A simple idea with big potential

[Aamer Khan]

I appreciate what you are saying.

I can tell you that if you are on Chaos, I will gladly help you get a start with armor and tools.
And if you read carefully, nobody is suggesting armor become useless in a weeks time. After reading comment in this thread, I would say more like 1 month in it would have to be repaired. If you carft along with adventuring, there is good reason to believe that players could repair the armors and weapons themselves. If your not into crafting, then by trading for services or by simply buying the repairs, your good as new.

I do remember what it was like to start out. My plan from the start was to be an armorcrafter. It did take about a month to get enough tokens and money to be able to make my first full set of armor. learning about crafting quests was a big help.

This game has been crafter centric since it started, and what seemed like good ideas, have after a year, turned out not as expected due to underestimating what the player base would do. Pawnbrokers make it easy for a crafter to make money, mobs now drop all forms in game, and resources are more plentiful than pre-merge. Because of these things, the only purpose for a crafter is to wait for a new community project like a bridge, or build on there plots until things change.

Thats what this thread is for. To explore the effects of armor and weapons that bneed repairing on the ingame economy, and playerbase. This is only a suggested idea, not something destined to happen. Also, realize most other games have some form of decay, be it wear on items to rent on properties to consumable resources.

[Dragonboy]

Personally I rather see degrading armor/scales not on a time limit, but more on how much damage is done to it...

Maybe for every 100 damage :1%armor degradation also depending on tier of course...

I read about an idea to use certain tech compontents for repairing stuff which is agood idea.

I dislike the idea thatAdventurers only wanna kill kill kill and dont want anything to do with crafters and even if there is some truth in it I have a suggestion.

Dump a new NPC in every racial town who repaires your armor for you for only a payment of cash (dragons only in dralk or chiconis and bipeds only in any of the remaining towns)...

The NPC checks the total amount of damage and you pay (for example and depending on tier) 1c for every percent damage/item...

Maybe adda few quests to give players a small discount on repairs...

[Narkano]

I personally would hate the idea of having all my equipment continually decay. Especially if it is for economy reasons and to have SOMETHING TO DO! I like crafting but even more I like adventuring.

Matter of factly no one in my guild really needsan adventurerany more ... and it's no small one. Almost no one is out hunting any longer. (Perhaps since the hunters left the game already?) Most of the people are crafting the whole day long. Whatever they need for their craft, they simply buy from the Vielo. Prices are steep, butone can get enough money to buy double the amount of stuff from the Vielo in the same time as would be possible by hunting half the stuff out in the wilds.

********! this game already is too much about crafting anyway while the adventurers are leaving! Whole guilds of adventurer-based players left the game together and never returned. I personally think about leaving, too. Leaving although I consider Hz the much better game, but being out hunting alone and for no reason most of the time. The only hunting parties I encounter are those, that are mass-farming mobs for the new shield-forms or the new set-items. No real challenge for an adventurer who likes strategy and tactics, either.

Ifit's about havingSOMETHING TO DO implement some interesting quests, items, spells and monsters. My time for playing is precious enough and I don't continually wanna run and repair my gear just to keep me busy!!! I wanna experience the game, the story and have a good time with my friends here. It often takes me weeks to gather all the stuff for my equipment (since I do not simply buy it) and now I should run about gathering even more stuff for that same equipment I just got finished???

At last remove Nadia - a step that was delayed much too long already - andboth sides of the game will be needed again. Adventurers as well as crafters! - of course implement the few trophies still missing ingame or let her deal only that stuff. It'll enhance economy as well.

You cannot keep players with the game by simply trying to keep them busy gathering and caring for their equipment with adding stupid and monotonosdecay-system - and it would be a sure way to make even more people leave.

Narkano

[Kwinn]

S'ok I suppose....as long as as crafters cargos can wear out too. And their tools. And maybe even machines on private plots. Anything that gets used is going to suffer from wear and tear. As long as wear and tear is not limited to adventures gear I dont see a problem with this idea.

Kwinn

[IndyMan]

As long as decay was not like in UO where the item went POOF and was like WOW where it just needed to be repaired, I could deal with that.

[refuse]

Ifit's about havingSOMETHING TO DO implement some interesting quests, items, spells and monsters. My time for playing is precious enough and I don't continually wanna run and repair my gear just to keep me busy!!! I wanna experience the game, the story and have a good time with my friends here. It often takes me weeks to gather all the stuff for my equipment (since I do not simply buy it) and now I should run about gathering even more stuff for that same equipment I just got finished???

Very good point, and why I made the suggestion that adv become critical to crafters (just as crafters are critical to adv). The idea of "charging" items, or the blight core kind of ideas would be a major issue in keeping the balance and preventng a one way money flow.


Lets imagine this:
Mobs start droping "crystals". Tiered with the mobs.
These crystals have the ability to hold 1 tech + some small bonus. But these crystals degrade (blight) items they are attached to, so special types of armor are needed to handle this continous blighting (read slow it down, as you can't over come it).


Ok, so here comes the idea.
Things like Werewolves, Kwellians, Vextors, blight and other mobs become harvestable upon death for special "skins" to create armor, for cool ness, add it to fryakki and spiders (chitin armor).

So we would have Kwellian Hide armor (leather), WW armor (leather), Vextor armor (cloth), Fryakki/Spider armor (metal) and different armor types from all the levels. These armors could be teched as per normal armor of their type. This means that Adv and crafters have to work together to kill these mobs and harvest them. These new armors would be slightly better then the pure craft only armors. This would be done for dragon scales too (they have metal, stone and metal/stone, so golems would have to be harvestable for this new armor)

Now the advantage comes in socketting these armors.

The mobs drop "Minor" crystals (the ones they use to drop) that give +8/+16 whatever. Add a new form to "cleanse" (i.e. empty the crystal). So that would be say Transmutation skill (dragons have it too). This provides crystals for "retuning". The problem is the process is imperfect.

So these crystal can then be used by crafters to make "absorbing" crystals. These absorbing crystals are given to adventurers who use a special skill/spell (like the Dragon quests) to charge the crystals. So Dragons can charge the crystals with "primal", Blood Mages with "Blood", Druids with "Nature", shamans with "blight", spiritist with "spirit", warriors with "???". So one type of crystal can be charged based on the adv class.

These crystals are then used by crafters to make special crystals. But the secret here is, that each crafting class can make a subset of crystals.


Lets use Confectioners. They make Bounties/Boons/banes. They use the bounty of Istaria to empowre the crystals. Confecioners do this through the use of Soul Frags (much like ambrosia) and EoB to empower these crystals (they bake/smooth/grind/brew the ingrediants) into crystals. The bounty/boons are lower level bonuses, but accross multiple skills.

So warrior boon (don't remember the level) crystals would be +4 STR/+4 Armor/+4 Dex per +Tier.

Next up lets do Alchemists. They use potions and tools and weapons and armor to imbune the crystal with the properties of the weapons/armor/tools they use, just as they do with potions. So the make crystals much like potions. These would be +X abilities, but stronger then the equivalanet tech (as the process is more complex).

Dragon Scale Craft would make crystals that provide dragon powers. Perhaps 2/3 powers (compared to the Confection 3s) but of better value. Say +5 per level. So Primal/Power at +5 per tier. T&C/S at +5 per tier. Armor + evasion. Different combonations.


Now this would mean lots of forms (we have increased form limits now) as well as a back and forth between adv and crafter (gather resources, cleanse resources, charge resources, make crystals).

So this is in addition to what is there now, not replacint it. So you have the "base" armor, or stronger armor that can take the new crystals (not required) that take more adv to gather. Then add the crystals to the new armor that starts it decayign.

Ok back to my idea.
So now we have this new ability for all crafters (dragon included) with dragons being able to produce crystals that bipeds can use, and bipeds creating crystals that dragons can use, and confection/Mason/Tinkerer/Alchey all getting involved (Masons and construction classes can make Tool Crystals).

So the armor has "charges" that the crystals consume. The crystals are empowered (as per blight equipment) from the armor. So 1 crystal gives you X time. 2 Crystals would consume twice as fast. 3 Crystals times as fast. Or you can just tech this new armor and have it not degrade, but the crystals can be taken out, and moved to a new set of armor, or traded.

So now we have degrading armor that requires at least 2 steps of adventurers, finding crystals and charging them, as well as requiring adv to kill the resource to get the armor. The crafter classes now have an interaction transmutation of initial crystals, and then buying charged crystals from advs, as well as tool crystals from other crafters.

So we have a many to many economy. Adv and crafters have to hunt together to gain "armor" requirements, or "bounty hunters" (i.e. Crafter/Advs) can do the job themselves. But they can't just farm as they have to harvest between kills.

We also have dragon/biped interaction (some crystals can only be made by dragons), and dragons can cleanse crystals (scholars and the scholar class of bipeds can too).

We have a secondary market as the adv's buy cleansed crystals and charge them and then return them to the market (so Warrior/Paladin/Mage are all important as some of each crystal are needed to be charged).

We then have all the crafting classes (even builders) involved in the last step, producing finished crystals. As each craftng class (including dragon) can produce a subset, there won't be a "corner" on the market by doing one class. Even the esoteric classes will produce crystals (imagnig Enchanter producning Essence harvesting/structurnig crystals).

As special armor is needed to handle this new crystals this means there is instant need for this (i.e. no time for economy to develop), and an instant ability to add techs to the armor. From there the crystal economy will develop.

This also leads to the WA dropping new crystals (powered) that can be immediately added to armor (assuming people have upgraded to the new armor) allowing ADV immediate access to new powers/abilities. The WA crystals could consume/blight the armor faster/slower then the crafter built to add a layer of "goodness" to the crystals.

So we have a major tie between crafting and adv, with "bounty hunters" having value. Farming would now be a bit slower (assuming you are farming for armor pieces). They crystal drops immediately have value to adv, and can be cleansed (like blighted items are deconstructed) for other uses (so no unvaluable crystals as any crystal can be cleansed).


The same would be done for weapons (new components to weapons that are only gotten through adv, chitin swoard, Kwellian Horn maces. . . ) and tools (chitin amormored picks).

By making a new line of armor, people who choose to wear the old armor, can still do so, without worry of degrading the armor.

People that want to wear the new armor can still tech it, and not worry about armor degrading.

People that want the "extra" power from crystals need the new armor, and can expect to have to maintain it. But it gives an extra umph, for the money. Also, Crystals can be moved from armor to armor so the value of crystals as compared to techs is increased, though the limitation of degradation means that it isn't a clear winner.

Tools and weapons that degrade but provide additional benefit would mean that even crafters would have to maintani their tools, and cargo armor to use the new crystals.

And finally, if things are bad and you can't maintain your armor, take the crystals out before they consume the armor/tools and the armor will stay at the same "state" until you have time to repair it (but of course without the advantages of the crystals).

So we have the best of both worlds, non-degrading armor (standard), newer armor that has some additional cost to be made but can be teched as old armor, or handle new crystals, and finally the new crystals that involves both adv and crafters in their aquiring, manufacture and delivery.

[Jayne]

Funny I guess I don't have a problem with Nadia, at the present time the way the game works. I hunt all my comps except for ones I can't get because either my character isn't strong enought to kill the creatures that drop them or the creatures just don't drop to offen or so it seems that way, or the creatures arent as plentiful like others in the game. So those comps I buy, Vet abomination, Blue vex, etc. We have players asking lots for stuff now with Nadia. One player is asking 27K in hoard for one Blood skulk fin! If you couldn't buy thse I can see that player charging even more.

The problem I see is if Nadia is gone then other folks that are multiclasser's and have 7 or more classes at 100 will be charging an arm and a leg for those comps. And we that chose not to be multiclassers will be left out wit hnothing left but to multiclass ourselves.

Now as far as no one asking for comps from players and just buying them from Nadia, thats bull! I have several folks ask me to go hunt comps and buy from me. If that statement was true why is the mall at Deserts edge (Nim's old place) completely empty??? I'll tell you why, because people are buying them. Heck we can't gather them quick enough, thats why people buy from Nadia.

Jayne

[mbaucco]

Something needs to be done to give items value, right now there is an infinite supply of everything, and nothing ever wears out. This is bad news, economy wise.

In Matt's perfect MMRPG (tm) you would not have infinite anything, and items would have a "breakage chance" rather than item decay, with the chance for breaking going up slightly as an item gets older. I am not sure that swords, which can last hundreds of years in RL should wear out, but they can break if they are used a lot.

-Matt

[GreenEyedDragoness]

I wanna know where all these rich crafters are. I mainly craft and I'm broke all the time.

I have no opinion on the item decay thing. They had that in DAOC and it was a pain, but I can see where some would like it added to help break the monotony(give us something more to do).

[Guaran]

Some interesting ideas and good points.

If weapons and armor decay, then so should crafting gear and tools. That makes sense.

Forms/Techs/Spells. This is "Learned" knowledge. I see no reason these things should decay. Are we going to be getting alzhiemers in our old age or something? No. We are gifted, and even death can't take us. Forms spellstechs scribed should not decay.

Crafting machines. This makes sense as well, the more one is used the more it could decay. Downside to machines decaying:: People start redwalling plots. I can't see any good coming from machines decaying. Perhaps only the machines out in the fields, supplied by the Empire. The decay rate should be relatively low. On an essence channeler, I would say 1 billion orbs then it breaks. Then it turns into : Broken Essence Circle, and has a fraction of the original materials needed for repairing it. 1 billion sounds hi? I think you'd be suprised how fast they would break with the number at a billion.

Also, there could be a very very small chance that a natural disaster could occur. Say 2% chance per month, per machine that something like a tornado comes along and creates a cool display of graphics ( [:)] ) and leaves behind: Destroyed Essence Circle. This one would take more resources to repair. Repairing a machine damaged by a WA raid or a Storm would reset the normal use/decay counter. So that a WA damaged machine isn't breaking from use 1 month after being repaired. 2% chance would mean likely1 to3 machines across istaria per month would need repairs. Set the chance so that it should average out to 1machine per month. Again, player owned machines would have to be exempt from the useage = breakage system, but maybe fall under the possibility of being damaged by storms or WA raids. This could actually give emphasized purpose to defending the cities from raids. Protect our machines!

Back to decaying armor and weapons, the decay rate should be really slow. For the first few months life of the gear, it should perform optimally with extremely low chance of breakage. Over time, the chance can start to go up that it might break. And it might not break at all. So really I'd be more in favor of "chance to break" vs decay where the item starts loosing it's inherent properties.

Whats the point of decay for mid tier items since you likely outgrow them before they break? well they get passed onto other guildies, sold, saved for when you are mid level in a different school.. But again, no decay. just a chance at breaking.

Something else, when the item is created, the % chance for breaking is established. Totally random. (so that higher level crafters are not sought out in favor of lower tier crafters,with the hopes that higher tier crafter will make an item with a less% chance for breakage) from say .000001% to .000005% chance, per attack for weapon, per hit taken for armor. Would need to be a few months in between breaks, and then only say 1 piece of the armor set is broken. This way an adventurer out hunting might get a broken shoulderpad, but he's not armorless or naked, just looses the use of that piece until it is repaired.

Since it's just a small percent chance for breakage to occur, no useage totals or time based statistics need to be accumulated for the items, and no one has to worry about clogging the database with "useage statistics" on items, transferring those stats when items get sold or traded, etc. That is just likely not even possible with the current database. No need to add more lag or delay to the system.

Thats my spin on the idea.