Is it time for the Vielo to leave?

[PJ]

Dunno I thought it was pretty appropriate.

Walmart, sells just about everything in one handy location, Nadia sells all technique components.

Walmart, due to the size of the company, can buy in bulk and get special deals that make its goods more affordable then Mom & Pop Inc.

Now its not exactly the same, but its similar. Nadia sells all components at a fixed rate regardless of how hard they actually are to acquire. How is that similar? In both cases there's an uneven playing field.

Now, I'm a capitalist, Walmart has an advantage? more power to them for excersising it. Nadia? more power to her. But as a Mom & Pop adventurer, I'm going to try and take her down anyway I can [;)] Why should Nadia have such an advantage? How many accounts does she pay for?

[evilkarl]

Dunno I thought it was pretty appropriate.

/agree

Why should Nadia have such an advantage? How many accounts does she pay for?

Exactly, Why should an NPC (Be it nadia or Misc PawnBroker 45) be an essential part of the economy and have such an advantage over the paying customers?

[AA0]

Exactly, Why should an NPC (Be it nadia or Misc PawnBroker 45) be an essential part of the economy and have such an advantage over the paying customers?

Um, because shes uber?
why else is everything so messed up in this game balance wise :)

[Sajid]

Everything is debatable. I have not posted since I left several months ago to play WoW. Why did I leave? Because there was no purpose to anything anymore except to grind T6 structures or perhaps make an adult dragon from ARoP or level yet another biped class to 100. Money had no meaning. Hunting had no purpose.

I don't know how you folks keep doing this. Kwinn has a point, a very good point. I post only because I played Horizons for over a year since it was released and hope there is a reason to come back someday.

Best regards,

[EmilyDawn]

okie. here's a qusetion?

how come everybody is taking this out on just Nadia (okie PB's too)?

why aren't the other people in the veilo a problem? like the ones who sell forms and stuff? what about the quartermasters?or the trainers that sell forms?

if Nadia is ruining the economy wouldn't the rest of these people be doing the same? i just trying to be objective here. because to me, Nadia is no different than the rest of these...but they are not a problem to people for some reason? and i don't get it [:$]

[Stingray]

Stingray: "Takes a crap on the Vielo as he fly's over their compound" One last time for old times' sake.

hehe, I couldn't resist [;)]

[Senkeleron Fell]

okie. here's a qusetion?

how come everybody is taking this out on just Nadia (okie PB's too)?

why aren't the other people in the veilo a problem? like the ones who sell forms and stuff? what about the quartermasters?or the trainers that sell forms?

if Nadia is ruining the economy wouldn't the rest of these people be doing the same? i just trying to be objective here. because to me, Nadia is no different than the rest of these...but they are not a problem to people for some reason? and i don't get it [img]/Web//emoticons/emotion-10.gif[/img]

I'm not sure anyone actually buys any of the formulas from the other Vielo. Just about every one seems to be on pawnbrokers and connies all across the game for much cheaper than they charge. I think most of the people who complain about Nadia are of the opinion that Formulas should come from trainers, Comps (and possibly Techs) should come from adventuring. So since formulas should be available to buy from trainers, getting them overpriced from the Vielo isn't so bad.

[Crazyfingers]

I'm gonna try and explain this best I can. There comes a time in Horizons or any MMO that players start placing value on things by the amount of time involved and effort. Somehow coins have to equal the time and effort.

For example a good biped hunter with the right armor, experience, and knowledge of a good hunting spot can find maybe 4 blue vexator fringes in 2 hours. Sometimes a few more sometimes alot less. Usually gain a couple deathpoints in the 2 hours, maybe a few other WA comps, a few worthless forms and blighted equipment and maybe some techniques worth some coin. oh and coins drops. 4 blue vex x 15s, 20s coin drops, and another 40s from other drops. 100s to 200s for 2 hours of hunting blue vexators. Remember that more than likely this experienced adventure has allready acquired many gold coins in his years of travel. Then weigh this against the time and effort of making over 1 gold in 2 hours for fighting tier IV western deadlands mobs. Or 750s and experience towards another craft level for tool pawnbroker runs. Then weigh in that more than likely you will need the 4 blue vexator fringes for new equipment or spells down the line and having them on hand is 2 hours less time consuming than hunting them again. Then weigh in that you coulda just paid the veilo 120s for 4 blue vexator fringes in 5 minutes and spent the other hour and 55 minutes making more money efficiently or doing whatever else floats your boat. Mix them all up in a pot and you have your answer for why noone sales the comps that takes lotsa time and effort to find.

Now lets say a big meteor crashes down on the vielo. The price of 4 blue vexator fringes will go through the roof for awhile. Would players start selling 4 fringes for 200s? 400s? depends but the one things thats for sure coins again have value based on time and effort. For most hunting 4 blue vexator fringes and selling them for 60s just isnt worth it. Now 200s adventurers eyes start to widen. Then every adventure in istaria is out chasin blue vex for coins! Price goes down! Supply and demand at its finest!

Ok this my last attempt to explain my position. Hope it at least makes some sense although maybe not the most articulate of post heh

NimKhazad

[Bori Grimbattle]

Hmmm Emily does have a point. Remove the Vielo AFTER we see consistant stock on the connies for all thosehighly sought aftercomps. For example, how many times have you ever seen mithril frags on a connie? So for the adventurers out there calling for Nadias' demise prove you can keep a connie stocked and I will support the call to get rid of her! [;)]

Might sound a bit rude but it is put up or shut up! Not just the comps nobody uses but all those highly prized ones that everybody begs for. I had a new set of padded ironsilk made not too long ago and after hunting for some of the comps myself (terribly unlucky getting mithril frags)put the word out on which ones I still required, did the connie checks, waited a few days, put out the word again, did a few more connie checks, waited some more then logged in Bori, did a few PB runs and bought the ******** stuff from Nadia.

And I still think the Vielo are feeding my coin to the Aegis so you can see how much that hurt to buy from the Witch, but where were the Adventurers with all the comps to sell that are wanting to off her?

Edit: to clarify before I get jumped, I had enough to buy what I needed at a reasonable price but buying all at Nadias prices would have ran me flat broke. Thus the reason for the PB runs. [:|]

[evilkarl]

Supply and demand. At present there is little way to gauge demand as people can simply goto the dirty gypsies and buy their comps so there are limited number of comps being sold. If that avenue wasn't there the adventurers would be able to better gauge what was required and be able to meet the demand.

[EmilyDawn]

i be willing to bet that everyone looks on the consignment pages on this website (an some maybe ask in MP afterwards) before they ever even go to Nadia. i do. cause i really don't want to pay 4g for comps. an i would rather give players money. but guess what? few-to-no people are selling (which is maybe why they put Nadia there in the first place? hmm). [*-)]

they in demand. everybody wants teched stuff. they in demand. [;)]

actually, i think i am gonna start an economy. [:)] i gonna start putting all sorts of comps up for sale. people can come buy from me from now on. and guess what? i won't need to get rid of Nadia to do it [<:o)]

[EmilyDawn]

[img]/Web/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]EmilyDawn wrote:

i still say if you take the veilo away, then you force people who like to craft to go out and fight for the comps they need.

Wrong. A crafter would not be FORCED to go out and fight
for their own tech comps... they could purchase them from
another player... just as an Adventurer who does not wish
to craft currently must interact with a crafter player to get
his/her gear...

unless of course you feel we should create a Vielo NPC
that sells tech'd tools, cargo gear, armor, weaponry...
just to balance things. Bad idea.

meh. [:$] i just see this.

so wait? instead of paying 32s for a vex fringe from Nadia...i now have to pay 200s from a player because they would inflate the prices so bad because of demand and lack of supply?? no thank you [*-)]

...and you know they would. [8-)]

[PJ]

Hmmm Emily does have a point. Remove the Vielo AFTER we see consistant stock on the connies for all thosehighly sought aftercomps. For example, how many times have you ever seen mithril frags on a connie? So for the adventurers out there calling for Nadias' demise prove you can keep a connie stocked and I will support the call to get rid of her! [img]/Web//emoticons/emotion-5.gif[/img]

Might sound a bit rude but it is put up or shut up!

Why should I? Why should I bother to sell my comps when their value is artificially capped so low that its not rewarding to hunt for them. When the true value of the tech comp is higher then the price nadia sells them for, its foolish to sell them. They're much more valuable in a trade for other rare comps I need.

If you tried to get mithril frags, but could find nobody to sell to you, maybe the price you were offering wasn't worth the time for anybody to acquire them.

Why should adventurers keep consigners stocked with tech comps, when crafters can't keep consigners stocked with gear? How about I'll stop asking for Nadia to be removed when there's a newnpc standing next to her that offers all crafted goods for sale, at some artificial cost that has no bearing on the difficulty in actually making said goods. Sure it'd prob be more expensive than a crafter for most things, but it'd be oh so much more convienent not to have to deal with people.

[Bori Grimbattle]

When the true value of the tech comp is higher then the price nadia sells them for, its foolish to sell them.

If you tried to get mithril frags, but could find nobody to sell to you, maybe the price you were offering wasn't worth the time for anybody to acquire them.

Why should adventurers keep consigners stocked with tech comps, when crafters can't keep consigners stocked with gear?

So you suggest that tech comps be sold for a higher cost then what Nadia charges. However, if I told you that triple tech'd Mithril sword you want me to make would cost you 2 Golds to cover the cost of those comps you are selling,the forms and techs I must buy,and the other materials would you or any adventurer pay that price? The more you charge for the tech comps the higher the cost of goods to you in return.

I tried buying mithril frags at ANY price lower then Nadias to no avail. Due to the demand for them people Hoard them. I had one person tell me he had over 100 but was not selling. They were for Guild use.

Answer to your last question is a catch 22. Nobody wants to buy untech'd gear. Simply ask any crafter how many items that are untech'd get returned to their vault every 7 days. Yet we cannot tech the gear and sell them because the price would be inflated by what Nadia asks for comps and now you are saying those prices are too low.

Arrgh! Hit post before I was finished.

So the problem with the economy is not Nadia or the PBs but rather what people perceive as a fair price for comps,tec's, gear etc. This is then compounded by the "Guild" complex where a crafter in the Guild provides the services for nothing. Perhaps the only thing that would help would be to "fix" prices in a range so that triple tech'd mithril sword would cost from 100 to 200 silvers and the comps 20 to 30 each. However, that would not prevent me from doing a private sale for nothing for a Guildie or friend.

Add to that the problem of a stagnant market with no decay on anything, few new people in the game requiring items of any sort, and a surplus of High end crafters that can make any item in the game with any tech you end up where we are now.Adventurer A contactsCrafter B needing Item C if he provides all the comps so Crafter B, being a friend or Guildie says sure....cost ..nothing.

They could take out Nadia and the Pawnbrokers now but it would do NOTHING to improve the economy. We are our own worst enemies. The prior are just scapegoats.

TRUE Value.. Adventurer hunts comps/techs/forms so must pay for
A) Equipment (armor,weapons,spells) triple tech'd
B)Cost to train Class to 100

Crafter to make triple tech'd items forAdventurer
A)Equipment (tools,cargo armor) triple tec'd for the high end stuff.
B) Forms, techs (so he can make the item)
C) Tech Comps(to make the item)
D) Cost to train Class to 100

So plug some "Fair" values into all of that and you will see where I am coming from. You do not want to sell cheap and we cannot sell high enough to recover our expenditures. There is no easy way to fix it.

[Jayne]

And there you have it! The comps would be sold for higher prices. Thats what I was afraid of. I think the prices are to high and others think there to low. So there is no agreement there.

No one selling comps, thats NOT true. I sell them all the time. But as soon as they hit the consigner they are gone! There is a huge demand for them and there not enough people selling them to meet the demand and so they go to the Veilo to buy so they don't have to wait forever to get there armor or what not done. Also usually i don't even get them to the consigner, people that have bought from me in the past now just send me a tell and ask what i have a buy direct.

Like I said I personally think the prices are too high, but then again I'm not rich either, and as I stated before I don't hammer out mithril and such for money.

Also I spend days killing blue vex and such with my character to get a few to sell. No its not a get rich quick business. I do it because I like to kill and it makes me a little money at the same time.

Jayne

[Jayne]

Yep, I just saw your post Bori,

I have been saying this from the beginning. The prices would be higher! You guys are gulible to think they would not go higher then nadia. Thats why not many are selling them.

As I stated there waiting for Nadia to be gone then they'll raise the prices and unload there comps.

Simple. I mean do you honestly think we are out ther fighting and not looting the comps, of course we are. Thats all you have to fight for is loot. But out of all these folks out there fighting only a handful are going to back to town and selling what they looted.

Jayne

[Levity]

*blinks in bemusement* You mean my rule of thumb, derived from reading posts here and from querying the market from time to time, is not a good one? I have started selling comps, when I have them to spare, for 1 silver per tier of comp. Soa mithril frag would be 5 silver -- though I might double that for a vex fringe, since they are so rare. When I was charging 1/3 to 1/2 Nadia, I felt that I was gouging, and the Market seemed to agree that was ridiculously high.

Not that I'm out there farming comps, being a gimp and preferring chatting and crafting to hacking and slashing, but I still get some from time to time. Should I be charging Nadia compatible prices? I sure hope not, teched gear will become unattainable for most.

I don't object to Nadia's presence. Some of those comps are just impossible to get any other way unless you have a good friend who adventures a lot. She makes a good backup to player sources.

-Levity Merrel, Crai Aisling, Sans AoP by Aiya's pad
100 Blacksmith/94 Fitter/45 Mason/45 Carpenter/25 Scholar/14 Weaver/13 Enchanter
100 Reaver/56 Ice Disciple

[Helcat]

How about I'll stop asking for Nadia to be removed when there's a newnpc standing next to her that offers all crafted goods for sale, at some artificial cost that has no bearing on the difficulty in actually making said goods. Sure it'd prob be more expensive than a crafter for most things, but it'd be oh so much more convienent not to have to deal with people.

I've tried to point this out too, PJ... falls on deaf ears.
Pure crafters want it both ways -- they want to be the
only available source of tech'd goods, yet they want
to have an "on-demand" alternative to having to rely
on an adventurer to supply comps. Same old song since
the beginning of this game, unfortunately. Adventurers
should have to rely on crafters, but not vice versa. Hell,
even I have become a one-man crafting army as a result...

[David Bowman]

A very interesting read, and I deeply appreciate the civil discussion with the reasons for positions being clearly expressed.

The Vielo serve a number of purposes in the game.

1). Story. Yes, believe it or not, they were originally created to help move the world along and to provide a personified group of NPCs to which future actions can and will be ascribed.

2). Economy. The prices that the Vielo pay are intended to be the upper cap. This was not intended to be a permanent, one-price cap, but was to react to market demand. Due to the many changes in the company, we have not YET gotten back to the adjustment.

2a). Supply. Due to the aforemention changes in the company, we also have not yet completed the re-introduction of specific monsters into Istaria. This has lead to some items not being available anywhere, and yet desired by players. Since the Vielo story includes their ability to travel outside of the Prime, it made sense to temporarily provide the desired items through them.

Modifications to the Vielo's current behaviours are coming.

We will obviously continue to read this and the other threads to learn more about what players think and feel about all aspects of the game. Thank you for your passion, we are working as hard as we possibly can to catch up to it.

David Bowman

[Pharcellus]

As a rule, I don't think the prices for the rarest of the T5 comps would go above what Nadia sells them for if she were removed. Sure, someone with more money than sense might pay 100sp for a Blue Vex Fringe, or 200sp for a Zombie Ogre Toe, but I wouldn't. At that point, it would be FAR cheaper for me to just hunt my own comps. Thus, even after Nadia is long gone, the market for "gouging" would be very small, not the least of the reasons being the competitive pressures from other adventurers selling the same comps for 10-30sp each, or maybe even less.

Nadia's inventory needs to be reduced to only comps that don't drop at the moment. Once that inventory is empty, she should go crawl back into that dimensional hole with the rest of her compatriots until the world ends again.

I am all for putting the expert forms on the trainers and introducing expert tokens and crafting quests for them. They are common now, and NO ONE is going to pay hundreds of silver to multiple gold for forms that are crammed on the consigners and pawn brokers for 1/25th of what the Vielo are selling them for.

The knowledge is common in the Empire now. Time for the normal Imperial knowledge diseminators to do their jobs for Expert forms now. Maybe the Vielo can come back when they have Master forms. Personally, I hope not. I hope the devs use another system for acquiring knowledge by the time Master forms come out. I am REALLY sick of mob drops for techs, forms, and tokens. Get a REAL knowledge acquisition system, for Pete's sake.