Seen that somewhere already. But to prevent abuse, you've got to make it a one time decision. Once you switch to PvP yes, you must not be able to set back to no again.Originally Posted by Dragonboy
Re: PVP... Why?
Seen that somewhere already. But to prevent abuse, you've got to make it a one time decision. Once you switch to PvP yes, you must not be able to set back to no again.
Dvergar Blutaxt @ Unity (former ICE) / Paladin 97 - Mason 100 // before hibernation
Re: PVP... Why?
A) Because it's something to do aside from crafting/adventuring/questing.
B) It allows for an element of competition between players other than the number of adventure/craft levels a player has.
C) IMO consentual PvP is the best form of PvP, free PvP can be damaging to a game due to griefing. In other words, introduce a specific place for PvP, ie the realm wars of DAoC, the PvP zones in PE, etc.
D) I don't think it adds more role-playing to the overall game experience unless the players approach it with the right attitude, ie good sportsmanship.
E) Same as my answer to C). Basically if PvP can happen anywhere, any time, then it can be a bad thing. If PvP is limited to a particular area (ie the arena outside Tazoon) then people are not forced to take part if they do not wish to. Ideally if the arena outside Tazoon were turned into a PvP location, then some sort of game mechanics should be introduced to allow the arrangement of 1 on 1 or guild vs guild battles. This would result in a "wait your turn" situation, however it also allows the PvP to become a spectator sport too, there's plenty of seating there afterall.
Re: PVP... Why?
A one time decision is a bit harsh...
Maybe it should be that you can turn it from Yes to No and vica versa, but it wont work untill a relog...
Or is this whatyou mean?
Rvlion- LvL 100:100:100 - 59.3M - Lunus Ancient
Gallinthus- LvL 100:42:41 - 6.9M - Hatchling
Lohasbrand– LvL 4:3:0 – 1.0M - Hatchling
Sslion- LvL 25 Mage, 25 Warrior, 10 Cleric, 6 Druid, 6 Monk and a few Craft Schools
Re: PVP... Why?
so, what would happen then? You are on No all time long, see someone you want kick his lowlevel butt, and immediatelyy after that, you'll relog, so that you're back to no pvp. So where is the difference to griefing? You can level without being harmed, and as soon as you're back to no pvp, you don't have to face the consequences of your actions.
In a game where I saw it, you could switch between PvP on and off. But there was a time-limit. Each single PvP you participated it, prolonged the time until you could switch back to No PvP.
And why should one be able to switch anyways? Either youdo want PvP, or you don't.
Dvergar Blutaxt @ Unity (former ICE) / Paladin 97 - Mason 100 // before hibernation
Re: PVP... Why?
For myself it would be a definite NO...
The game and its schools/races ect. is way too unbalanced for a good PvP element especcially on the higher levels...
Rvlion- LvL 100:100:100 - 59.3M - Lunus Ancient
Gallinthus- LvL 100:42:41 - 6.9M - Hatchling
Lohasbrand– LvL 4:3:0 – 1.0M - Hatchling
Sslion- LvL 25 Mage, 25 Warrior, 10 Cleric, 6 Druid, 6 Monk and a few Craft Schools
Re: PVP... Why?
How about putting the PVP switch on the guildmasters command list, and having the ability to delegate PVP status to the highest tier of the guild system? Don't need anything special to be able to throw yourselve into a guild, or create one with only you in it if you want to join in the pvp, while guilds not wanting to would simply not throw that switch.
To solve the griefer bit, a 30 minute delay for changes to guild pvp status, or even just have a war system like what we've seen in UO for example.
Another thing that could be done, is for differences in the player levels to be set up to block damage if, for example, the rating of player A is 120 and the rating of player B is 50 that there is no way that they can fight each other. A simple message of "Your foe is not worth the effort", or "You are wise enough to know when you will be beaten". Or just leave the door wide open and if you're stupid enough to try to solo a player 60 levels above you, so be it. or if you are creul enough to kill a player 60 levels below you, expect his entire guild to gank you *grins*
Looting would be a big no no... in UO that could make or break a character forever, ended up that we only went out wearing the crappiest armor and weapons ever conceived, simply because of the immense chance of loosing it all to some spotty little pvp-hound with a t1 connection.
A trial only in the arena outside tazoon would be incredible, limited only to there so that people could play around with it.
Re: PVP... Why?
I know this for a fact, as I am a high ranking member of the Community of Roleplayers Europa in UO. We have a massive community on Europa, though the problem is that UO seems to be dying. They have made so many changes to it that it will fail soon, as people have just lost interest in it.
Thing is, it has no replacement. Wow looks nice, but doesnt suit everyone. From the original concept of HZ from day one of press release all those years ago, it looked like an incredibly good replacement for UO as the best MMORPG on the net. The only thing from my estimation seems to be the lack of a war system. Everything else is possible.
If Tulga wants to increase their player base by a conciderable amount, they will atleast consider introducing a RPer friendly consent based pvp system. I know a hell of a lot of people that would switch to HZ if it met the requirements asked for by most rpers. need to be able to defend your honour, or be an evil sod if you really want to, as emoting combat is a bit of a poor relative to proper RPpvp.
To a roleplayer with an imagination, a lot is possible. Give the roleplayer the tools to make his imagination come to life though, and everything is possible.
Re: PVP... Why?
Not if its done through guildwars and restricted PVPareas like the arena outside Tazoonthough.
I'm sure it would be quite easy to set up a script trigger to enable pvp actions around the pit of the arena. Vicinity is measured for the crafting machines in the same way as far as I understand.
Re: PVP... Why?
If UO goes belly-up and they have no replacement for it, then EA have no-one but themselves to blame. Twice they have cancelled sequels. Twice. At both stages the games were at 90% completion.
So, in a way, I hope UO does go south, 'cos EA need a serious wake-up call. Cancelling games they feel will compete with existing products is silly. EQ2 hasn't hurt EQ, AC2 definitely didn't hurt AC.
Any time you think AE does dumb things, just remind yourself of Electronic Arts killing off games for the silliest reason. (What exactly was so wrong with Earth & Beyond and yet leaving an inferior product like the Sims Online going?)
In HZ beta we constantly brought up the issue of PvP. David Bowman et al claimed it would never be in the game we currently know as HZ. In fact, he mooted another game along HZ's lines that would cater for the PvPer's.
That was all pre-consolidation, pre-takeover and pre- a lot of other stuff. My guess is that you'll never see PvP in this incarnation of HZ.
In a lot of ways, the game comes across (as has done since 3rd stage beta) as a refuge from PvP.
Re: PVP... Why?
Yes.. though sadly, for a MMORPG it is incredibly light on the RP part.
In order to compete with the other games out there on the market, Tulga need to cater for a lot of tastes though.
Certain mistakes in general with HZ have not only been things like PVP, but even likes of the RP server, when Europe has a absolutely massive base of RP communities, I know quite a lot of people that didnt move to horizons purely out of principal because it didnt seem that we were worthy of having our own RP server. Blight server also, I keep hearing its kinda empty, yet the test shards for other games, like UO, were always packed with people that were truely interested in helping to develop and bugtest the game. HZ doesn't give us that oportunity.
There are a lot of nice developments comming up. DND online, middle earth online to name just two. The only way to increase the playerbase is offer them something that competes with those other games.
I'm not saying that as someone who hates HZ and wants to move away, on the contrary, i've been watching this game and participating in the forums since the forums existed (the old forums that is, and through HZ.mmorpg.net when the game was still in concept.) I have friends here, and I enjoy my game along side them, but it does worry me that this game will go the same way as so many others because the competition is so wide now.
Lets look at it this way though, going back to PVP in HZ. Some people are against it, though if it was restricted to guild wars and arenas, you would not be forced into participating. Single guildless player wants to take part, fine, he/she could create his own guild and war a list of guilds that participate in RPPVP, or plain old pvp.
Areas would have noPVP, like in cities, and a switch could be thrown to stop players fighting each other during events.
Not really sure I understand why some people are against it, even if they will never notice it happening.
Re: PVP... Why?
Last game I olayed with PvP has like 2 or 3 people left (per world)in it I think although the best PvP system I have seen was in ac1 whare or so I heard you had to go out to an alter to gain the ability of pvp (whare your could fight others who did the same also) although PvP is not somethingI would like to see in Hz it draws alot of negativitys.....sureI have sometimes whenI was out crafting wishedI could blow some peeps to bits but the problems with PvP outweigh any possible good comeing out of it by alot
Do Not Meddle In The Affairs Of Dragons For You Are Crunchy And Taste Good With Ketsup
Ssafire-lvl 100 Cleric, 100 Bloodmage, 100 Mage, 100 Druid, 90 Monk, Saris
Safiretalon-lvl 66 dragon adventurer, lvl 32 dragon crafter, lvl 14 dragon lairshaper.
Guild: Dark Defenders
Horizons player since: December 21st 2003
Re: PVP... Why?
I will still play this game, even if we never get "restricted pvp".
However I favor an implementation of "pvp areas", that work somewhat along these lines:
No pvp without consent from both competitiors. (meaning you have to ask someone if he wants to duel you and he has to agree, no general "I pvp" setting on/off)
No looting of the vanquished.
No penalty for losing, no xp for winning.
Answers with above criteria in mind:
A) I see it as something to do, while waiting for other content. It allows for player made content, i.e. tournament-style festivities. It allows players to go up against not so artificial intelligence and really test their worth in battle.
B) see A
C) no idea
D) see A, would friends, guildmates, training partners, etc. not go up against each other in order to hone their skills? What is more roleplaying? Killing the same mob without purpose day in and day out or using breaks between WA attacks(->storyline) to train to be better prepared for their next onslaught?
E) check above requirements
Re: PVP... Why?
Someone mentioned AC1... They had an AMAZING use of PvP there for one event, the incarnation of Baelzheron (sp?). In a nutshell, there was a crystal that imprisoned some ultimate evil. You could Destroy the crystal, either for RP purposes, or for the fabled power it would grant the destroyer, OR you could defend it. That cavern was a constant battle ground for a month on end. Guilds taking shifts, alliances made and broken, Raids happening constantly. It was an amazing event. A month later our shard still had the crystal intact. Something the devs had never thought could happen. They had to move the story line along all the shards at once, but we got great kudos and 'perks' for our efforts from the devs.
As always with AC, there was a rich back history and lore associated with the entire event and portions of the event , (the shrine you prayed at to become PvP was a shrine to this evil being hehe). So it can and does have great uses in Lore and RP even outside of bashing one another.
But it does open a whole can of worms with making interclass balance even more important. You think people complain now about balance for classes almost noone plays. Imagine when people who are playing the powerful classes start whining.
-HratLi
HratLi SnowPelt : From Bounty to Chaos : Eyes of Istaria
MultiCrafter, Spirit Disciple, Walking Bleed Attack.
HratLi's Bucket of Fury : A Saris in cargo gear appears and beats on your foe.
Damage : 50-150 Attack Type: Bucket Duration: Until Dispelled Frequency: 0:02
Re: PVP... Why?
Someone above mentioned an arena setup for PvP. This was bandied about in beta as well, mainly as a way to get the devs to own up towhat the coliseum in Tazoon was for [:P]
I can't see much wrong with having PvP areas such as an arena. They've worked for so long on blue server EQ and worked well and didn't interfere at all with the business of level grinding.
BUT...
Spot on. That's probably what holds the devs back, or should hold them back. It will give rise to endless arguments over who's better and bigger ,and who sucks, etc.
Like I wrote earlier though, I cannot PvP in this version of HZ, not in amy shape or form.
Re: PVP... Why?
The people that don,t like pvp have either never tried it or are not good at it so they automatically don't want it. If you are going to build a game and make it as real as possible, then you need to have the pvp. I played Uo for over 7 yrs and most of my characters were PVP characters. No i didnt not kill innocent people even when it was allowed. This game wouldnot be like that anyway, due to there would be nothing to gain. In UO once you killed someone you had loot rights to all of their stuff, that does no happen in Horizons. PVP would be awesom for torunments or as suggested for guild wars, if you want to PVP join that type of guild. To say that it shouldnt be in at all is just as lame as saying there shouldn't be crafting. If you want to cook in the kitch while im out fighting people for fun, then who says either of us are wrong? It is a game. PVP is not for everyone, some just dont have the refelxxes for it or the speed to think about the next move befor they are dead. Don't put it down though just because it isn't your cup of tea.
Re: PVP... Why?
sorry, that is bullsh*it^10. There has to be not a single bit of reward, these "players" just want to see their kill-list grow and grow. They give a sh*t about what they could loot. What could a lowlevel own anyways, that a highlevel would be interested in? It's nothing else than some braindead kid showing himself how "cool" he is. The kind of people the whole gaming world has no need for. [+o(]
Dvergar Blutaxt @ Unity (former ICE) / Paladin 97 - Mason 100 // before hibernation
Re: PVP... Why?
Sweeping genearlization.The people that don,t like pvp have either never tried it or are not good at it so they automatically don't want it.
As real as possible? Then remove the dragons, elves, dwarves, but leave dryads. Dryad are real, the rest, well they are mythical.If you are going to build a game and make it as real as possible, then you need to have the pvp.
Speed and reflexes in Horizons?PVP is not for everyone, some just dont have the refelxxes for it or the speed to think about the next move befor they are dead.
Click button, watch, when needed click another button.
Hmmn. This isn't an FPS.
Don't build it up just because it is your cup of tea.Don't put it down though just because it isn't your cup of tea.
Respect for people works both ways.
Want your point of view taken seriously? Take theirs seriously and don't insult them.
Oh, to late.
-Digit Dryad
Chaos
Re: PVP... Why?
Many of the present players would automatically leave, as they abhor PVP, and the environment it engenders.
How many PVP'ers out in the world would then be attracted to Horizons? Hz is widely derided in that world as being a "carebear" game. Not many would come, and those that did would come because they see a flock of tender lambs, innocent and unskilled in the art of player slaughter.
And of course they'd be continually demanding that their class be made more suitable for PvP'ing, vis a vis some other class's high level players that they never ever fight anyway.
And it would torpedo the "Game for the rest of us" marketing campaign.
____Kulamata Quality Armor___
None Genuine without this Pawprint `',''
Achiever 86%, Explorer 60%, Socializer 46%, Killer 6%.
Re: PVP... Why?
WOW you must have been killed several times py other players. For one not all games have a kill list or even a number. See i played Ultima Onlune which has PVP. You had so many free kills befor you would be com a murderer. Most poeple i know would kill to their limit then have to wait 20 hrs i believe it was of actual game play for each kill to drop off. So your theory on them just wanting to max it out is way off. Plus in Ultima online, the person the died had the option to decide if they would give the pvpre a murder count of not. Meaning i could kill all day and never get a kill. Furthermore, even if i did kill 500 people, there is no way to show that i had done so. I could see it but noone else could. Not all pvper kill the innocent. In UO there are 2 worlds set up for playing, they are exactly alike except one is for pvp one isn't. If you dont want to pvp they stay in Trammel if the do they go to flusia or how ever it is spelled. Not all games have xp points to get lvl, Ultima online didnt, Hell your max hp was 120 and that was if you were lucky and found a scroll to increase it to that. As for wanting things newer player had, sure. In uo murders were very limited to the lands that they could go to, they couldn't go to the best hunting spots or into town. So all the non killers had free reign of the good lootables. NOT all games are based on millions of XP points to lvl. Not all games make you change classes to do different things. In uo you were given 700 points to put on and crafts you wanted but that was the max.
SO befor you start calling "Bull Sh*it" make sure you actually have a clue to what you are talking about. anyone can kill a non-thinking creature. Not everyone can kill someone that thinks back and reacts. There is alot more challenge to killing someone that knows what they are doing instead of a computer character. I had no problem killing the highest lvl creatures in the game in a matter of second but frequently died to other players. It was all the fun part of the game. If you can't handle PVP then just don't do it. Ohhh and btw Im not abraindead kid, that wants to be cool. Im a 30yr old that likes a challenge.
Re: PVP... Why?
I think people are looking at this wrong. Noone is saying make the entire world PvP. maybe do like some suggested and have tournments or have guildingwars. if you arent in a guild that wars, then you dont and cant be affected from the pvp. Ultima Online had it set up that both guild leaders had to agree to become a warring guild. one would send a request and the other could accept or decline. There doenst always have to be slaughter of innocense as you suggest. I realize that yes some PVPers do that but not all. I see no enjoyment in kiling new players or players at cant defend themselves. There just is not skill required to do it so i don't. You also have to think that just bescause someone is good at pvp now, doesn't mean that they were always good. There is just a much more fun lvl of excitement to fight something that has an actual brain. Really pvp isnt much different then some of the players in horison going out slaughtering mobs to get their buddies xp. give those mobs a brain and let them react and i bet things would go differently. You wouldn't have creature doing random attacks you would have coordinated attacks coming at you. that you would have to actually defend against. There actually an art in PVP fighting, you can't kill everyone in the same way. In horizons, once you have a set of spells set up you can kill everything in the game useing the same combo. try that in pvp and you will die alot. They could also do as others have said and makt the collleseum in tazoon for pvp. if you don't want to do it, don't go.
Personally i don't think PVP would work well in Horizons, due to the different class, and some being much stronger then others.
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