They've done it again! (Potential spoilers)

[Antonath]

From the Lunus ARoP walkthrough:

Lantenal tells you, 'As an ancient of the Lunus faction, your legacy lies in the magic of combat. Yes certainly in the past some of our finest healers have come from the Lunus line, primarily, however, the path of the Lunus is the path of domination. It is said that red or black gemstones often prove the greatest foci for combat magic, though the texts again speak in riddles as to the specific source you are to locate.

From the Helian ARoP walkthrough:

Lantenal tells you, 'As an ancient of the Helian faction, your legacy lies in the magic of healing and succor. Yes certainly in the past some of our fiercest warriors have come from the Helian line, primarily, however, the path of the Helian is the path of compassion. It is said that green gemstones often prove the greatest foci for healing magic, though the texts again speak in riddles as to the specific source you are to locate.

No, no no no no no NO! This better not mean what I think it does. Are there to be Lunus-only combat spells, and Helian-only healing spells? I would have thought they'd have learnt from the complaints over breath weapon being determined by faction. New abilities should not be determined by something some people decided a year ago. I do not want to have to make a new character, just so I can get access to the combat spells I've been wanting for my Helian Dragon since day one. Especially since it's always been AE / Tulga's line that Lunus = melee and Helian = caster. Heck, even the Ancient scales suggest this. Fortunately the quotes also seem to allow for learning the "other" magic, but I have this weird feeling those bits will be ignored when the final rewards are handed out...

Antonath

[Death-knell]

OK, take a few breaths and relax. We don't know the reward for becoming ancient yet. As is lunus scales are melee and helian scales are mage.

And it does say' "Yes certainly in the past some of our fiercest warriors have come from the Helian line, primarily, however, the path of the Helian is the path of compassion" Which means helians do have access to some combat, you don't become a fierce warrior by throwing a mean heal spell.

[Kaze]

what I like about this is the explaination (if evena crap one) of why the giant crystals in Dralk are red/black and the ones in Chiconis are greenish. Whats more interesting is that the downed crystals in Draak happen to be greenish coloured (hard to tell do to the blight effect) and that there isn't a red one in sight.

[Antonath]

OK, take a few breaths and relax. We don't know the reward for becoming ancient yet. As is lunus scales are melee and helian scales are mage.

And it does say' "Yes certainly in the past some of our fiercest warriors have come from the Helian line, primarily, however, the path of the Helian is the path of compassion" Which means helians do have access to some combat, you don't become a fierce warrior by throwing a mean heal spell.

I know, I know, I'm probably over-reacting. It's just that I've seen so many additions to the game that promised so much, and yet fell over on one key point. I'm hoping this isn't that point for the ARoP.

Antonath

[Cobal]

What bothers me is this:

Yes certainly in the past some of our finest healers have come from the Lunus line.

and

Yes certainly in the past some of our fiercest warriors have come from the Helian line,

Shouldnt that be vica versa?
Lunus be warriors and Helians be healers/mages.

[Khoal]

I'll chime in here with my worries over ARoP.

My character has been built up to be a combat caster, and so I chose the Helian path. From the Lunus description, it sounds as if I might have made a wrong decision. "Might have" is the key here, because I don't know. No one does, except TG. Only TG can say what abilities the Ancients will receive when they complete the ARoP...and that's unfortunate.

It would have been very nice if TG had posted an official breakdown of what new abilities the two factions receive after ARoP, so players can decide which path truly suits them best.

On the other hand, HZ is great for allowing people to develop their character as they see fit, so it might just be that we won't be locked into particular roles after Ancient.

I'm a bit anxious to see what will happen to my caster. Makes looking forward to being Ancient even more fun!

...suppose the role of dragon combat medic might be an interesting one, especially if you devote some time every week to working in the Starter Islands, acting as aerial medic/resser. Let the newbies (newbie dragons)know what awaits them if they stick with it.

[Pharcellus]

what I like about this is the explaination (if evena crap one) of why the giant crystals in Dralk are red/black and the ones in Chiconis are greenish. Whats more interesting is that the downed crystals in Draak happen to be greenish coloured (hard to tell do to the blight effect) and that there isn't a red one in sight.

The ones in Dralk are the same colors as in Chiconis, and not all of the ones in Chiconis are "greenish", as there is a solid red one there as well.

They LOOK the way they do in Dralk because of the red/orange lighting, which does not highlight the other colors, and just makes them look like different shades of red.

It is the same problem with the Dragon character creation area; if you don't pick shades of red/orange colors, what you end up with doesn't look quite the same in neutral lighting as it does in "volcanic region" lighting. Thus, the complaints and "do-overs" because people ended up with a color scheme they liked in the character creation area, but hated once they got in-game and saw what it looked like in the rest of the world.

The same issue applies to Draak. The colors are there, you just can't tell because of the atmospheric lighting. Try turning off the environment system and you will see the real colors.

As for the lore snippets, it still is part of the lore that, due to factional preferences, Helians are more adept at certain things than Lunus and vice-versa, because they are now distinct cultures that express those differences in the preferences of the elders, who teach the young. However, the gulf is not so wide between the cultures yet that one who chooses one philosophy cannot learn the teachings of the other; hence the references to exceptions.

We are magic-bound creatures. We are undoubtedly shaped by the very forces we shape ourselves, and by the ever-present forces in our chosen culture. Thus it is not difficult to presume that we will innately lean towards the advantages/disadvantages of on faction or the other. If that is truly the case, I wish the lore would support it better. As it is, it is nothing more than a package deal of various game mechanics which confuse and annoy people.

[Antonath]

What bothers me is this:

Yes certainly in the past some of our finest healers have come from the Lunus line.

and

Yes certainly in the past some of our fiercest warriors have come from the Helian line,

Shouldnt that be vica versa?
Lunus be warriors and Helians be healers/mages.

That's what's being said - there are exceptions, but that in general, Helians are healers and Lunus are warriors. Those two phrases are the parts stating that there are exceptions.

My character has been built up to be a combat caster, and so I chose the Helian path. From the Lunus description, it sounds as if I might have made a wrong decision. "Might have" is the key here, because I don't know. No one does, except TG. Only TG can say what abilities the Ancients will receive when they complete the ARoP...and that's unfortunate.

That's exactly my point [:S] That's why I'm worried.

Antonath

[Akhorishaan]

[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Cobal wrote:What bothers me is this:

Yes certainly in the past some of our finest healers have come from the Lunus line.

and

Yes certainly in the past some of our fiercest warriors have come from the Helian line,

Shouldnt that be vica versa?
Lunus be warriors and Helians be healers/mages.
That's what's being said - there are exceptions, but that in general, Helians are healers and Lunus are warriors. Those two phrases are the parts stating that there are exceptions.

[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Khoal wrote:My character has been built up to be a combat caster, and so I chose the Helian path. From the Lunus description, it sounds as if I might have made a wrong decision. "Might have" is the key here, because I don't know. No one does, except TG. Only TG can say what abilities the Ancients will receive when they complete the ARoP...and that's unfortunate.
That's exactly my point [img]/Web//emoticons/emotion-7.gif[/img] That's why I'm worried.

Antonath

"Doubtless, time and experience have shaped the way you view the world around you, and old choices once certain may seem ill-advised in hindsight."

[Fireclaw]

From the Lunus ARoP walkthrough:

Lantenal tells you, 'As an ancient of the Lunus faction, your legacy lies in the magic of combat. Yes certainly in the past some of our finest healers have come from the Lunus line, primarily, however, the path of the Lunus is the path of domination. It is said that red or black gemstones often prove the greatest foci for combat magic, though the texts again speak in riddles as to the specific source you are to locate.
From the Helian ARoP walkthrough:

Lantenal tells you, 'As an ancient of the Helian faction, your legacy lies in the magic of healing and succor. Yes certainly in the past some of our fiercest warriors have come from the Helian line, primarily, however, the path of the Helian is the path of compassion. It is said that green gemstones often prove the greatest foci for healing magic, though the texts again speak in riddles as to the specific source you are to locate.

No, no no no no no NO! This better not mean what I think it does. Are there to be Lunus-only combat spells, and Helian-only healing spells? I would have thought they'd have learnt from the complaints over breath weapon being determined by faction. New abilities should not be determined by something some people decided a year ago. I do not want to have to make a new character, just so I can get access to the combat spells I've been wanting for my Helian Dragon since day one. Especially since it's always been AE / Tulga's line that Lunus = melee and Helian = caster. Heck, even the Ancient scales suggest this. Fortunately the quotes also seem to allow for learning the "other" magic, but I have this weird feeling those bits will be ignored when the final rewards are handed out...

Antonath

Grr. I agree. We should not be forced into playing a specific playstyle based on a decision we made over a year ago at a time when it was impossible to make an informed decision because the content wasn't out. If this comes to pass all us lunus dragons could be complete gimps compared to helians because helians might not have a dragon's biggest weakness: lack of effective repeatable healing.

[Goriax]

I wouldn't get too worried if I were you. The actual scales are strictly melee (Lunus) vs casting (Helian). All previous lore was the same. Most likely it was just some unfortunate choices of words by the person writing the dialog.

I still think that the choice should be that if you prefer using spells over melee you want Helian, if the reverse you want Lunus. That's been the lore ever since they announced the two factions months before beta started.

However, I wouldn't be surprised that -- if ancients get true cleric type spells -- Helians will have the inside track on them. Doesn't mean that's all they'll be able to do though. I do hope that if that's the case they'll give the Lunus something to compensate but I'm not going to worry about that either at this point.

So just calm down.

[kengar]

As a Helian, I would be bothered if only Helian dragons got Rez. I don't mind if Helian dragons get a better rez than the one Lunus get. At the same time, I don't want to be in the position of being denied a nifty combat ability as useful as rez just because I'm Helian. I don't expect everything Lunus get, but I don't want to see the entire Ancient RoP reward split down the lines of "Lunus get buffed melee, Helian get buffed casting."

I do agree that it's too early to get upset over this. Express concern, fine, that's done, Tulga knows how we feel.

[Goriax]

So far for the most part it's just been a matter of degree. Helians get gold rage and gold shield, and I'll bet that Lunians will also get the casting hoard abilities. But since helian stats will tend to be higher for casting and lunians higher for melee they might do better in their respective areas, but they'll probably be able to do ok in the opposite area.

[Britt Tigahare]

Huh? Helians aren't the only ones that get those, as Lunus can have them too. You should automatically get Gold Shield when you become an adult, for both factions. As far as Gold Rage goes, there's no rules saying thatLunus dragonscan't go to Chiconis and get the quests for it.

Am I just confused on what you are saying or do you really think Lunus are not allowed to have these two abilities?

[imported_Silowyi]

Actually you were supposed to be given a choice between the specialization of your Helian or Lunus scales. Unfortunately that didn't happen.