

OMG!

You get 750 form limit...

Increase the spell book limit from 100 spells to 500 spells ifcrafters get 750...PLUS TECHNIQUES?

This is one of the MOST annoying facets of the game. I'm a cleric/druid, I like to be able to buff players from level 20 to level 100...gives me a nice sense of do-gooding....

And I can't...can't enhance them, can't gift them, sucks, really....another thing to delineate the lines between the higher level players and the lower level players, no need to interact/help them, because I can't.

so please...increase the spell book limit to at least double, if not to 500....

[HratLi]

Heya, open up a suggestion ticket on it. From my understanding that helps a lot more than saying things on this forum, or if you can be on IRC that seems to be the BEST way of getting action. I know that I am hitting the limit with just Spirit Disciple and a little healing. I can't imagine multi classing to real spell casting classes and some healing.

-HratLi

[Guaran]

In case you haven't seen it, a thread on this topic here: http://community.istaria.com/Web/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=50391has some good ideas.

Guaran

[cauri_order]

I actually like the limit on forms. It's about the only way to make sure that a single character can make every single item in the game. Kinda kills the MMO part of a MMOG don't it?

Do you want everybody to be a one man crafting army?

[Fel Tir]

If you earn it, you should be able to do it, otherwise it takes the rpg out of mmorpg. Not everyone will earn it thus the mmo is preserved.

[cauri_order]

Most are earning it now. It's not a huge issue for me because my craft classes are split amongst characters (one for stone/gems/metal, one for wood, essence, organic).

That's about the only limit there is to multiclassed crafting. Like I said, if they remove it, we'll have the potential for one man craft armies who have no need for others.

Since Horizons is a player-oriented economy, reliance on other crafters is a key component to making the economy work.

But, as in any MMO, he who screams loudest wins.

[Snowdonia Honeythorn]

Just because the potential is there and there will indeed be people who can do it all does not mean that everyone will do it all. JoATs are few in comparison to those who only take on one or few crafts. JoATs won't kill any economy anytime soon if ever.

[cauri_order]

with teh potential there, many will follow the route, mainly for lack of something better to do. That's the main reason we've seen 10x100 bipeds running around since merge. Didn't see that pre-merge (due to many reason, one being lack of high level mobs and other reasons that have been beaten to death).

Given enough time and lack of something to do, people WILL grind out the craft levels.

Like I said, it'll come down to who screams loudest......those who want some sort of cap on crafting and those who don't.

[magius]

With the HUGH lack of certain crafting classes online or hiding, it only makes sence tobecome your one-man-army.

My guild has been looking for a weaver for 3 months, if you have the gold please donate it to us so we can use these weavers. We have opted to have our wood worker do weaving.

Thank you.

[Fel Tir]

Yeah, depending upon the individuals desire, some players will max their toon out to whatever itis, whether it takesone toon or ten,one day or ten years,one school or twenty.The game limitations apply to everyone, but not everyone has the same definition of fun and inherent desire/drive not to mention variances in time avaialble to have that fun. And thats the beauty of it, some will and others won't to various levels. Same with adventuring and combinations of adventuring and crafting. Thats the way it has been in every rpg or mmorpg I've ever played. The ones that held my interest the longest, were the ones that had the widest horizons, greatest potential and fewest limitations. The balances and tradeoffswith the whole "multi-class" content issue has been discussed to death on many different forums in many different games, including this one not surprisingly. The Devs have access to the data for compiling heuristics on those issues and have been doing a great job IMO. LOL, but while amusing, here I am derailing my own thread while there are so many threads, even here on this site, on those other issues :(.

Backon topic.It doesn't take masteringvery many craft schools to hit the formula book limit. The only logical reason I have heard for the formula book limitation is due to database capability. I believe this suggestionwould lower the stress on the database and solve the formula book limitation. If it does, the game will be better for it and other things will improve as well. If it doesn't,thenwewillthink of othersuggestions that could, not work-arounds. We alreadyuse a very simple work around:do token runs anddelete and scribe beginner/journeyman forms on an as needed basis. One of the keyelements that distinguishes Horizons is the depth and breadth of crafting available to your toon. And I believe that depth and breadth of craftingis a key element that keeps many of us that like to craft around. Its high time to polish it off IMO. So what I'd really like to know (from TG), is will this suggestion solve the formula book limitation and lower the stress on the database or not?

[Vlisson]

my personal view is that no player should try to master all craft classes!

if you get 2-3 craft classes at maximum than its real much stuff you can craft alone

is there a real need to master 10 craft schools AND be able to craft everything from beginner up to master?

you are a specialist, a profi and no all-rounder anymore

maybe this posts should be moved to discussions?

[Fel Tir]

Disagree, many already can, the game allows you to do itand this is a need that has already been established. Instead of hijacking this thread which is focused on how to do it, not why it shouldn't, start another.

[Doombreak]

Already said somewhere else but this issue needs sorting out - i hit the form cap only 2day and i havent even started expert yet!! I wont removed beginner forms becaus eof my friends who need items crafting like tools etc seems unless somethign is done ive hit a dead end in the craft sector

[Snowdonia Honeythorn]

Either the limit should be increased or they code in the ability to combine same-type formulae of different sets. As I've stated before elsewhere on these boards, it isn't very masterful if being a "Master" (or even Expert) craftsman means not being able to craft all items of your given school.

If I have the Beginner Quint's Quickstep Potion and the Journeyman Quint's Quickstep Potion formulae scribed I should be able to simultaneously highlight both in the knowledge window, right click one while both are highlighted and select an option from the drop down menu Combine Formulae. A new window would popup (much like the scribe window) with the formulae you had highlighted listed and with a final click of the Combine button the two formulae would become one entry (maybe Quint's Quickstep Potion Tiers I - IV). If any of the formulae chosen to combine were not same-type formulae the combine would be denied stating "Cannot combine! One or more of the selected formulae do not match."

I'm not sure how hard that would be to code in but at least it would utilize windows and some properties already in use in the game.