Blight Update Notes for July 12th, 2005. - modified -

[Dragoniade]

manga decided it was to easy to level up on the mithril side of things so thus let the nerf bat swing,

How can mirtril be more easy to level up than other ressource.
Can a level 1 newbie powerlevel on Mithril? The answer is no, because to be able to craft, you need to be able to equip the proper tool, which require a BASE level of skill. You can't touch mithril until you're 80-90. And after 40 level of alloys, I believe it's time for a break, no?
Why would metal be the only base ressource that need to be mixed? Back then, I was thinking they were following that rule with metal : 2 singles, then 2 alloys, then 2 more single and so on.
Guess it wasn't the point.

As for powerleveling crafter, crafters are the hardest class to power level. Take adventurer. Take a level 10 newbie and you can send him with level 100 monsters and it will still be able to gain Xp from the groups. Try this with crafting. There isn't any 'group experience', and the crafter has to be in the proper level to be able to get any experience. The only help it can get is gathering help (which give no Xp anyway). All the crafting part has to be done by the crafter itself, with the base requirement, to even gain XP.

Crafter is already tedious to level versus adventure. Don't make it worse.

[Vlisson]

[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Zayin wrote: manga decided it was to easy to level up on the mithril side of things so thus let the nerf bat swing,

How can mirtril be more easy to level up than other ressource.
Can a level 1 newbie powerlevel on Mithril? The answer is no, because to be able to craft, you need to be able to equip the proper tool, which require a BASE level of skill. You can't touch mithril until you're 80-90. And after 40 level of alloys, I believe it's time for a break, no?
Why would metal be the only base ressource that need to be mixed? Back then, I was thinking they were following that rule with metal : 2 singles, then 2 alloys, then 2 more single and so on.
Guess it wasn't the point.

As for powerleveling crafter, crafters are the hardest class to power level. Take adventurer. Take a level 10 newbie and you can send him with level 100 monsters and it will still be able to gain Xp from the groups. Try this with crafting. There isn't any 'group experience', and the crafter has to be in the proper level to be able to get any experience. The only help it can get is gathering help (which give no Xp anyway). All the crafting part has to be done by the crafter itself, with the base requirement, to even gain XP.

Crafter is already tedious to level versus adventure. Don't make it worse.

hmm you havent tried to hunt with the new AI? And yes a lvl 1 crafter can be powerleveled with mithril ;-) if he has one class able to craft it

[Rainbow]

Arechebold, I just wish to clarify something with regards to your suggestion as I am not sure that I am understanding correctly.

I decided to stay as an outfitter and not specialise. I accepted that I would gain less on each level gained but this would be compensated by having variety of resources to use. Currently I have 74 levels of outfitter and so can gather or mine all the relevant resources myself that I require to take my outfitting higher.

Are you suggesting that once my outfitting reaches the level to work with mithril I should not be able to mine it without raising the mining school to be able to do so? Are you suggesting that my outfitting school should have no part in the equation that would allow me to mine mithril?

If so, then your suggestion, in my opinion will devalue all the time that I have spent taking outfitting to the level it is.

I do not think that your idea could be implemented fairly because metal people would be penalised. Why should a person with metal schools need to have mining and people working with cloth and leather not need the separate gathering school at the same level as their tailor?

I just do not think it enough to say, "ah but mithril is very special". Maybe that is why mithril is easier currently to mine than other metals..... because it is so special. There let's write that onto the lore...... "when a person working metal has survived the drudge and boredom that is steel and cobalt, they become gifted to work so easily with the precious mithril as their reward....."

If we have to have this change, I would just prefer it to be done with minimal "damage" to any player.


Rainbow

[gusi]

I believe Archebolds idea was to ONLY raise the max smelting skill on Mithril to 1200, from 1075. Except with a whole lot more explanation, rather then that last sentence.

Mithril is sposed to be rare. Can't make it so that a particular resource is rare, and thus "penalizing" players who work said resource? Then make it extremely hard to process, compared to others of the same tier.

That is the message I got from Archebold. And I agree with it.

[Jael]

I will toss in my agreement to Archebold's suggestion as well. If we have to make mithril harder than all other resources, then do it by raising the skill, not something silly like making it aalloy.

[Death-knell]

I'm wondering if folks are getting confused. Where does it say mithiril is suppose to be rare? Mithiril should be as rare as any other Tier 5 resource!

Mithiril is no more powerful or unique then yew/ironsilk/shining/marble.

Making max effiency much higher is an idea that has merit though. But does that mean your going to raise max eff for other tier 5? With the exception of ironsilk and shining the other resource fields have conventient machines nearby.

[imported_Ssilmath]

In the argument I've seen lots of people arguing that to make metals stronger in RL, they need alloyed...Well, the same can be said of other materials...My BDU's, a strong and comfortable cloth, are made of Cotton and Nylon. Plywood (A major construction material for those of you living under a rock> is made of ground up wood...If I had my druthers, a cotton shirt would require cotton spools, kenaf spools and flax thread, though tailors would scream nerf...

I agree with Snowdonia, give us nodes of "Iron and nickel" and "Iron and cobalt" instead of seperate nodes...and keep mithril pure, it doesn't make sense to alloy it at all...

And finally, here's an idea to deal with the "Rampant powerleveling" in crafting...bear with me...Armorer is a subset of outfitter...if you level outfitter up, there's no reason that you can't level armorer up with mithril armor, after all, an outfitter can do it...but if you level armorer to 100, you can't use the armorcrafting skill to level outfitter up...You can use a higher main class to level a subset, but not a subset to level a main class...

[Rainbow]

Food for thought:

Mithril being the finest of precious metals should be handled as such, and by this i mean you should have the skill required to work. what should be reguarded as a material of fine grade.

Instead of adding another resource and decreasing the purity of the metal, why not look at the skill required to work the metal at optimum.

Rather then makeing mithril 3-1 at optimum which is currently 2-1 with a smelting skill of 1075, raise the skill requirement to 1200 for 2-1 optimum for mithril bars. In order to meet this skill level you will need to be.

Firsta high level miner, which for all practical reasoning. miner obtains the highest skill per level in smelting. and to keep with the lore of the metal should take a very high skill to be optimum and still maintain its pure form. many will say i dont want to take miner up just to be optimum with mithril, well im sorry but i feel that miners should have the skill to be optimum and the other trades take a hit for not being a miner.

second, you will need to be well teched out to still be able to obtain the skill required to obtain this optimum skill.

by doing so you will only be able to be optimum with mithril when your current school is high enough in levels to wear the teched gear needed to reach that skill level.

by doing this we can keep mithril in its pure form and still be able to reach an optimum 2-1 ratio that is well earned by the time and training we put into our trades.

Lets keep mithril in its pure state, and make it so that only those with the skill level high enough within there current school can be optimum . by raising the skill points required to do so will require a higher craft level to meet the requirements to be optimum.

I hope that I have worked the quote feature correctly and if I haven't, then my apologies as my post won't make any sense at all.

The bits of Archebold's that I have quoted, I hope!, are the bits that give me cause for concern that a dev may read it and think hey what a good idea.

No matter how I try to read it, I still read that Archebold's suggestion involves having to have the mining school at a high level to be able to work with mithril.

I feel that would penalise those of us who work with metal and have obtained our levels without putting any into the mining school.

As an outfitter I am able to mine and smelt, just not as early as a miner per resource. When I hit the required level I would not wish to be unable to use mithril to the maximum without needing extra skilland some sooper dooper teched gear simply because I didn't have a high enough mining skill obtained through the mining school.

In other words I see no reason why I should "take a hit" when I reach mithril for levelling outfitting without running mining as a stand alone school alongside it. Why should it be made more time consuming and boring for me as an outfitter when mining is part of my school anyway?

I have read and re-read his post and that is what it appears he is saying to me. If I am truly being a noodle brain and missing something in his post, then please educate me.


Rainbow

[Archebold]

Rainbow i made no mention of the mining skill it takes to harvest mithril. the smelting skill is what i am makeing reference to.

you will find as you get higher in outfitter that you will rethink your decision on not takeing up miner , you will be hitting nodes for 1,2,3 maybefour ore per strike without it, even when your a level 100 outfitter. you will find the same for the harvesting of yew bark and sap as well as the ironsilk if you dont take up gatherer.

as far as the other resources goes, i am not against raising the bar on all t5 resources because its just as easy to take a new school of craft from 1 on up by processing nothing but the t5 resources at optimum from the start as long as you already had a school trained in that resource.

my suggestion is to raise the bar so that you are only at optimumto process theresource when your craft school level is high enough to do so. it will only be high enough when you are able to wear the teched gear it would take to do so, along with the advanced skill gained from the gatherer or miner schools.

the gathering of the material whether or not you decide to take up the schools of gatherer or miner is a seperate issue. If you want to be able to be at your best to be able to work with the material for the gathering or processesing aspect of the process then miner and gatherer are a must.If you decide not to take up these schools eventually you will be at a stand still, for when the t6 resources come into play you wont even have the skill to harvest them let alone process them.

just because you will be granted the ability to harvest when you hit ability VI for any resource doesnt mean you will be gathering anything. I started out as an outfitter took it all the way up until i could harvest silk and stood there wacking away for zero per hit because i had'nt taken up gatherer, so i had to regroup and start the gatherer school in order to continue.

The idea i have mentioned does not in any way take away any abilities to work with the resources, it just allows you to only be at optimum with the t5 resources when you have gone through thelevels of your new school,and have attained the level to do so. you will start out at 3-1 if you already are optimum with that material in another school, and you will be optimum again when you reach a higher level.

the arguements startedover how you could take a craft school and level it so fast when you already had the skill to work with the materials at optimum, many players did'nt have a problem with it, and again many did. that is what has brought us to this point.

[Dha'Vol]

Archebold has had about the best suggestion I have seen yet. Raising the max on all T5 resources would also have the desired effect of keeping people from power leveling from any T5 resource. But it would still let those with the required 1200 skill to use the resources at 2:1.

If a change must be made then this one, by far, is the best of the bunch so far.

[Jayne]

Heres some lore. The current mithril field has been deserted. The king of golems has granted the leader of mithril golems permission to relocate. The mithril golems are angry at the current population near there home so they have moved to a remote location near penninsula heart!

The golems are now at peace without the heavy traffic they once had. Mithrils anvil is now a ghost town and the greedy crafters that own land there are going bankrupt.

Surprisingly Pennisula heart, although is still a stretch away from the mithril golems new home, is now fully populated. The lots which originally sold for 327s are now getting several gold if you can find one.

Jayne :)

[Death-knell]

Heres some lore. The current mithril field has been deserted. The king of golems has granted the leader of mithril golems permission to relocate. The mithril golems are angry at the current population near there home so they have moved to a remote location near penninsula heart!

The golems are now at peace without the heavy traffic they once had. Mithrils anvil is now a ghost town and the greedy crafters that own land there are going bankrupt.

Surprisingly Pennisula heart, although is still a stretch away from the mithril golems new home, is now fully populated. The lots which originally sold for 327s are now getting several gold if you can find one.

Jayne [img]/Web/emoticons/emotion-1.gif[/img]

Well first off nodes and golems are interdependent, not dependent on each other. Second screwing the people around the first resource field so the others on the pennisula can get rich isn't a viable solution. I don't own a plot cause I'm waiting for lairs, but the folks who bought those plots did so because the fields were there. They can't help the blindsightedness of the folks who put plots for sale there. Also just plain common sense has people living close to resources.

When I choose a lair plot you can be sure access to resources will figure into my choices.

[Archebold]

Each of the three generalized schools are just that generalized, without any precision nor optimum skills. each takes a hit on the gathering and the processing end. thats why there are specialty schools to bring you to the best you can be. Outfitter, Scholar and Blacksmith are generalized for those that dont want to have any specialties and each takes a hit.

I look back and many took blacksmith just high enough to take up the building trades, and or tinkerer, and or weapsonsmith and fletcher. Blacksmith by itself suffers in all aspects of its trade when you hit the high end of the trade and will suffer much further when the higher resources and forms become available. Outfitter and Scholar suffer the same fate, the trainers spell it out when you first start the schools that they are generalized in there training, a broader field of knowledge but less skilled.

many tailors and armorersi know started with outfitter just until there skills were high enough to stop and switch to armorer and or tailor because they wanted the skill to do the work necessary within there trades.

[Jayne]

Death, give me a break! I was just joking around. I wish people would get a sense of humor.

And you know what, whatever Tulga does to this game is fine with me. Lore can change anything is the whole point.

Funny how folks cry when something affects them directly, but careless when it doesn't.

And by the way "Horizons is a game.....incase some have forgotten"

[Aamer Khan]

Dha'vol...

It's also good for crafters. Many have not teched for smelting. Now they will have to get their gear remade or at least get a few new pieces. Thus, more new business for armorcrafters, outfitters, tailors, blacksmiths, weaponsmiths, and jewelers.

Upping optimal to 1200 would create more good for the whole system, than just adding 1 cobalt ore to the mix.

[LaughingOtter]

as far as the other resources goes, i am not against raising the bar on all t5 resources because its just as easy to take a new school of craft from 1 on up by processing nothing but the t5 resources at optimum from the start as long as you already had a school trained in that resource.

Keep in mind that there still isn't a dragon smelting trainer, or smelting quests (as far I know, anyway), so those would need to be added as well as whatever quests are used to raise dragons up to the 1200 points. No small task. [;)]

I'm not sure how well this idea would go over with the dragon community as a whole - after all, it's one more instance where dragons have to do extra work to gain something bipeds get for free. It's possible thateveryonewould beleftat 6:3 until the quests are ready to be implemented.

Whatever changes are made should impact all users equally - anything else is just asking for more grief and animosity from whoever winds up being slighted.

[Death-knell]

Death, give me a break! I was just joking around. I wish people would get a sense of humor.

And you know what, whatever Tulga does to this game is fine with me. Lore can change anything is the whole point.

Funny how folks cry when something affects them directly, but careless when it doesn't.

And by the way "Horizons is a game.....incase some have forgotten"

Whatever....oh this is a game? gee I thought work was a game and this was real life

And this really doesn't affect me hardly at all and I take affront to it!! I neither own a plot or subsist on mithiril. So I don't really have a stake in this change at all. And what little it does apply to me I've already got a work around.

As to crafting skill and dragons, that might be a point to look at. lol...I don't even remember what dragons get per level. But 10 strength scales with smelting 5, well thats +250 from smelting alone. I think dragons get +8 per level for crafting so a 100th level with teched scales would be 1050 plus whatever strength gives you. Even if they implemented a smelting trainer thats only 1150.

Any other things I missed please chime in, I'm at work and probably missed something

[LaughingOtter]

I don't own a plot cause I'm waiting for lairs, but the folks who bought those plots did so because the fields were there. They can't help the blindsightedness of the folks who put plots for sale there. Also just plain common sense has people living close to resources.

When I choose a lair plot you can be sure access to resources will figure into my choices.

Placing plots close to resources - of all kinds - was intentional, not an oversight or a lapse of judgement. Finishing machines were removed from field structures because there were going to be plots near the resource fields with finishing machines on them. Mithril's Anvil is no different from Nuthala or anywhere else in Istaria; real estate is always 'location location location'.

[Death-knell]

and I understand that laughing, but then whats the fuss all about. The devs knew what they were doing when they placed the mith field, then the merger came and they knew what they were doing when they did plot placement. So, whats all the stink about it? I mean they put a small community just north of the swamp, west of the thornies and they have almost all the resource fields covered.

But instead they bend over backwards to single out the metal crafters. The changes to tier 3 and tier 4 metalcrafting is a much needed and way too long in coming change. But it still requires more work for metalcrafters then any other crafter type. So, why overcomplicate mithiril?

[Rainbow]

Thank you Archebold for explaining again in greater length what you were meaning. I got my dippy head around your meaning in that longer post andbetter understood what you were proposing.

I did miss-understand a little, having fixed on the mining school bit and thinking you were saying without it non mining metal workers could basicly take a run and jump at higher levels. My apologies.

I am not sure I still understand the part where you describe your experience with silk as I can gather and work with silk with no problem myself as an outfitter and would have thought that the same will be so with higher resources once I reach the right skill levels to do so. I hope I am not in for a big shock.

If all the resources were treated equally Isuppose it would be an okish way to deal with this, though I still like the moving of the mithril to a more remote spot with maybe the introduction of a new bigger cargo disk for all crafters to use.

I do agree with Laughing Otter's thoughts.Maybe this is the problem at the moment with a group of people having done the tedious chore of working through their steel and cobalt levels to enjoy a bit of a less monotonoustime with mithril, only to see it being taken away from them whilst other resource people appear to be having no consequences of misplaced resources.

If it all boils down to the mithril having been placed without thought so that those who choose to, have used it to their advantage to gain levels very fast, then let's hope that the developers learn from their mistake and think more carefully before placing any new resources in the future.


Rainbow