Patcher problems being solved... don't NOBODY quit just yet.

[refuse]

My fear is the timing.

With so many returning for some free time (come back and play offer), to see AROP and with the other issues they are looking at. Not getting into the game is very very scary.

And Aamer said.
If you can't load that first page, you are dead.

(NOTE: in my machine it works, but I can still look to the bottom right of my screen and see the control trying to load, it takes quite some time. I actually thought it was broken when I hit the button to start playing as it didn't start. I had to wait for the control to load.).

Also the fact that their is a control loading as soon as you load the page (the install button showed up) is scary.

Basically people have to load the control and freeze before they can find out how to play with the old loader.

And a reboot? In XP?)

[Vahrokh]

Hmm I am seeking a job.

I already made several proggies that connect via Internet and do data transfers.

Not one needs an Active X.
Not one needs a setup or admin account.
Not one needs anything but to be double clicked and start, then does its job, then ends.

Coincidence: I don't believe in a single thingmade by Microsoft and use other stuff...

[AmonGwareth]

The ActiveX control is not there to transfer files or anything of that sort. The ACtiveX control is used to update the patcher exe itself. After that, the EXE file takes over.

Dennett is continuing to work on the patcher and we appreciate your patience in this matter. I encourage everyone who is having difficulties to open a ticket at support . istaria . com and the customer support team will assist you. They have been working hard to get many players online and playing.

- Amon

[cauri_order]

Amon,

I appreciate the post, I really do. But what are the chances of getting it to work after Dennett tried to troubleshoot it for me in IRC last night? S/he doesn't know what my error message means.

The old patcher isn't going anywhere is it?

[AmonGwareth]

Not that I know of, until the new one works just fine.

- Amon

[refuse]

Not that I know of, until the new one works just fine.

- Amon

Can they please not require the new patcher to get to the old?

Ok, I know it isn't the "patcher" but the patcher to the patcher that seems to be the problem.

Perhaps update the patcher as part of the patcher for the next time the patcher starts!

Players Like Aamer can't even get through that page.
People with .net 2.0 seem to have a problem also (the two I helped, had to uninstall .net 2.0 and revert to 1.1. Not a quick process.)

[Levity]

I really hope no one quits just because they cannot get in the game for a day or two. I know, I know, the "I'm quitting" comments are likely from people who were looking for a reason to go, but on their face they seem a vast overreaction.

I will concede that I am less stressed than many, for the new patcher has only glitched once for me. Yesterday I logged in with it at 3 or 4 pm eastern, played until 5:30 eastern, left, returned at 7 eastern. Upon my return, the new patcher resulted in IE just sitting there saying "done" instead of proceeding with log in after I put in my second-required password. I clicked on the old patcher and voila, was in game. I'm not sure that's worth a ticket, not if the new patcher works again next time I try.

Anyway, I've had times in the past when I could not log in -- most notably when my hard drive went corrupt -- but that did not make me throw in the towel, though I did yell at CS for a while before finding out the problem was at my end. I know someone who's been unable to patch in since just post-merge and he'd come back in a heartbeat if he could. In fact, I intend to notify him of the new patcher and see if that works for him, which would be ironic and wonderful.

Stick it out, folks. If you love playing the game, don't leave it forever just because you were blocked from it for a few days.

-Levity Merrel

[imported_Leannae]

I've never had a problem with any of the patchers until today. At first it seemed all was well, until I had to doa cold boot and got "error on page" when I tried to log in. I had to use the old patcher to get back into the game but each time I logged out, it would default to the new patcher. So, I decided to try something and delete the Launcher filefolder in my Horizon's directory along with the caspol.bat, AEPatcher.dll, and SilentPatcher.exe which were in my Horizon's root in addition to the Launcher filefolder. After logging in again with the new patcher I got curious and checked my Horizon's directory. The 3 above mentioned items were no longer in my Horizon's root. I'm not certain if this will help anyone try and figure out if it works for them or not, but since deleting those 3 files from my Horizon's root and letting the patcher do it's thing, I've had no further problems.

Hope this bit of info helps someone.

[imported_Leannae]

[H] Sunglasses Bessie!'sides, I wanted them to stand out [:P]

Anyway, to further add to my post, I had kept the original files (moved to a different directory) it appears the files that were in my Horizon's root were residue left over from previous attempts at the patcher, dated 3/15/05. So it's possible that when the rollback came it only deleted the file folder and not the items in the root which could be causing the conflict with inability to log in..

Just guessing

[refuse]

I really hope no one quits just because they cannot get in the game for a day or two. I know, I know, the "I'm quitting" comments are likely from people who were looking for a reason to go, but on their face they seem a vast overreaction.
-Levity Merrel

Levity, I think the problem stems from the lack of warning, and the general sense people have for Horizons.

Some people are waiting for that last straw.

Right now with the push to get people back in, this was probably the wrong time to try this. As people comming back, downloading game, then trying to get in, and sitting there and can't get in will give up at the first screen.

Also,
The 2 days, 3 days, 5 days how ever long it is, is time they are paying for.
I was upset during the merge/plot install when I couldn't play for 7 days. 1/4 the Month I paid for, I couldn't play. Why pay for something you can't use.

Even if you can't use it for 1 day, you paid for it. If it something on your end, then sure, you are responsible. If it is something on their end, "to bad, try deleting your world cache".

Alot of people are on the edge, and they are trying to get people back. 1-2 days of no access because of something silly could be enough to push people over. Not everyone comes to the forum, some just play the game. When they can't play, why should they play. We don't get a reimbursement for days we can't play, we don't even get an ingame "sorry" or even a sorry. We get pointed to the EULA that says they don't even assure the game will work.

So would it be silly for people to leave over this? Depends, if your cable TV didn't work for 3 days, they would credit you the time if you call them (I have).

And like you said, some people are looking for a reason to quit. That is silly.
Then again Tulga giving them a reason is silly too. :(

I have never had a problem with any of their updates (though I sometimes have to hit the button to play twice).

[Theolaerynn]

The ActiveX control is not there to transfer files or anything of that sort. The ACtiveX control is used to update the patcher exe itself. After that, the EXE file takes over.

Dennett is continuing to work on the patcher and we appreciate your patience in this matter. I encourage everyone who is having difficulties to open a ticket at support . istaria . com and the customer support team will assist you. They have been working hard to get many players online and playing.

- Amon

First, does it matter if the ActiveX control is there to transfer files or not, if the end result is the same? Can't patch unless you blow a gaping hole in your security, can't play if you don't patch, so effectively you are telling us that if we want to play we need to blow a hole in our already thin security.

I have followed Horizons from the very beggining, although I never liked the initial design. Once the design was changed to the current one, I was very enthusiastic to enter beta, to say the least. I got a couple of dozen friends to buy the game when it came out, and my wife and I stayed with you guys through the bankrupcy and the mass exodus. All the friends I got to buy the game cancelled their accounts long ago, and most of the friends I have made in game have left for EQ2 and WoW.

But it is incredibly bad moves like this patcher thing that promted my wife and I to finally cancel our accounts and move to EQ2 (and I *really* hate SoE!!). You guys have *got* to be the most misguided people I have ever known! You have a game that I believe has the best potential of anything out there, and certainly one that I love despite its many glaring flaws (mem leak, lack of content, unfinished, basically still beta).

It really seems like you guys care, it seems like you guys really put your heart into it. But you seem to be SO out of touch with your customers! You keep doing stuff to poke us, and you do precious little to make us feel welcome and increase enjoyment of the game, comparitively speaking.

How can you expect to be succesful when all you do is drive customers away? I have come back because I love the game, but you are just pushing me away again. My wife wont even consider coming back, and all of my friends laugh whenever I mention Horizons. Most of us are software developers, by the way, and are more forgiving than most in some ways.

Please, get someone who is in touch with the customers and the game to help you guys prioritize your efforts and time. For instance, it wont matter to new customers if there is a nifty new patcher if the game has gone under because you keep driving away current customers.

Potentially great game, positively poor design management. Place your bets on which one will win.

[evilkarl]

Ok I was wrong. I logged on, couldn't get it to work (got the "patcher didn't load screen). Couldn't get to the screen that says "click here for old patcher" All I could get was the error screen. Logged off, changed account to admin. Logged back on. Had to REDOWNLOAD patcher, even though I already had it downloaded via my main administaror account (stupid win XP). Game launched normally using new patcher. I logged back off, changed account to non-admin. Logged back on, couldn't play. Couldn't get to old patcher without manually entering the URL. Stupid.


K I was just looking at this again. The stupid IE Active X redownloads the patcher EVERYTIME you log on to the game. Is this just me or is it supposed to do that? This is what caused the problem above.

For crying out loud just offer the patcher as a manual download with in a selfextracting exe file that deletes all of the old patcher as well. That has to be the easiest way to do this.

Actually once the patcher is installed you don't need to the website to play your last used char. You can run Launcher/SilentPatcher.exe (I think) and it will launch the patcher with the last char you chose to play the game as and does so as a non admin user.

Requiring the download of the active x control every time someone trys to play is BAD! because it means people can't switch chars without being logged in as an admin.

[evilkarl]

Did you have the .args file in the launcher dir as well as a .opts i think it looks for.

[imported_Leannae]

I had a few more problems today with it, error on page coming up after a reboot, then I did something radical and checked my windows updates. It seems on Feb 8th, 2005 there was a security patch for Net Framework 1.1 (KB886903) After installing the security patch, and rebooting 5 times (just to make sure) My problems seem to have been corrected.

Guess that will teach me to update my windows security a bit more often [:$]

[cauri_order]

I fixed my problem. Everybody remembe when they had their DNS issues? well it seems if you have your shortcut set to 68.142.64.212.

Try changing your shortcut to https://horizons.istaria.com. Worked for me, might as well give it a try.

[Stranyr]

I have been playing with the new patcher with Windows XP SP2 Media Center.

I have IE set to Not run anything unsafe, or anything that doesn't have authenticode, and to ask me before doing anything that even remotely looks like it might be active X or scripting (or just about anything else but the rest doesn't matter for this discussion) I have Windows Firewall On. I don't have https://horizons.istaria.com as a trusted site, I am logged in as an administrator and the patcher works for me, the only pain in the ****** is that it redownloads itself every time I log in.

As to those saying that it's a HUGE SECURITY RISK to set up a custom profile for https://horizons.istaria.com under trusted sites it's NOT! If you follow the instuctions correctly you are only allowing that ONE domain(actaully onlypart of that domain, not even thewhole of it hoizons.istaria.com)to have those privilages, not the entire world.

I personally don't recomend doing it unless you have no other choise as it is an additional security risk but it's not the end of the world, it is a small hole which would be terrably difficult to take advantage of. (unless you don't keep your computer protected with virus/spyware scanners and then what are you worried about the world already has access to you :) )

[Goibhnie]

I have yet to be able to log in with the new patcher. I had the same issue when it was first being tested. I get Error ID 66, password/username incorrect, which it isn't. I submitted a ticket and was given a list of symptoms that could cause an error, none matched. The follow up was a note saying that they've switched back to the old patcher, which I've never had an issue with. I've tinkered with my settings, deleted/redeleted files here and there where people have indicated that it worked for them. The one thing I haven't done is insure that the ports are open that they listed. One reason is don't really know how to set that up. Two, why do we need to set something up special, seems that if it worked and everything really was up to snuff on certificates and so on it shouldn't be an issue at all... But, I'm not a coder/programmer or for that matter extremely computer literate so I'll just keep trying til something works or my hard drive shoots bolts of electricity out some port and calls it quits.
Anyhow if anyone has any ideas on this issue please let me know, also if someone could maybe do a step-by-step picture on how to open ports with Norton Firewall please do, that is the last thing I have yet to try.
Thanks

[Theolaerynn]

I have been playing with the new patcher with Windows XP SP2 Media Center.

I have IE set to Not run anything unsafe, or anything that doesn't have authenticode, and to ask me before doing anything that even remotely looks like it might be active X or scripting (or just about anything else but the rest doesn't matter for this discussion) I have Windows Firewall On. I don't have https://horizons.istaria.com as a trusted site, I am logged in as an administrator and the patcher works for me, the only pain in the ****** is that it redownloads itself every time I log in.

As to those saying that it's a HUGE SECURITY RISK to set up a custom profile for https://horizons.istaria.com under trusted sites it's NOT! If you follow the instuctions correctly you are only allowing that ONE domain(actaully onlypart of that domain, not even thewhole of it hoizons.istaria.com)to have those privilages, not the entire world.

I personally don't recomend doing it unless you have no other choise as it is an additional security risk but it's not the end of the world, it is a small hole which would be terrably difficult to take advantage of. (unless you don't keep your computer protected with virus/spyware scanners and then what are you worried about the world already has access to you [img]/Web/emoticons/emotion-1.gif[/img] )

I posted an interesting note for ya concerning security in this thread:
http://community.istaria.com/Web/ShowPost.aspx?PageIndex=2&PostID=56107#56107

[Aamer Khan]

No need to stir up paranoia. Where as it's true the internet can be a very nasty place, just allowing 1 site to be trusted does not open you up to anything. Almost all exploits require you to browse to a malicious page, or freely allow access to a malicious page.

I'm going to assume that TG is not evil, waiting to take my machine over. Make sure your browser is set to use passive ftp, don't open any ports on your router/firewall, and allow the control to be accepted by windows and you should be fine.

There is NO way that TG can forsee every possible way a person could setup there connection to the internet, nor all the various ways it can get hosed. Asking for DETAILED rundowns of anyone specific problem is the only way to provide solutions. Let's all take a deep breath, clearly explain how we are set up, and work through the problems.

I'm more than willing to help anyone with this. I figured out my problem and it was a real stumper. It had nothing to do with TG, but was a firewall script error on my side. Before you give up or quit, please send me a pm and let me see what I can do to help.

[Theolaerynn]

No need to stir up paranoia. Where as it's true the internet can be a very nasty place, just allowing 1 site to be trusted does not open you up to anything. Almost all exploits require you to browse to a malicious page, or freely allow access to a malicious page.

I'm going to assume that TG is not evil, waiting to take my machine over. Make sure your browser is set to use passive ftp, don't open any ports on your router/firewall, and allow the control to be accepted by windows and you should be fine.

I don't think it is a matter of stirring up paranoia, but rather a matter of taking informed risks rather than blind ones. I know people that assume that a given company has the knowledge, time, and resources to check into security risks and that any requested security changes are considered to be generally safe. This is not so, and very few companies I have had experience with have had the resources and desire to ensure their clients safety.

I too believe that AE/TG is not evil, and that they do care about their clients. I do not believe they have the knowledge or the resources to adequately research vulnerabilities they are enabling. It is not a matter of being malicious.

If you think that having 1 site on the Trusted List is not a security risk, I think you are not stopping to think about things we see every day, or perhaps you do not follow security trends.

Take a look at DOS attacks, you hear about those every day, right? How do they happen? An attacker gets ahold of another machine and uses it to flood a given IP. In order for this to be effective the attacker usually has to gain access to a number of machines to get enough throughput to flood the target pipe. This is a common occurance. Now, read that a little more carefully and you will see that it has to do with attackers assuming control of another machine, and AE/TG machines are doubtfully bullet proof. Do I think it will happen, no, not at all. Do I think it is possible? Absolutely. Is that a risk? Yes, although very low, as I stated in my other note. It just isn't worth the effort, there are too few subscribers to make it worth it. Depending upon AE/TGs security, it might never be worth it. But it is a risk.

If adding sites to your trusted list is like dropping the soap in a prison shower, opening ports in your firewall is like bending over to get it.