Bringing the human back to MMORPG

[Seikojin]

:o
I was recently in a event in a different MMORPG and it was really really really fun. The interaction, the excitment... All there... I know it will be something to remember... But it brought something I think I barely touched on both in the forums and in game with others... And it can relate to quests...

Events... Nothing like a story arc, but more so something going on ran by WM's / GM's That get people involved... Instead of having that AoP just spawn and be uber, control it, and target healers, and then root, mezz tanks, while bringing in reinforcements in spawn or more WM's/GM's to work on culling the weak as it were and bringing a human challenge to the game...


Hmmm Sounds alot like PvP... But you could at least make some micro story to give it reason... Maybe make some other things to so and run, but the key is having someone running real working events on a DAILY basis... Or weekly...

Anyone who has been in a company ran in game event knows this is the best thing to keep them involved...

[Jaraiden]

That is what Wish was striving for as I recall and a part of their downfall (the cost for such a staff), but is a feature in some plannedMMORPGswhere a WM could "possess" a monster for more interaction (vice some combat).

However, I don't think the interaction I've seen in NWN persistent worlds could work in Horizons w/o a lot of coding changes and allowing volunteers to possess monsters for some dynamics. It would need TulgAE staff for that and to monitor such interaction and a reward system (adjusting experience and/or giving items).

Also, most of such events, to be rewarding, would be driven by lore and involve roleplaying. Would take additional efforts by all involved.

[Mandovar]

Hm, thats very poor if this doesnt work. I have played Meridian 59 for a long time. This game is from 1996 or 97. In germany you have Bards and Guides on every server. Guides ar payed bye the Company, Bards are Players who have a special acount.Bards cancreate every Monster at every Place speak for the Monster or for NPCs. Guides can change Monsters. They can increase or decrease Hp, stuff every single Monster with special loot, just as they want. There is an Gamemail system, the best PvP system ever and lots more. May be Tulga should copy this system of Bards and Guides, guides are for Programming and bugfixes and so on and Bards are Players that makes events and such things.

[Tantalyr]

Unfortunately Mandovar, the terrific notion and practice of utilizing players as volunteer guides or helpers in an MMORPG was pretty much destroyed in the U.S. around 2000 when a group of disgruntled player guides in Ultima Online sued Electronic Arts demanding compensation. It seems that under American labor laws, for-profit companies may not utilize volunteer workers, but must instead pay anyone who renders services to them.

So these former player guides filed a class-action lawsuit against EA, on behalf of themselves and all other former and present player guides (no doubt numbering in the hundreds, if not thousands), demanding to be paid $10 per hour for all the hours they had been volunteer player guides. Unsurprisingly EA immediately dropped all player guides from UO.

I never heard how the lawsuit eventually turned out, but I very much doubt EA or any other MMORPG company would create a system permitting American players to act as volunteers in a game just because of the mere filing of the lawsuit.

[imported_Denrath]

Also, around the same time as the UO volunteer lawsuit, there was another one being done by volunteers for AOL against AOL. If I remember right, that kind of kicked off the whole Ultima one. But since it has been proven that these kinds of cases CAN go to court (despite how they turned out), it is easier to just not deal with it.

[Tantalyr]

After a bit of research I found an article on the TerraNova blog suggesting that the UO "volunteer" class action lawsuit was settled:

It looks like the Ultima Online Counselors lawsuit has reached some sort of settlement. While I can't track down any official info at EA, the main link everyone seems to be pointing to is over at Gamerifts (2 April entry) where they have an image of a purported check sent out to former counselors (if anyone finds other info, please do post it). The amount given to at least one volunteer - $1,267.21. Just a little background - a group of former UO volunteer helpers filed a class action lawsuit against EA in 2000 (they'd been previously hit with a suit about their quality of service but that was dismissed as far as I can tell). The main claim was for minimum wages and overtime compensation per the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA). You can hit the Lum the Mad archives search for some additional background, an old Salon article for more past coverage, or an always entertaining Tweety Rant archive entry on the subject. The judge's order certifying the group as a class (issued 24 September 2002) is particularly interesting in the way they restate and consider the claimants case, trying to put into context the notion of wages and labor alongside stuff like shards.

I mentioned to Scott Moore (who has a lot of experience/hands-on knowledge with VEs) I was going to do a blurb about the matter here and he wisely suggested I try to pitch the discussion away from simple rehash to what this might mean for the future of volunteer usage in these kinds of spaces. I've certainly long thought the issue of "free labor" (be it via helper programs, content producers, or unpaid testers) remains one of most underexplored - but critically important - aspects facing games (and online communities more generally). So, is there anything new we can learn from this apparent settlement? Are there interesting related stories emerging in other places worth discussing? Are there good non-VE/game spaces who confront this same problem that we can learn something from?

[Senkeleron Fell]

Stupid bastards. I wish all of them would be banned from MMORPGs for life.

[Stranyr]

At the same Time Asheron's call also had volunteers working for them and they dismissed them all because of the lawsuit, I am not sure if any compensation was given to them but I don't think so. The silliest thing about it is that all of the volunteers knew what they were getting into before they accepted the position. It's another case of Greed vs. Morality in which not unsurprisingly Greed won out.

IMO the court could have easily upheld the position that the company had fairly warned the volunteers that no payment would be given for their services and that as reasonable person of employable age thier consent to become volunteers created a binding contract in which either party had the right to terminate the contract. (IE the volunteer could leave or the company could remove the privallages that the volunteer recieved for being a volunteer).

There are several jobs available that don't fall under the Fair wage act whose salaries are not protected by law or that have no minimum rate(restaurant wait staff and commision based sales people and many others).

Sadly the Class action law suit is such a powerfull force in the United States that even companies that have a vialble defence often simply settle the suit because it will cost them less money.

[Guaran]

Having volunteers just run the mobs, choose which player they attack, etc could make it alot more fun, and even be fun for the player running the mob.

Would be nice if they found a way to do it.

[Tryagain]

compensate with in game money ;) and special equipment. But I suppose someone somewhere would find that to get upset over. So whereas I do not want the playerbase to start doing Tulga's job I can at least recognize that they need help.

How I am not sure but yes events can be the highlight of any MMO.

[Hasai]

....It seems that under American labor laws, for-profit companies may not utilize volunteer workers, but must instead pay anyone who renders services to them....

Ah; ain't Socialism grand?
[li]

[Peter1968]

Ah; ain't Socialism grand?
[img]/Web//emoticons/emotion-60.gif[/img]

I hope you're joking, 'cos America wouldn't know socialism from the rings around Saturn.

[Dragonboy]

Unfortunately Mandovar, the terrific notion and practice of utilizing players as volunteer guides or helpers in an MMORPG was pretty much destroyed in the U.S. around 2000 when a group of disgruntled player guides in Ultima Online sued Electronic Arts demanding compensation. It seems that under American labor laws, for-profit companies may not utilize volunteer workers, but must instead pay anyone who renders services to them.

So these former player guides filed a class-action lawsuit against EA, on behalf of themselves and all other former and present player guides (no doubt numbering in the hundreds, if not thousands), demanding to be paid $10 per hour for all the hours they had been volunteer player guides. Unsurprisingly EA immediately dropped all player guides from UO.

I never heard how the lawsuit eventually turned out, but I very much doubt EA or any other MMORPG company would create a system permitting American players to act as volunteers in a game just because of the mere filing of the lawsuit.

Americans love to sue...
Americans buy coffee at fast food chain and sue because it is too hot... (Ice coffee a nice idea??)
Americans start smoking by themselves and sue the tabaco companies because it is dangerous to their health... (Dont start smoking a nice idea??)

It is a pity the american culture has become so twisted concerning the subject of sueing companies over the years, human played mobs would be a lot better then predictable AI mobs...

[Khoal]

[img]/Web/emoticons/emotion-3.gif[/img]
... But you could at least make some micro story to give it reason... Maybe make some other things to so and run, but the key is having someone running real working events on a DAILY basis... Or weekly...

I'd like to see miniature storyline events more often, yes. The only problem I can see is that the current WM-run events end up causing horrible lag problems (on my machine, at least).

However, if a WM were to create a miniature event by setting up a series of level-specific spawn points for critters (perhaps with their loot tables tweaked a bit to reflect the fact that they're event mobs), then weave a short story-line into it? I think that might work.

Gruoks gone berzerk on Lesser Aradoth, for instance. Zombie hordes marching through the area between Dalimond and Chiconis. A lost gnome in the blizzard outside of Mahagra?

You get the idea...

[Mandovar]

Best sue i heard about till now is the guy in his Caravan who droves on an highway, starts the speed control andgoes back in the Caravan to make a Coffee...... You all now what happens. He won and get new Caravan and a million dollar from the Cpmpany which build the Caravan....

[Seikojin]

:o to bring it back to the topic... I meant Tulga employees running events... No volunteer events... I was in UO when that stuff hit the fan...

There doesnt need to be alot of people to do it either... The CSR/TSR's can do it when they dont have alot of tickets... (CSR = Customer Support Represenative and TSR = Technical Support Represenative if anyone wonders)...

[refuse]

It is a pity the american culture has become so twisted concerning the subject of sueing companies over the years, human played mobs would be a lot better then predictable AI mobs...

A thought I had.

What if Order people could port to a different shard.
That shard being Chaos.
On Chaos these players would be "alien" (i.e. WA).
They could then adventure on Chaos (limits to prevent going into beginner cities), perhaps they can only "exist" in blighted areas.
Perhaps the WA are the other shards fighting to stay alive.
People on order who when to chaos would see Chaos as all blighted except where they can travel. i.e. their existance blights the other shard.

Chaos people could do the same on order.

Not sure what about unity.

[Dragonboy]

Maybe a nice idea...
Simply make ppl chose sides from the start...
Join the Withered Aegis or the living races in both their struggle for domination of Istaria...

But this would open up things for PvP and the game aint ready for this...
To much unbalance... but interesting...

[refuse]

But this would open up things for PvP and the game aint ready for this...
To much unbalance... but interesting...

True.
The idea would be a "blighted" area where these "cross overs could live".
Outside of that, they can't travel.

A settlement of sorts.

[Dragonboy]

But this would open up things for PvP and the game aint ready for this...
To much unbalance... but interesting...
True.
The idea would be a "blighted" area where these "cross overs could live".
Outside of that, they can't travel.

A settlement of sorts.

Why not make this blighted area the true and only border between the teritory of the living races and the Withered Aegis, and when strateticly placed towns are captured by either the "good" of "Evil" side a certain area surrounding the town becomes blighted or clear of blight.

Capturing a townis done by killing all npc-guards and or different allined gifted players and maybe some named super mob which is the "leader" of the town.