My little unholy, ironic, devil's advocate take on multiclassing and other stuff and suggestions

[Vahrokh]

This is somewhat a response to an insightful post by Anikitos at
http://community.istaria.com/Web/AddPost.aspx?PostID=47774

about the nowadays tiring (and boring) "nerf everything calls" from basically one side.

[hr]

You have an insight that is amazing, your posts are very "rough" but have the juice, Anikitos.

While I am a dragon (well, since I started my reaver seriously I am not looking back - at level 14 warrior tanking level 30 oastics is just too fun) I cannot voice for nerfs gratuitously.

Besides I find highly incorrect and vile to call nerf on other people.

On the opposite, because I am playing a biped alt for real and not to make up a puppet to tag along and heal me, I don't find this rating thing pleasant at all.
It's not like I cannot cope with it - I am still getting about 10 more times fun than when I played the dragon - but the very concept of it is completely illogical.

Why I learn how to wear plate and unlearn it basing on a talk with a NPC? I don't even drop stats or anything. IT's just some "external" rule that decides that I cannot use what I earned already (and spent my time on it). And why I should start a new class from level 1, but I am "rated" 25? What's this rating for? Apparently to "slow me down" (tiring people with useless grind is one of the most lasting assets of Horizons - it pervades EVERY little aspect of the game). Will it slow me down for real? When if I just asked (I don't because I strictly play "correct" if possible) to a guildie I could powerlevel the crap off the penalty, rendering it null?
I'll even dare to say that rating is one of those dull things that suggest people to powerlevel - who wants to be a gimp level 1 rating 80? What would you do in that situation if there were not spirit bolt and lightning bolt? You'd be stalled already, game over - and months ago - like dragon. Did dragons get any good at being stalled? Nah! Why stalling a non dragon too?

Horizons like other small products can allow itself at exploring new original ways...
Some are a bright success, like personalized plots and the flexibility of the crafting system.
Others are sorry fiascos. Dragons, rating, tiering of everything so it's darn repetitive (a game that's over after 20 levels for a crafter - seen all) are all GLARING dead ends.

I played a dragon up to his maximum achievable "power" with the best of the best and it's just as dishearthening as when you pay loads for a supercar that after 10 minutes melts the engine. Dragons suck. Not because they suck in game or anything.
But because they fit bad in the game like sand fits bad in precision swatch gears, the game rules are not good for them - a single generalistic (and boring) build against a fully changing and evolving world is a loosersince the beginning.I won't even give a suggestion about fixing dragons. The ARoP won't cut it - it'll give possibly an unbalancing and _not earned_ huge buff in overall worth of a class that will still keep it's deadly shortcomings (not earned in this context means... what a dumb level 90 dragon DID to earn i.e. double his power? Nothing, not even 1 exp more. Nor the minimum requisites will grant any real effort of time like all bipeds must do or at least the non leeching ones do. And us oldtimers that feel like we "earned the power in virtue of having waited for a year"? Sorry, it'spure game mechanics, it's not like rotting for a year should give off free stats - we were just SOL).
[hr]
I play a biped and see that multiclassing as is, is bad. It's not about power, it's about sense.
So I take 4 classes. Am I a criminal that I sinned enough to deserve to beg friends to raise me at Elnath till I can at least do on my own because a number decided I must be "good" for level 80 mobs even if I am a lowly level 1 scout?
At level 1 scout I would as well forget ALL of my other abilities, including spirit bolt, healing etc but have a rating of 1.
Then at 10 scout I would be able to (unheard of!) enjoy the content of a level 10 scout seeing the world by his eyes, and not off the eyes of a rating 120 who must burn up to at least level 80 NOW, else he cannot do anything but get 0 exp. As of now a multiclassed, even a dual class that was not so careful to raise a bit of each class in turn, is doomed to HAVE to powerlevel and loose the low level content (wether there is much or not low level content is another separate issue).

At the moment I am living just that, I am level 20 reaver now, but either I kill level 35 mobs or I just don't level up. I LOVE to be level 20, why I have to self-******** and skip to bigger stuff when I cannot care the less to go to 35 mobsnow? Sure I can kill my level mobs but they give me nada and the fun is just not here.
I'd by far prefer I'd lose any > level 20 ability I got in my other classes until I reach with reaver their level and "regain" back my other classes abilities (the masterable ones only of course) and be able to get level 20 exp from level 20 mobs.
Or, if this seems to be too much powerful, instead of raising a boring rating, lower the value given by the abilities of the other classes by affinity. I.e. I am level 20 paladin and level 20 cleric and level 20 mage? I get a 20 rating and the "equivalent" of being a level 20 paladin, an overall power of alevel 16 cleric (because the two are very affine) but just 8 mage (numbers just given to give an idea). In this case I'd finally have fun with my level 20 vs level 20 mobs or even higher, while retaining the skills I earnt as cleric.
If I switched to mage, I'd be rating 20 again, with mage 20 and an equivalent in power of a cleric 12 (way less affine magic, but still caster) and paladin 6 (awfully different and not affine in anything, different magic, melee etc).
[hr]
Same goes for craft. So I levelled to a new tier. WOO! Again the same soup. Ingredients: long sessions of digging while in real life I read a book (I am basically paying a book to get relief at the ugly grind a game I am paying exactly to avoid the crap in real life I must do).

To learn how to make a brick (a construction block used to make houses, not a sandstone brick)... I do an essence shaper.
No, not one. Zillions! All equal, flawless essence shapers. Same shapers any newcomer or year old does! And this will raise my skill at doing bricks O_O.
Sure, I can level up doing bricks at 1/10 of the speed, but why do I have to hammer my balls with 40 billions CTD due to recalls and teleports when I can save my day with tools?
And then it comes the grand day. I finally start granite! But ... wtf! It's again essence shapers, just grey instead of brown >_<.
Recursive grinding.
Then I arrive at level 100 BLK. WOO! DING!
Ok let's raise spellcrafter. 6 days later I am SPL 100. Without a single spell done. Just criss-crossing.

I'd really drop all of this vicious scheme and introduce one of those nice skill systems based on what you really craft.
I do my first 100 shapers (all numbers are fictious). They still are flawless (making low level stuff worse would just lead to all demanding only high level crafters cutting off the poor newbies who produce crap stuff), but I take a ton of resources. Then more 1000 and I use far less resources. Good. Then more 2000 and... DING I finally get the skill (I still have to get the formula off a trainer or by drop) to make a granite essence shaper. WOO!

Now I switch making an essence syphoon. It's more or less on the same "field" of application so I take less and after just 1000 of them, I can make the granite one.
Same for the essence structurer, but it's intrinsically harder (like it's now already), so I take much more time, even if I still have some bonus of "proximity" with the other essence tools.
Now I decide I am in a fancy day and build a shield. OWW I suck! It's completely unrelated, so I must redo the grind for it from scratch. No nice but odd shortcut to insta make a level 70 bow "because" I levelled to 100 BLK and so I got magically imbued the fletching skill without ever see a tree and much less a board plane.

This would add an enormous diversity in game, with no 2 consecutive crafters having the same skills like a photocopy, because just by doing some different things would lead to different paths.
[hr]
And what about spells and skills?
Why are we robots? We all learn revitalize. It takes 30 seconds to cycle. At level 1 and at rating 200 it's still 30 seconds, unless we tech it etc etc.
Isn't such a world boring?
Since the mana thing seems to dent little in Hz playerbase (and other games do it, so let's be funky here) why not just introduce a bit of thrill? Every time I click an ability or spell, it won't recycle in X seconds. It will recycle in X +/- 25%. A nice variation that will keep people on their toes when ie a revit says 40 seconds while fighting anchor undead or will let them smile in relief when under heavy fire it says "ready in 20 seconds".

[Phillip]

i like you Vah, so this ain't about bashing you. the rest is fair game.

maybe they should rid of the ******** spiders so no more green eyes at every turn.

fight the real mobs.

oh so uberly powerful yet no one wated to take my built plot worth 12g on killing 40 anchor mobs...yes you can beat up a handicaped deadhorse but hey, if it's Oprah on steroids with a black belt why, let's not go there. we might eat grass and that's not what uber is. *smacks the handicapeddeadhorse again and again* me uber, me good. me better than dragons! wooo.

WHO WANTS TO TOUCH MEEEEEEE!?!?!

i do! *touches self*

[:|]

the solution is to give dragons the same chance biped got in multiclassing. do that and call it the day. no more dragonscan't do this, can't take on that, can'tcatch a cold,get drunk at pub, can't blah blah blah...

it's a simple solution to a long overdue problemo.

i hardly ever group with a dragon becuz EVERYTIME i will hear "i can't do that" or "you're overpowered". hey, I KNOW. of course i can kick a handicapped deadhorse's ******. now stfu. yes i feel sorry for you, yes i wish things were better for you, yes i wish you could kick ahandicapped deadhorse's asstoo but what thehell...too bad a handicappeddeadwormis a challenge.but geezuz man...blah! hey look i have to go and do like, other things *leaves group*

and then the multiclassing detrimentals...like lobbying in congress, slowly building and building...but hey, it's not suggestive on nerfing biped or anything, we're just saying, you know, saying and stuff...

it means jack, dude.

wtf else are we biped gona do? oh i know, do quests of epic proportions! woot!

fight the dynamic WA!

loot that log!

oh look, a blighted green SSlik weapon that make lizards puke.

go hunt anchors til you turn blue.

get those forms and sell for 5s each.

build more silos! i think i can fit 2 more by the entrance, 12 on the roof, 4 by them machines, now i'll have 55 silos to store Uber Kenaf woo!

don't forget the PB so we can run portal run portal run...

check the boards to see who else is leaving.

[Shaw Moking]

hmmm, does 40 x lvl 60 Blighty Blight things count?

[Levity]

I will weigh in on this because I believe the devs do read these forums and do get a sense of the general populace's feelings from them.

I like the multiclassing aspect of this game, the chance to switch and be something else without losing everything you've built up. I would be very unhappy to have it taken away. I say that even though I have not yet taken advantage of it. I can't heal or rez or do anything else "everyone" does.

But I know I *can* do it. I am *planning* to do it for RP reasons once I hit 100 Reaver. And I am taking my leveling slowly so my RP story makes sense.I have played HZ since launch day. I have not rushed to be every class out there. Which means I have months, years of exploring of possibilities left.

Unless the devs take that away on the strength of a few complaints. Then suddenly I'm stuck in what I chose, those who have high multiclasses are either nerfed or the only ones who get to have those "god" abilities, and much is the moaning and gnashing of teeth.

My favorite tabletops are skill based, not class based. In real life I am a lawyer who can draw, sew, write poetry and prose, cook, read very fast, etc (and at one time could fence foil/epee and speak German). I have an array of hobby skills that do not fit with my class, as it were, for they are not subsets of practicing law. A diverse range of abilities makes for a more interesting character.

Cookie cutter characters? Multiclassing is far from it. It is variety, and difference, and huge amounts of choice that can be undone or redone easily enough to let folks get creative with what they pick.

I burned out on DaoC for two related reasons: lack of people to play with, and lack of ability to play alone. I was a 47 Void Eldritch (out of 50 level cap), ie a cloth wearing caster,and could not solo worth a d***. The world was one vast jungle of dangerous things that could rush right up inside my range and chomp me in two bites. If I could have kept my months of work raising my Void skills but switched over to more of a tank, I might still be in DaoC rather than HZ. Instead, I lasted 6 months in DaoC and so far over a year in HZ and going strong after deciding to switch from plain warrior to Reaver so I could try out the magic system.

So keep the multiclassing. I see no threat in others being über. I bet they would burn out *sooner* if they were not able to do the switch and level up something new.

-Levity Merrel, Crai Aisling, Sans AoP by Aiya's pad
100 Blacksmith/63 Fitter/45 Mason/45 Carpenter/82 Reaver (with 24 Warrior and 18 Spiritist, also 11 Weaponsmith for no good reason)

[Gwynnifer ApHelion]

I've always liked Kulamata's question to the masses when someone starts shouting "nerf" -- he asks (paraphrased): How many customers will the nerf bring into the game, and how many will leave because of it?

If the sum of the second is higher than the sum of the first, the cries for nerf are what will ultimately kill this game. Hopefully, TG and the devs will disregard the majority of the cries for nerf, no matter who asks for the nerf -- biped or dragon.

________________
Gwynnifer ApHelion

[Fireclaw]

Whether a player can solo 40 T5 anchor mobs simultaneously is a completely worthless statistical comparison - because noboday can do it.

Essentially the argument seems to go that because an uber biped (multiple 100s) cannot solo 40 T5 anchor mobs and a maxed dragon cannot solo 40 T5 anchor mobs, then they are at least closer in power.

This comparison has as much value as saying a maxed dragon and an uber biped are closer in power because both can kill a level 1 maggot in 1 hit.

It also has the same worth as saying that a maxed dragon and an uber biped are closer in power because neither can solo 502,367 level 120 Crimson scourge mobs at the same time.

I haven't seen any threads where anybody has claimed that a biped can solo 40x T5 anchor mobs. What I have seen are threads where bipeds can solo small groups of 10 T5 anchor mobs while a dragon has significant difficulty with just 3 and couldn't dream of taking 5, let alone 10 at a time. If we are going to make comparisons in power between dragons and bipeds, lets stick to using comparisons that actually mean something.

[Phillip]

so exactly how is making 3,452,748 posts about how a multix257x100 biped could solo 9,345,231 + 2 T5 mobs gona help you?

is it to want dragon to be able to do the same thing, or is it about not wanting biped to do such, or oh, i know, dragons justcan't do it! wow...we haven't heard that one before.

back to square one.

[bright]

I will weigh in on this because I believe the devs do read these forums and do get a sense of the general populace's feelings from them.

I like the multiclassing aspect of this game, the chance to switch and be something else without losing everything you've built up. I would be very unhappy to have it taken away. I say that even though I have not yet taken advantage of it. I can't heal or rez or do anything else "everyone" does.

But I know I *can* do it. I am *planning* to do it for RP reasons once I hit 100 Reaver. And I am taking my leveling slowly so my RP story makes sense.I have played HZ since launch day. I have not rushed to be every class out there. Which means I have months, years of exploring of possibilities left.

Unless the devs take that away on the strength of a few complaints. Then suddenly I'm stuck in what I chose, those who have high multiclasses are either nerfed or the only ones who get to have those "god" abilities, and much is the moaning and gnashing of teeth.

My favorite tabletops are skill based, not class based. In real life I am a lawyer who can draw, sew, write poetry and prose, cook, read very fast, etc (and at one time could fence foil/epee and speak German). I have an array of hobby skills that do not fit with my class, as it were, for they are not subsets of practicing law. A diverse range of abilities makes for a more interesting character.

Cookie cutter characters? Multiclassing is far from it. It is variety, and difference, and huge amounts of choice that can be undone or redone easily enough to let folks get creative with what they pick.

I burned out on DaoC for two related reasons: lack of people to play with, and lack of ability to play alone. I was a 47 Void Eldritch (out of 50 level cap), ie a cloth wearing caster,and could not solo worth a d***. The world was one vast jungle of dangerous things that could rush right up inside my range and chomp me in two bites. If I could have kept my months of work raising my Void skills but switched over to more of a tank, I might still be in DaoC rather than HZ. Instead, I lasted 6 months in DaoC and so far over a year in HZ and going strong after deciding to switch from plain warrior to Reaver so I could try out the magic system.

So keep the multiclassing. I see no threat in others being über. I bet they would burn out *sooner* if they were not able to do the switch and level up something new.

-Levity Merrel, Crai Aisling, Sans AoP by Aiya's pad
100 Blacksmith/63 Fitter/45 Mason/45 Carpenter/82 Reaver (with 24 Warrior and 18 Spiritist, also 11 Weaponsmith for no good reason)

I agree that the multiclass has its good points, i too love that you can just switch over to another class without having to start a new, also hated DAOC for the long down times man 2 minutes to kill mob 10 to get back to full health. anyway i digress. It was stated in that same post to change skills to skill based, but i think all the left and right wingers failed to notice that post since no one said anything on it. personally i thought the skill based aspect would have been neat.

It wouldnt be hard to say ok you leveled up mage to 10, and have 40 skill in fire, but you wanna be ice, so level up ice by USING IT. I could seriously see that as 1 really good way to limit peoples over all power, and it would effect the dragons too. personally i think the dragons should get a choice of 3 seperate schools. offer that well rounded, a caster and a melee. but do not allow them to mix. again i digress.

Multiclass has its good points, but it has its bad points too, then again everything has good and bad, most one can do is voice an idea and hope it gets seen andsay this would be a neat way to do something, whether its feasible or not is not the question, it is an idea they may save up for a rainy day

[Jaraiden]

I've always liked Kulamata's question to the masses when someone starts shouting "nerf" -- he asks (paraphrased): How many customers will the nerf bring into the game, and how many will leave because of it?

If the sum of the second is higher than the sum of the first, the cries for nerf are what will ultimately kill this game. Hopefully, TG and the devs will disregard the majority of the cries for nerf, no matter who asks for the nerf -- biped or dragon.

I see Kulamata's posts to the point of AE foregoing lore and their core concepts of Horizons and something along the lines of pleasing the players by giving their toons more power and such. Had AE truely wanted more customers, they would make a PvP island for players to take their combat toons to to beat each other . . . . yup, fun I guess. And they would have made dragons and humans and monks more appealing to play (completing the race, better racial abilities, more effective class).

However, for game balance where monsters (that PvE) provides a challenge it seems easier to make adjustments to the classes (as they said they would in August 2004) and make dragons comparable to multiclassed bipeds (at some level of MCing). After all, players want a challenge for their characters . . . so why should it always be on the monster side? Won't the same level of challenge (the difference of monsters' abilities/skills andcharacters' abilities/skills) be the same if both are adjusted?

And consider this. Are players so selfish that they want their characters to keep their combat powers? If they are lowered, and that of the monsters, is not the same PvE challenge there? I think it would be easier for TulgAE create that challenging environment with adjustments in both.

As others constantly say, Horizons is not PvP. Well, guess what? The concept of nerfing is more applicable to PvP games where players would be upset if their character is weaker against other characters. Right?

Think about it. Really, think! Overpowering characters leads to buffed monsters. Thus as players multiclass more for that extra masterable ability or 10/level statistic or skill, then they would want stronger monsters. And stronger monsters would (by game mechanics or players moaning for risk to reward) give better XP, thus making leveling those secondary classes easier.

Sure, some players are bored and multiclass. Well, guess what again? Players of dragons at 100/100 have been bored for months, just grinding out hoard levels that Manga has already stated is boring.

:: sighs :: Players opted to speed their character development to 100 then multiclass to turn their character (with its strengths and weaknesses) into an optimal combat toon (more strengths than weaknesses). I stated as such on the Tazoon forums. Many of the players caused their own He.ll by doing this and have either left the game or just started new characters. It would have been much better had they seen how the game was back in December 2003 and either paced themselves with AE's content or just not played it for 6 or so months.

After all, my dragon is level 72 and holding steady for dragon level 70 combat tasks. Really, are your characters with 100 levels in class X going to enjoy the level 10, 20, 30, etc. quests at level 100 in X / rating over 100?

[Aquarius]

Really, are your characters with 100 levels in class X going to enjoy the level 10, 20, 30, etc. quests at level 100 in X / rating over 100?

Yes of course [;)] did alot of quests a few days ago.. unfortunatly it seems that many classes only have quests to lvl 30 or so.. then no quests at all.. too bad [:|]

[Gwynnifer ApHelion]

Just for the record, my main (Gwynnifer) is a level 77 healer/36 spiritist, with a rating of 80. My highest alt's level is in the 30's, and I have a few alts of very low level that I use strictly for role-playing. I've had an account since December '03. I have noobjectionsto any person's playing style in a non-PvP world, whether they race to the end-game or just plod along like me. One person's boredom is another person's nirvana.

Many persons chose (or choose) to play Horizons because it offersthe opportunity to multiclass.I don't feel that those persons who've had the ability to avail themselves of this opportunity should be penalized by changing multiclassing. Nor should new players be penalized by an inability to reach their full potential due to a change in rules after-the-fact. Imbalances between classes and races can and should be addressedby the devs in a manner that does notalter the foundation of the game itself.

I've played numerous MMORPGs, and none of them offered multiclassing. I chose to play Horizons because it offers me the opportunity to be both a healer and a fighter -- not a great fighter, butat least I can stand toe-to-toe with a creature and actually damage it. For the first time in an online game as a healer, Iam not forced to sit on the groundand contemplate my navel while waiting for my mana (or power) to regenerate.For once asa healer, I'm not an automatic magnet for every creature in the game. Horizons allows me to both solo and group, and I can tell you that no other online game I've played has allowed me to successfully solo much of anything.

Would I miss that ability? You betcha I would. Multiclassing has made a world of difference tothis healer -- and that multiclassing has been offered*only* in Horizons. Imbalances in game play exist, but I'm not convinced that multiclassing is the demon.

____________________
Gwynnifer ApHelion

[Kulamata]

Oh my. First, my idea is "Don't weaken players orslow down the game to try to retain or attract players". This hasfour bases:

1. As a marketing slogan, "Now, with weaker players" is not gonna sell the game. But "Now, with New, Improved, more Monstrous Monsters" might.

2. Studies show that people do not respond equally to having something taken away vs. being given something. If the gift and the loss are of equal value, the gift will be perceived as being roughly half the worth of the lost item. It's just the way we're built.
3. Nerfs that increase grind time, such as removing manufacturing capability from the field, are pure negatives, with no offsetting positives. And since repetition is not fun per se, I think it is more likely to cause people to leave; the grind/accomplishment ratio just got worse. (Accomplishment in the sense of being able to make or do something.)

4. People get used to, and comfortable with, a certain set of "rules." Changing those rules with no gain, and some loss to the player is going to upset those who do not play the game for that sort of challenge. (Some do enjoy the challenge of adapting to, or circumventing the new rules.)

Some other items. For the record, I am strongly opposed to PvP.And I think there is plenty of challengeavailable now. Excluding the very few who have mc'd heavily AND are outstanding players, not many can romp through the ED as they used to.And the very high spawn rates in the WD spiral make it challenging for small, high level groups.

I amstrongly in favor of dragons being brought up to a parwith average bipeds who have spent similar time ingame. If that means equal to a mildly multi-classed biped, so be it.Dragons now are denied full participation, and that is blatantly unfair, and does not keep the original implied promise that playing dragons would beas much fun as any other race.

It is not the players' responsibility to play the game in a certain way to make it last. That is blaming the victims.

Multi-classing is a core portion of the game. Eliminating it makes a reallyhard marketing sell; "Now, with fewer core features". We have it, removing it would be very bad for the game's future, so figure out a positive way to use it to sell the game.There is nothing that removes the lore of the game in doing so, and there is an opportunity to expand the lore

Monster levels have increased steadily,even before multiclassing . Since we have few new players coming into the game, the average level has climbed, and it did so before mc'ing. Appropriate adjustments were made, and are continuing to be made. All fine by me.

The fundamental issue now is that the number of players is not viable. Game designchangeshave tried to retain players byslowing down the game, and itmade a repetitious, grinding game more so, and I believe it cost dearly. So it seems obvious to methat something different besides nerfing should be tried, to attract and retain the customersthat are needed tokeep this game alive and eventually, thriving.

[Fireclaw]

is it to want dragon to be able to do the same thing, or is it about not wanting biped to do such...

I think biped multiclassing should be left alone with the one possible exception that it should be harder to get lots of 100s by making the ratings penalty more significant. Bipeds should still be able to get 6x100 if they work at it, but it should take more work than it takes currently, Anikitos with 6x100 only had 54 days played and many of those days were probably played pre-merge where exp was much harder. It should take longer to get such power (maybe 1.5-3x as long as now).

Dragons on the other hand, need major buffing. ARoP should deliver a serious improvement to combat power. Even then, it is critical that dragons have some method of open-ended improvement after ARoP. This open ended improvement can take the form of repeatable ability/stat boosting quests, where the dragon would "buy" new abilities and better stats by "spending" large chunks of excess exp over the level cap (these quests would also boost rating). Alternatively, it could take the form of multiclassing.

Without some open-ended way to improve in power in the game, many maxed dragons will quit upon completing ARoP because there will be no further way to improve. Their attention span will likely be short too - they aren't going to wait 6-12 months for open-ended improvement to be added. Ideally such a system of open-ended improvement should go live at the same time as ARoP to prevent the expected exodus of post-ARoP maxed dragons.

EDIT: Note that making the ratings penalty mean more as I propose would affect both bipeds and dragons, if dragons get the open-ended advancement I think they should get.

[bright]

well one way to, in a sence limit but NOT take anything away would be to make it so that the only thing that carried over were the abilities. if one was to in a sense dump the rating system and make the characters stats based purely off the main 2 classes they are in then that would not really take anything away, would still provide class differences, and would give more of a reason to play certain classes

so as an example if you were a 100 warrior and you changed to lvl 1 mage you would keep all the abilities earned, but lose all the hp str stats boosts from warrior in steady you would basically be a lvl 1 mage with a few xtra toys. not sure what type of coding this would require. but basically it would set down a base stat tree per level of each class and that is what youd end up with. so if a warrior gets say 18 hp 9 str 7 dex and mage gets 12 hp 5 str 8 dex then at level 10 warrior you would have 180hp90str and 70 dex, on top of the base start, and when you switch to mage you start back over at the base level. so what maybe 50 hp maybe 5 or 6 in other states depending on the race.

I do also agree that the races themselves need to be looked at. the racial bonuses are so laughable. take elf for example they get 5 bow at start O WOW that helps a whole lot by 100. then they nerfed the active buff to make it not so good, and that class near useless. humans are the same exact way. half giants get a small boost to health at start wohoo.

The bonuses like that should be a % base gained xtra per level.so the giant due to its size should get say an extra 10% hp each level and the elf gets say a flat bow skill per level, of course with making skill trees learned then they could either make it added to cap or a flat out bonus. so for scouts that get 10 bow, either they get 5 bow skill from bonus and earn 10 or they get 5 skill free and only have to learn 5, they would be kinda gipped with the second one, especially in the end i thing the bonus applied to cap would be the best way to work on those thing.

Just a couple more thoughts

[Phillip]

"Anikitos with 6x100 only had 54 days played and many of those days were probably played pre-merge where exp was much harder."

54 days with prob20 hours each and all adventuring then yes it is possible. then ask if that's the norm to make a comparison.

yeah i do know what it takes to level back then.

[Entilzah]

Moved to discussions forum, seemed appropriate [:)]

[Anikitos]

Ok,

I see some are speculating about my lvlign career.
Here it goes.

I lvled my first 100 at marrows, Warrior.
Then i quit the game because there where only Marrows.
Returned after several months.

Lvled Cleric to 100, 99% solo mostly on several types of mobs like Crims and beatles at fire island.

Took Shaman after that and did that 90% solo on same types of mobs.

Took Guardian then and did about 40% Elnath and rest was i think Purple Flies in Eastern Deadlands.

Took Monk and most of the XP, over 50%, was from Elnath.

Took Spiritist, same thing there.

The rest of the non-100 classes (mage, druid, chaos) where done very fast mostly solo.

It is possible to lvl solo several 100's without big problems.
The thing is though, with places like Elnath and a few other good XP PL places, the temptation is hard.

Of what we know, humans will most of the time tend to choose the easy route.

A way to limit that is simply to decrease the spawn rate on places on Elnath or introduce several Kwellen groups there with Vexators aswell, that should stop alot of the noobies to PL there.

The problem is the powerlving, not multiclassing in itself...

As for Dragons, introduce a couple of specific dragon schools(Not biped schools) so that they can multiclass aswell.
Same rules for rating and stuff for biped and dragons.

I am sure many dragons have proposed ideas of such dragon schools.
Make them lvl those schools from 1 to 100 as bipeds do.
Make them take a hit in the rating.

When soft cap is raised to 120, let them lvl those schools to 120 as bipeds do.



Anikitos

[Phillip]

great, let's remove mobs from the fun spots in the game, that'll show'em!

exactly what we need right now, huh?

they need to code it so that noob leeching can't take place.

if people want to powerlevel and as long as they earn those XPs, i say LET THEM.

[Vlisson]

hehe phillip

always crying neeerf, everyone like to harm you? isnt it?


i think there are monsters with rating 100 and power of a rating 60
or rating 80 monsters with the power of a rating 100

like the flies in EB, rating 120 and the damage output of a lvl 80 mob

or elnath, i dont think the powerlevel of the fyakkis and the flies are worth this exp?

the monsters should be balanced. The free exp for the Flies are funny but are they in the words of Phillip "earned"?

[Phillip]

earned, brightness, as in actually killing those mobs and getting XPs, not sit around afk for hours and leech.

earned, oh unimaginable brilliance, as in actually having to look, 'hunt' for the mobs, not show up to the dynamic spawn and voila! they keeppopping like high school geektards (also known as brigthness).

yes, earned, dammit.

"i think there are monsters with rating 100 and power of a rating 60
or rating 80 monsters with the power of a rating 100"

there are monsters with rating of 100 and power of a god, too. there's no point.