Feedback on Changes to Multiple Enemy Experiance

[Dragonboy]

Does it help to keep existing players from not quitting this game earlier?


I know of 3 that quit due to the rampant powerlevelling and the consequences that this brings to the community.

So, yes, calming the powerlevelling will keep good players in, leechers will get a little incentive to quit. Can't say I am displeased at both.

And no, I don't see an urge in keeping powerleechers just to grab some more penny in subscriptions. Better no game than crap game.

Personally I only know about 1 person who quit because of the leeching and powerleveling, but that beside the point...
Any method of putting a halt to leeching and the extreme powerleveling of newbies to lvl 100 is good, as long as the idea of "me <20 lvl from mob = 0 xp" only counts for group actions and also depending on a few factors...

Thanks to my high craft levelI have a nice collection of mostly triple teched T5 scales and while I am only lvl 67 adventure I managed to solo kill a lvl 96 emerald golem last night and also a dozen peridot golems have died already...
I will never brag about this, sureI amproud, but I took a risk and I got lucky...
I wont say that I always win, sometimes I win, other times I lose and die (and end up on top of the dralk shrine [;)])
One moment I kill a lvl 95 golem and the other I get killed by a pair of winter grouk/grulet (mostly for getting overconfident and fail to look at the healthbar [:$])
My point being it would be no fun taking so many risks if there is no reward...

Even when in a group I can hold my own against many mobs lvl 90+ or atleast cause a reasonable damage and when not rewarded properly for the high amount of hoard I burn for my risks it will make adventuring even more boring and annoying then I think it allready is now

[Vahrokh]

Nice to see the ones talking about lack of community usually tend to be the rude ones screaming nerf.

As it stands now we have a completely broken game which can't seem to get fixed no matter how hard the devs try and never will if they spend more time trying to drive away the existing playerbase with nerfs rather than try fixing bugs...say such as...walking dead, broken guildhouse storage, negative experience totals, broken spells, forms not showing details, missing quests, missing formulas...and I can think of quite a few more...oh and did I forget to mention the 20 to 30 mobs that jump on me all at once due to a combination of lag and the "superb" (read[img]/Web/emoticons/emotion-7.gif[/img]arcasm) new spawn system we've received. I usually find myself dead due to huge golem spawn (platinum and cobalt) due to them being invisible as they all appear at once !!!

Oops almost forgot to mention that with evasion still broken that's another "risk" we fail to be "rewarded" for.

You don't build community by encouraging leeching. It works quite the opposite.
As for the completely broken game, this is your opinion that developers spend their time nerfing it. Try logging on IRC some time and bring your points,observations, constructive criticism and suggestionsinstead of listing the still much work to do.
Work that is done by different groups that are not impacted by such a chage, which involves an huge addition of 2 lines of code in 5 minutes.

Yesterday Amon and us talked for a very long time on the future of some mobs and how we'd like they behaved. Next time jump in - all it costs is downloading a free software - and contribute instead of crying in an angle like the world's falling.

Btw evasion works perfectly, it's just some mobs who are overpumped with it.
The stun system has more troubles instead but once again, no active feedback (tickets, chat), no fix.

The developers are all for fixing the broken stuff if someone bothers telling them. No magic wand tells them what's not working but reports and IRC chat (forums don't give them enough precise information to work on errors).

When you'll see the next Bligtht patchnotes with an huge list of minor / annoying problems listed as resolved, expecially for dragons and monks, it's my contribution - given skipping hours of sleep (and I do have job and family stuff [;)]) - and Korial's.

We, the rude ones who bother tangibly to help.

Notice:

[Vahrokh]

Nice to see the ones talking about lack of community usually tend to be the rude ones screaming nerf.

As it stands now we have a completely broken game which can't seem to get fixed no matter how hard the devs try and never will if they spend more time trying to drive away the existing playerbase with nerfs rather than try fixing bugs...say such as...walking dead, broken guildhouse storage, negative experience totals, broken spells, forms not showing details, missing quests, missing formulas...and I can think of quite a few more...oh and did I forget to mention the 20 to 30 mobs that jump on me all at once due to a combination of lag and the "superb" (read[img]/Web/emoticons/emotion-7.gif[/img]arcasm) new spawn system we've received. I usually find myself dead due to huge golem spawn (platinum and cobalt) due to them being invisible as they all appear at once !!!

Oops almost forgot to mention that with evasion still broken that's another "risk" we fail to be "rewarded" for.

You don't build community by encouraging leeching. It works quite the opposite.
As for the completely broken game, this is your opinion that developers spend their time nerfing it. Try logging on IRC some time and bring your points,observations, constructive criticism and suggestionsinstead of listing the still much work to do.
Work that is done by different groups that are not impacted by such a change, which involves an huge addition of 2 lines of code in 5 minutes.

Yesterday Amon and us talked for a very long time on the future of some mobs and how we'd like they behaved. Next time jump in - all it costs is downloading a free software - and contribute instead of crying in an angle like the world's falling.

Btw evasion works perfectly, it's just some mobs who are overpumped with it and others who have exceeding high chance to hit.
The stun system has more troubles instead but once again, no active feedback (tickets, chat), no fix.

The developers are all for fixing the broken stuff if someone bothers telling them. No magic wand tells them what's not working but reports and IRC chat (forums don't give them enough precise information to work on errors and they very often ask for more details live).

When you'll see the next Blight patchnotes with an huge list of minor / annoying problems listed as resolved, expecially for dragons and monks, it's my contribution - given skipping hours of sleep (and I do have job and family stuff [;)]) - and Korial's.

We, the rude ones who bother tangibly to help.

Notice: before pulling all the hairs stop a second and bother reading what Smeglor (thru Dangit) posted: you won't almost ever reach that "cap" alone but in two situations:

- Pulling an entire spawn of mobs giving you 500 exp each to achieve 3k exp each off the bonus, like it happens when a level90 pulls an entire tier III spawn.
Usually denying legitimate level 50 players to hunt in there.

- Sitting still at Elnath and leeching, getting 20k exp a mob just by being there.

Once again, cannot see anything negative in it. Maybe coupled with level blocked Sathyr isles for < level 80 and fixed 0 exp in all the line if any group member is 40 levels higher than the leecher that just left the tutorial room but has hardcoded the path to Sathyr isles.

[Gunnyr]

Nice to see the ones talking about lack of community usually tend to be the rude ones screaming nerf.

As it stands now we have a completely broken game which can't seem to get fixed no matter how hard the devs try and never will if they spend more time trying to drive away the existing playerbase with nerfs rather than try fixing bugs...say such as...walking dead, broken guildhouse storage, negative experience totals, broken spells, forms not showing details, missing quests, missing formulas...and I can think of quite a few more...oh and did I forget to mention the 20 to 30 mobs that jump on me all at once due to a combination of lag and the "superb" (read[img]/Web/emoticons/emotion-7.gif[/img]arcasm) new spawn system we've received. I usually find myself dead due to huge golem spawn (platinum and cobalt) due to them being invisible as they all appear at once !!!

Oops almost forgot to mention that with evasion still broken that's another "risk" we fail to be "rewarded" for.


You don't build community by encouraging leeching. It works quite the opposite.
As for the completely broken game, this is your opinion that developers spend their time nerfing it. Try logging on IRC some time and bring your points,observations, constructive criticism and suggestionsinstead of listing the still much work to do.
Work that is done by different groups that are not impacted by such a change, which involves an huge addition of 2 lines of code in 5 minutes.

Yesterday Amon and us talked for a very long time on the future of some mobs and how we'd like they behaved. Next time jump in - all it costs is downloading a free software - and contribute instead of crying in an angle like the world's falling.

Btw evasion works perfectly, it's just some mobs who are overpumped with it and others who have exceeding high chance to hit.
The stun system has more troubles instead but once again, no active feedback (tickets, chat), no fix.

The developers are all for fixing the broken stuff if someone bothers telling them. No magic wand tells them what's not working but reports and IRC chat (forums don't give them enough precise information to work on errors and they very often ask for more details live).

When you'll see the next Blight patchnotes with an huge list of minor / annoying problems listed as resolved, expecially for dragons and monks, it's my contribution - given skipping hours of sleep (and I do have job and family stuff [img]/Web//emoticons/emotion-5.gif[/img]) - and Korial's.

We, the rude ones who bother tangibly to help.



Notice: before pulling all the hairs stop a second and bother reading what Smeglor (thru Dangit) posted: you won't almost ever reach that "cap" alone but in two situations:

- Pulling an entire spawn of mobs giving you 500 exp each to achieve 3k exp each off the bonus, like it happens when a level90 pulls an entire tier III spawn.
Usually denying legitimate level 50 players to hunt in there.

- Sitting still at Elnath and leeching, getting 20k exp a mob just by being there.

Once again, cannot see anything negative in it. Maybe coupled with level blocked Sathyr isles for < level 80 and fixed 0 exp in all the line if any group member is 40 levels higher than the leecher that just left the tutorial room but has hardcoded the path to Sathyr isles.

Call me old fashioned but I like reporting my bugs through the old-fashioned route (that's what trouble tickets are for I hear). IRC has always worked like crap for me and I tend to find it not very secure at all.

First off the only time I've ever gone to the Satyr islands is when the quest had first arrived. I've never gone back there. I see no reason to as I don't rush to get my levels. My main is lvl 77 after just about a year of gameplay on Spirit daily (about 5 hrs a day). I could have gone farther but I'm in no rush and it will come in time. My other 4 characters have not seen level 30 at all with most of them not even seeing 20. I don't rush because I don't need to or even want to. I'll go as far as saying the only reason my main is so high in his adventure classis due to being a tier 4 mason and tier 4 fitter, he was able to handle the mobs well enough to mine until the new spawn system came in.

As the above states, I haven't reached a single level 100 due to knowing I really will have nowhere to go after that as I'm not into all the hoopla. When I get there I will get there or like in UO I may decide I don't need to go there at all. I would rather have a jack-of-all trades character than a multiple gm/100. It keeps the challenge there and me on my toes.

As far as the way others play the game, as long as it's not against the rules it means jack to me. I don't get jealous of others surpassing me, it's thier choice if they want to play that way. They're shortcutting themselves not me. It's thier playstyle and they're welcome to it. There is no pvp here so it shouldn't be an issue to anyone who doesn't have an ego problem.

You can't force community. You can't force your playstyle on others, they should have a right to choose. If they keep within the boundaries of the actual TOS/Rules more power to them. If they're rushing to get to level 100, they're probably gonna quit on thier own of boredom soon anyway or would quit on the way to level 100 if they find they can't get there fast enough for themselves.

Back to the bugs thing. I have reported the bugs both here and on tickets. It's been 3 months now and multiple tickets and I've only got "it's a known issue" or "we're looking into it" back in reply. Unfortunately the main one (walking dead) has been mentioned fixed in the last 2 patches yet I (and numerous others) are still dying the same way to it. And it's on multiple mob types not just the Kwellen/Blightsthe devsthought it was exclusive to.

[Aquarius]

...never let more monsters aggro you than you can gain xp for through multi-enemy. Why should we gain no extra xp for the extra monsters that jump on us ?.

If the you hit the xp roof on the 10th mob, wont you get the same xp (max) on the 11th mob ? If so what are you complaining about ?

[AA0]

The changes are a step in the right direction, but the very slow response has already done its damage to the community.

The only other thing that needs to be done is prevent the leeching, because it can and will still happen. The formula can not be based on group's rating, that is pretty absurd. You need to compare current ratings to the mob rating, but a flat number won't work either I think. 25 Levels to a level 1 character and 25 levels to a level 100 character are just not the same.

Once the events come back, and they better pretty soon.... the community will have a chance to rebuild itself.

[Helcat]

Goodchanges... but a little late. We already have
a coupleguilds full of powerleveled elitists on Order
who've spent the lastfew months PL-ingeachother
(despite their claims to the contrary) and will now
only further benefit by pulling up the ladder, thus
preserving their obnoxious "bragging rights" and
borderline-griefing behavior. Personally, I don't
care much that they took the easy way out to
get their levels. I earned mine the hard way and
can hunt as well as anyone with a rating 50 above
my own. It's the elitist attitude toward younger
players, or even those who've been around for a
year but choose not to race through the content,
that erodes the sense of community we used to
enjoy prior to the merge.

But as initially stated, good changes, just too late.


=^.^=

[Gwynnifer ApHelion]

Nice to see the ones talking about lack of community usually tend to be the rude ones screaming nerf.

As it stands now we have a completely broken game which can't seem to get fixed no matter how hard the devs try and never will if they spend more time trying to drive away the existing playerbase with nerfs rather than try fixing bugs...say such as...walking dead, broken guildhouse storage, negative experience totals, broken spells, forms not showing details, missing quests, missing formulas...and I can think of quite a few more...oh and did I forget to mention the 20 to 30 mobs that jump on me all at once due to a combination of lag and the "superb" (read[img]/Web/emoticons/emotion-7.gif[/img]arcasm) new spawn system we've received. I usually find myself dead due to huge golem spawn (platinum and cobalt) due to them being invisible as they all appear at once !!!

Oops almost forgot to mention that with evasion still broken that's another "risk" we fail to be "rewarded" for.


You don't build community by encouraging leeching. It works quite the opposite.
As for the completely broken game, this is your opinion that developers spend their time nerfing it. Try logging on IRC some time and bring your points,observations, constructive criticism and suggestionsinstead of listing the still much work to do.
Work that is done by different groups that are not impacted by such a chage, which involves an huge addition of 2 lines of code in 5 minutes.

Yesterday Amon and us talked for a very long time on the future of some mobs and how we'd like they behaved. Next time jump in - all it costs is downloading a free software - and contribute instead of crying in an angle like the world's falling.

Btw evasion works perfectly, it's just some mobs who are overpumped with it.
The stun system has more troubles instead but once again, no active feedback (tickets, chat), no fix.

The developers are all for fixing the broken stuff if someone bothers telling them. No magic wand tells them what's not working but reports and IRC chat (forums don't give them enough precise information to work on errors).

When you'll see the next Bligtht patchnotes with an huge list of minor / annoying problems listed as resolved, expecially for dragons and monks, it's my contribution - given skipping hours of sleep (and I do have job and family stuff [img]/Web//emoticons/emotion-5.gif[/img]) - and Korial's.

We, the rude ones who bother tangibly to help.



Notice:

_____________

I take exception to these comments. Thissite is the officialforum for AE/Tulga Horizons, and the devs should read and respond to the issues listed here. No one should be required to log into an unofficial IRC chat area in order to get the ear of the developers, and in fact, that is part of the problem rather than the cure. Not every paying customer of Horizons has the ability, for various logistical reasons, to log into and monitor 24/7 on IRC chat, nor should they be expected, required, or asked to do so. Nor should they be taken to task because they are unable to log into IRC. Not only that, but it is my understanding that those who log into the IRC channel must be pre-approved to chat as well, so it hardly appears an open forum.

There are subforums here for feedback from Blight, as well as subforums for bug reports. These areas are the "official" areas for reporting to the devs, not an unofficial IRC chat forum.

There is a vocal minority who has the ear of the devs on IRC. Perhaps the devs should occasionally listen to the feedback here, whether it appears to be "detailed" enough or not. The ability to PM for further information certainly exists here, and I'm quite certain those who have posted their feedback, opinions, and ideas here deserve at least as much response as those who chat with the devs on IRC.

___________________
Gwynnifer ApHelion
Don't get a Healer mad ....

[Draca Moraven]

Does this change bring in more customers? Dont think so...
Does it help to keep existing players from not quitting this game earlier? Dont think so...

Are there other things that could have been done at the same time? Hell yes...

I am back [:P]

And let me add: Please remove multi enemy bonus completely [;)]

[gopher65]

well Gwynnifer, I don't use IRC either:). I'm just not online enough at the right times. But I reported serveral bugs in the Bugs forums, and on the Support website, and devs have replied, and even fixed issues that I reported. Esspecially when it is some minor issue like a typo:).

So if you don't use IRC then just post on the bug forums. It works really well. Amon and Zideon reply to posts there all the time.

[AmonGwareth]

Just to clarify, we spend a lot of time reading threads here on the boards and fixing bugs from those reports. You can find many posts by us in some threads and sections.

IRC is a useful tool, yes, but it is neither required of the player-base nor our only sole means of communication. In a way, the same could be said of the forums. Only a percentage of players in a gameutilize the forums so they are limited as well. But they are also useful and good for information.

Key points:

1. Support.istaria.com is the preferred method for reporting bugs, suggestions, feedback to us

2. The Forums, specifically the game bugs section, is a good place to post bugs and get feedback from other players as sometimes things aren't truly broken but might not be working the way someone expects.

3. PMs and IRC are extra and you can use them, but they are not required. Most times in IRC the conversation is not about the game and most definitely not serious.

Hope that helps. We appreciate EVERYONE's feedback and reports and encourage you all to submit them when you find something or have an idea.

- Amon

[Frons Von Frik]

Thanks Amon,

I noticed that as well and have been using the bug section too.. its good to hear from you guys in any means...

[Rocinante]

Maybe I am crazy here, but I don't thinkthis change will decrease leaching. In fact it will increase leaching. Here's why: the goal of the leach is to reach a level, say 100. Under the old xp table the leach would have to be leaching for X hours to obtain level 100. Under the new xp tables the leach gains xp slower, therefore it will require X hours PLUSY hours making up the lost xp due to the level cap. Therefore, leaching will increase.

This is not a fix of the system, this is an attempt by AE to make the segment of the player base who is upset about power leveling and leachingfeel better abouthow others are playingnothing more, nothing less.

Rocinante
Fury of Feladan

[Hal`cyon Sskyler]

I disagree with Rocinante here, the goal of leachers is to take the path of least resistance to reach their goal. Before this change the best was for them to do this was get in a nice group of high levels, have them drag thirty baddies 50 times their rating, and have 'em nuke the whole batch, the biggest gains coming from the multiplier on kills. Reduce the multiplier, and just maybe players will start playing the game in a more fair, ligitmate way.... and NOT bet a level 100 mage that joins your group, and fights with training fire bolt (true story)

[Korial]

Maybe I am crazy here, but I don't thinkthis change will decrease leaching. In fact it will increase leaching. Here's why: the goal of the leach is to reach a level, say 100. Under the old xp table the leach would have to be leaching for X hours to obtain level 100. Under the new xp tables the leach gains xp slower, therefore it will require X hours PLUSY hours making up the lost xp due to the level cap. Therefore, leaching will increase.

This is not a fix of the system, this is an attempt by AE to make the segment of the player base who is upset about power leveling and leachingfeel better abouthow others are playingnothing more, nothing less.

Rocinante
Fury of Feladan

Anything that might stop yet-another-****************-clueless-L100 is a good thing. You know who I mean, like the L90+ clerics who don't even know what "Health, Minor Health, Major Health and Group Health are", or the T5 nature users who reply with "what are stuns?".

[LaughingOtter]

Under the new xp tables the leach gains xp slower, therefore it will require X hours PLUSY hours making up the lost xp due to the level cap. Therefore, leaching will increase.

I think it far more likely that they will quit, now that they can't get massive levels without any effort on thier part any more. Gasp, horrors, the temerity of requiring that people work for the levels they gain!

[The Wanderer]

Try logging on IRC some time and bring your points,observations, constructive criticism and suggestionsinstead of listing the still much work to do.
.......

Yesterday Amon and us talked for a very long time on the future of some mobs and how we'd like they behaved. Next time jump in - all it costs is downloading a free software - and contribute instead of crying in an angle like the world's falling.

....

The developers are all for fixing the broken stuff if someone bothers telling them. No magic wand tells them what's not working but reports and IRC chat (forums don't give them enough precise information to work on errors).

You are ignoring the fact that many are not able to be in IRC when the devs are and are unable to "contribute" in the manner that you describe.

Also, why could there not be as much detail presented in the forums as in IRC or throught reports? The information has to be typed in any case. One may take longer than the other but that is a whole other discussion.

Too much is being done by way of IRC to the exclusion of many others who are trying to contribute, not all are "crying" as you want to characterize it.

[gopher65]

Wanderer I think you need to scroll up a bit and read Amon's reply to Vahrokh's message:P

[Ferah]

Isn?t the segment of the population that is detrimentally clueless (honestly at any level) rather small? I.e. Is this really a mountain or is it a mole hill?

Seems like a lot of fuss so alright, 2*normal seems pretty reasonable. Perhaps 3-4* though, If I survive a big pull I?d like a big reward after all.

I do speak as one that is actively contributing though? I don?t want to be ?robbed? of reward for my effort with this change. I certainly would not mind ?leeches? not having such an easy time, but as I see it this change effect the majority and we are not leeches.

Personally, I?d like to see zero effort result in zero bonus experience. But how do you define effort?

Of course why not let people have fun and level fast, it is a game after all.

Just a few coppers?

[The Wanderer]

gopher65, I did before I posted. Unforutnately, the fact that the devs use IRC as the primary source of feedback is part of the problem.