Update on Blight today

[Theolaerynn]

I see a few folks saying that Power Leveling is ruining the game, and at least one comment about it being cheating, and yet I have not seen anyone say why. Personally, I am not interested in being PL'd, but I have yet to be affected by anyone else doing it.

So how exactly is this affecting you, and why do you feel this is such a problem? And how does this change effect the perceived problem?

[Death-knell]

I see a few folks saying that Power Leveling is ruining the game, and at least one comment about it being cheating, and yet I have not seen anyone say why. Personally, I am not interested in being PL'd, but I have yet to be affected by anyone else doing it.

So how exactly is this affecting you, and why do you feel this is such a problem? And how does this change effect the perceived problem?

Something doesn't have to affect you for it to be wrong. in the metro area I live in a kid was killed for borrowing a lawn mower. It had no affect on me, but I still object to it happening.

[Senkeleron Fell]

The way I see it, people who want to be powerleveled don't stay long in any game. Why should they, they have reached the top, bypassing all the lower level content, and now at the top there isn't much content. So if they powerlevel in 20 days, spend 10 days bored because there is no content at the top, then quit, they have used their free month and they haven't really put any money into the game as subscribers. So the argument that they are bringing in money just doesn't hold up. The longer they take to hit the top, the more money Tulga makes. So allowing quick powerleveling does not help the game at all.

[Dangit NotAChance]

Before the necroflies were changed, you would see level 15s there with rating 120s being leveled. The rating 120 still received exp. So under this change the rating 15 will still receive exp. And be leveled just as easily. This change doesnt stop that. The only thing this change does is stop those who were groupped with a high rating person and mass slaughtering lower level monsters and the low rating person still getting exp.

An example of what this stops.

Player A is rating 100, grouped with player B who is rating 10, Player A takes Player B to the desert outside Tazoon and mass kills wolves. Player B still got exp and go leveled. Player A received no exp.


Example of what this doesnt stop.

Player A is rating 100, Player B is rating 20, they go to kill Tempest orges, both get exp. Player B is still powerleveled.


The only way Tulga is going to stop powerleveling is to put in level restrictions on who can join a group and level restrictions on who gets exp. if a level 10 is in a group and the group is fighting rating 110 monster then the level 10 gets no exp.

Of course that would kill grouping in HZ and ruin it for a lot of people.


Personally I say if people want to power level then let them. but protections need to be in place to prevent farming and ruining of the economy. The problem comes in when those that are power leveled complain about content and the devs listen to them and start catering to them and forget the lower rating people.

[Tryagain]

If people are playing and having fun, they will not be worrying about a "grind". The only real grind was wolf/wraith quests, and craft leveling. Now there are monsters up to tier 7 (we could use more tier 7 monsters). Some sort of adjustment is needed and I daresay 90% of the player population will agree.

And yes, please add more fun stuff to do.

yes this isnt about power leveling. its about making the current adventure system mean something and to MASK the grind. Cause with any game there is a grind. The difference is thatr a grind is no fun. When you have plenty to do and plenty of content to work with its no longer a grind. Horizons is a grind because there is no content period. There is NOTHING to do and invasions are but ONE small facet of what needs to be done. Its starts with a Q and ends with an S. Which there are virtually none of in HZ for Bipeds.

Go play COH , WoW , EQ2 , AO and Guildwars than come back and play HZ's system with its vaunted multiclassing and you will see how the game is lacking. I am not kidding when I say that soloing in this game sucks like a box of rocks its no fun plain and simple.

So I suppose this is no longer a complaint about the change but that if you are going to make adjustments like this than at least make sure your game has the content to deal with it. Cause the next logical step for TG to take is level restrictions.

You all do realize that with this change PL'ing wont stop and despite the fact that the flies have just had a simple evasion adjustment they will still be as camped as ever. Along with any tier 6 mob area.

[Theolaerynn]

IIRC it was Manga who stated that this would have basically no effect on PLers. He said he likes to be able to PL his friends, and sees no reason why everyone shouldn't be able to do it.

Therefore this discussion about PLingis pretty much moot[img]/Web/emoticons/emotion-5.gif[/img]

Then what is the purpose of this change? It is a given that it will not stop PLing, nor will it stop farming. So what exactly is it supposed to fix? That is my concern with it, if you refer back to my main post. It seems to be a change that just irritates a number of people without actually solving anything.

Something doesn't have to affect you for it to be wrong. in the metro area I live in a kid was killed for borrowing a lawn mower. It had no affect on me, but I still object to it happening.

I agree, but you haven't explained why it is wrong. So far I don't see what it is, and again, I don't see how this change would solve it even if I did understand.

The way I see it, people who want to be powerleveled don't stay long in any game. Why should they, they have reached the top, bypassing all the lower level content, and now at the top there isn't much content. So if they powerlevel in 20 days, spend 10 days bored because there is no content at the top, then quit, they have used their free month and they haven't really put any money into the game as subscribers. So the argument that they are bringing in money just doesn't hold up. The longer they take to hit the top, the more money Tulga makes. So allowing quick powerleveling does not help the game at all.

I can understand your argument, but I wonder if this change will encourage them to stay. It seems to me these folks are transient no matter what you do.

I have yet to notice anything good come from changing something just for the sake of change. Not knowing what AE is trying to fix makes it hard to offer alternate solutions, or even recognize if this is the best one available, and they seem reluctant to reply to the thread.

Thank you all for posting your thoughts, it is good to see other perspectives. keep 'em comin! [:D]

[Senkeleron Fell]

I think it is a move in the right direction, exp shouldn't be handed out on a silver platter. True, this only moves it down to a slightly tarnished silver platter :-), but still a move in the right direction.

The whole design for exp was flawed from the start. In an MMORPG you don't make your money by people buying the game, you make your money by people subscribing. If they can climb the level ladder and finish in a month, where is your subscription money going to come from? AE should have thought long and hard about how to make sure there was NO way to get from level 1 to level 100 (since that is what they defined as the top in the beginning) in less than 3-4 months.

Can that be fixed now? Not likely. There is already an expectation as to how long it takes to level in this game. Anything slowing that down is seen as a nerf.

[PJ]

You can never stop powerleveling, true. But most people really aren't concerned with the level 20 hunting with his High level buddy at Tempest Ogres, or in the Bloodskulk Encampment, or in the nasty parts of the Satyr islands/East Blight.

Most, well i should say me and not most, I am concerned not about the above, but about the Insta level factories that are the farming grounds.

Why?

-Its an afk affair. All you do is find a safe spot out of the range of necrofly whine (only AOE attack in the common farmland), and go afk and come back a few hours later and your level 50. You aren't going afk in real hunting land as odds are 1.) there are no "safe spots" and 2.) your group will be hunting instead of sitting there in one place blasting mobs.

-Its farming. If you hadn't noticed (new to the boards, whatever) I'm sorta down on farming. Not so much that it can happen, but that it has vastly more rewards then true adventuring, but none of the risks. These farm land spots have all of the best rewards rolled into one. Best shot at exp, best shot at forms/techs, (best at cash if your at blights), best chance at the "Rare" and "Very Rare" Loot, Best shot at everthing. Its BS and its chasing real adventurers out of the game left and right.

-It does have downsides. Alot of these Elnoobs, have no idea how to play the game, let alone their character. Exp can come quickly, knowledge doesn't necessarily tag along. It turns characters into beggers, whether for cash, equipment, information. Not to mention begging for more levels because they never figured out that no matter what your level/rating you can level yourself.


This change does nothing to stop it either powerleveling in a real group hunt, or powerleveling at the farmland. The latter won't be fixed in a manner which doesn't hurt the former, unless you attack the root of the problem which is farming.

[Smeglor]

This changehas been put in place on Blight now, feel free to try it out.

[Tryagain]

[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Theolaerynn wrote:Then what is the purpose of this change? It is a given that it will not stop PLing, nor will it stop farming. So what exactly is it supposed to fix? That is my concern with it, if you refer back to my main post. It seems to be a change that just irritates a number of people without actually solving anything.

The point of this change was not to stop powerleveling, but to stop massacures of low lvl mobs in order to farm XP for a low lvl member of the group. Beforehand XP was calculated against the mob on an individual basis. So if you were lvl 1 and joined a group of lvl 70's, they could hunt lvl 20 mobs (which they would get 0 XP for) and you would still get XP. But they could round up 10000 lvl 20 mobs if they wanted to because a lvl 20 mob hits a lvl 70 for 0 damage (when they hit at all). So there was no limit to the number of mobs that could be grabbed up.

Therefore you would occasionally (but not often) see a high lvl round up an entire spawn of critters you were hunting, and cast a Flame Bomb V on them. poof. Spawn dead. 1 minute and 30 seconds later they would do the same thing again. Then1 minute and 30 seconds later they would do the same thing again. etc. They would get no XP, but their low lvl hunting buddy would be raking it in even faster than they could at the purple flies (due to the XP cap that each lvl has, and the fact that you can't kill purple flies as easy as you can say desert wolves).

It really sucks when some lvl 80 KS's entire fields at a time to help their little friend. This will no longer be possible.

Since the ONLY effect this change will have will be to stop rewarding KSing griefers, I can't see how anyone could think it was a bad thing. It will not effect other types of powerleveling in any way shape or form from what I can see.

well when the last bit of my Cleric was PL'ed we never went out to anything below level 100. In fact pretty much most of it was post level 100 stuff and it wasn't flies. I have never seen what you describe. If thats what its meant to stop than the change isn't that bad. But I hope they do not do anything else.

[Theolaerynn]

Heya, Smeg!

Can you illuminate this for us? What precisely is the purpose? Is it simply to prevent high levels farming low level areas for experience for their friends?

I am also curious to see if it gives the lower level players the same amount of experience the high level would gain. Will have to check that out on Blight, as that could be an interesting side effect. 10K * 5 critters at level 1 would be amusing [;)]

[imported_tjl]

[img]/Web/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]tjl wrote:

Well, it's not adding anything... and that is too bad. But it is certainly not removing anything as I see it.

As you see it.
What if we found out 10% of the population of istaria liked power leveling.
Orbased on the "rampent", "overwhelming" numbers power leveling, it is wanted by people.
SoTulga makes this change.
To satisfy whom? And how many? And why?

what are you talking about? I don't think it matters if 100% of the population liked powerleveling. it's to ******** easy to do in some instances. and this fix addresses one of those problems.

instead, its trying to put how much xp can be gained back closer to the levels it was a several months ago, premerge. It is adding to the grind a bit.. but PLeveling through in a few weeks and you totally miss a lot of the content.
What content?
The mobs?
The Events?
The Biped quests?

there are many biped quests, all sorts of mobs, ( and there were events, its hopefully coming back soon). there is content, you just have to look for it.

Adding to grind, i.e. the only thing to do in Istaria isn't a good thing. You still haven't give a good reason for stoping them.

well, I hate to break it to you, but everything in a MMORPG is a grind. I didn't implement this change, so I don't need to come up with reasons why refuse. I am just saying why I think it's good.

That is the way it was pre-merge?

yes. it took a while to get to 100. took my mage around 210 days. the only "grind" I felt was from level 80+, since there were no mobs above that level. all the rest were fun and enjoyable.

Perhaps your argument would have some merit if there was something to do in game now. As quest are missing, events are missing, and people are missing, removing anything from the game is now considered progress!

some quests are missing, but many are still ingame. there is plenty to do. but only if you look for it. could there be more, yes absolutly! but...
sometimes you have to make changes in order to make progress. if the way people level now is not changed, tugla will be wasting thier effort by making new content for tier I - IV, since people spend a few days in those tiers it seems.

Some people want to do events.
Some want to solo.
Some want to be PLed.
Some want to craft.

Lets remove the PL people. yeah, cut out some of the customer base because, that is what it was pre-merge.

this fix is not removing PL people. that is where you are mistaken.

I say they are better off adding to the game, completing the game before nerfing anything.

they added all this super extra xp at one point, and it has made leveling too fast. so adding is not always the solution.

[Smeglor]

Theo: Yep, that's pretty much it. If the fight isn't at least something of a risk for the strongest member of the group, nobody should be rewarded with experience.

XP is still distributed among the group members based on their rating compared to the total rating of the group, so the higher rating members will get more experience than lower.

[evilkarl]

You seem to still gain xp until your rating is about double that of the thing you are killing. So until there is rating 241 players everyone will still be able to group for xp it is just the xp awarded will be diminished.

Considering there are no Rating 240 players (afaik) and the average rating is <100 this is not going to prevent most people earning xp. Of course people who only group for xp will make sure the ratings are closer together but if they are only grouping for xp who needs them anyway.

[Theolaerynn]

Thanks, Smeg! I apprecaite the clarification.

[Tryagain]

tlj please do not debate the content of horizons for you can be to easily shot down. Suffice to say when compared with the rest of the MMO industry Horizons is hundreds of light years behind in content. It is the games achilles heal there is simply no logical debate and point to be made there. So suffice it to say nerfs like this have to happen its a fact. But when all you do is nerfs and cosmetic changes and no content addition you have some serious problems in your development curve. So yes every MMO is a grind but how much fun is the grind ? When you are having fun its no longer a grind. This is why people use the term grind with horizons. It is an issue they must be in touch with lest mistakes of the past happen again and their inevitable consequences are once again felt this time with definite finality. The get out of jail free card has already been used and there are none left in the deck. Such is the reality of a very competitive MMO industry.

[imported_tjl]

tlj please do not debate the content of horizons for you can be to easily shot down.

im just debating when someone says there is no content. there is plenty. sure its not WoW or whatever, but it is by no means devoid of any. if so, I would not have over 100 completed quests in my quest log.

[refuse]

You seem to still gain xp until your rating is about double that of the thing you are killing. So until there is rating 241 players everyone will still be able to group for xp it is just the xp awarded will be diminished.

Considering there are no Rating 240 players (afaik) and the average rating is <100 this is not going to prevent most people earning xp. Of course people who only group for xp will make sure the ratings are closer together but if they are only grouping for xp who needs them anyway.

Yes,
it means we stratify the players more.
The high level players and the low level players.

Neigh in the middle shall they meet, for to do so, is counter productive to the lower players.

So check your ratings before joining a group!

[imported_Twelvebagger]

Too early to judge, but if this new calculation works as intended I think it's a good thing.

To my knowlege, there are only about 5 players on the shard that would get next to zero exp at elnath even, so realistically this isnt going to change the hotspots for powerleveling.

[Bulgrim StoneCleaver]

hmm, lesser aradoth is gonna need some exploring with a low level toon - some BIG changes going on there - woohoo -

Check Amon's thread that is stickied on it- he's looking for feedback!