Official ARoP Starting Requirement Discussion Thread

[Manga]

Hey Gang,

Please discuss the requirements here, so that we may have one focused thread on the topic.

*UPDATED*

Please note that these are the Starting Requirements...

[Astroth]

Geez! That means we need every, or almost every dragon quest done! >_> As lnog as we get a ncie reward, I'm all for it! :-P :) Also it says we need a minimum of 90 levels in adventurer, no crafting for those people who have taken Helian and only craft? :-\ Thanks for giving us the reqs!

[Jaraiden]

Hey Gang,

Please discuss the requirements here, so that we may have one focused thread on the topic.

Let's start first with TulgAE's current view of requirements based on the MANY discussions made on this board and DB's own statement in July 2004.

[Dragoniade]

A real disappointment and a joke for the dedication a dragon is supposed to require.

100 days since creation. Way too low. How many sitting duck, I mean dragons, have been created just in case? 200 should have been the bare minimum.

And where are the crafting requirements? What does that mean? Dragon crafter: The most useless crafting class. Only one of the 2 classes a dragon can /is obliged to take, and you never see it used anywhere. A dragon don't need to level crafting pass 30. Just do adventure and you'll be fine. Be lazy. This is clearly an insult for those who are dedicated to their dragon and levelled both. There better be a quest or two that ask for 800-900 scalecraft points.

Really, I'm disappointed. This is just to tell how crafting are overlooked and how dragons are just not taken seriously.

[Jael]

the reqs mostly look good, but we are talking about becoming the highest form a dragon can be....completing all the quests is a good req, but no one under level 100 should be able to start the Rite for ancient, and 100 hours since creation is just insulting to the TRULY ancient dragons already among us. Those of us who have been around for a long time, been through leaking hoard, weak fighting skills, no quest for adult. We waited through all these things, we have learned the ways of playing a dragon in every form there has been.

[Jaraiden]

The Ancient Rite of Passage was intended to test the strength and courage, wisdom and insight of Drulkar's followers, allowing them to achieve the status of ancient dragon. From each of the four corners of Istaria, atop the heighest mountain ranges, Drulkar communed with the great winds and beheld the peace that once was. He knew Istaria better, perhaps, than the goddess who gave her name to it. He knew its darkest dangers, and most peaceful meadows, its deepest depths, and most soaring heights. Through the Rite of Passage, those who wished to gain his favor would follow in his footsteps, discovering these things both in the world around them, and deep within themselves. [img]/images/temp/rota1.jpg[/img]

As the years passed, however, fewer and fewer dragons choose to brave the trials of this Rite. The lesser races began to appear, and Drulkar became annoyed at the declining power of his children. Wrapped up in their own petty squabbles, his children came to him less and less for guidance. At last, he left the realm of the Prime, unwilling to watch his people lose their rulership over Istaria. At the occurrence of the Great Schizm, Drulkar ended the rite in disgust, sealing himself away in isolation for many long years. [img]/images/temp/rota2.jpg[/img]

Though Drulkar has not returned to the prime, the seal which separated him from his people has broken at his command. Drulkar has charged the Council to recreate the ancient ritual and commission a new breed of champions to stand at Istaria's hour of need. The face of Istaria had changed, and with it, so must the Rite. Yet in many ways a dragon attempting the Rite in the present age, will find it far more challenging, a grueling test indeed. [img]/images/temp/rota3.jpg[/img]

The Council is very specific about who may attempt the Ancient Rite of Passage, and will allow only those who have a legitimate chance at success. A dragon's age, maturity, and knowledge are all measured and evaluated before the Council will permit the Rite to begin.



[img]/images/temp/rota4.jpg[/img]

In the Council's wisdom, they have set the following standards? 100 days since the Dragon's creation must pass. Achieved a minimum of 90 levels as a Dragon Adventurer Completion of the Quest: Become a True Helian or True Lunus Completion of the Quest: Learn to Change your Form

[And completing Expert tasks and other currently available tasks that cap at IV to VII]

Those are tasks Manga, the Council should know the difference between "Kill X of Y" tasks and more involved quests.

I see the above do not reflect playerbase discussion, so why even make an Official adult to Ancient RoP Starting Requirement Discussion Thread. TulgAE clearly doesn't modify their thoughts.

And DB was flat out being malicious with his "No current adult dragon qualifies . . ." blurb in July 2004. You need to have that 230 day since creation, unless his . . . . statement was something related toDrulkar's absence, which corresponded to lack of content that should have been included by February 2004. Sort of a perverted twisting of roleplay justification for lack ofplanning.

Please re-evaluate a Dragon's "age, maturity, and knowledge." 100 days is not enough. Shouldn't Breath of Fire III and alternate breath weapon be there? Are not finishing the Crafting tasks a part of knowledge? Doesn't the Council realize another Statue of your Adult Self and Phylactery will need to be crafted (or does ahatchling go from birth to Granite statue to some other mechanism of change of shape?).

[Theolaerynn]

100 Days since Adult would have made much more sense. As it stands right now we are going to have Level 1 Hatchlings that make Ancient in a week, once the ARoP quest is fully done. That is pretty lame.

It only takes a couple of days to power level a hatchling to 90 if you have the resources available, and a day to do RoP. That is bad enough in and of itself, a 3 or 4 day old Adult Dragon, but if the hatchling was a sleeper for 100 days then now they can be pretty much Instant Ancient. That sucks large.

[Varangaard]

Yeah, yeah, we've seen this requirement proposal before and a large percentage of those discussing it rejected it (myself included). Since the thread still exists, I will not repeat myself here. I'll only add that the kill task requirements are meaningless as a lvl 90 dragon - the current ARoP minimum - will run through them in ~1day.

[Jaraiden]

The Ancient Rite of Passage was intended to test the strength and courage, wisdom and insight of Drulkar's followers, allowing them to achieve the status of ancient dragon.

At least the adult to Ancient RoP will be more focused on a dragon's skills, vs. the hatchling to adult RoP that a hatchling can be powered through (due to game mechanics). How that must disgust Drulkar, knowing his followers could do so little to become adult.

I hope he views the land and recognizes that, and soon as those young adults will present themselves before the Council.

[Pharcellus]

In a word... blah.

Now, for the REAL question. Some of those "quests" are new quests for the same old abilities. Will the old quests for the old abilities still count? IE, I didn't kill Tashka Lusa for Primal Mastery VII, but something else instead.

Quests completed is not a bad idea, but there should have been some more meaty requirements. I just hope the ARoP is really hard, like it has been touted to be. If people breeze through it, it will be a major disappointment.

Update: checked my quests.. looks like the quests just had their names changed, as I apparently killed Tashka Lusa to get Primal Mastery VII, even though I killed something else. Oh well.

[imported_Silowyi]

I agree that Breath of Fire III should be required, other than that I don't have any real problem with this. While 100 days may seem like a short time, I reached level 100/100 in (roughly) 120-130 days. I don't recall exactly. My point is, it's bad for the players to have someone limited by an arbitrary number. And as much as I would prefer only true dragons making Ancient, I can't say I really mind if a biped's alt is elligible or not. It doesn't affect me, except possibly more competition for class specific equipment/forms... I dunno, looks like a lot of effort has to go into playing the game either way.

[Vlisson]

my point of view:

to start the AROP:
have to be at least 6 month an adult one
finished ALL dragon quests
be LVL 100/100 (hey you want to become a true Master of your kind? a child from your god? lower lvl requirements would be a joke, if we would have lvl cap lifted for dragons i would say 120/100 for lunus and 100/120 for helian)
20.000.000 Hort

to finish the AROP:
100 days ingame time
doing 10.000.000 Ancient Hord (after started AROP, with a new ancient item, craftable by dragons only, maybe on an dragon only island)

[Guaran]

I think all quests done is a good start.

100 days since adulthood, or 365 days since created, seem to make actual sense, since "Ancient" implys aged character. Maybe just add 100 days in game time to these requirements? ( or 90 or something) That would truely make ancient a somewhat rare ( for now) attribute.

Don't make it too eliteist, but 100 days since creation is kinda low. We are talking "ancient" here

However, someone who gets thru all the dragon quests will at least have put some effort in. I'm not sure that sleeper dragons necessarily have any reason not to be eligible... ( realistically we are talking about something different to do,for players who might play bipeds for now.) Maybe up the days since created. If someone gives a years worth of subscription money, thats probably good enough for all intents and purposes. As far as the "game" goes, they basically are "ancient". So if they have a low level dragon they finally want to play, so be it.

Adding in game time can get rid of the PL worries. Although like I said I honestly can't say that someone who has played the game for better part of a year in whatever form, should not have a chance to experience this content. This gives them a reason to pull those draggies out and play them, and maybe even have fun. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Add some days in game as a req. say 50. not a horrible number at all. But would require them to play thier dragon for awhile. Really not too much to ask if ancient will have a very worthwhile reward.

If ancients' bonus resembles the ROP bonus, req's are fine as they are.

[Pharcellus]

No, it theoretically doesn't affect me going forward, but that assumes that the past is completely ignored. Maybe the ARoP is not about rewarding loyalty and perseverence of Dragon players who "toughed it out", playing intently since release day. Maybe something else will be about that; I don't know.

All I DO know is that I have less reward and more "suck" for the same effort and MONEY expended over the last 15 months. Continuing to be reminded of that fact by rubbing salt in an open wound does little to help it heal.

[Tympest]

I am.... extremely disappointed to say the least.

Why do you people at AE/Tulga bother asking our opinion when you don't really care about it? :P This question has already been asked of us and our thoughts completely ignored. If you really want our opinion try reading these threads:

http://community.istaria.com/Web/Sho...x?PostID=34548
http://community.istaria.com/Web/Sho...x?PostID=35928

[Arkhanis]

I'm just happy that there isn't a crafting requirement =)
I greatly disliked that aspect of it when RoP first went live, leaving me the adventurerscrabbling in slatewhilst my other friends steamed on ahead, and I'm glad it seems not to be the case this time. Although, it's a shame there is no alternative for those who feel the same wayabout adventuring, as I do their crafting *g* At least I can lay off Aug mines a bit now at 66, hehe.

As for the rest, I'd have to agree with 100 days since RoP completion and a few more questsreally.. though in all honesty someone PL-ing a new character through the RoPand all thatwould probably only add aweek if thaton to the total at most.

[Cobal]

Please, pretty please with sugar on top.
Dont turn Arop into a joke with these weak requirements.
Requirements were discussed extensively by us all, take into consideration what we want from Arop.
100 days since creation is a joke.

[Uro]

If I migth just say this then the title of the thread is: "Official ARoP Starting Requirement Discussion Thread"

It's what's required to start the quest, not finish it.

The fact that there isn't a craft lvl in the requirement doesn't have tomean you won't have to be of a certain crafting lvl to make stuff for the quest, just like for ROP with the claws, statue, scale and so on. Also when it came to the ROP it was a lot tougher than the start req's let you to beleive, hopefully it will be the same case here.

Anyway I remember the exact same discussion for when ROP was comming out, old dragons wanted higher req's, and in the end that didn't happen. I must say that I agree with most that has been said here, I also think that Ancients shouldn't be reachable for a powerlvl'ed alt, and I'm not happy with the 100 days since creation.I just don't think we can for sure already assume it's as bad as some people say it is.

So with the assumption that req's to end the quest will be higher than start req's, then I don't think the start req's are all that bad.

My days of blindly trusting in whatever they come up with is long gone, but not really anything I can do about it. So I would say just take a deep breath, stand back, and try to relax a bit.

[Varangaard]

I fully expect there to be items to be crafted on ARoP; they'll probably be tier IV, V, or both. In fact ARoP was one of the three reasons I worked my craft up to 100. Removal of a hard craft level requirement does not affect anything. It merely means that instead of meeting a hard level limit, you need have high enough a combination of levels, buffs and crafting scales to meet the minimum skill requirements to create some item(s).

[Deth]

Jaraiden I would assume that Drulkar will transform us so there will be no need for a statue. That still does not make the fact that some of us following the Helian path assumed that crafting would be a much needed part of our AROP because we feel we are scholars and do enjoy the crafting side of the game. It would have been nice way back when for them to say "Hey we know most people hate crafting and are going to go more heavily in adventure so work that up also." But I am close with my adventure side so by the time it is out I will have reached the required level. I too wish the requirements were a little more, but understand from their point of view. Dragons are the greatest draw of the game and having people wait 100 days to get a Ancient dragon may turn them away. Something longer would turn more people away and they do not need that.

On a side note. I assume this means our ability quest are completed level wise and that they may extend them too 100 for ancients only? would it make a adult that over powered to have all our abilities going to 100? Or is this going to be a bone for ancients so they have something to do once you complete it and reach one 100 and have to go back to do all the rest of the quest up too 100?