Why is it that people only adress the adventure Multi-classing issue

[Joaqim]

I'm not a crafter. If I were a crafter, I would be all over that just as I am with this. In fact, I dislike the "Combine forms AND increase form limit so that people can scribe EVERYTHING..."

Maybe if there would be a lot of player (and also mid lvl ones) on the server. Today I watched a beginner Alchemist on the chatchannels, looking unsucessfully for a Sandstone Shaper, all I could say way, maybe after next patch *sigh*

Today it's "Holy Crap! Multiclassing gives people rediculous abilities! They need restrictions!".

At least I hope that mostly the abilities are well earened, the problem is, that there is nothing to earn for single classers, which are mostly Dragons.
On the other hand it makes me a little sick, that a Drgon with the right Scales can tank the SOn of Gigaroth, where I failed twice. I wouldn't mind, but in this case it was even one who made it in to high lvl hatchling sitting aroundAFKon the Satyrs - some Dragons evensuspected he was AFK while doing his RoP laters.

Yep. The single dragon craft class kills dragon economy. It's NEARLY non-existant.

Also thesingle ADV class for Dragons could be seen as initial for the MC discussion. Ok there is still the point about class defining thingies for single classers, but well quite similar to the dragons I also see just 2 bipet main classes, priest and arcane ones.....[/quote]

[Tryagain]

you raise good points Guinness.

But one person crafting machines did not kill the economy no. But it helped contribute to it. I would say yes the Vielo and more so the pawn brokers broke it.

Or more so people became one person crafting machines out of nescessity in not being able to get things made and the fact there hasen't been enough people playing the game since march 2004 to support the true craft centric game where transactions happen and the market sets the prices.

With formula changes I believe its now almost possible to scribe every single form in the game say for a few depending on what you do. But I think this is a change made out of necessity now than anything else.

With the next game should EVERYTHING be done right I would seriously consider against unlimiting multiclassing in both Adventurer and Crafting. If they do that they must make sure the content and the very game itself supports this decision. Right now it barely supports unlimited Multiclassing as it is.

[refuse]

[img]/Web/emoticons/emotion-3.gif[/img]
You know... If there was a rating cap then we wouldn't have any of these issues... *Remembers talking about it alot*

You are right.

All the people that continue to grind classes would have left by now.

More restrictions, removal of what little we have will only improve the game.

How many dragons are waiting for something to do?
Lets add that to bipeds (sorry dragons, they really do need to give you something to do).

[Bori Grimbattle]

Multicrafting did not kill the economy. Without any sort of item degradation we have reached a point where nobody requires new armor, weapons or tools on a regular basis. There still may be work for the construction classes but the utter grind involved in construction scares most crafters away.

As a 100 Fletcher/Blacksmith Bori is lucky to get 1 commission per month to craft someone a new weapon. Being mainly a crafter, if this was his only source of income, he would quickly starve to death. Many times he has stocked connies only to have the items returned to his vault a week later. Nobody wants to buy unteched items and nobody wants to pay the cost for the tech'd item if the crafter has to provide the components.

So what happens? The customer provides the tech comps, the crafter MAYBE provides the resource and puts the item together. What is a fair price for that? If he says 15 silver the customer will ask for what? Ten bars of mithril? They will find someone else to do the task of putting the item together and there goeshis one customer per month.

No. The biggest problem with the economy is the fact there is no degradation which is multiplied by the cold hard reality that there is no significant new blood coming into the game. The only way a crafter can therefore generate cash flow is to use the pawnbrokers and the only way he can keep crafting once capped out is to take up another craft. Supply and demand. Supply is there in abundance.......there is no demand.

[Tryagain]

No. The biggest problem with the economy is the fact there is no degradation which is multiplied by the cold hard reality that there is no significant new blood coming into the game. The only way a crafter can therefore generate cash flow is to use the pawnbrokers and the only way he can keep crafting once capped out is to take up another craft. Supply and demand. Supply is there in abundance.......there is no demand.

Your post raises good points. But I will relate to you my experience with the Pb's in January 2004 one month after release.

I was on Bounty at that time the top weaponsmith. I was in competition with a fella that was bad mouthing me around the server because I was not charging 4 silver for an Iron weapon or tool and that I wasn't going to charge ungodly amounts for Steel and Cobalt stuff. My prices were more than fair so I got most of the business. Wow its UO all over again for me !! my little crafter dwarf was very happy though somewhat stressed because of this guy. So I worked hard leveling and did orders pretty much for anyone who asked. I still though wasn't making real money and the guy I mentioned had stopped doing orders un known to me at the time he had simply been doing pawnbroker runs like almost every crafter was at the time. I sure felt dumb when I discovered in Feb that everyone else had a plot and I didn't because I was to dumb to realize that Pawnbrokers was the way to go. When I started doing PB runs I made and no kidding 50 no a 100 times more money than I did just doing orders. After awhile as the adventuring population left the game the only source of income for me was PB'ing.

Was this an issue ? I don't know say for the fact I still kick myself for not doing the PB thing back in December and Jan already like almost everyone else. I think the more serious issue was the fact that people left and my orders dried up otherwise I probaly would have settled into doing PB runs to supplement my income in game or when orders where slow at that MOMENT.

So yeah I think the economy in game died primarily because of lack of people. But it would have as well become an overbloated pig had the population remained high and the ability to unlimited MC and Pawnbrokering. The little guy would have been squashed out of the market. But is that a problem as well ? I am not sure cause just about every MMO out there has a in game player economy problem due to some in game dev issue.

But now ? changing things now with MC to crafter and Adventurer is pure suicide for TulgaAE and I think they know that. As I have said I bet they are taking notes for their next game should there be one.

[Guaran]

Multi-craft toons, or even cheap farmed forms and techs, did not kill the crafter economy. Guilds did. 95% of everything a player needs they get free from thier guilds. A cheap form or tech is worthless unless the person has raised their skill high enough to use it.

I'm glad they are combining the lower forms into the expert ones. You are a friggen expert, but forgot how to craft the easy stuff?? Thats stupid.

And multiCLASSING is not ruining the game. The system might need some small tweaking, but it isn't ruining the game. Thats something I've made suggestions on in other threads.

[Pharcellus]

Multi-craft toons, or even cheap farmed forms and techs, did not kill the crafter economy. Guilds did. 95% of everything a player needs they get free from thier guilds. A cheap form or tech is worthless unless the person has raised their skill high enough to use it.

Bzzt! Wrongo! There are quite a few guilds who are too small or not diverse enough in their crafting to supply "95%" of everything their members need. Our guild was a perfect example of this. Now, with the decimated population on Order, even those strong crafting guilds are having to look for buying outside of the guild to supply their members.

I'm glad they are combining the lower forms into the expert ones. You are a friggen expert, but forgot how to craft the easy stuff?? Thats stupid.

I don't see the form limit that way. I see it as "you know how to do a lot of stuff, but because you haven't done some things in a while, you forget". I don't think the concept is stupid at all. What I find most stupid is that everyone can learn everything to a Master level.

And multiCLASSING is not ruining the game. The system might need some small tweaking, but it isn't ruining the game. Thats something I've made suggestions on in other threads.

It is for me. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on the subject, though.