Blight Update Notes for July 12th, 2005. - modified -

[Bowen_shadow]

I have stated to Tulga my feelings on this issue. Making mithril an alloy means the end of my three accounts. If this change makes it to live, I will not log on. I will go directly to cancel account.

[Snowdonia Honeythorn]

I agree with Gusi if these alloy changes are put in. If we *have* to use ore for the new alloys then I want to see the resource requirements brought in line with all other resources out there.

[Sszlakith]

What you have all failed to recognize is that this is the biggest Tarbash disk nerf ever. One item count? Can't use it for t3-t5 metals now. Price of fitting work just went way up.

Sure it's just 3 ore, but you still have to get 2 different kinds, and you're stuck with smaller disks forever since you need2 types or ore, and a place to stash finished bars.

Maybe miners disks will get more use now. Of course anyone who hasn't already worked miner up isn't going to be motivated to do it.......

[imported_Twelvebagger]

I'd just like to say I agree with Gusi on tha above modification. That is what I had imagined to be the best method of all the ideas.

Woah! Nice sig bald!

[Guinness]

My only concerns are as follows. (All resource amounts are considering optimal)

Previously, a steel bar wasmade from 1 iron bar (2 iron ore)and 1 nickel ore. 3 ore total

Now you got the same amount of exp per steel bar made as you would have for any other non alloyed bar or resource of the appropriate level (gold bar/cotton spool/etc)
And you also got some exp for smelting the iron bar.

In general, it worked out that you got combined the smelt -> iron exp and the smelt-> steel exp you got about 1.5 timesthe exp for making a gold bar or granite brick or cotton spool, while spending 1.5 times the resources (3 resources vs 2 resourcse)

The only real difference between their efficiencies was the extra porting around to get both resources to make steel vs a simpler t3 resource.

Now for cobalt it was still about 1.5 times the exp for the total smelting process, but 2 times the resouces (4 versus 2) and even less efficient process for all the porting required.

But now we have 3 ore required for all steel, cobalt, mithril bars. But there's only one smelting process, so hopefully all the exp is scaled up appropriately

This is my concern too, PJ, I never understood why the xp wasn't increased for doing the smelts. Not sure if you missed this in IRC:

[22:24] * Manga-4tw-Sreep mumbles something about the 3:1 ratio change on contribution actually increases xp to the point of its almost as fast if not faster than doing tools as a member of a constructer school
[22:25] <Manga-4tw-Sreep> meh at typos

While poor Manga was tired, I took that to mean the xp would be scaled appropriately for the change. In other words, less total bars made in the same time, but more xp per bar, evening out to roughly the same overall xp. *IF* the xp is the same overall and cobalt is made a lot easier then it doesn't seem so bad at all.

Mind you, that is a big if.

[Theolaerynn]

I dont see the precious T5 metal listed in this patch, is there a reason to intentionally inflict additional hardship on the jewelers and the dragon scale crafters?

t1 jewelry requires bronze (not an alloy)
t2 jewelry requires silver (not an alloy)
t3 jewelry requires gold (not an alloy)
t4 jewelry requires platinum (not an alloy)

t1 dragon scale packs require bronze (not an alloy)
t2 dragon scale packs require silver (not an alloy)
t3 dragon scale packs require gold (not an alloy)
t4 dragon scale packs require platinum (not an alloy)

When doing work comparisons, please include the whole recipie so we can get a better estimate of what you are trying to show. For instance, Dragon Scale Packs do not require an alloy but they do require every gem from that tier. Frankly, I would rather deal with an alloy and lose the gem requirements. Way less running around and gathering that way.

Traditional artisans did not use alloys (aside from trace metals that could not be removed due to inferiorprocessing techniques)because they were too hard to manipulate by hand.

This is not entirely true. There have been methods of obtaining gold more pure than .990 for a very long time, such as the potato method, and yet gold alloys are common even in old works, due to the delicate nature of pure gold.

Platinum, on the other hand, just about has to be an alloy in order to work with it. The melting point of pure platinum approaches 9000 F, and so it is commonly combined with arsenic to bring the melting point down to temperature that is easier to work with.

[Seranthor]

irregardless of how jewelry is made in the real world...

its precedent that jewelers in HZ have a pure metal to work with look at t1-t4,
its precedent that dragon scale packs are made with pure metals. The point is this action serverly alters that because with a bit of minor examination we learn that it takes about 35,000,000 exp to reach 100 in a craft class, @ 80 you have about 17-18M exp. So 1/2 of a Jeweler's life now is destined to be spent working in impure HZ metals.

[Silverhawk]

I have a huge problem with this change...first off is why?......the second question does it add something to the game other than making it harder to do metals?

why is there no real talking about a choice....not here it is go fish attitude were getting?

why not some talk on the boards about proposed changes so the players can put in some input into thier game?

this change makes metals for construction harder and we just changed the whole const. system to lessen that why set metals up only for this to make wood and stone more interesting to work or something?

but most people will look at this post of mine as a rant and dissmiss it...all i want is my first3 questions answered by AG...alass they have ignored me for this long....

[Aamer Khan]

As I see it, after reading this thread, listening to all the comments in MP, and discussing it with a few friends... I personally don't like mith being turned into an alloy, and feel it is the wrong way to accomplish leveling control. Instead of wasting time trying to control how fast folks level, realize that cow has left the barn already. Closing the door won't really work. Instead, give us something to use the skills you allowed us to develope and allow us to prove ourselves the masterful craftsmen you seem to have wanted us to be.

So, here are my observations.

Steel is the same, Cobalt easier, Mith more tedious.

1. Will affect those that are just beginning to work mithril or needing to continue working it.
2. Will affect Tarbash disk users, forcing them to drop back, and carry less than before.
3. Will effectivly slow down leveling because of carrying less, unless exp is upped substantially.
4. Will mean almost nothing to those only now making steel, as it will be the SSDD.
5. Will cause some to threaten to quit, but most will stay and adjust to the changes.

Just as Manga says they will be watching the bar changes closely, We will be watching to see that the needed secondary ore is added in enough quantities that the porting issues are solved. We will also be watching to see if EXP is upped enough to compensate for the losses.

[gusi]

I'm sure we all know that Mithril is supposed to be pure. At least, that is what it has been in many other games, books, movies, whatever. Even though it is but a fictional metal, I believe it should be kept pure.

I can think of two ways to keep Mithril in-game and keep it pure, as it should be.

First would be to substitute Adamantium with Mithril and vice-versa. Thus making Mithril the tier VI metal, and Adamantium the tier V. It would make for alot of data changing *thinks about all those forms, buildings, NPC chat messages*, but would keep the "lore" of Mithril true. Speaking of lore, a crazy Gnome misinterpreted some ancient scribings and read "Mithril" instead of "Adamantium", and thus we've actually been making/using Adamantium all this time, but thought it was Mithril. How the heck he did that, I haven't a clue. But blame it on the Gnomes!

The second would be to leave Mithril as-is, but make Adamantium bars require Adamantium ore and Mithril ore (instead of bars (Adamantium bars say they're an alloy of with Mithril), which would've followed suit of Steel/Cobalt).

Of course, those are just my thoughts..

[Kulamata]

Umm, I missed the Tarbash disk effect; and I had not considered the smelting xp either. Has anybody tried to compare xp for smelting on Blight yet? I await the xp experiment explication ofany xp comparison testing results. And yes, most will stay. With most nerfs,most stayed; some left, none came.And the cumulative effectwas devastating.

Leveling control; nice phrase Aamer, and I agree totally about barn doors; after is not the time for thought. Yes, mithril wasmy reward for puttingmy head down and grinding and grinding through the cobalt.

Mithril had another distinction. As far as I know, it was fully guarded. Iron, nickel, and cobalt all had reasonably accessible spots that were unguarded, but I think the mith golems covered the whole field. That tended to equalize the difficulty, and it was a real difficulty, not an artificial "do it more times" substitute.

I'm very disappointed; the game was taking a nerfers' holiday, and improvements to the game were really improvements, both technically and with added content. And I hear that subs were going up; so emboldened by modest success, why return to the nerfing that was coincident with, (and caused?)a year of continuing defections? Nonstop nerfing for a year and a quarter, disastrous subscriber loss, stop nerfing for three (?) months, and subs increase; simplistic no doubt, but undeniable. This is a competitive field, and I cannot imagine a business case that can be made for making a product less attractive if you don't have a monopoly. Crummy games have a subs base 20 times as large! Please return to the mode that showed signs of increasing the subs base.

And then this makes me wonder; what other little uglies are going topop outof the closet? Is this the future of Horizons? Just keep slowly raising the temperature and hoping the frogs don't keep jumping out?

[gusi]

Testing for exp results on Blight would be useless with the current exp giveouts of Steel and Cobalt. Cobalt currently gives out considerable more exp then Mithril does. I support the raise of exp for alloys, but intended or not, that is far too much given how exp is calculated for craft (base skill). Unless, of course, they fixed that in the patch also.

I wouldn't be surprised if the exp giveouts is the same as on live though.

[Vlisson]

wow

i dont like the metal bar change but its clear that it had to be changed

Mithril has been the easiest way to lvl and craft

why should be tier 5 easier to craft then t4?

this will stop power lvling a weaponsmith lvl 1 with mithril

to switch to stone wont work because a weaponsmith cant make tools from stone ^^

cobalt will now be easier! good thing

[gusi]

[*] Steel Bars require 4-2 Nickel Ore and 2-1 Iron Ore[*] Cobalt Bars require 4-2 Cobalt Ore and 2-1 Nickel Ore[*] Mithril Bars require 4-2 Mithril Ore and 2-1 Cobalt Ore[/list]

In conjunction to this change we have modified the following resource regions.[*] Added a small amount of Iron Ore nodes to the Nickel Ore resource regions[*] Added a small amount of Nickel Ore nodes to the Cobalt Ore resource regions[*] Added a small amount of Cobalt Ore nodes to the Mithril Ore resource regions

[/list]I fail to see how this will stop/slow "powerleveling" of crafts (which isn't actually powerleveling, it's skill graphing. Just like when a lvl 100 Chaoswarrior switches to lvl 20 Guardian. They already have at least 1k base 2hc, and thus can kill very effectively given their lvl.. An arguement for another time/thread). You still have the required resources in the same proximity, just have to perhaps switch yer disk (if using a Tarbash's).

[Amerelium]

giant chickens? lol

[Daedra]

Ok, I admit I dont do much crafting but I had noticed on general sentiment before this patch. That was that steel and cobalt (especially the latter) was too difficult and that mithril was too easy. Tbh I'm surprised mithril has been left as it has for so long. Now I don't know about the possible need to change the amounts to bring it in line with other stuff....but expecting mithril to stay as easy as it is doesnt fit for me.

[Mzengr]

Well, let's see here. Nerf hunting. Check. Nerf hunting till its no fun. Check. Nerf crafting until its no fun. Check check.

Maybe next week on blight we can find another way to make the game more boring and tedious.

how about we spend the time we use for coming up with new ways to destroy the game and add some INTERESTING content?

For the love of the game.... don't nerf the Mithril.

[Jem]

Geez which dev hates metal?? What have the metal schools done to deserve to deserve this nightmare?

Alloy.. smalloy... don't care to hear the alloy rationale- because let's admit it - it's a game. I mean if you spout the alloy rationale then where is the rationale for essence- whatever the heck that is??

The only other things that I am aware of that require 2 different resources to make a base item are tannins and pottery- but the second resource is water -which you dont have to travel to the ends of Istaria to obtain.

Now add to this nightmare that the only portable disk only holds 1 item type and this whole scenario is total bs.

These changes make me totally uninterested in doing any more in my metal schools- or any crafting school for that matter. Crafting is about as exciting as watching paint dry- so this will be like watching both the primer coat and the regular coat dry.

How about they focus on fixing the invisible mobs at the mith to appear instead of making crafting more tedious and mind-numbing??

[Snowdonia Honeythorn]

I've gotta wonder though. Why is it that metal is being treated like this. no other resource is treated this way. Why does TG, and AE before, feel the need to make metal such a PITA to make? Wood, gems, fabric, stone, clay, essence... ALL a single resource per tier to have to work with. I truly do not understand this mentality with metal. Metal should be just as simplified as the other resources and should stop being treated like it needs to be made so hard!

Make Steel Bars only need 2 Nickel and Iron Ores (1 resources type, just change the bloody nodes name)

Make Cobalt Bars only need 2 Cobalt and Nickel Ores (1 resource type, just change the bloody nodes name)

Leave Mithril ALONE!

Jeesh, I just don't get it. Of course the above is my ultimate dream and won't come true but again, if we HAVE to be forced to use alloys from different tiers from T3-T5 (OMG WTF are the gonna do about Adamantium?!) then I think it should be done as Gusi suggested...

And yes Sslz, I saw the Tarbash nerf as well. :/


Next thing you know it's going to take an Elm Log and 2 Maple Logs to make 1 Maple Board, an Unspun Cotton and 2 Unspun Silks to make 1 Silk Spool, a Glowing Essence and 2 Bright Essence to make 1 Bright Essence Orb, a Granite Slab and 2 Marble Slabs to make 1 Marble Slab, etc etc etc. Makes PERFECT sense doesn't it. They are afterall too easy to refine/work with only needing a single tiered resource type.

[Vlisson]

hmm crafting is always not really fun, gathering resouces is a pain but its ok, there is no other way

mithril has been a very unique metall resource till now and i wondered since mithril went live why its only 1 ore and not like steel/cobalt where you have to combine some ore

i think it has been not intended but AE/Tulga made this mistake to bring mithril live and hadnt the time to make it fit to the other metals

PS: why think always negative? steel/cobalt will be easier now, and all new or lower player will appreciate it (ok all we t5 chars will have some difficulties now added)