Feedback on Changes to Multiple Enemy Experiance

[Foxfire]

Of course why not let people have fun and level fast, it is a game after all.

Just a few coppers?

Why don't we just start folks at level 100?

I think the majority of folks views levels and the corresponding abilities as something that represents tangible, sustainedand skilledeffort, and the pride that comes with that. The process to get there should also be fun, of course. But you rob the majority of well deserved pride and praise when you hand over the same reward to a do-nothing ninnie.

I like this tweak since it's easy to code and should be relatively effective. I can think of an alternate solution that would work better:

How about Mob AI that is "aware" of how many mobs are involved in a fight, and splits off a squad of 1 or 2 or however many depending on the size of the mobgroup to go squash other party group members, giving high priority as a "quick kill" to anything more than 20 rating points below it. And then healers, and then casters. That'll put some fear into the fights, and cause an instant requirement for group tactics beyond tank-pull and maintain aggro.

Yeah, I like that a LOT better.

[Senkeleron Fell]

Or something along the lines of-

If a large number of opponents is attacking a group, the more there are the more
likely that each one will aggro on someone other than the main tank. It would be
a sensible tactic for mobs to have, not sure if anything like that is easily coded though.

So for instance you have a group of 5 characters attacked by 10. It would
be sensible for 6 to attack the normal tank and one each on the other characters
in the group.

[gopher65]

I don't know how many times I have heard darn near every dev or WM or CS or even DB say it. IRC IS NOT THE MAIN METHOD OF COMMUNICATION. It is simply A METHOD. You don't have to use it, and you won't miss out if you don't. Virtually everything that is said there is non-game related! Sheesh. Some people need to read more.

EDIT: wow if they can't read I can't write. There were many many typos;)

[Kulamata]

I disagree strongly with those who would welcome the departure of the clueless 100's.

They are PAYING customers. As nearly as I can tell from the original statements made at the time of the bankruptcy filing, the player base at that time allowed AE to break even after the changes.

As we all know, the player base has fallen since that time, and I am very concerned about the financial viability of the game.

Anything that will cause people to leave is a very bad idea. Since no one is directly harmed by the current system, (although they are offended) I think more people would leave because of the proposed change than if it is allowed to stand.

If there is an error, and the wrong player's rating is used to calculate xp, then that should of course be corrected. But I am strongly opposed to any other changes.

As we have seen with the recent patch, there will be problems, regardless. Deliberately adding to the discontent that the inadvertent problems cause is a very poor idea.

[Senkeleron Fell]

Unless they stay, they aren't Paying customers. I would doubt that most of the
powerleachers that go from 1 to 100 in a couple weeks stay very long after that.
Make the game too easy, it is over. If it is over, you leave and take your money
elsewhere.

[Vlisson]

i really love this change!!!

its late and the damage to the community happened but i hope that the lvl cap 120 will be safe from all leechers.

i hope that all will get normal, ok only with marrows you leveled real slow but you earned your exp!

i dont think that anyone will quit because of this change, only powerlevler who hate to invest days to reach lvl X (but they would leave soon regardless of this change beeing bored by everything)

AE let us earn our levels!

[Kault]

I too take exception to the idea that the vocal few that live, eat, sleep and breathe HZ are the only ones that are/should be heard. As a casual player, I do not have the time to spend hours chatting up the Devs. in IRC or pleading for "my" pet change. In addition, I resent the insinuation that the casual players dont deserve to be heard. I submit that the casual players make up the majority of HZ subscribers. Without the casual player, HZ's survival is doubtful.

I play HZ for fun. Changes that make it less fun are bad. Changes that make it more fun are good.

I fail to see how the change we are talking about here makes the game more fun unless you are one of those advocating "pulling up the ladder" and consider your "elite uberness" to be a major component of your fun.

The only supporters for this change that I see are those who have already acheived 100 in one or more adventure schools.

[gopher65]

Kault, unless you are in the habit of fighting 10+ equal level mobs at once, you will not see any change. This only affects people who cheat. And just so you know, other games take a far more harsh stance on this problem than HZ. Like they limit you to grouping with people within, say, 20 levels (ratings in HZ)of you.

And for the last freaken time, nothing important ever happens in IRC.

[kengar]

Very nice, although I'd still give flat 0 exp to leechers outside 20 levels off the hightest character in group.

So leechers with a high level are O.K.? The problem is, there's a lot more that goes into defining leaching than just level. I forget which congresscritter said it, but to paraphrase, "I know leaching when I see it." Or do you consider just the difference in level enough proof that someone is leaching?

Also, level or rating? I ask because either answer has its own set of problems. Level doesn't accurately reflect how much a character can contribute. As a lvl 20 chaos warrior (with lvl 100 paladin under his belt), my biped has little to no problems taking out lvl 70-80 mobs as long as there are no adds. If rating is used instead (more logical, but with other problems) then you run into the problem that my dragon would have. Until the softcap is raised, he can't have a rating higher than 100. Which means that he wouldn't get XP grouping with many of my friends with ratings in the 120's.

While I have absolutely no problems with the original change, your suggestion is going too far, in my opinion. Even without multiclassing, groups with levels spanning more than 20 can still be quite effective with each person pulling their own weight. Add multiclassing to the list, and the situation gets far worse.

Even though I don't think it would be possible to do completely fairly, the idea discussed in another thread of computing how much each character actually contributed to a fight would be better than your suggestion, though with its own set of downsides.

And as for getting too much aggro, the current spawn system causes problems entirely outside the control of the character. I don't think that it will cause problems with this, as we're still getting XP for the extra mobs, just not as much of a bonus for them, however. On the other hand, I think writing off any concerns because it's the player's fault isn't a realistic view of the current state of the game.

While I don't disagree with the concept of making leeching difficult or impossible, I'd like to see a solution that doesn't impose draconian limitations on people that aren't leeching.

[Gwynnifer ApHelion]

And for the last freaken time, nothing important ever happens in IRC.[/quote]
_____________

This comment would appear to be incorrect, based on Vahrokh's and Amon's posts within this thread.

_______________
Gwynnifer ApHelion

[Gwynnifer ApHelion]

Ack ... pardon the messed up post there. I was trying to respond to Gopher65's quote that "for the last freaken time, nothing important ever happens in IRC."

This comment would appear to be incorrect, based on Vahrokh's and Amon's posts within this thread.

__________
Gwynnifer ApHelion

[Rocinante]

I disagree with Rocinante here, the goal of leachers is to take the path of least resistance to reach their goal.

The path of least resistance is still being in a group and leaching from it. Only now it will requireleaches toleach longer.

Furthermore, Iforsee places such as Elnath becoming even more popular withthe leachcrowd (if that is possible). This will bedue theXP cap of2x the mob.The higher the mobs basexp the higher the bonus will be. Which was true before, however now there will be a premium placed on those precious 120lvlmobs asthe leach will be looking for get the highest 2X possible.

Again what has been done will only add to the existing problem of leach.

And now for a very special message to all you leachers out there: Please don't quit. There are 4 Stayr islands for you to leach off. While it may take an extra day for you to hit L100 in your seventh class, in the meantime I will still be playing and have fun elsewhere in Istaria.

Rocinante
Fury of Feladan

[The Wanderer]

I don't know how many times I have heard darn near every dev or WM or CS or even DB say it. IRC IS NOT THE MAIN METHOD OF COMMUNICATION. It is simply A METHOD. You don't have to use it, and you won't miss out if you don't. Virtually everything that is said there is non-game related! Sheesh. Some people need to read more.

EDIT: wow if they can't read I can't write. There were many many typos[img]/Web/emoticons/emotion-5.gif[/img]

gopher65, you may want to scroll backup and reread my post.

IRC has become the primary source of feedback for every dev. This is not an idle remark, it comes from over a years worth of observasion. I have read/followed IRC logs, thread, chats, reports as well as interviewed people involved in various issues.
IRC is what the devs give the bulk of their attention to and weigh the heaviest of all the channels of communication. This is not a matter of perception but the defacto stand for the devs.

As we all know, not everything of import makes it from IRC into the threads, also what is unimportant to you may be very important to someone else.

A good example is to see how much the devs discussed multiple enemy experience in IRC compared to the amount they discussed it in the threads before making any changes. And they did discuss various ideas in IRC. I know of nowhere in the threads, where a dev discussed this before this thread.

As for a main method of communication, you may want to read Amon's post. I have never read anything from a dev stating a main method, this thread included. Other than how to bill your credit card, no method of communication is required. IRC, threads, or support site, they are all optional.

Even if "virtually everything" in IRC were non-game related, that means that some things are game related. If these items were in the threads then more people would have a chance to read and respond to them, in IRC if you are not in at that moment then you may never see it as itis just as likely thatit may never make it to the threads ( as many statements by the devs have never made it from IRC to the threads).

[Kault]

Gopher,

I am well aware of the rules for the other MMORPG's as I have played virtually all of them. Started in the UO beta more than 7 years ago and tried pretty much everything that has come on the market since then including many of the betas.

I do not play HZ because it has rules similar to all the others that I have tried. I left all the others because I didnt like them. If HZ becomes too much like them I will leave HZ also. I am here because HZ is different, not the same.

I still havent seen anyone come up with a valid arguement as to how this change makes the game more FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Fireclaw]

Gopher,
I still havent seen anyone come up with a valid arguement as to how this change makes the game more FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1. Having experience too easy to obtain so that people get up to level 80+ in just a few days of play cheapens the experience for those players who actually worked for those levels without exploiting. Cheapened experience = less fun.
2. current system results in fewer players at middle levels - everyone is either at top levels or beginning.
3. current system Makes balance difficult - because many players get to obscenely high ratings that the mobs are not designed to handle.
4. current system limits hunting - instead of players hunting different progressively stronger mobs as they level up, players instead hunt at just one location for their entire careers.

[Safire]

Good to see some form of restriction although I will say I'll miss seeing big numbers on the rare occasions I did.

I'm still inclined to remove multiple mob and group bonus for group members who are rated 20 below the creature though

20? thats nothing really lets say for example someone has an ubber char and can take mobs over 20 rateing levels above them...reaver/healers....quite possible

as for the tweaking ibelive theidea works fine 2x lets see from what i hear level 100 mobs solo give out about 20k exp ea so it is still possible to get like 40k exp offa them with bonus...not terribly bad no? although i for one prefer soloing tough enough mobs that it doesnt help me with bonus(or in other words the toughest mobs i can get away with) for exp reasons and to keep from being able to hunt in my sleep...almost literally

[PJ]

[img]/Web/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]gopher65 wrote:

I don't know how many times I have heard darn near every dev or WM or CS or even DB say it. IRC IS NOT THE MAIN METHOD OF COMMUNICATION. It is simply A METHOD. You don't have to use it, and you won't miss out if you don't. Virtually everything that is said there is non-game related! Sheesh. Some people need to read more.

EDIT: wow if they can't read I can't write. There were many many typos[img]/Web/emoticons/emotion-5.gif[/img]


gopher65, you may want to scroll backup and reread my post.

IRC has become the primary source of feedback for every dev. This is not an idle remark, it comes from over a years worth of observasion. I have read/followed IRC logs, thread, chats, reports as well as interviewed people involved in various issues.
IRC is what the devs give the bulk of their attention to and weigh the heaviest of all the channels of communication. This is not a matter of perception but the defacto stand for the devs.

As we all know, not everything of import makes it from IRC into the threads, also what is unimportant to you may be very important to someone else.

A good example is to see how much the devs discussed multiple enemy experience in IRC compared to the amount they discussed it in the threads before making any changes. And they did discuss various ideas in IRC. I know of nowhere in the threads, where a dev discussed this before this thread.

As for a main method of communication, you may want to read Amon's post. I have never read anything from a dev stating a main method, this thread included. Other than how to bill your credit card, no method of communication is required. IRC, threads, or support site, they are all optional.

Even if "virtually everything" in IRC were non-game related, that means that some things are game related. If these items were in the threads then more people would have a chance to read and respond to them, in IRC if you are not in at that moment then you may never see it as itis just as likely thatit may never make it to the threads ( as many statements by the devs have never made it from IRC to the threads).

This really wasn't the case. I can't recall a time when the dev's discussed this probelm with us in IRC, much less even acknowledged it. Most of the dev/player interaction is help/support/bugs/news or just shooting the breeze. When something like multiclassing or dragons or the exp situation or the player economy, etc. comes up its mostly just players arguing/debating/discussing. At best they read it, but then hopefully they read it on the boards to.

[DeathTiny]

too late but welcome change :)

[Korial]

If you have a problem with IRC, don't start kicking up a fuss that nothing happens on the boards, and it's all IRC.

Multiple enemy bonus was discussed, heavily in this thread: http://community.istaria.com/Web/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=36029

[Flin]

I have been tryiing to figure out how this change would effect me. I recently changed to warrior school and ended up with a Level 1 Warrior and a 75 or thereabouts Rating.. Since very few spells transfer over to the warrior, (two heals come to mind) , I need you to tell me, how am I supposed to go kill a level 75 mob with little help other than 1H crush? Sure , with Ironsilk I can at lest have enough armor to last for a few hits.

If it effects me as I think it would, it would place a sever elimit on my XP gains.

I do not like the nerf bat, as it always has unintended effect when it is used. This is a nerf by the way.

It amazes me that some here would say people are cheating when they are playing within the game mechanics.

Personally I feel that at least half the problem is with veteran players who just plain don't like to see others powerleveled because they feel it belittles the steps they had to take to get to that magic 100 mark.