Good try ... hope it works.

[Gliding Frost]

I don't disagree at all with the notion that the devs need to implement new high level quests for high level players. What I do disagree with is the notion that high level players should be shut out from any quest or task, regardless of its level.

Personally, I love questing just for questing sake, irrespective of the level of the quest. The two new adventure quests on Lesser Aradoth not only provide new quest material, but have some interesting storylines to them, particularly the Lt. Vekh quest. Those of us who have stuck with Horizons since launch, through thick and thin, should have just as much right to run those quests as the brand new player.

Sure, some balance needs to be struck with the Lt. Khar and Lt. Vekh spawn rates. Since the rationale behind Khar's spawn rate is to lessen the possibility that he would be constantly slaying new players coming through the Kion east gate, perhaps a second Lt. Khar could spawn somewhere else on the isle, a goodly piece off the main road, with, say, a one-hour timer.

And as for the notion that high level crafters should keep their hands off constructing the new community structures on Lesser Aradoth and leave them to low level construction players--it's a nice thought, but impractical in my view. First off, there simply aren't that many new players interested in joining and working construction schools early on, as opposed to going out and adventuring. On Order this weekend I asked in MarketPlace for help in rebuilding the Kion manor house, and the only responses I got were from high level crafters. Indeed, all of the lowest level sandstone work on the house has been done by higher level crafters. There's plenty of sandstone left to do, but I've not seen one newer player add a single block or keystone--and I've been watching its progress every day.

Second, the manor house itself requires Tier II and III construction work which, in and of itself, demonstrates that it was never meant to be left solely to the hands of new players.

Similarly, the new mineshafts would take forever and a day for solely young players to rebuild. They're a long haul from the nearest town, Kion--especially so dragging a sandstone or slate disk behind you. Moreover, depending on whether you go east or west from Kion, you will invariably be aggroed by either forest crawlers and huntresses, or greymanes and Saris skeletons at least half the trek to the shaft. I seriously doubt that any level 20 or less player could survive that trip on anything approaching a regular basis.

So, I daresay that were the new construction projects left solely to the efforts of >level 20 players, it would be years before they are completed. And at least on Order, there's enough scaffolding around Istaria as it is.

New content, new tasks, should be enjoyed by all player levels, veteran and rookie alike.

You've nailed my feelings exactly and much more eloquently than I could have.

[Bori Grimbattle]

As high level crafters I kept Bori and Sin out of the construction. Both of them levelled their construction trades building the Satyr mines and it would be pointless for them to assist now other then for advice. They would get no experiance but at the same time deny all the young crafters the same advantages I had way back then.

No, LA construction projects are better suited for those just starting a construction class. It is a lot more fun then doing endless create/decon or create/pb runs. [:D] Being the first to complete something is not always the best way to go. Even back on the mines we would at times forgo efficiency to help a young crafter hone his skills. To complete the projects just to say you finished them is a bit selfish.

Now mind you..those are my opinions.

[Tantalyr]

I myself did the "kill 10 enraged treants" Wonderful concept about freeing these treants from their tortures. But, with me out there a newer player stand NO chance to work the quest till I am done. And after doing it I felt very foolish. These were designed for sub 20 players not me. If you feel ok with that, then fine. I don't.

It all depends on how you handle it, Aamer. Yesterday evening while doing the cedar treant quest I came upon a level 15 dragon in the cedar forest, doing his dead level best to kill an enraged treant. I healed him through that fight, and then asked if he was doing the quest. When he responded that he was, I offered to run with him--not group, simply run--and help him slay the requisite number of enraged treants by healing him. He finished off the quest and gained a LOT of experience, and I made a new friend. After he trotted off I finished the quest as well. So I think both of us came out ahead.

[Kulamata]

And high level players can do the same thing for the mine builders, by guarding them as theytrudge withsandstone disks through dangerous areas.

[Jayne]

I understand what your saying Aamer, but I don't think its sad that high level players are camping out.

They have to. The spawn rate was so long that there were tons of players waiting. smeglor helped a few groups get done when I was out there. There was alot fo folks just killing Khar on there own even when they were brouped, not waiting for the whole group.

People just wanted something new to do and rightfully so. I am guessing they will adjust the spawn rate so we don't have to camp out all day. Thats whats sad.

Its a fun quest, but the spawning of Lt. Khar is way to long to meet demand.

Anyway I helped out who I could and even made the group wait till we could get as many people thru it .

Jayne

[Goibhnie]

I think its a bit sad overall, things being handed to us on silver platter as such. The spawn limit was designed so that he wouldn't be an issue with the younger players, but instead became an issue with the seasoned players because they wanted the newest addition to the game and couldn't wait. Yes, at times I found myself standing around waiting for him, then I felt silly doing so and went on to help with the projects that had been placed on LA. Though I must say while standing around I helped several young players that wouldn't have been able to stay alive with the current agro stay alive. I enjoyed it and so did they.
While doing any of the quests I made sure that there were no other younger players around so that I wouldn't be disrupting their game play as much as possible. While doing the projects I tried to help out younger players by running for them when I could.

As far as the projects go, at least one mineshaft need to be finished so that there were tier I gems for young players to gather if they needed. I agree with Tant about the Manor and it, I would hope after the relocation of Lady Kendra, would open new quests from her after the Emblem had been acquired. Also the lighthouse may open new areas to explore or some other new quest NPC, I was interested in seeing about that, though I don't believe its been finished yet.

Lack of a foresight is what seems to have caused this ruckus. Emblems shouldn't have gonelive yet unless you could possibly get them from every player town, from their militias. The Cedar reward wasn't finished before it was live.

My request: don't feed the starving with things given on a silver platter.

[Jayne]

I don't like things on a silver platter either, but when it couses mass confusion, you have to clean it up quick.

I too feel that there should be more then one quest at one time, maybe that will help spread things out and there won't be a mad rush.

I did it because it was a change from what I usually do. But the wait was frustrating and yes I did wait forever when I did mine. I actually was the one that found Lt. Khar. I told the group to wait for all to be present before killing him, yet someone did just that. And that wasn't fair to the other players. And yes I helped some younger players while I was there, even recruited a few to my guild, so I think it was positive time spent anyway.

Jayne

[Senkeleron Fell]

Because many people with high level characters are unwilling to have quests that are just for low level characters, perhaps more care should be given in the future to putting in an alternate path for those higher level characters to take to reach the same end. It sounds like in this quest if the higher level characters had been pointed to a higher level named mob then things would not have gotten so out of hand. Perhaps a different mob for each 20 levels would have been sufficient.

[Fratricide]

While reading through these responses it sort of frustrates me that all those high lvl crafters are not willing themselves to go out and Transport high quantities of matierals for the lower lvl crafters... you are all strong enough to wander through those lvl >20 areas and not get scratched so as to allow those lower lvl crafters to be able to sit at the mines applying or sit at the crafting areas getting the resources. Sure it will cost some coinage to port from place to place, but as high lvl crafters I would hope that you would be able to afford it, something that lower lvls might not be able to do. This way the lower lvl crafters get the xp for making the items and for application of them, but the project will still get done in a resonable amount of time.

Now as for the quests... True it is upsurd that we should all hop on in to those lower lvl quests as soon as they are released... I myself am guilty of this, but have changed my mind and decided that I would postpone the completion/start of these quests until a week or two have passed... of course... if I happen to see Lt Khar as I wander around helping some of my lower lvl guildmates stay alive while doing their quests... Im sure that I will see if I can't be in the group when he actually perishes.. but if Im not... Ill survive...

I am sure that there will be more quests to get people from Private to Corporal and from there to Sergeant... etc.. but those will be camped for the first few weeks too... so darn.. ill have to wait a couple of weeks before I can do the quest in peace.. but rest assured as soon as the traffic dies down a little the quest will be done..

[Goibhnie]

Senk that would be an excellent alternative. Another could have been randomly placing it on the other Lts or named that roam the island. Granted I'm sure several are involved in other quests, but it would spread the search out.

After thinking a little more, the Kion Militia Emblem should be for Saris only and since after seeing how popluar the militia is the rest of the races join in. Perhaps, if ranks do increase, each Rank could infer a usable/passive ability. This isn't to replace racial quests, but add to them if you are the adventuring type.

[Jayne]

Yes good idea, I was thinking the same thing. Should be the same quest or at least a quest to get the same items at a higher level. Of course from the groups I saw out there killing lt. Khar, all were higher then the quest was designed for.

Jayne

[Snowdonia Honeythorn]

After thinking a little more, the Kion Militia Emblem should be for Saris only and since after seeing how popluar the militia is the rest of the races join in. Perhaps, if ranks do increase, each Rank could infer a usable/passive ability. This isn't to replace racial quests, but add to them if you are the adventuring type.

If you've done the quest and read the dialog you'd realize that no, this quest should not be for Saris only. Lady Kendra, when honoring you with the Emblem, states that she is making you an honorary member of the Militia. You shouldn't have to be a certain race to be an honorary member.

Again, I don't think the issue here is that high levels, certain races, or certain classes should be excluded from quests such as this. The issue is only putting in a couple quests in a single level range and not the others.

Lets say they released some new quests... One in the 1-20 range, one in the 21-40 range, one in the 41-60, one in the 61-80 range, and one in the 81-100 range. If you were 100 which quest would YOU do first? I know if it was me and I was 100 I'd be starting at the top baby (so long as I knew where the top was :P) and working my way down! I doubt there are many high levels out there that would do differently. By the time the high levels go through working their way down all the other quest ranges and got to the 1-20 a fair bit of lowbies would have done their quests and the high levels wouldn't be infringing too much on the lower levels hunting grounds.

Starvation leads to two progressive outcomes.
1) Gorging - starve a person and when they are offered a morsel they will gorge themselves silly.
2) Lethargy - starve a person too long and even an offered morsel is inconsequential; this will lead to certain demise (leaving the game).

We're all gorging but there aren't enough morsels to go around. Once the devs get a good, steady flow of morsels out there for us to feed on we will stop gorging. It's just a matter of finding that balance and knowing where to place the morsels and when. What we don't need is more restrictions and hinderances to satiating our appetite for content. So please don't make a call for these (restrictions/hinderances) where none is needed.

As frustrating as it may be for the players and the devs it HAS to be a fair bit heartening to us and them as well. Just think about how cool it must be that SOOO many people are scrambling to take part in something new and exciting that's just been put in. Whoever did the quests has got to be thinking, even if only a little bit, "I made that quest. That was me!" and smiling widely to themselves. :) I know I, as a player, see the cooperation that is going into these new quests (IE almost ALL players involved are being civil, not starting fights, actually being very helpful, eager to include others in the kill, etc) by the player base and it makes me smile and think, "I am SOOO glad I am here and play THIS game because anywhere else this would be hella ugly."

[Vandellia]

My take on the mess is simple i find it irritating that some people think its right or their right to camp a spot and kill everything while waiting for a specific spawn to show up. Other players have the same quests/sub quests to do that you do if you arent being attacked dont pull their mobs let them do their quests its bad form to kill steal a needed mob if you have completed that portion of a quest

[Pharcellus]

Normally, far be it from me to suggest this kind of solution, as most will hate the idea, but maybe low-level quests should have a level cap to those who can get them.

Sucks that we wouldn't be able to go back and do them as our 100+ rating ubertoons, but it is kinda neat and unique for those who could.

One still always could create an alt to complete them, though. However, the alt would be in the proper level range for the quest, making it fun.

[arseovrteakettl]

What I was trying to point out was, that with nothing "new" to do but the LA quests, it was very sad to see 10 level 100 players camping a level 16 mob. I myself did the "kill 10 enraged treants" Wonderful concept about freeing these treants from their tortures. But, with me out there a newer player stand NO chance to work the quest till I am done. And after doing it I felt very foolish. These were designed for sub 20 players not me. If you feel ok with that, then fine. I don't.

Would it not be a good thing here to borrow some ideas from another game -- CoH -- that handles this issue very well? There are level limits for accessing certain foes (easier to do in CoH because of instancing but doable here if mobs are immune to damage from attackers above their own levels).

To accommodate the people who wish to quest far below their level in a noble manner, there isthe exemplar system. Any player can "exemplar" a higher level character, who then is "reset" to fight at the level of the one who exemplar's them. The higher level one, the exemplar, does not earn xp for the time, but instead does soemthing far more motivating at times: they work off death penalty. The lower level one gets xp as normal. If the exemplar has no death penalty, they just get coin (aka "influence") equal to the xp or death penalty reductionthey would earn.

This way, the higher level character can actual kill the mob s/he would not be able to kill unless exemplared, and so complete the quest.

edit: typos

[cattoy]

three words:

Send more marauders.

[Goibhnie]

Cattoy have you looked at the LA deadlands just up from the bronze fields. Never seem to be a short supply of anything there.

[AA0]

I don't think the solution here is to limit what people can do, or make it so that any new content isn't accessible by players.

I've been complaining for a long time that there is no content, I don't care about loot or anything of that nature. There is just nothing to do at all, the devs put something in, and its based on tier3 stuff still at the most, making construction done in a day, or kill tasks that are so easy to complete why bother. This was bound to happen, and as soon as I heard of the quests I knew it wasn't worth doing as just about everyone would be doing it asap, because there is nothing to do.

High level players should be able to complete these quests, experience the game and the story, but give them something else to do, something challenging and deadly for them. Let us work on t6 mines, not t1, let us fight t6 super-bosses not one hit kills. I can't imagine too many people are having fun camping one specific enemy all day, but imagine what else there is to do if they are doing this instead.
The game has some major high end issues and it needs solving now

[Aamer Khan]

What happend yesterday with the NB attack was a step in the right direction.

There was a level limit set, and if you were over that level, you could not port to NB, and if you were already there, you were ejected from town by being transported elsewhere.

Was this fair? YES!

It was a perfect example of how it should work. But how could this be applied to the Lt. Khar problem? Well, short of ejecting any player higher than level 20 off of LA it can't be applied directly. This is due to where Lt. khar patrols. Now, if you moved him to the blighted area across the rope bridge from the treants, and made his patrol a bit closer, then you could control it better, and possibly do what was done with NB.

It was high time that the Newbies got to have the same fun we older players get to have with town raids. Some may feel that our "rights" were violated, but something needs to be done to control who participates in these events. If for no other reason than keep lag down, or allow the event to last a bit longer by keeping the "uber" players from quickly slaying every mob in sight.

We all need to get past thinking about our "rights", and remeber that we are here to have fun and be with our friends. I personally don't find killing 50 maggots ( like at Chic ) a fun event, but do find stopping the hoards of bone knights well outside of Aug a fun event.

[arseovrteakettl]

Aamer, do you think it would work to make Khar immune to damage from attackers more than 10 levels higher than he is? They just couldn't hit him -- their miss rate would be 100%.

Not sure mind you what the RP story for this would be. But surely a very niftystory could be woven.