Are you willing to start over?

[Ixalmaris]

I ask this because in my opinion there are some fundamental machanics wrong in this game like the totally free multiclassing allowing players to be max in everything and the resulting lack of flavor for most classes, things which simply reduce the fun players can have (all imo of course).
Those things can't be changed because they are an integral part of the game and even if they can be changed all players will be affacted, many will cry nerf and leave and HZ will end.

But what about if AE finds time to rebalance the game and starts a new server with changed rules based on our input. Would you be willing to make a new character on the new server, abandoning you probably maxed character or would you continue to play your old character despite not having much to do?

It comes down to: In your opinion, should AE try to rebuild the game mechanics to fix fundemental flaws or introduce new high level content to keep players occupied but never (or nearly never) adressing the big problems of the game?

[imported_Ssilmath]

No, I would not start over...I have put far too much time and effort into Ssilmath to do so

You say that multiclassing reduces the fun, and that is a load of poo...It is what makes the game worth playing...I think it is a great thing that you can have a make all, fight all character if you want, and the ability to make my own armor, weapons, jewelry, spells, plot, everying is what makes HZ truly enjoyable...

No, I will not start over unless I have no other choice

[Pharcellus]

Sure I would, but it would have to be a drastically better/different game for me to pay for it.

I think that the multiclassing basically turns the game from a MMORPG to a single-player game with an online chatroom.

I grant you that there is nothing else to do besides multiclass (for bipeds; for Dragons, we get dicked until our next stage of growth comes out, where we realize that we are dicked even more). However, twanging the multiclass strings does little to nothing in the overall satisfaction department. The reward is shallow and empty. Take Frons, for example. He should be on cloud 9 with a 15x100 character, yet now he struggles to find a purpose.

..and therein lies the problem. Multiclassing doesn't give you a purpose, it gives you something to do to fill in the time until there is a purpose worth having again.

[Ixalmaris]

I am asking this because as I see it, HZ as it is now has no future. The problems in the game are partially in the basic game mechanic which can't be changed without changing the whole game.

Sure AE might introduce high level content with the 120 lvl cap, but this will only fill the void for so long and has to be balanced for rating 100 dragons and single classed bipeds and for rating 160 multiclass monsters. Thats a problem with the multiclass system. The level (or rather rating) range is just to high to form groups except with a few players without someone beeing useless. Crafting is also a problem as it allows mass production/selling for making loads of money with enough grind.

I am not saying that the multiclass system should be removed, but the rating should be capped at 100 with the ability to delete levels through a quest (RoP like, only a bit shorter/easier). That will still give players enough room to customnize but they can't do all themself. And maybe increase the ressources required for end products so that people can't produce 2000 spells a day but maybe 20 or even only 20. Maybe even add a cost for crafting.
And of course, there is still the lack of content to be fixed.

I know that all this is wish thinking, but at least it is nice to dream about it.

[Kulamata]

No, much too much of a grind these days at lower levels, especially crafting.

I would greatly prefer seeing that development effort go into this game, to reduce the need for players multi-classing just to find something to do.

But multi-classing itself is something I am much in favor of. It's fun trying to pick complementary classes. and even more fun learning the "flavor" of each class. There are several class "styles"; Mage is very different from warrior, and healer is pretty well unique. And since the really powerful spells, and of course the abilities, are limited in what transfers, the "uberness" is somewhat less than many imagine. The last time I was on Elnath, (some weeks ago), my rating 12x was just as dead as the 169 rated player next to me on the ground. Many multi-class combos cannot solo Mhedon, let alone some of the WA groups. Multi is, on the whole, a way of increasing the game's complexity without undue dev resources, and as such, not a bad thing at all.

[Phillip]

first of all, multiclassing is why alot of us play. it is also why we are till here. it's the other stuff missing that we crave, the general fun stuff in an MMO.

second, and it is important: a 10 school multiclassed biped isn't necessarily better than a 6, or 4, or 3 schools. i have seen 8 schoolers getting beaten to hell by anchor mobs. i have seen 3 schoolers cutting through them like butter. i personally think 4-6 is good enough, after that there aren't much difference. of course, it depends onwhat you took.

Frons is good partially because he's got 15 schools (out of boredom), but most of that powers comes from the attitude within. he's more powerful now yes, but his tenacity is the same since he's a wee 1 school paladin pimp. i remember those days.

am i willing to start over? no.

[Jael]

No way wouldI start over. I have put way to much time and effort into both of my toons to EVER want to throw that all away and start again.

[Tryagain]

Sure I would, but it would have to be a drastically better/different game for me to pay for it.

I think that the multiclassing basically turns the game from a MMORPG to a single-player game with an online chatroom.

..and therein lies the problem. Multiclassing doesn't give you a purpose, it gives you something to do to fill in the time until there is a purpose worth having again.

this is what Horizons currently is. A graphical chat room. Read the goodbye posts and see a common thread that people mention ? ' an empty lifeless world '. Due to being so slow in getting changes rolled out Tulga Games / AE they have taken the MM out of MMORPG. This is a very serious issue that they are going to have to address.

As well endless multiclassing is not the god send that most people think it is. In crafting for instance my main character had 5 crafting classes and 3 construction classes all at level 60 and above. I was only JUST running into a forms limit. But jeez what did I need anyone for ? I was a one man crafting army. So were many many people and its still the same now. It removed the economy from the game.

Multiclassing ? yes this is a feature of Horizons a good feature. But its also a feature which has played a large part in its current woes. Why ? because of no content, what else are people going to do in this game ? They reach a certain level and get bored with a class. Or they find no one to group with and decide to be a " one person adventuring army totally self sufficient " . Why group when you can heal, nuke , do melee damage and crowd control all by yourself ? Your rating is so high that the best the game has to offer doesn't even give you cause to blink. There should have been a limit on multiclassing and the ability to drop a school or regain TP's in at release. Likewise there should have been the content in game to keep people from even thinking about having more than 3 adventuring schools or even 2. So what multiclassing has done has allowed AE / Tulga Games to believe they could let the content phase of the game lax believing people will just.... start another adventure school. They let class balancing and improvements fall to the way side because they believed.. why bother balancing and improving classes if all they have to do is start another school to make up for percieved weaknesses of their main class ? Then you have the following casualties. Pure class bipeds can't compete for trophies so they drop that novel idea and multiclass. As well then Dragons are impossible to balance with the multiclass titans that walk istaria.

So yes indeed Multiclassing was a strength of Horizons. But because AE has done next to no work on content addition it has become one of the games major weaknesses. It allows people to become bored fast and makes deciding to cancel their account that much easier.

It has been mentioned a few times that they should shut the game down. Take a year and redo the game and replace the engine and re release. Offer old players some kind of incentive and start over. As it is now the game is hopelessly out of balance. Should they ever add the content new players coming in will be hard pressed to match a multiclassed titan and even compete with them, get frustrated and leave. Thus the never ending cycle of Horizons losing more people than it gains continues. What a vicious cycle it is to.

[Gwynnifer ApHelion]

No, I would not start over. Multiclassing, to me, is the heart and soul of this game, and one of the only things that sets it apart from the multitude of MMORPGs out there. In my opinion, lack of content is killing this game, not the ability to multiclass. DAoC (as an example) has successfully introduced content beyond the upper level of50 in that game, through expansions such as Trials of Atlantis. Those expansions allow for additional abilities and items that enhance the character, without having to raise the level of the character. Horizons could do this also, by working on alternative methods of advancement for all races. (I'm not advocating that Hz come up with expansions that cost the player base at this point -- just that they put needed content into the game as it currently exists.)

The player base is bored. There has been no defining content, and no events have been staged for a lengthy period of time. I see that as the problem, rather than multiclassing ... and I would be very hesitant to restart in a game that might be pieced together using input from potentially selective sources.

I guess what I'm saying basically is that if I have to restart, I'm as apt to restart in another game entirely (other than the "new" Horizons.)

[Merriweather Honeythorn]

Exactly as Gwynnifer says, might as well just start a new game than restart one you already worked to accomplish things in and you know has deep seated problems in lack of content. Not to mention I like being able to multiclass. I don't do it with my Adventure schools but I do with my Crafting and it would be a HUGE bummer not to be able to do that. And who knows, maybe one day I might want to try a new Adventure school or two, I'd like that option to be open to me.

Anyhow, I wouldn't start over because of two most important things...... My shoulder Party Cow and my boxer short collection. If I lost those I'd never darken the doorstep of HZ again![8o|]

[Ixalmaris]

Then HZ faces the same problems as Everquest does (only worse).

All the high level people don't want to start over because it is to much of a grind and no new players join while old players slowly quit because it gets boring.
With that I sadly don't see much of a future for HZ.

[IndyMan]

I agree that multiclassing has hit a snag. Perhaps IF they redo it all they could make it so that you could be 100 -70 -40 -10 at best. The same for crafting.

[Aquarius]

I ask this because in my opinion there are some fundamental machanics wrong in this game like the totally free multiclassing allowing players to be max in everything and the resulting lack of flavor for most classes, things which simply reduce the fun players can have (all imo of course)........

If this is the argument that players eventually become god like or something, then this argument is getting old. Cause a) this is very much not so.. 5 lvl 100 and other classes i still go splat. b) if someone does invest enough time to be 10 lvl 100 classes then thats that persons decision.. why complain about this, cause you have little time to play ? not a valid argument.

The open multiclassing system is what defines this game from other games of the mmorpg genre, please leave this as is.

[Merriweather Honeythorn]

So by the way you make it sound, if it doesn't happen the way you say it should HZ should just close up shop now? That's a bit narrowminded...

There are LOADS of things TulgAE can do to improve the game without removing fundamental mechanics that make Horizons Horizons. Just check the Suggestions forum.

I'll admit to disliking Sony/EQ with a passion but was there something I missed? Last I checked EQ was still flourishing, has continued to have new expansions, and continues to attract new players.

Games are going to lose players and the majority of those players are going to be long standing players. It's inevitable. After you've played something for 5+ years I would think it would be time for something new and you would be getting bored no matter the game. Games aren't made to last forever, not even MMORPGs. So long as there is a constant influx of new players the game will continue to thrive off those new players but for some, mainly the old players, it's time to move on.

HZs main problems in my eyes is lacking some serious content and having unresolved lag issues.. If TulgAE could manage to get these two major things addressed we'd have a larger influx of new and return players, manage to keep most of the ones it has now, and its long term survivability would look far more promising.

Want an example of what a wipe and start over would do to HZ, EQs Test server had it's one and only wipe a few years back.. They lost a good deal of their Test players and to this day that wipe is a bitter taste in the mouths of those players who stayed. And that was on a single server and a server that knew from day one that a wipe was always possible. I don't see HZ surviving that if they did a full scale wipe. I doubt ANY game could survive that, even EQ.

[Rainbow]

Sorry, but I doubt very much that I would be prepared to start over again.

Rainbow

[evilkarl]

I've lightly dabbled in multiclassing. Its great and a key aspect of the game one of the few things that keeps people still playing at this stage be in adventure or craft multiclassing.

Would I start again? My inital thought was no. However if everything I dislike in the game was fixed it would not be the same game as I started back in decemeber 03 so I might be inclined to start again to get the full experience.

Unlimited multiclassing can and has cause problems but multiclassing needs a few more restrictions on it imo but more importantly than that those that stay pure or have no choice need to have alternate options available.

If everything was fixed, everything was working. My class was not gimped, alternate advancement for staying pure was present, world model was implemented dungeons present real dynamic WA attacks, race/class/misc quests then I might be inclined to start again as it would be a whole new game.

[Seranthor]

Revamping and making everyone start over would be a game breaker for me. I have worked too hard and too long on my character and I haven't hit 90 in anything. The problem is NOT in multiclassing, its in the way that Dragons dont have that option. IF anything you should be cheerleading to let dragons multiclass as was originally intended, NOT trying to nerf bipeds into quitting and killing off HZ as we know it.

[Susan]

Why do you think that people leave because they are bored by multiclassing?

Multiclassing is what makes Horizons for me.
The lack of events, quests etc. make the game boring. But it is also boring for single classes, not only for the multiclassed.

I would never, ever restart again. Like the other already said - too much time spent on my toon. And I liked every second! [:P]

[Frons Von Frik]

The issue is far beyond multiclassing... The main problem is the constant bugs and gamestopping issues.. These same issues keep popping up and it seems they never go away.. AE/Tulga spends so much time on tryin to fix the mess they created that they have no time to start anything new...

The problem is content.. there is no new content.. hasnt been new content in over 6 months...There needs to be an endgame in this game.. There needs to be things that are fun to do besides the endless grind..

We need events! we need WM driven events and we need something fresh... something that will keep us going...

Waiting 6 months for the AROP and putting everything on the side is not going to make anyone happy.. Bipeds complaining because they have to wait for their new content.. Dragons complaining because the AROP is taking way too long...

The fact is that Tulga does not have the man power.. unless they higher some serious programmers this game is not going to make it... their team right now is good; I cant deny them that.. but it is just not enough...

The continual delays on contentand buggy product is what is killing this game in my opinion..

...and personally I dont think I would start all over again unless I know they created a full proof dynamite winner.. otherwise I would just try something different....

[Peaches]

No, I would not want to start over.