Blight Update Notes for July 12th, 2005. - modified -

[Death-knell]

But that is my point. In most world dragons are rare, dwarves being mages varies but mostly their not the sharpest tools in the shed so people don't play them as such and well half-giants aren't usually a character class. But then stats in HZ don't figure in as much as other games either.

My point is HZ is unique in so many aspects that using a generaly accepted name such as mithiril was a booboo. Calling dragons dragons is ok, because they match the generally accepted attributes and powers. As is the same with the other races. Even adamantium is acceptable since its generally held as a humanoid made alloy.

[HratLi]

LOL.... the resources were all a bit boo booed when they first game out.

Like, Oak and Maple were reversed, and it was easier to just make oak T3, and maple T4 than 'fix' it to original specs, so they just swapped some of the forms, and Oak became T3.

Or the kenaf/wool thing. Sheep were supposed to supply Wool for T2 if I am not mistaken.

And I don't want to THINK about how many people who think that steel is an alloy of Iron and nickle now, as opposed to just highly carbonized Iron.

-HratLi

[Bulgrim StoneCleaver]

Your argument is make it special because of its name and the out of game RL lore associated with it - or change its name.

Ok -I vote they change the name - call it Grindorium...

Better?

I just don't see what that fixes....

Bulgrim

[Senkeleron Fell]

Your argument is make it special because of its name and the out of game RL lore associated with it - or change its name.

Ok -I vote they change the name - call it Grindorium...

Better?

I just don't see what that fixes....

Bulgrim

Well, it would remove the silly "Oh my god you can't make it an alloy, it is MITHRIL!!" arguments.

Other things we have to ignore- bars of bronze, silver, gold, platinum all weigh the same and have very little difference in price and yet a silver coin is work 1000 bronze coins.

[Tantalyr]

Some pertinent info from Wikipedia:

Adamantium is a fictional metal alloy in a number of fictional settings, notably the Marvel Universe. The name is derived from the word adamant. Created by Dr. Myron MacLain, the iron-based alloy is malleable in its molten state, but is virtually indestructible once cooled. Variants include carbonadium, a malleable form used by the villain Omega Red, and Captain America's shield, which is made of an unknown vibranium-based alloy that was reverse-engineered to create adamantium, and is the only man-made substance known to be more durable in the Marvel Universe.

Mithril is a fictional material from J. R. R. Tolkien's universe, Middle-earth. It is a precious silvery metal, stronger than steel but much lighter in weight, that was mined by the Dwarves in the mines of Khazad-dûm. The name mithril comes from two words in Sindarin?mith, meaning "grey", and ril meaning "glitter". Mithril was also called "true-silver" by Men, while the Dwarves had their own, secret name for it. It is unclear whether or not mithril is a real metal; many have thought it to be platinum, however, platinum is far too heavy to qualify as a candidate. It is possible that this legendary material was modelled after titanium, as this metal, while actually quite abundant as ore, was very expensive to produce in its metallic form (especially by medieval technology), and has some of mithril's properties of strength, corrosion resistance, and light weight. Other possibilities are aluminium or magnesium; these metals are even lighter than titanium, but not as strong. (Famously, Napoleon III of France once bought dinnerware made out of aluminium because it was more expensive than gold at the time.) Certainly Tolkien, being highly educated, would have had knowledge of these three metals and the difficulty in preparing them. However, probably because nobody is known to have asked Tolkien about mithril, it will never be known with certainty whether mithril is based on any real metal.

Note, first, that Tolkien's real world inspiration for mithril was never divulged, so it cannot be said for certain that this fictional metal was intended to be a "pure" metal like iron, or an alloy.

On the other hand, it appears that adamantium has always been considered an alloy, so it's possible that when the Tier VI forms arrive adamantium will also need to be worked as an alloy.

[Death-knell]

OK Tant, that blue is killing me [:P]

And I believe it was already said adamantium would be an alloy but I can't find the qoute for you. And thanks for the defs and why tolkein may have been the first there are a lot of other instances in fantasy worlds that use the term. Some even consider its origin to be that of a meteor shower that hit the world and left those rare deposits.

But in all the tales mithiril has some unusual traits that put above metal most are mystical/magical.

I just think if they were going to use the term they would have attached it to a resource that would have been rare and special. Not the generic spawn of tier 5.

[Bulgrim StoneCleaver]

Mithril does have mystical properties.....it allows it to be imbued with magical effects (techniques) 3 times rather than 2 times like cobalt or steel.There it's more special now and they even implemented it at the start....but in your arguments you think it should be 'special or rare' - so there should be less bars in the world, right? Doesn't this change do just that?

So, next argument for mithril is?

Look, I'm not saying I think it is just awesome that they have decide to change howmithril is going to work on live. I'm pointing out that you defeat your own argument because its flawed. Come up with a valid argument that supports how easy mithril is now and why it shouldn't be changed in some way to reflect what should be tier 5 difficulty - so far you haven't done this in this thread.

Bulgrim

[Death-knell]

Well the extra tech is just a function of tier which is why bronze takes 1. Also all tier 5 resources can take 3 techs....again tier.

I like your name better...grindium, but I don't think tulga would go for it [<:o)]

And no, if it were up to me there would be grinium and then mithiril. Mithiril wouldn't be a tier, but really rare items (ie...a handful of swords a few rings some armor) but it would be ultra rare and not something the players could mass produce on any scale and to produce it would require a few very rare instances.

And no their current actions don't significantly slow down the production of tier 5, its just aggravating.

[Bulgrim StoneCleaver]

Well, sounds like what you want is a TOTAL revamp of how crafting works - I'm interested in some changes to it as well. Your idea of what mithril should be seems to fit more in line with EQ2 crafting system - curious.....did you play that sometime recently?

EQ2 craft system is entirely different from Horizons crafting - I think fixing it to where you want it to be would take about as long as Lairs/ARoP has taken....you want to talk about aggravating.

Bulgrim

[Death-knell]

I played EQ2 from launch date +3 months. Now that crafting system was aggravating. It is a terrific concept, but they took it too far to the extreme. I had a 21 sage and I could only make 1 chloro oil/resin at a time. My guild needed 50 per batch for a project we were working on. 1 freaking oil at a time....that was too slow.

I'm not ready for a complete revamp, but they do need to think things out better. The devs seem to get a burr under their saddle and flail around for a solution and jump on the first thing that comes around. I really don't know what their trying to accomplish with this mithiril change. It doesn't make any sense, it makes things more aggravating but isn't going to slow down the power levelers because their already 100th level. And other that follow are still going to PL, it just takes a little bit longer. Even if they do this to all tier 5 you're just pissing people off and not really slowing anyone down.

The poor casual gamer is the one going to take the hit

[imported_Ssilmath]

And I don't want to THINK about how many people who think that steel is an alloy of Iron and nickle now, as opposed to just highly carbonized Iron.

-HratLi

Actually HratLi, Steel is any number of combinations, each with different properties...

From Wikipedia...



About 65 percent of the nickel consumed in the Western World is used to make austenitic stainless steel. Another 12 percent goes into superalloys. The remaining 23% of consumption is divided between alloy steels, rechargeable batteries, catalysts and other chemicals, coinage, foundry products, and plating.

Applications include: Stainless steel and other corrosion-resistant alloys, Nickel steel is used for armor plates and burglar-proof vaults.


And concerning Cobalt...

Applications

Alloys, such as:[*]Superalloys, for parts in gas turbine aircraft engines.[*]Corrosion- and wear-resistant alloys.[*]High-speed steels.[*]Cemented carbides (also called hard metals) and diamond tools.[/list]


Sooo...As we can see, cobalt and nickel are both used to make stainless and high speed/high quality steels respectively...

I foresee a new emphasis on the trade in platinum ore and placed on consigners in Old Oaks...could help stimulate commerce a little...I know I'll be gathering lots of the ore and stocking connies with it...

[Crazyfingers]

Mithril does have mystical properties.....it allows it to be imbued with magical effects (techniques) 3 times rather than 2 times like cobalt or steel.There it's more special now and they even implemented it at the start....but in your arguments you think it should be 'special or rare' - so there should be less bars in the world, right? Doesn't this change do just that?

So, next argument for mithril is?

Look, I'm not saying I think it is just awesome that they have decide to change howmithril is going to work on live. I'm pointing out that you defeat your own argument because its flawed. Come up with a valid argument that supports how easy mithril is now and why it shouldn't be changed in some way to reflect what should be tier 5 difficulty - so far you haven't done this in this thread.

Bulgrim

Mithril has always in fantasy world been a bane. Dig to deep for mithril bad things happen. Get to greedy for mithril bad things happen. If you wanna make mithril rarer in a rpg sense that fits horizons, make it dry up. In horizons the greed for mithril to gain experience in craft levels and coins has been insane. Turn it into a story. I explained the story in another post.

Tweaking mithril the way the developers are doing it is just a waiste of time and adds nuthing to the GAME of Horizons. Has no history behind it, no reasoning for it, and is just plain unimaginative.

My suggestions is either leave it alone or smoke some bud and think up something imaginative.

NimKhazad

[Bulgrim StoneCleaver]

Again.... mithril is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to PL crafting...

Smeglor from Discussions:

This seems like a perfect opportunity for me to introduce an upcoming change.

Through discussions in the focus groups and IRC, we've decided to add the concept of"primary skills" to crafting schools. This means that for each crafting school, certain skills taught by that school are considered "primary". Only crafting with primary skillsgive experience. For the most part, the primary skills for each school are obvious - there will be a full outline later - but two of the most noticable changes will be that only Miners and Gatherers will get experience for refining resources and the only schools that will get experience for making tools are Blacksmiths (metal and wood)and Scholars (stone).

I want to clearly state that this change will coincide with increases to experience gains for making items as well as applying construction resources to structures. The increases will more than make up for "lost" experience that would have been gained from refining resources, so in the end crafters will gain levels more quickly than they do now. That is, they will gain levels more quickly when making their school's items at their current skill level than they do now.

I also want to clarify this system has no effect on adventure schools whatsoever.

This change will largely eliminate what I call "bootstrapping" of craft schools, where skills which exist in more than one school (i.e. metalworking) are used for rapid gaining of levels once one such school is at a high level. It may also liven up the processed resource market.

I don't have an ETA for this going to Blight right now. The system itself isdeveloped and working, but there is a lot of work to be done to adjust experience amounts properly.

[Crazyfingers]

So with this new method. A crafter still has the ability to be selfsufficient, but would need to have the primary classes. And smelting bars over and over would have no experience gain for a specialized class. But the bars they acquired would give them the ability to work on the specialized class? Itsa more logical method and its proven to work.

I have read from folks smarter than I, the key to a successful MMO is to forget about the levels and just enjoy the game. I tend to agree.

The gathering of resources becomes a commodity. Being a miner becomes a support role and a source of income. Not just a way to blast through 10 different crafting schools.

Sounds good

NimK

[imported_Zayin]

If they get the exp adjusted like they say I think it will be a good change. But who knows when that will even happen.

[Kulamata]

I would not mind the change IF the exp changes in that way. In two passes so far though, it is substantially reduced, particularly in terms of xp/time.

If a player's primary craft is made less of a grind, I'm very much in favor. If tier VI is introduced to keep higher level crafters busy and happy for a good while, the need for heavy multi-classing as a substitute for high level content evaporates, at least for a while.

I'd like to see prior accomplishment provide some boost though, as it does in multi-classing adv., although reducing the assistance it provides now does seem ok.