Devs - a word on priority please

[gopher65]

You are assuming TulgAE has a vendetta against the confectioners class. Well let us ask. Is this true Amon? Do you really hate confectioners and want them all to leave the game?

[Seranthor]

I'm not assuming anything, examine the evidence. every other class except ALC has all their expert forms in game even the allegedly maligned dragons have all their scale forms in game. The CNFs are still missing at least 24 JMAN food forms and ALL of their expert food forms. [:@]. The are the ONLY class that have their craft shop set up to benefit other classes more than themselves (Thank you TG).

Examine the data, how many level 100 CNFs are left in game? How many of each of the other classes, I'd be willing to bet that they have the least amt of 100s in the game. If you'd like to dispute perhaps you'd like to start a CNF and see how far you get before you throw your hands up in utter frustration and say screw it.

[Jaraiden]

It has already been stated IN DETAIL what would LIKELY happen to foods.

1) DPs will be increasedto 75% max decrease from 20% max decrease (current)
2) Foods will be made more effective
3) possibility that passive DP removal will be scraped (not definate)

That's all I remember.

That is what I remember also from a developer posting on the Tazoon boards. Well 1 and 2 at least. Hopefully DP removal while offline (aka sleeping) will remain.

Then if your information is correct dont you think it would be extremely beneficial if TG would actually finish the CNF class instead of treating them like the redheaded stepchildren and locking them under the stairs?

Certainly a crowded room with dragons(unfinished content that should have been in game by February 2004).

[IndyMan]

it is an entire populace problem Indyman, Several questions I'd pose for you.

1) How would you like to try and level yoru adventure class to 100 in 410 or 510 armor?

how do you go here from the conf issue ? not being able to make 10 different foods that all do the same thing is not a big deal to me, so it is not a populace issue in my mind. as long as there is 1 food for each level then that is enough for me to choose from. not having ANY armor would be a populace problem.

2) How would you like it if your chosen craft class lost 1/2 your forms, or worse yet, if they had never been implemented?

If this means that instead of having 10 different foods that are in the same skill range as opposed to 1 then no big deal. So I have to eat apple pie to heal up instead of having a choice of peach,berry,pineapple,pumpkin. It is not a populace issue as long as we have at least 1 thing at each level to eat. It's not like we really taste what is made for us to remove DPs, so to me it is not a populace issue, it is a CNF issue because they want to be able to make 6 different pies that all do the same thing.

3) How are you going to feel when passive DP removal becomes nothing more than a memory?

Why would it be a memory ? is TG going to dump the class ? Are players going to stop being a CNF ?


perhaps i am missing the boat here, but saying that 25 Jman forms are missing means little to me as long as there are forms available to make food items. I would not choose to be a CNF so I have no clue about missing forms.

Does different food remove DPs at a different rate ? IF no, then definately no big deal. IF yes, then I would ask is there at least 1 form for each degree of DP removal ?

[Snowdonia Honeythorn]

perhaps i am missing the boat here, but saying that 25 Jman forms are missing means little to me as long as there are forms available to make food items. I would not choose to be a CNF so I have no clue about missing forms.

And what I have bolded is exactly the point. If you haven't a clue how the school works, what the products in question do, or why it is so vital to have every food type available to us then please either educate yourself about it or keep your comments to something you DO know about.

Belittling an issue you know nothing about does little more than prove your ignorance. If you wish to educate yourself about food, their effects, why more food types are better than less, the Confectioner trade etc please feel free to PM me or contact a local Confectioner on your shard and I will surely be glad to help (as I'm sure they would as well). :)

[Seranthor]

Ok Indyman I'll hold your hand through my post and explain it all for you.

"1) How would you like to try and level yoru adventure class to 100 in 410 or 510 armor? "

was a question designed to make you think about how difficult it would be to level with substandard or insanely below your level armor. I am drawing a parallel between that and the fact that CNFs had no way for many months to level except on a few of their Jman foods rather than the ones they were entitled to.

"2) How would you like it if your chosen craft class lost 1/2 your forms, or worse yet, if they had never been implemented?'

Again is a parallel for how difficult it would be to level your crafting on far less than you were entitled to on your forms, I dont know what if any crafting class you are so I have to address this in a general tone.

"3) How are you going to feel when passive DP removal becomes nothing more than a memory?"

Is intended to ask you how you are going to react IF TG implements their plan to remove passive DP removal (meaning you WILL have to consume food) to lessen your death points.

Now to address your own questions

Does different food remove DPs at a different rate ? YES
IF no, then definately no big deal (of course its not to you because you have stated you wouldn't be a CNF)
IF yes, then I would ask is there at least 1 form for each degree of DP removal ?
Perhaps you've failed to understand the more different types of food available the faster you can decrease your death timer. Also Note, there is Ambrosia which will remove a full DP each time consumed (however, TG hasn't seen fit yet to implement the level 80+ versions yet.)

Perhaps this will sufficiently at least introduce you to the subject matter of which you have been spouting off on.

[IndyMan]

Belittling an issue you know nothing about does little more than prove your ignorance. If you wish to educate yourself about food, their effects, why more food types are better than less, the Confectioner trade etc please feel free to PM me or contact a local Confectioner on your shard and I will surely be glad to help (as I'm sure they would as well). [img]/Web/emoticons/emotion-1.gif[/img]

If you are complaining because you dont have 100 different foods that do exactly the same thing, then I would rather TG spend time on other things.

I do agree with you about bags being dyed not being a priority either.

Get some core issues resolved, add some real loot and players will join the game AND stay.

[Jaraiden]

No, but it is a known issue that is scheduled to be addressed after the AROP is complete. The reason is because Manga has a plan for the foods and he is also the one doing the AROP. The rest of us have our own tasks we are working on.

- Amon

Just do this in two parts. Not rocket science.

#1
Journeymen foods being 200/400 skill more then their Beginner counterparts - Tier II + 200 for tier III, Tier III + 200 for tier IV. Basically copy and paste. Check the descriptions, add the sound, test internally, test on Blight. All done.

Copy and paste, adding another 200 for the Expert versions. Test and such.

Add Expert Ambrosia. Test, test.

Put the Journeymen formulas on trainers and Expert formulas on monster loot tables and Vielo(per convoluted precedence). Granted, would be nice for the Empire to know how to make these more complex foods, but go figure - monster loot tables. Later, perhaps add in more Confectioner maps for finding theseformulas (always loved it when they were looted) and confectioner quests (which makes more sense . . . . but you know, takes effort and all).


#2
ThenManga revamps the Death Penalty system and food. Update the formulas. Test, test, QA. Done.

Copy and paste, adding another 200 for the Master versions. And test too.

Really, is it that hard for a two step process?

[Snowdonia Honeythorn]

It wouldn't actually be as simple as all that Jaraiden but it is very close.. They have to concider the ingredients per food type for T3/4 but there is a bit of a pattern (IE the ingredient that makes jerky a T# item is what make roasts a T#) with some and they would also need to fit names for each food type.

But no, it shouldn't be as hard as it is kind of been made out to be. Conf has always taken a backseat since it was added to the game and I doubt they are going to change that now. Of course I don't get this sort of thinking and never have since it is a school like every other that deserves just as much attention.

But again, I'll wait and see what Manga has in store.

[Pharcellus]

Here's a little edumacation for those who don't really understand how food works:

Each time you eat a serving of a specific kind of food (ie, produced by one specific form), your DP timer goes down by 3 to 6 minutes, depending on the food. If you eat another serving of that same food within 10 minutes, which makes sense if you have multiple servings on hand, and plenty of DP timer left, then the effect is HALVED. That means only a 1.5 to 3 minute reduction.

However, if you eat a serving of a DIFFERENT kind of food (ie, produced by a different form), it has full effect.

Here, let me draw a picture:

Assume I have just got a death point; that is an 8-hour addition to my DP timer. "}:=D" is me with my mouth open, and "<-" is me shoving the food to the right into my mouth, and its resultant effect on my DP timer.

}:=D <- Baked Trout = 3 minute reduction, 07:57:00 left
}:=D <- Baked Trout = 1.5 minute reduction, 07:55:30 left
}:=D <- Baked Trout = 1.5 minute reduction, 07:54:00 left
}:=D <- Baked Trout = 1.5 minute reduction, 07:52:30 left
}:=D <- Baked Trout = 1.5 minute reduction, 07:51:00 left

(10 minutes pass)

}:=D <- Baked Trout = 3 minute reduction, 07:38:00 left
}:=D <- Baked Trout = 1.5 minute reduction, 07:36:30 left
}:=D <- Baked Trout = 1.5 minute reduction, 07:35:00 left
}:=D <- Baked Trout = 1.5 minute reduction, 07:33:30 left
}:=D <- Baked Trout = 1.5 minute reduction, 07:32:00 left

Now, contrast this with:

}:=D <- Baked Trout = 3 minute reduction, 07:57:00 left
}:=D <- Hot and Spicy Gruok Soup = 3 minute reduction, 07:54:00 left
}:=D <- Hot and Spicy Chicken Soup = 3 minute reduction, 07:51:00 left
}:=D <- Hot and Spicy Beef Soup = 3 minute reduction, 07:48:00 left
}:=D <- Hot and Spicy Venison Soup = 3 minute reduction, 07:45:00 left

(10 minutes pass)

}:=D <- Baked Trout = 3 minute reduction, 07:32:00 left
}:=D <- Hot and Spicy Gruok Soup = 3 minute reduction, 07:29:00 left
}:=D <- Hot and Spicy Chicken Soup = 3 minute reduction, 07:26:00 left
}:=D <- Hot and Spicy Beef Soup = 3 minute reduction, 07:23:00 left
}:=D <- Hot and Spicy Venison Soup = 3 minute reduction, 07:20:00 left

In the same time, I got rid of 12 minutes more DP time by simply eating a variety of foods. Now, extend that with having 48 varieties of food in a particular tier. Makes having lots of food varieties really worth something, doesn't it? With a good selection of food, you can get rid of a death point's worth of DP timer in just a few 10 minute periods.

THAT is the problem. Beginner (ie, Tier 1/2) foods are all there. Journeyman (T3/T4+) is missing half of them. Since higher-level players get NO benefit (that means they don't see the DP timer reduced at all) from lower-tiered foods (with the exception of T4), they have to buy more servings of less variety of the same foods and wait longer to consume them.

Further, many of the missing forms are of the kind that are harder to make, and thus give more benefit to the consumer AS WELL AS experience to the cook.

[Snowdonia Honeythorn]

Just a small correction Malt that my friends brought to my attention, any multiples of the same food type eaten directly after the first have no effect at all. So you don't even get half effect.

Many an Ambrosia has been wasted that way.

[Soulsmaster]

However, if you eat a serving of a DIFFERENT kind of food (ie, produced by a different form), it has full effect.

It is well known that eating some of many kind of food is more healthy than eating always the same food :P

Anyway last time i ate some food the bonus to dp removal time was different, well it was some time ago.

The effectiveness of the food was full every 5 minutes, and if u ate something else the result was proportional to the time passed from the first snack.

for example:

1st snack: 3 minutes removal

5sec out of 5:00 passed

2nd snack: 3 sec removal

1:40sec out of 5:00 passed

3rd snack:1:00 sec removal



well was quite some time ago don't remember if was exactly like that, but surely i remember eating 2 same things at the same time was completely useless. Maybe then they balanced that a bit already?



Regardly the rest, since itshould be common sense and some roleplay also to stay alive instead of playing berserk and then eat everything u can to recover, i think it's wise to keep thedps kinda hard to cure.

A note overall:
Also don't think it's nice to keep it all on the power and stats side. Could be nice if confectioners could do also some beverage and drinking stuff that have dunnow some negative and *burp* effects, well just for fun... This to say, just i don't see that need to force making the fun class of confectioner a powerbased and competitive class (not saying anyone is specifically, just felt that overall).could be harsh and not nice in the end.

well just my impression.

EDIT: underlined some sentences for fast readers

[Seranthor]

Perhaps all those that think they know how food works could invest in some and actually test your own theories... :) I'm certain that CNFs know what their products do and I'm reasonably certain that some of you have no clue how food work given some of what drivel I've seen posted... :)

[Soulsmaster]

If someone would actually read the posts he's replying would see what is the mean of some esperienced facts reported that were part of istaria before he started confectioner....

[Seranthor]

let me carefully guide you through this again...

lets say for the sake of discussion that you have1 deathpoint you'd like to get rid of and have the following foods.

16 glazed roasted trout (6 min)
16 sweet and savory gruok soup (3 min)
16 sweet and savory minced trout soup (3min)
16 glazed gruok and carrot kabobs (4min)
16 glazed trout and carrot kabobs (4min)


(8:00:00 remaining)
eat 1 glazed roasted trout (time remaining 7:54:00)
eat 1 sweet and savory gruok soup (time remaining 7:51:00)
eat 1 sweet and savory minced trout soup (time remaining 7:48:00)
eat 1 glazed gruok and carrot kabob (time remaining 7:44:00)
eat 1 glazed trout and carrot kabob (time remaining 7:40:00)
then you'd wait 10 min and then repeat the cycle...

now, assuming you dont keep track and you eat a glazed trout in 5 min instead of the 10 min you'll get a message and your 6 min time of food would only be worth 3 min because you didn't wait the full 10 min.

if you only waited 1 min to eat the next glazed trout your timer would only decrease by 36 seconds instead of 6 min.

Eaten in proper moderation in the above example you'd remove a total of8 hours of your DP (all of it in fact) in a total of 2hr 40min. You'd be able to remove that DP faster if you used a more diverse selection of food, I just used these 5 for an example.

Argue with me if you must, but this is how its currently set up in game, think I'm wrong, test it and I look forward to your own results... :) :)

[Vandellia]

I have been silent up to now Get a grip get a clue learn how something works before you make assumptions
1. food has a 10 minute timer it like ambrosia can not be eaten but 1 time every 10 minutes.
(ie you get no benifit from eating the same item at anyinterval less then 10 minutes PERIOD)
2. There are 8 soups at 3 minutes per usage 6 steaks at 3 minutes6 kebobs at 4 minutes 6 pickled fors at 4 minutes 6 jerky forms at 5 minutes 6 stew forms at 5 minutes off 6 pie forms at 6 minutes and 6 roasts at 6 so if all forms wer in it would give player (8x3)+(6x3)+(6x4)+(6x4)+(6x5)+(6x5)+(6x6)+(6x6) or in simple words
24+18+48+60+72 for a total of 222 minutes off ever 10 minutes or in super plain language 3 hours 42 minutes every 10 minutes food benifits all expecially for those of you that are ambrosia imparied curently due to developement issues the time taken off is just over 2 hours as 24 forms are still missing. So you dont use food thats fine but Confectioners have been Patient a year after release they are a partially completed trade skill if you craft at all how would you like to have half your crafting forms missing after a year?? Confectioners are not going to go away they are part of the game and if/when passive deathpoint removal goes away or if it had never been in gam you would be screaming at tulga to fix it. I Seriously hop that passive death point removal goes away forever and that ambrosia will only be able to be used 1 time ever 24 clock hours. I can only now imagine the scramble to get confectioners fixed if that happens

[Seranthor]

Of course Vandi... most folks dont care about something until it directly affects their fun factor, then they want heaven and earth moved to fix it yesterday... :-)... I for one hope TPTB get it right before the blood starts flowing into the streets over passive DP removal.

[Soulsmaster]

I'm sorry i thought u were referring to me, instead u saying that is pharcellus that is wrong? well since i said was long time ago it was "aproximately" how it was when i tried that (seems the only error was 5 min instead of 10).

I assumed pharcellus was right, so the post wasn't the absolute detailed truth toprove he was wrong just to say it was different last time.. so maybe they changed something already? but then seems they changed nothing... ok then too bad :\

Don't read this line it is useless

Well for other parts i'm glad most people that do confectioner don't think likeyou fewdo or we will have to eat food to stay alive... and yes i still think confectioner is a class for "fun" not for power. Still the only one that is not powerleveled on mass scale... i agree that powerlvling boring craft classes can be a solution, but wanting that lvling confectioner is very easy just to say "hey i have 203943928 total craft class rating 3847821" don't seems to me a nice solution for that. Still think fireworks and "useless" things for fun, get sold more often than tricky minor stats or timers bonuses items, like food actually is.