Helping or not helping?

[Exavier]

Exavier wrote:...
Understand that I do wish to help people, I will do that however it is possible, I give away tools, spells and whatever I can make for free as long as its tier I.
...

Think of those beginner crafters that are proud of selling their flaxen cloth tunic for a few coppers.

Economy sucks if nobody is willing to pay but wants tohave everything for free.

Saphosar.

I saw this post by Sap, but unfortunately AFTER my thread was hi-jacked and made into a ********** thread.

I think he (she?) is bringing up a very good point. Is it a help to make weapons and so on for free? I still think so because it is not very often that I do, I do if I see anyone needing weapons or tools, however I often see the consigners empty at NB ect. Then again, it is the only way to make proper money when starting out so is it a help or is it an annoyance that us high-levels make weapons and tools for free to help out?

Just a question I pondered

[dunkelzahn]

greetings i wont answer the whole raange of these
huge broadband topic field you open with this
jsut this little branch of it
Helping or not helping/ would they honor their "tools" from these kind of deed if they get it for free ?


i dontthink they would as my mother told me once :


Son what ppl get for free they dont value they dont care for since it was easy toget they think they can get any kind of replacement as easly as before ,
what they needed to pay for that they will value and take care off so do take a little fee and then ...


in review of this game i have done it this way mostly i sell tier 1 stuff for 100c or less

even then i give them in advance of payment

i repent sometimes i get weak then i give stuff for free if i see a nice cahr name or a little one who has no rating at all

but thats the normal way i hope you can live with it ?

greetings dunkel and family

[Lystiga]

Hi Exavier,

I'm thinking that helping and filling up the Beginnertowns or Consis around Istaria is a good idea,
but giving away for nothing (I did sometimes) is general maybe not so good, Lowlevel Crafter have to earn money too, and they should do the lowlvl work. > 50 should maybe not take that work from them, cause its motivating ?

Lystiga

[Vahrokh]

Judging by the fact that if someone needs spells I begs on market for 1 hour, there are not that many low level crafters, nor higher level crafters bothering to make such low level stuff. So in the end when I see that none answers for a while a repeated request I make the spells I.

[Demelza Flameclaw]

ive spent alot of time helpign people in the past, this comes from crafting tools to helping them learn to hunt by making a newbie char and hunting with them answering any questions they have, the hard part is keeping places stocked because items dont stack on consis (major annoyance there) you cant really put much up i used to sell tools for 50c each on the consis and they went really well but i could only put 2 or so of each type of low level tool i could make

[Daedra]

I try my best to put tier 1 draggy spells on NB consig, just to help out the newbies as ive seen some charging silly prices for them (1s for a tier 1 spells is nuts....).

[Vanaondo]

Dunkel has a point really. But it depends also who you make stuff to really.

For members of our RP guild, it is easy. We trade things between us and we help eachothers and we dont use any coins between us. If I reqruit new members, they get full equiped for free, no doubt.

[Lystiga]

Same in our Guild...
Members never pay to other Members if they need stuff, doesn't matter how high the stuff is.

Lystiga

[watts]

If asked I have created items/setsforlevel 1 to 20 players and if I had the resources in my vault then these havebeen for free.

I think, after reading some threads on this area, that I will now change my view on Tier 1 itemsto:[*]Items are free if the resources areprovided, or[*]Items are paid forat a reduced market rate.[/list]

The timescale for delivery will also depend on my current activity. If I'm crafting then it should be a short delay otherwise if I'm culling it mightbe delayed until the next day.

This applies to non Guild members only.

[Korial]

What I'm about to say here also touches upon what Vahrokh said in his (very good, imho) post:

The bottom line is very simple. There is nothing wrong with supplying people with 'free' stuff, nor charging for it, when you're a high level crafter. It doesn't steal business away from low level crafters. Why? It's very simple: if the low level crafters pulled their thumbs out of the behinds and actually stocked consigners, accepted orders, replied to market requests then high level crafters wouldn't need to be involved at all.

It's not the fault of the high level crafters either 'ruining' the economy by crafting for free or overcharging. It's the fault of the low level crafters to fill that lack of supply or to offer goods at sensible prices.

Personally, I flat out refuse to supply T1 and T2 fletched goods. If I did, then doing it for free, 500c, or 2s makes no difference to me really. I'd much rather someone who is currently working that tier dealt with the request.

[saphosar]

Well, when I posted my first comment about "'higher level chars crafting for free' vs 'lower level chars having to sell'" I never intended to say "crafting for free is bad in general" and when looking at the consigners I can still find almost everything starting from t1.

My intention had only been to make people think about lower level crafters and don't do everything for free.

Of course guild members will get nice thing from me for free (actually only 1 char of a person to force them a little bit to think about multiclassing instead of starting a new char every week [6] -except good friends of course).
Other chars will usually have to pay a little fee (which is in most cases below the price they would have to pay at the consigner, but I don't sell them for almost nothing to make sure they understand that I spend some time making all these nice things (even if I can get enough bronze bars for more than 2 complete armor sets with one run, it's still some work to do).

Anyway, since the update introducing all those nice trophies, prices got a little bit more realistic comparing teched and common items and I hope ae will keep it up to have many very rare trophies in the game to avoid that teched items become to common.

A little bit out of topic: But wouldn't it be interesting to have some kind of inverse consigner ? For example you go to this npc and select the item you want and the price you want to pay for. Everybody crafting can trade with this npc and get the money while the requested item is returned to your vault ? Some kind of ingame-bulleting boad would be nice too, for example "Saphosar states that he needs a platinum jewelery set with ... and is willing to pay 200s on delivery".


Saphosar

[dunkelzahn]

Korial said
Personally, I flat out refuse to supply T1 and T2 fletched goods. If I did, then doing it for free, 500c, or 2s makes no difference to me really. I'd much rather someone who is currently working that tier dealt with the request.
[/quote]

greetings its a difference

sadly as low level you dont earn much money form loots or their parts so i think prices for tier 1 should not be higher than 1000 c even tier 2 shouldnormaly n ot cross this range
(standard non teched items)

why the low levels dont dont do it no clue sorry bad in guessing

but you are right if they dont do it then high level can fill the gap
yes they should fill inthe gap

working for free
nice habit but atleast we loose time .... but if its for guildies certainly for other "beloved/ liked persons" not known ppl who ask "demanding " ? see my post above
with
items out of vault ... had tobe gathered before or now to fill it again so timeconsuming

fresh gathered items also time consuming

a little fee should be allowed



greetings dunkel and family


p.s.
here a reminder of my standing policies of habit
(schould be known by now )
schould you be on ice and want some spells listen inmarket event , unity comunnity each day i get in i inform that i open my spell book , for all of you bring me the needed stuff andsave me the time i need for gathering and you get the crafted thing for free
if i can make it
[schould it be spells check the market post from me ]
but make me gathering things and i demand a price as normal
for spells scales dragon backpacks pls use my spellorderchannel or pst

second greetings and good bye dunkel and family

[dunkelzahn]

Korial said
Personally, I flat out refuse to supply T1 and T2 fletched goods. If I did, then doing it for free, 500c, or 2s makes no difference to me really. I'd much rather someone who is currently working that tier dealt with the request.
[/quote]

greetings its a difference

sadly as low level you dont earn much money form loots or their parts so i think prices for tier 1 should not be higher than 1000 c even tier 2 shouldnormaly n ot cross this range
(standard non teched items)

why the low levels dont dont do it no clue sorry bad in guessing

but you are right if they dont do it then high level can fill the gap
yes they should fill inthe gap

working for free
nice habit but atleast we loose time .... but if its for guildies certainly for other "beloved/ liked persons"
YES NOW WAHT IAM WAITING FOR SURE
not known ppl who ask "demanding " ? see my post above
with
items out of vault ... had tobe gathered before or now to fill it again so timeconsuming

fresh gathered items also time consuming

a little fee should be allowed



greetings dunkel and family


p.s.
here a reminder of my standing policies of habit
(schould be known by now )
schould you be on ice and want some spells listen inmarket event , unity comunnity each day i get in i inform that i open my spell book , for all of you bring me the needed stuff andsave me the time i need for gathering and you get the crafted thing for free
if i can make it
[schould it be spells check the market post from me ]
but make me gathering things and i demand a price as normal
for spells scales dragon backpacks pls use my spellorderchannel or pst

second greetings and good bye dunkel and family

[metagruen]

The one and simple answer might be that there are not really that many low-level crafters.

Sure, there might be some crafters with a "low" school level... but they usually have a bunchload of others schools on their back.

I can't recall to have seen many new players come to the game. So in fact there isn't a real low-level-market.

We got alts, mules, and a lot of people usually join guilds soon anyway , where they get there stuff.

I was surprised tho, that when I was gathering hide strips one day and put some rough leather BP on the NV connie, they were sold very fast... but for a price of 500cc even alts buy these before they ask their guild tailor to do them.

When I started I could earn my first coins with goods on connie. When I got 30+ tailor I made a small fortune by doing lots of cloth armor (was the month when dryads were available) and all of them wanted to go mage and bought my flaxen armor like crazy :)

But today.... if crafters craft for money, they use pB runs. simple that is. it's the truth.

[Thorgat]

I have always filled consigner at newbie towns - but only for a reasonable price I took as new crafter too and only stuff that wasn't available before. Apart from that I think making whole time complete sets is killing every newbie crafter start up. Just fill what is rare and ask for money so you are not dumping crafter that do that as level related work.

[Vindra]

I am one of the "low level crafters" - highest craft school is 43 Carpenter, followed by 36 weaver on a different toon - and I do cover many crafts between my 5 toons. I gave up selling things on consigners long ago - it just don't pays off. Sometimes, when I'm in a levelling frenzy, I make a load of things I can do and stuff them unto consigners, just to see at least 50% returning to my vault a while later.. the only things that really sell is clothing - as it seems not too many people still put social clothing on connies..

Nowadays I either work on /tell or for people I meet hunting with me - as my guild is dead - and usually I do not ask for much more than the porting fee for the stuff I make. At least, when I don't have to go on extended harvesting to make it.

There is no real market on HZ.. there never will be. The same discussion has been on the boards since the start of the game.

[Sunuke]

I dunno about there not being a market, I do know it is hard for a noob to find the stuff needed.

I used to place stuff on the connie with T1 and T2 tools and when i get them back 3 to 4 times into my vault then I really think a second or third time to do it again.

Then there came the point I didn´t make T1 stuff just to make space for the lower lvl crafters.

With my current char I choose to go construction just so I could build stuff for myself and guild. Construction work is still and always have been paid really bad so I see no reason to build for others. There are a few ppl outside of guild i do build for aslong as they get me the resources thou.

There are alot of players that rather beg like a young bird does then make money and buy what they were begging for.

This is one of the big problems we have these days. My only reaction towards these beggars is plain and simple. Ignore
I don´t put them on ignore and I am proud to have nobody in my ignore list but it´s more like conveiniantly not seeing their begging. Sure we can give in just to be rid of them but this will only tell them to try it again the next time. and again. and again. and again.

I hope we as a community can solve these kind of things and if not then I hope that I still can have alot of fun with the ppl I have been enjoying this game with over the past year.