Update on Blight today

[Vlisson]

good change

@Rop if you get help by a rating 120+ then you dont get exp for the rop but are you doing the rop for exp?

@grouping have you ever played with a friend (you lvl 10, your friend lvl 30)? did you enjoy it? you will miss everything, do no damage, be killed by few hits while your friend hits the most time, deal good damage and can survive some adds. and think about a most worst case. you are lvl 30 and your friend is rating 120. i dont think that for a casual player this hunt will be fun. a casual player plays only limited and in this time he wants to feel helpfull, important and to affect gameplay and not only to call for res all 10 mins.

Ok leechers will always exits who dont care about beeing afk for 2 hours

but if you want to group with your low lvl friend and casual players then start a twink =)

[imported_tjl]

How does this change add anything to the game, without removing something else?

Well, it's not adding anything... and that is too bad. But it is certainly not removing anything as I see it. instead, its trying to put how much xp can be gained back closer to the levels it was a several months ago, premerge. It is adding to the grind a bit.. but PLeveling through in a few weeks and you totally miss a lot of the content.

current players aside...A change like this will help keep new players in the game longer, since they will not burn out of things to do really fast. Instead of grinding some levels for xp, they may actually consider doing a few quests that grant more xp then sitting semi-afk on elnath. I think this change sets a decent foundation for some of the additions we all want to see. ie How many people do you think have PLeveled right through some levels of the class quests (those that have them) without even knowing they were there perhaps? and then complain about a lack of content when they are sitting as a 100 character?

Adding all the content in the world won't help much if the players zoom right by it.

[Vlisson]

yes. if you dont have earned your first lvl 100 than you wont apreciate it

ive seen many players quitting hz because they hit to fast lvl 100 (and some only leeched)

i think its a good think and agree that this will keep player longer in Istaria

[Divine]

About time...

[;)]

This game has way too much power leveling going on...

Good move Tulga...

[8-|]

[PJ]

From just a simple statement:

Experience bonuses or penalties for rating offset between the player and monster now use the highest rated member of the group instead of each group member's rating, to a maximum of 120. This means, among other things, if the highest rated member of the group gets no experience for a monster, nobody in the group will

Its hard to make any intelligent comments on what the change will actually do, unless you have either indepth knowledge of the experience system (i.e. you're a dev) or you have emperical knowledge garnered from Blight (impossible as per what Smeg said). You really shouldn't fly off the handle based on what you think they did.

[Laneth]

I definitly would like to see more on how this works before i make any real big conclusions on it. It took me close to a year to get my first, and so far, only 100 adv level. Man, the rating will kill ya when ya pick up and start your 2cd or 3rd class. its a pita to have to kill something 30 to 40 levels higher than your current level to get decent enough exp for adventuring to be worth it. This might be one area some get hurt with a change like some are making this out to be.

The thing i would really like to see them do to grouping is addsome optionsthat could be set by the person that makes the group. Give us the ability to turn exp sharing on/off,Loot sharing on/off. With exp sharing turned off, it wipes the group bonus out and everyone would only get the exp for the damage they have done to the mob. This would allow grouping of high levels with low levels and allow them to be in the group and be able to heal/buff the others more easily. With this option, everyone that gets exp for the mob would have to earn it. Bad part is, low damage dealing classes will get the shaft on exp in the group. But the good part is, this could be used as a tool to help teach new people how to play thier character without them racking up a ton of death points.

Loot sharing, turning lool sharing off means only the person that did the most damage could loot the mob. But once they opened up the mob's corpse to look inside, it would be open to everyone else after they closed it.

[refuse]

Well, it's not adding anything... and that is too bad. But it is certainly not removing anything as I see it.

As you see it.
What if we found out 10% of the population of istaria liked power leveling.
Orbased on the "rampent", "overwhelming" numbers power leveling, it is wanted by people.
SoTulga makes this change.
To satisfy whom? And how many? And why?

instead, its trying to put how much xp can be gained back closer to the levels it was a several months ago, premerge. It is adding to the grind a bit.. but PLeveling through in a few weeks and you totally miss a lot of the content.

What content?
The mobs?
The Events?
The Biped quests?

Adding to grind, i.e. the only thing to do in Istaria isn't a good thing. You still haven't give a good reason for stoping them.

That is the way it was pre-merge?
Well there were less buildings pre merge perhaps we should go back.
Dragons had less armor pre-merge perhaps we should go back.
. . .

Pre-merge is not a reason for the change.

current players aside...A change like this will help keep new players in the game longer, since they will not burn out of things to do really fast.

Assumption.
It can also be argued that after 6 weeks and they are level 10/20 they will quit because of the grind.
It can also be argued (and seems to be a fact) that the PLing is a draw to the game, and PLing requires 2 subscription and in fact is better for the game then the current change. With the new change people will have to play more solo, thus one account, with PLing, even AFK people have to pay to be PLed, and thus two accounts are being paid for.

By your argument in taking longer, if Tulga made iron an alloy, it would slow the game down and keep people longer? If Tulga made dragons do their RoP solo they would stay longer.

Instead of grinding some levels for xp, they may actually consider doing a few quests that grant more xp then sitting semi-afk on elnath.

What quests?
Trophy quests?
Marshal quests?
Prestige class quests (there aren't any)
so what quests?
Perhaps they could participate in events too, but they don't exist either.

I think this change sets a decent foundation for some of the additions we all want to see. ie How many people do you think have PLeveled right through some levels of the class quests (those that have them) without even knowing they were there perhaps? and then complain about a lack of content when they are sitting as a 100 character?

How many people complain (some in this thread) about lack of progress soloing?
How many 100 level people are for this (hey they are at the top, took advantage of all the PL, ways to get XP (bone marrows/Crimson Scourge).
How many complain about missing quests because of PLing? Actually you are the first to mention it. I haven't seen a class quest capped yet, but then again, I only have seen 2 class quests (Spiritist kill Gritis, spiritist get theft of life quest).

Perhaps your argument would have some merit if there was something to do in game now. As quest are missing, events are missing, and people are missing, removing anything from the game is now considered progress!

Adding all the content in the world won't help much if the players zoom right by it.

Some people want to do events.
Some want to solo.
Some want to be PLed.
Some want to craft.

Lets remove the PL people. yeah, cut out some of the customer base because, that is what it was pre-merge.

I say they are better off adding to the game, completing the game before nerfing anything.

[img]/Web/Themes/default/images/spacer.gif[/img] yes. if you dont have earned your first lvl 100 than you wont apreciate it

If you don't earn your RoP you won't appreciate it.
Actually I don't agree with your statement. Some people will want to start at the top., if that is what they want why stop them. As mentioned above, it takes 2 accounts (paying I hope) to PL.
This change will add grind, remove what little use grouping has, remove the "desire" for high levels to help low levels (new players) in a group, and continue the belief that "removing" from Horizons is content! Sorry, finish what is needed, then start tuning.

Arguments of RoP not being XP and thus power questing through is OK, can be countered by, they are missing the content of the Hatchling by being "rushed' to adult. They don't do the Vladmort quests is one example.

I think that if this change is for XP, it should count for all things, quests included. XP is just one issue here, power questing bypasses just as much content. Dragons will call "help me kill 20 cankerous aegors" or "Help me kill Lem". And that is bypassing the purpose of the quest, to experience the content of killing them (working the way into the spiral, finding Kaa and killing Kaa).

Also by the same logic that this is change is being defended, they shouldn't allow the map pack. It bypasses content, i.e exploring. There shouldn't be any help in game, as wandering around istaria is about the only content left once groupings are gone.

I think that this is one vocal group of 100s trying to slow down everyone else.

Perhaps I will feel the same way when I get my first 100.

ive seen many players quitting hz because they hit to fast lvl 100 (and some only leeched)

i think its a good think and agree that this will keep player longer in Istari***

Have you seen people stay because of the grind?
Have you seen people stay because they put in the XP cap?
Have you seen people stay because they removed the machines from the fields?

How many people have you seen quit because of 100?
Please list a couple.
Many to me is >10.

[Tryagain]

I like this fix. I've seen level 20ish types group with level 100 types just to leach experience. They can go up pretty fast for no skill or effort on their part. It's just a cheap PL exploit and I'm glad it was plugged. No this doesn't fix all problems. It won't fix other PL exploits, it won't fix any class imbalances, and it won't bring peace and understanding to the real world.

But it's a step in the right direction.

If you really just want to SOCIALIZE with high level people, you don't need to group together. Just run together and use a chat channel to talk. Of course if you do that the lower level people are going to have to EARN their experience and do their own kills.

The only people I see getting hurt by this are exploiting powerlevelers. Now they have to earn their levels like everyone else.

All exploits need to be plugged. And while I'm sure there are still many exploits, I'm glad to see one plugged.

And maybe I'll stop getting pestered by people a fifth my level who want to group.

Like everyone else ?

I am going to be blunt here but I will tell you EXACTLY how everyone else is leveling. Of this I have no doubt.

Their first class has probably most likely been PL'ed to 100. Then they might work on other classes. Almost no one as in 95 percent of the playerbase actually goes from levels 1 to 100 anymore the old fashioned way. Why ? umm soloing is boring in HZ it is perhaps the most horrendous experience I have ever had adventuring on my many MMO games under my belt. Likewise I will say this adventuring with my dragon is NOT boring to a point. In that I have no desire to have him Powerleveled. Why ? because the monotony of soloing is offset by the fact that I have lots of dragon content to work on. I can quest my way from 1 to 60 np. I can do most of that solo and when I get tired of soloing I have my wife' dragon to play with as well. But with my biped whats the point ? I can't find pickup groups BECAUSE THEY DO NOT exist. Therefore I must look for groups in guild and now I must find level appropriate groups. They as well DO NOT EXIST. So therefore if I want warrior levels i am FORCED now to solo and thats just a horrendous boring experience.

So am I really whining about the fact that Grimlik can no longer be powerleveled ? nah umm sorry folks I have max level characters in.. EQ , DAOC, AO and WoW. All of which I earned via a non powerleveling fashion. How ? I soloed and I grouped because well in those games both options were very viable. Why ? content and loads of it and this content offset the grind which isn't a grind if you are having fun. HZ is referred to as one grind after another BECAUSE none of it is fun. So instead they made this change and I can see the logic. But they have DONE nothing since before merge to deal with the fact that the game has no content and the best we can do to this day is get Dark Cyclone, shining blades and a parrot on our shoulder. I can get that in the first few levels of WoW or Guildwars. When are they going to stop with the data entry fixes and table correction patches and knee jerk reactions like this and start adding real honest to goodness content. When am I going to have something to do other than grind one completely pointless level after another in both crafting and adventuring ?? As I said this change would NOT even give me cause to blink had soloing and content been up to snuff with industry par and that I had actually something fun to do ? Cause I can't get exp while grouped with a higher level player in any other game. But that never bothered me. Why does it bother me here ? why does it bother anyone ? that is the question and it isn't as simple as crying over the fact that you can no longer be powerleveled. Not even close.

[Alladania]

It sure sounds like this change will have a bad impact on grouping.We like to do guild hunts and we like to have the younger members along so they feel like part of our community. Even when they can't hit the mob, they're still trying - the mages will try to use perfect spell and stuns and the healing types throw out all the healing they have. The are contributing - even if it isn't something they could fight on their own.

I also see that while this may cut down on grouping, it doesn't do anything about a higher level trophy hunting for a lower level.

Personally, it doesn't bother me if groups are PLing on Elnath. It doesn't make me have more or less fun. I'm doing my own thing.

[PJ]

Seriously....you guys should wait until it actually gets to Blight. Then go see how it actually works. Instead of random hypothesizing. The rationale behind the change was not to hurt powerleveling at all (much to my personal dismay), but to instead of having a super high level killing 100 desert wolves for his low level friend, they'd be killing super high level stuff.

[oluviel]

Good move tulga . Powerlevelingis not grouping by any means. It involves one person killing and the other gaining experience by watching.

[Jayne]

Well I can honestly say my first adv type(warrior) was basically solo'd to get to 100. I solo'd cleric to 44, for some heals. I am now berserker 77, I have been at the flies grouped. I wouldn't say it is power leveling, because I hit them as much or more then anyone in the group. I'm out there busting my butt killing and getting killed, while I watch others exploit the game and stand in areas you can't get to because they have cheated and made it so they can jump 100ft into the air! I am glad to say that problem will be fixed soon too!

Anyway I agree with the change, I mean it was just a week ago someone made mention that they were sick of being constantly harassed by players wanting to be power leveled. Well now you can't so no more of that. Funny I never had that problem till I logged in after reading that post. I recalled and wala, someone is standing there asking me to power level them, LOL.

Anyway I like the change as far as what I know, but to be honest can't really give an opinion till I go out and actually witness and try things out.

Jayne

[metagruen]

I also would like to see how the fix really works out before people start to cry about the possible consequences.

Noone - at this point - knows, how exactly the XP gain for grouped players in a mainly High-level group really is.

[Tryagain]

I quote PJ's sig

****************
"We asked for "Reward for Effort."

Not for "Farm Aid 2005
**************

notice the reward part. Is there anything rewarding about grinding 1 to level 100 adventure class other than to say you wasted a lot of time ? Whats the point whats the purpose ? I do know this the only I will be able to group with it as its worded now is people of my own level and rating. There just isn't any on in significant numbers where I can go to general and MP chat and ask for a group. I garantee you I will be met with stone cold silence. Lets say I get one right than do what ? run around farming the silly spawn system which is a deterrent to fun ? I am not adverse to leveling my character the old fashioned way. In fact I would rather do that instead. But Im telling you it just isnt a viable FUN option in HZ due to a lack of any content.

Yes we should wait to see. But when was the last time in this game something didn't seem as bad as the nerf originally looked to be. People were saying that in Feb 2004 when reavers and Archers were massively nerfed....

So yes lets wait and see but Im saying past history says the outcome will be as percieved. But yes lets wait and see first....* hope I am proved wrong*

note that this feature has been a part of just about every MMO since they came out. People did ask for this in 2004 already. Which is when it should have been done. Its almost to late in the game to do this now which seems to be what TG always does. They let things sit and rot till they have a big ugly monster on their hands than they decide " well duhh I guess we oughta do something about it duhhhh ". Guess those ambulance chasers and monday morning quarterbacks were right huh David ? should have listened to them in the first place.

Doing this now seems to late imo already and all they will be doing is punishing the people that missed the fly boat ;) . Well or will it ? you thought things were camped bad now. Elnath and the flies and the tier 6 deadland areas will be packed about as bad as it is possible given the player population in HZ .

spose it doesnt matter really.

[LaiAhna]

I do not see much purpose in the effort that is being used to do this. Waist of time I think.

[Death-knell]

I also would like to see how the fix really works out before people start to cry about the possible consequences.

Noone - at this point - knows, how exactly the XP gain for grouped players in a mainly High-level group really is.

Don't know why people keep sayinig this. If the highest rated member of the group gets ZERO XP EVERYONE in the group gets ZERO XP. Thats pretty straight forward. It just means the high levs have to drag the lowbie to a point that they're actually getting XP. Which just means its a little more difficult to PL a lowbie.

[Goriax]

So the problem with this PLing is? They bother you?

Nice to have it out in the open. Powerleveling is cheating. Yes cheating in a multiplayer game bothers me. If you want to cheat get a single player game and cheat all you want.

PLing is ruining the game (more then the lack of content?

When you bypass 90% of the content by powerleveling past it you have no right to turn around and complain about lack of content. You aren't even using what's there.

The missing events? The missing forms? The unbalanced classes?)

These are irrelevant to the issue at hand. As I said, this doesn't deal with all issues.Yes there's other things they need to do, but that doesn't justify cheating.What they've done is a step in the right direction.

[Guaran]

[img]/Web/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]tjl wrote: current players aside...A change like this will help keep new players in the game longer, since they will not burn out of things to do really fast.
Assumption.
It can also be argued that after 6 weeks and they are level 10/20 they will quit because of the grind.
It can also be argued (and seems to be a fact) that the PLing is a draw to the game, and PLing requires 2 subscription and in fact is better for the game then the current change. With the new change people will have to play more solo, thus one account, with PLing, even AFK people have to pay to be PLed, and thus two accounts are being paid for.

By your argument in taking longer, if Tulga made iron an alloy, it would slow the game down and keep people longer? If Tulga made dragons do their RoP solo they would stay longer.

Your statment Refuse is also complete assumption. Who cares if 10% of the population "likes" powerleveling. The system that hands out exp as it currently is, is flawed. Period. It needs fixed.

"oh my this will just add to the grind" Even more assumption. I agree more fun things need to be put in, however I played my characters up to level 100 and it took 5 to 6 months to get there. It only felt like a grind at the upper end when wolf/wraith quests were the only way to get exp. Now that upper level mobs are in the game, the EXP bonus system that was added in BECAUSE there were no high level monsters, really has no place in the system now. IT's BROKE with it in. We played, had fun, and never thought about or worried about power-leveling. Hitting 100 as a Dragon, I felt a real sense of accomplishment, not a hollow notch.

If people are playing and having fun, they will not be worrying about a "grind". The only real grind was wolf/wraith quests, and craft leveling. Now there are monsters up to tier 7 (we could use more tier 7 monsters). Some sort of adjustment is needed and I daresay 90% of the player population will agree.

And yes, please add more fun stuff to do.

[refuse]

[img]/Web/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]refuse wrote:
So the problem with this PLing is? They bother you?

Nice to have it out in the open. Powerleveling is cheating. Yes cheating in a multiplayer game bothers me. If you want to cheat get a single player game and cheat all you want.

How can it be a cheat when it as the developers designed it?

Oh, right we don't go on fact, just "They are cheaters".

PLing is ruining the game (more then the lack of content?

When you bypass 90% of the content by powerleveling past it you have no right to turn around and complain about lack of content. You aren't even using what's there.

So you make my point about the RoP, the RoP should be forced solo, it is the only content in the gam right now.

And which power levelers are complaing? I haven't seen any, they are to busy getting power level. I see alot of 100s complaining about power leveling and cheats. How can power leveling be a cheat when they put it in the game intentionally. Hey it is their game, they will add this new requirement as they want, but how is it a cheat?

The missing events? The missing forms? The unbalanced classes?)

These are irrelevant to the issue at hand. As I said, this doesn't deal with all issues.Yes there's other things they need to do, but that doesn't justify cheating.What they've done is a step in the right direction.

Actually it isn't irrelvent.
You mentioned content. What content?
I have yet to see blood mage content, I have yet to see healer content.
In 7 months since merge we have had Fall harvest, and Winter Festival for content..
What will they miss? And if they don't care they miss it (like the Lore in RoP for all the Power Quested Dragons) why do you?

What I find this to be is a "hey, we want what we used fixed". "I have been playing since pre-merge" yadda yadda.

It adds nothing to thhe game, and only removes from the game. That makes it bad.

[refuse]

[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]refuse wrote: [img]/Web/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]tjl wrote: current players aside...A change like this will help keep new players in the game longer, since they will not burn out of things to do really fast.
Assumption.
It can also be argued that after 6 weeks and they are level 10/20 they will quit because of the grind.
It can also be argued (and seems to be a fact) that the PLing is a draw to the game, and PLing requires 2 subscription and in fact is better for the game then the current change. With the new change people will have to play more solo, thus one account, with PLing, even AFK people have to pay to be PLed, and thus two accounts are being paid for.

By your argument in taking longer, if Tulga made iron an alloy, it would slow the game down and keep people longer? If Tulga made dragons do their RoP solo they would stay longer.

Your statment Refuse is also complete assumption. Who cares if 10% of the population "likes" powerleveling. The system that hands out exp as it currently is, is flawed. Period. It needs fixed.

Of course mine was assumption.
I assumed the same as you.

Who cares? Who cares if 10% of the population does like it?

Lets see, if 10% of the game gets upset over this and quits, that is 10% less income for Tulga. Oh you will counter (with an assumption) they don't play all that long anyways. I will counter with (an assumption) they will tell friends who wil come here to play and get power leveled. And as I pointed out, it takes 2 accounts to power level. That is good buisness.

"oh my this will just add to the grind" Even more assumption.

Actually not.
If a player can PL and go from 1-100 in say 20 days (casual PLing), and now it will take 200 days that is grind. If they don't enjoy what they are doing (today kill red golems, tomorrow kill blue golems, wednesday kill redish blue) that is grind. No assumption (you assumed I made an assumption! )

Slowing the game down without adding value/content/options is increasing the grind. No assumption there. They did it removing machines from fields, they did it by not putting in TVI forms (or even expert forms for some classes). That is grind. No assumptions.

I agree more fun things need to be put in, however I played my characters up to level 100 and it took 5 to 6 months to get there.

Funny I have been playing for almost a year now and only have it to 80. Perhaps you got some PLs, or went with higher level groups. Hhm. What is the proper time to get 100? (Oh you said characters too, I have 2 characters, 1 at 70 one at 80). So "characters" to 100 in 5-6 months? Do we set thresholds now? 1 level a day? 2 levels a day?

It only felt like a grind at the upper end when wolf/wraith quests were the only way to get exp. Now that upper level mobs are in the game, the EXP bonus system that was added in BECAUSE there were no high level monsters, really has no place in the system now. IT's BROKE with it in. We played, had fun, and never thought about or worried about power-leveling. Hitting 100 as a Dragon, I felt a real sense of accomplishment, not a hollow notch.

That is you.
There were events, activities and more "then".
There is NOTHING now. NOTHING (let me say it again) NOTHING. Snowballs was the big event! Yeah. Halloween mask was the other big event (yeah).
SO it is grind, nothing more.

If people are playing and having fun, they will not be worrying about a "grind".

Playing and having fun with friends (possibly higher level friends that got them into the game? OOh, there is a quandry.
Having fun with events. Oops, don't have those.
Doing quests as bipeds, oops, right what 1 racial quest (for one race) and 0 quests for prestige classes.

Oh, wait they can multi-class. Oh, and there are threads about limiting/preventing that.

The only real grind was wolf/wraith quests, and craft leveling. Now there are monsters up to tier 7 (we could use more tier 7 monsters). Some sort of adjustment is needed and I daresay 90% of the player population will agree.

90% (assumption, you have used lots of 90%s. 90% content ignored)
Why is the adjustment needed? So people level as slow or slower then you?
Because you didn't have it?
Because when you were leveling there were other things to do?
Because, in your opinion, as well as 90% of others it is wrong?
Hey Tulga may see that you are right and implement it. They are on that path as it is on blight now.

And yes, please add more fun stuff to do.

I say Fun before reduction.

Lets give people something to do before you eliminate the few things they do have to do.