Super Hatchling

[Ahkaskar]

My hatchling, whom I've never given all that much attention to until recently, has always had a hoarde somewhat high for his level. Recently though, he's been getting free stuff from other dragons here and there, or sometimes finding some pretty decent stuff on his own.

Today topped 'em all.

http://www.nothingmachine.com/resour...s%202005-04-05 21-31-06-23.jpg(171 KB)

Someone actually gave this stuff to me, while I was out running around. They were pretty high in level, which would explain a thing or two. Big thanks to them, though. You know who you are.

[dracinfir]

*drools* i wish i was you [;)]

[Jaraiden]

Ahh, the concept of earning . . . . the future looks busy for you if such a trade was equitable.

But your post brings up an old topic . . . . powerhoarding. Dragons able to benefit from items out of their tier. However, TulgAE allows it, so good for you and your fortunate timing.

[oluviel]

i hope they make hoard items no drop lol

[Guaran]

A nice start young hatchling, but thats a drop in the bucket.

Ocassional generous gifts such as this keep the bipeds in our favor. We have not forgotten the transgressions of thier fathers... nor do we hold them responsible for the sins of thier fathers.... But we watch them carefully.

We will reclaim our place as leaders of men

[Ahkaskar]

It's something I'd have to do eventually. Guaran is right - it's a drop in the bucket. It isn't really powerhoarding either, as he gets about zero benefit over what he already had. At the moment, it's funny to see and that's what I posted it for.

[oluviel]

If they made them "No Drop" then they would be 100% useless to bipeds. Currently, they can be given to dragon friends, or used to barter for other things, or sell on consigners.

That was my point lol. Nothing could stop bipeds from bringing dragon friends with them and just looting,but hoarding should be more personal. At least in that case they would beactive in getting the hoard items to some degree.

Now to solve the problem of being useless to bipeds i think they could give the hoard items a good price atpawnbrokers or something. At least enoughcoin so bipeds would hold onto the hoard items to sell them when they returned to town.

Or they could be traded with a specific npc for something of value, but not coin so it wouldn't contribute to inflation.

Just my view, i don't think it's right for hatchlings to effortlessly gain so much hoard. It trivializes hoarding way too much.

[Gliding Frost]

Ahh so give the hoard loot a price so bipeds can gouge it even more when they try to sell it to hatchlings? Sounds like a great idea, NOT.

Realistically it feels like these drops are how hoard was meant to be. To me it means I can hunt or craft as I feel like it versus "oh, need to craft now, hoard is down to 3 mill and I really need to have it at 7 mill...off to Dralk I go!"

[imported_Twelvebagger]

Interesting thread.

I have always given away my hoard, usually to any dragon that is friendly :) (Gliding has gotten a few trinkets here and there).....


As far as having value to bipeds however, I think it really is a good trading peice, considering we have virtually no use for it otherwise. I hit a point a few days ago where I had about 50 hoard items and was over my item capacity.. then I thought, why not trade these for trophies, since I need them, and a higher level dragon (level>trophy level) can only use his or her trophies to barter.

In most cases, when I see something that's a bit "off", like being able to load a low level dragon with tons of hoard, I would call it something that needs to be addressed.

In this case, I say leave it be and let them have it.. they've been getting theshaft for overa year now, it's about time they get SOMETHING.

[Ahkaskar]

I can't possibly imagine this is something that happens every day to every hatchling. The guy could've tried to charge me for it, but he didn't. (I wouldn't have bought it in that case) At the same time, I know of adult dragons that aren't anywhere near their suggested hoarde, and in some cases are down by more than the amount that I gained. I suppose I'm not the best person to be speaking, but unless this is commonplace, this isn't a problem.

Really, I'll still need to work on hoarde as I go. I generally acquire experience levels faster than I do hoarde levels. This is just an oddity - an extreme oddity, but a simple oddity nontheless. Something you should pay attention to all the statistics for, rather than the one case.

So, once you see 5 or 10 hatchlings a week (exaggerating, of course) with 400k hoarde at level 20, then you need to worry. Until then, it's funny. Laugh.[:)]

[oluviel]

The thing is it will be happening much much more. In time the hoard item collection of bipeds gets bigger and bigger they have to get rid of them somehow.

I'm all for making it easier to gain hoard but not through passive means.

The hoard drops are wonderfull they allow us to actually use our abilities and not care so much about their cost. It doesn't mean that it should open up easy hoard gain for people who are not even putting effort into hoarding.

[oluviel]

Ahh so give the hoard loot a price so bipeds can gouge it even more when they try to sell it to hatchlings? Sounds like a great idea, NOT.

Let me highlight what i said.
#1 hoard items are made no drop

#2 hoard item npcs are added to either give players something of value in return like formulas for a specific amount of hv or coin. I would be in favor of items and formulas. Maybe even random items and formulas.

say 90% usefull but easy to get(resources both finished and unrefined), 9% usefull(recharge cells formulas), and1% awesome(blighted equipment crystals ect).

On the flipside, dragons with useless formulas and itemscould trade them in for random hoard itemsrelative to thelevel of the item or formula.

So where did you get your response from my post? Seems to me that you jumped the gun, and youdidn't read my post. I added to the idea but it's the same idea, and nothing like your response.

[Ahkaskar]

Honestly, I do think I'd like to see something like that. I also play bipeds, and I think I could understand the idea with giving hoarde a value to bipeds. I think really, the value should be made "about" even. You don't want bipeds to start getting totally greedy, but I can agree with the idea that eventually, the "market" will get super-saturated with it and no use other than to just dump hoarde to whomever.

[cattoy]

Ahh so give the hoard loot a price so bipeds can gouge it even more when they try to sell it to hatchlings? Sounds like a great idea, NOT.

Realistically it feels like these drops are how hoard was meant to be. To me it means I can hunt or craft as I feel like it versus "oh, need to craft now, hoard is down to 3 mill and I really need to have it at 7 mill...off to Dralk I go!"

Who in their right minds are going to try to gouge hatchlings? They don't have any money, duh.

What should happen is that you should only get full value for stuff of your tier. Otherwise it's just too easy to drop some awesome hoardables on the nearest hatchling and completely devalue any effort they put into their own hoard. Why scratch and scrape for a few dozen HV here and there when some passerby might drop a few thousand on you if you ask them nicely?

[Goriax]

So a level 21 hatchling was given 355,000 hoard consisting of a nice variety of tier 5 hoardables (i.e. hoardables dropping off of tier 5 mobs). When he hoards them his total hoard will be 417,523.

A couple factoids:

Hoard limit at level 21 is 25,100 i.e., all the hoard he got past 25,100 does him no good. Some people don't seem to understand this.

IT

DOES

HIM

NO

GOOD

A hoard of 417,523 is a bit under the hoard limit for level 68 i.e., after that point he'll have to start collecting hoard if he wants to stay at his level's hoard limit. The person could just as easily given him some items he couldn't use until level 68. The effect would be the same.

Those represent some of the best hoardables he's likely to see at any level. He won't be collecting appreciably more hoard at higher levels.

The hoard limit at level 100 is 25,333,000. Once he gets to level 100 this is a tiny drop in the bucket.These are typical tier V hoardables,so if he's going to get to his level 100 limit it'll be off these same hoardables. It's going to take him awhile. He'll barely notice a gift this size.

I still can't see why people are upset. Unless he gets tohis 60sthat hoard is essentially wasted. Might as well have deleted it. Once he gets to higher levels, he'll want so much more hoard this is a tiny drop in the bucket. You might as well get upset over a level 100 giving a newbie 10 silver.

Oh yes, those hoardables would represent quite a few hours of hunting high level mobs. If that person had spent the same amount of time craftingscales (probably many biped craftable things would work too but I"m familiar with scales)and selling them, used the money to buy fireworks, and given those fireworks to that hatchling, the hoard value would be FAR more.

So this gift

1. Does the hatchling no good at his current level.
2. Is less then the hatchling could make on his own once he gets to a level where it DOES do him so good.
3. Is an insignificant drop in the bucket for what he'll eventually want.

Giving him this amount of hoard is very similar to giving him an item he won't be able to use until his 60s.

[oluviel]

So a level 21 hatchling was given 355,000 hoard consisting of a nice variety of tier 5 hoardables (i.e. hoardables dropping off of tier 5 mobs). When he hoards them his total hoard will be 417,523.

A couple factoids:

Hoard limit at level 21 is 25,100 i.e., all the hoard he got past 25,100 does him no good. Some people don't seem to understand this.

IT

DOES

HIM

NO

GOOD

A hoard of 417,523 is a bit under the hoard limit for level 68 i.e., after that point he'll have to start collecting hoard if he wants to stay at his level's hoard limit. The person could just as easily given him some items he couldn't use until level 68. The effect would be the same.

Those represent some of the best hoardables he's likely to see at any level. He won't be collecting appreciably more hoard at higher levels.

The hoard limit at level 100 is 25,333,000. Once he gets to level 100 this is a tiny drop in the bucket.These are typical tier V hoardables,so if he's going to get to his level 100 limit it'll be off these same hoardables. It's going to take him awhile. He'll barely notice a gift this size.

I still can't see why people are upset. Unless he gets tohis 60sthat hoard is essentially wasted. Might as well have deleted it. Once he gets to higher levels, he'll want so much more hoard this is a tiny drop in the bucket. You might as well get upset over a level 100 giving a newbie 10 silver.

Oh yes, those hoardables would represent quite a few hours of hunting high level mobs. If that person had spent the same amount of time craftingscales (probably many biped craftable things would work too but I"m familiar with scales)and selling them, used the money to buy fireworks, and given those fireworks to that hatchling, the hoard value would be FAR more.

So this gift

1. Does the hatchling no good at his current level.
2. Is less then the hatchling could make on his own once he gets to a level where it DOES do him so good.
3. Is an insignificant drop in the bucket for what he'll eventually want.

Giving him this amount of hoard is very similar to giving him an item he won't be able to use until his 60s.

Something every single dragon knows. It doesn't fix or justify the problem.

[Dragoniade]

So a level 21 hatchling was given 355,000 hoard consisting of a nice variety of tier 5 hoardables (i.e. hoardables dropping off of tier 5 mobs). When he hoards them his total hoard will be 417,523.

A couple factoids:

Hoard limit at level 21 is 25,100 i.e., all the hoard he got past 25,100 does him no good. Some people don't seem to understand this.

IT

DOES

HIM

NO

GOOD

A hoard of 417,523 is a bit under the hoard limit for level 68 i.e., after that point he'll have to start collecting hoard if he wants to stay at his level's hoard limit. The person could just as easily given him some items he couldn't use until level 68. The effect would be the same.

Those represent some of the best hoardables he's likely to see at any level. He won't be collecting appreciably more hoard at higher levels.

The hoard limit at level 100 is 25,333,000. Once he gets to level 100 this is a tiny drop in the bucket.These are typical tier V hoardables,so if he's going to get to his level 100 limit it'll be off these same hoardables. It's going to take him awhile. He'll barely notice a gift this size.

I still can't see why people are upset. Unless he gets tohis 60sthat hoard is essentially wasted. Might as well have deleted it. Once he gets to higher levels, he'll want so much more hoard this is a tiny drop in the bucket. You might as well get upset over a level 100 giving a newbie 10 silver.

Oh yes, those hoardables would represent quite a few hours of hunting high level mobs. If that person had spent the same amount of time craftingscales (probably many biped craftable things would work too but I"m familiar with scales)and selling them, used the money to buy fireworks, and given those fireworks to that hatchling, the hoard value would be FAR more.

So this gift

1. Does the hatchling no good at his current level.
2. Is less then the hatchling could make on his own once he gets to a level where it DOES do him so good.
3. Is an insignificant drop in the bucket for what he'll eventually want.

Giving him this amount of hoard is very similar to giving him an item he won't be able to use until his 60s.

Hmm. Wrong. If you get OVER your limit, you won't be penalized. Sure, you won't get any armor bonus or increased breath damage. However, the extra doesn't magically dissapears. This mean that the hatchling won't need to go hoarding again until he's in the 60th. And lets not forget about Hoard abilities. Even hatchlings get to use Gold Rage and Silver Strike. Hoard over their level simply mean they don't have to worry about going below their level, and they can use their abilities all the way.

So it do does it good. Though I don't agree with hoard PL either. Personally, if an hatchling want hoard, it should work for it. It could be through cash or work. I used help 1 or 2 hatchling with a load of obsidian scales to help themstarted (about 50k hoard). But they would have to get themselve a cargo disk and spend the hour with me as a mule.

[Ahkaskar]

I was already over my level with hoarde. 417k hoarde is around level 41-ish anyway, but I was at around 60k, with a good chunk of my own work. (I was way over the cap already, dontcha know) I rarely use hoarde as it is (read: never), so in this case... no. No good. It'd be the same if I held on to it, or they gave it to me further down the line.

Besides, this isn't like you're trying to teach hoarde value to some "young player". My dragon has been around quite a long time - it's just that now, things have become feasible for me to sit down and play as him for the first time in... ever. Making me earn it isn't going to make me respect it any more than I already do, anyway. Not that I condone power leveling... but in this case, power hoarding doesn't "do" much of anything.

[Goriax]

.Hmm. Wrong. If you get OVER your limit, you won't be penalized. Sure, you won't get any armor bonus or increased breath damage. However, the extra doesn't magically dissapears. This mean that the hatchling won't need to go hoarding again until he's in the 60th. And lets not forget about Hoard abilities. Even hatchlings get to use Gold Rage and Silver Strike. Hoard over their level simply mean they don't have to worry about going below their level, and they can use their abilities all the way.

So it do does it good. Though I don't agree with hoard PL either. Personally, if an hatchling want hoard, it should work for it. It could be through cash or work. I used help 1 or 2 hatchling with a load of obsidian scales to help themstarted (about 50k hoard). But they would have to get themselve a cargo disk and spend the hour with me as a mule.

Hmmm.. YOU'RE wrong.

I had to do some digging, and couldn't get some details, but I can give you the general picture.

1. Hatchlings don't get gold shield. So he can't use it no matter how much hoard he has.

2. The gold rage which a level 20 hatchling has access to is FAR less awesome then the one a level 100 dragon has access to. It's also FAR less expensive. It's hard to imagine a hatchling using 400,000 hoard on gold rage. Hehe, it's difficult for an ADULT to use 400,000 on gold rage. Maybe another dragon can dig out the price for gold rage II, but it'll be FAR less then the 640 for gold rage VII which high level dragons use.

3. Couldn't find stats on silver strike II, but silver strike I costs a great big 5 hoard points. Never going to come close to needing anything like that amount of hoard to fuel silver strike. Even the highest level silver strike is no biggy and my level 100 dragon uses it freely.

You reiterated the thing about him not needing to collect hoard until 60 and that's true. I said the same thing. So what? He was twinked hoard so he won't have to collect it himself. Has a biped ever been twinked equipment and spells so he doesn't have to make or buythem himself? It's the same thing. A level 20 biped could easily be giveneverything he'll need through level 60. If you're going to say that dragons shouldn't be given hoard, then to be consistent you should demand that bipeds have to either make or buy (at fair price) all their equipment and spells.

Perhaps a hatchling can illuminate as on the price of the gold rage and silver strike a level 20 has access to, I couldn't find anything on any web sites which were still up and as I said,my dragon is long past that level. But it's fairly cheap and it's VERY hard to imagine being able to actually use 400,000 hoard on them in any useful way.

[Foxfire]

I toohave a hoard tweaked super hatchling, so I don't know how rare it is. My L26 has about 800k hoard, most of that from more than a few months ago. I regularly transfer hoard items (or jewelry or bottle caps/sets)from my higher level biped. I also give them away to guildies just cause, no immediate return transaction.

I think the concept that you should only"make your own hoard" is a silly notion - that doesn't fit a typical rp concept at all. As used to be argued when hoard first was introduced, silly that you should be forced to go craft to build your "treasure pile" - if you're only reason is so you can go hunt again. You could argue you should have to "hunt your own hoard", I suppose.

But a stronger argument would be that a true dragon is a rapacious, greedy, treasure sucking omnivore that will take whatever you give from whatever sourceand squirrel it away to the delight of its miserly black heart. [6] Too much is not enough. Surfeit brings glee.

I don't feel guilty about it, I feel like I'm being the conniving voracious pig I'm supposed to be. If I can get/trick some silly biped or an old-time Wyrm to throw me some yummies, I'm all over it.