*decides to try and rant... um... effectively on a feature he wants to see one day*

[Swythe Quirksettle]

First of, all you who have a PC with lots of memory, and are a draggie, fly up over Dalimond and turn your view distnace to max and see what kind of detail this game could make when the devs actually get it optomized.

One thing is missing from the game I would absolutely love to see... Dragon Riding!
The potential of doubling the subscription base is amazing with this feature!

Pern fans from abound would get their arses up and subscribe, just to play a draggie rider or a draggie.
THe role-play of Dragon's and their Riders would be awsome! I can imagine some serious bonds being formed between some characters, if anyone ever read Eragon (haven't read anything else with dragon riding yet) you know what I mean!

Even better, a Dragon Rider school can be designed with some Air-to-Ground attack (they should all be weak though) for the rider.

And Dragons who get their um... (lacks a better term) mount skills should be able to tech themselves up with some awsome battle armor (not cheap scales, actual armor plating, of course there should be a penalty for such a thing.

Nowa system (I'm on lunch and have a few minutes left)

Been pondering a possible system for this, it involves a dragon's cargo capacity.

A dragon and its rider should combine used capacity values, because the said drake can ONLY carry its capacity. Upgrades can be made by making a *smacks hte RPers* saddle (like cargo armor).

The dragon is the driver, its in COMPLETE control of where it flies (forcing RP cooperation). The rider has the ability to cast minor spells and most of all use ranges weapons!

This will function like an F-15! A gunner and a pilot!

Now if the dragon dies, and the rider lives, the rider will simply fall off the dragon (obvious). However, a random delay can be thrown in to allow out the (it hink fun) effect of coming to reailise the dragon is going down.

Also, and Eject button!!

Making it work may be a problem, but I can see a lot of new subscribers out of this, of course I would have a blast having Swythe fly others around (and RP like he's doing crazy airs stunts).

Permiisions to mount a dragon can easily be thought out... A player requests to ride the dragon targeted with a simple right click. The dragon just clicks yes or no, and thats it!

[Swythe Quirksettle]

Its here because it won't promptly be heard anyway. Plus I'm a bad ranter. [:P]

[imported_Twelvebagger]

This rant is so bad I might write a rant about it.


Can we get this moved into suggestions, as it will get more replies there, and quite frankly it was fun to read?



-12-

[imported_Denrath]

Dragonlance has a LOT of dragon riding as well. And many times, the dragon and rider develop the bond you are talking about.

As for saddles, a back scale could easily do the job. May have a little armor to the saddle if it is made from leather (or Kwellen hides) and get a bonus for having a rider (cause a platemail butt would help keep you from being hit in the back. There would also have to be a claw though, call it a basket or something. There are a lot of Lunus who would not allow a biped on their back, but might carry one somewhere instead.

It is on the list of things they would like to do, but it is way down the list. And if I remember right, it was going to be completely dragon controlled. Dragon initiates the ride (asks) and decides when it is time for the rider to dismount. You wouldnt want the rider to be able to ask...just think of the plethora of yes/no boxes you would be going through while trying to play. It would get really old, really fast.

[Goriax]

I didn't know they planned on the dragon always doing the asking but now that you mention it I can see the reasoning. My dragon would be afraid to show his face anyplace where there were a lot of bipeds. Especially the first few weeks after the feature became live. Of course even so I may get overwhelmed by /tells asking for a ride. I'll manage.

I have always thought that dragon riding was an absolutley splended idea. For once dragons and bipeds can cooperate constructively in a way which emphasizes their differences. Instead of dragons trying to group up and act like oversized bipeds they can do something unique.

However, when implimenting it they have to keep in mind that some dragons find it demeaning. Therefore there can be no saddles or anything else that makes one think of the dragon as a dumb mount. He is not. He's as intelligent as the rider (probably more intelligent then some bipeds I've known). And yes, the DRAGON decides when and where to go. The most the rider can do is ask. Nicely.

There was one question I had. Would a hatchling be able to ride an adult or ancient? Think of it as the grown up giving the baby a piggyback ride.

I do think that the model for dragons and bipeds working together in HZ is indeed more along the lines of Pern -- everyone cooperating against a common foe and dragons are fairly common-- instead of other fantasies where the dragons may be at odds with the bipeds and/or very rare.

I really wish they'd give this higher priority.

[j-Xiti]

Good idea, however, Lunus Dragons would not like a biped on thier back..I'm sure this has been brought up before.[;)]

Also, weakened air-to-ground attacks don't make since. Attack strength should always be based on the attackers ability to do damage, not where they chose to attack. I see this a lot in PvP games -- players complaining that it's not fair when someone attacks them from a higher ground (In World of WarCraft this is called an exploit), or being able to attack while ridng or flying (an issue resolved in Star Wars Galaxies by not making it a feature at all).

In my opinion I strongly believe that air-to-graiund attacks and attacks that utilize the terrain or while riding mounts are what make rope play fun and exciting[:D], but there are some players who just can't fnd the defensive ground to stand on when being attacked in this matter -- so they say it's an exploit or it should be weakened, or it's not fair.

Well, I say it's a game and we should go back to having fun.[Y][Y]

But, really though, Dragons would not be to taken to being used as vehicles for bipeds. If the Istarian gods wanted bipeds to fly they have given them wings -- like the dryad. (Who I think should be able to fly higher).[;)]

Unless bipeds get a leveitate spell.[Y]

[Goriax]

Unfortunately, air to ground attacks are made to order for exploits. Unless they're willing to give every mob a ranged attack with a rangeat least as great as the greatest player attack which could be used while airborne (to keep players from hovering over the mob and blasting away for however long it takes to kill it) I doubt it should happen.

Air to air attacks are something else. Presumably if you're both airborne it can close and do all the kinds of things it could do if you were both on the ground. I would love to see aerial combat in HZ.

As for Lunus dragons carrying bipeds, I think that -- like any other RP aspects -- thatshould be up to theplayers involvedto decide. I can come up with all sorts of explanations. For example, in the Battle of Tazoon the Lunus dragons helped even though it was helping bipeds, simply because that was the greater threat. In extremis I can see a Lunus carrying a biped for similar reasons.

Basically, saying Lunus dragons shouldn't carry bipeds is along the same lines as saying Lunus dragons shouldn't group with bipeds. It's cutting out too much of the game to do that. If you're going to let Lunus associate with bipeds at all (such as grouping or being in a guild together) then you might as well let the Lunus dragons carry a biped.

[Swythe Quirksettle]

O.O Its been moved to suggestions, nice! Told ya I'm bad at ranting! :P

On the topic of saddles.
Ok, anyone here read Eragon?
Saphira (the dragon on the cover) has scales so strong that WITHOUT a saddle she would cut up the leg of a rider as it dismounts, the cuts are crippling too. I would imagine the same is true for Istarian dragons who have spiked scales. If so, then the dragon requires some method to allow the rider to safely mount it.

Those who are without the saddle are not rideable, due to safty hazards :P thats an easy way to tell who will want to carry around their freinds or not.

As for the dragon asking, thats better then the biped asking. Sounds good to me.

And the Air-to-Ground combat weakening.
That makes perfect sense! Think about the logic behind hitting a moving target. More effort would go into aim then into force. Especially with bows. Also, its even harder if you look at the fact that the dragon's back is constantly moving with its wingbeats and tail swaying.

To balance that weakening, perhaps only the weakened attack happens when on the dragon? Like a debuff.

Mobs having ranged attacks is not a bad idea, also, mobs who are being attacked by a biped on a drakes back should be able to asses if they can or cannot attack (and book it if its bad). If they stand at a disadvantage, they run, simple as that.

[Valornyx]

Since you do not have to be too far off the ground to prevent 90% of mobs hitting you, I can see no way they will allow air to ground combat. The only way to do it (as someone else suggested) is to give all mobs some kind of ranged attack - which is, quite frankly, silly.

Although this is one thing that I would like to see at some stage .. thedev resourcesrequired to make mounts and mountable dragons are better spent in other areas until they sort out some of the more serious issues. IMO

[imported_Denrath]

However, when implimenting it they have to keep in mind that some dragons find it demeaning. Therefore there can be no saddles or anything else that makes one think of the dragon as a dumb mount. He is not. He's as intelligent as the rider (probably more intelligent then some bipeds I've known).

That was why I brought up a saddle and a claw. Just because the dragon has a saddle, it does not mean the dragon is a "dumb mount." You can look at it from the point of Dragonlance too. Dragons werenumerous (during some of the early books), they just fought for different gods. They were hugely intelligent and good with melee and magic. But both the "good" and "evil" dragons would wear saddles from time to time. This was to help the rider during battle many times. It is a lot easier to stay mounted if you get hitwhen you are on a saddle.

[imported_Denrath]

And the Air-to-Ground combat weakening.
That makes perfect sense! Think about the logic behind hitting a moving target. More effort would go into aim then into force. Especially with bows. Also, its even harder if you look at the fact that the dragon's back is constantly moving with its wingbeats and tail swaying.

To balance that weakening, perhaps only the weakened attack happens when on the dragon? Like a debuff.

I am not sure I like the idea of weakening them, you would have to give dragons a reason to let abiped mount them, and bipeds a reason to mount. If you have 2 strong fighters working well in tandem, then you end up with an enemy to fear, not an enemy that is weaker than any single one together.

I liked the idea earlier about a new school for it, could call it Mounted XXX, where XXX could be magery, archery, or lancer (new weapon?). Give dragons Mounted Battle or something. This way, bipeds and dragons could work the skills together, and through practice of fighting with one another would become stronger. Would fit the roleplay a lot better. Fighting from a mount is a lot different than fighting on your own feet, or fighting with someone on your back is different than fighting on your own. Would need to learn it somewhere.

[David Bowman]

This might also belong in the Dragon section... since it has been registered as a suggestion, but is now moving into a discussion.

We've intended for the past 4 years to allow Dragons to, at their discretion, carry bipeds. Due to the art requirements (mounting, dismounting, riding, mounted-actions animations), and technology changes (positioning, actions& interface) required, it has not yet made it into the game. Will it? Eventually, but it is not yet off of the Pony List (tm). It is most probable that this would benefit from the next generation of client software.

On a personal level, I would love to have a friendship with someone that allowed me to trust them to carry me through the air across the ocean.

David Bowman

[Levity]

On a personal level, I would love to have a friendship with someone that allowed me to trust them to carry me through the air across the ocean.
David Bowman

It happens I do have at least one such friend *happy smile* and he is positively salivating for the chance to give people rides for "real" rather than just in RP.

But I am intrigued: suggesting you would need to trust the flyer implies that they *could* indeed dump you over the ocean at will. Nifty [:D].

That's when quick recall reflexes will come in handy. I know that I tested at the Rainbow Bridge and by hitting the recall the moment I jumped I finished recalling before I ran out of air. It was a bit disappointing, though, falling through water as if it were air -- just WHAM I was on the bottom and the recall purple was rising up.

On the other hand, jumping off the mage tower has given me many seconds of free fall. So if a Dragon took you high enough, you could thrill jump even over water, lol.

As to saddles, I don't see the problem. They would not be a dominance thing, they would be practical. I mean, after all, if you are carrying someone do you really want to be moving all tensely so they don't slip off? It would be like carrying your textbooks balanced on your head rather than secured in a backpack.

Though naturally the dragon should have a one-pull quick release strap to dump the saddle (i.e. unequip it) at will, rider or no .. *laughs*.

-Levity Merrel

[Swythe Quirksettle]

Well the idea of trust would be simple to understand. As a wingalinged dragon, if I allowed everyone to ride me, how do I know that someone would jab a dagger into my neck or not while I fly them over the ocean?
Its like letting everyone you see on the side of the road ride in your car. [:P]

On a more interesting note.
Dragon riding may allow something like a (breakable) bonding between a rider and a dragon to help enforce the idea of trust between the dragon rider and the dragon.

An item can be traded between them to allow this to happen.
An example.
(Lets assume the object the dragon shares with its rider is a ring.)
Dragon gets its ring somehow (A level-based quest series perhaps like training).
This ring is magically linked to the dragon, and if its deleted (in any way) it will reappear good as new in the dragon's inventory.
The dragon cannot equip it, but can give it to a trusted biped, this biped must be in the dragon rider school.
What does the ring do?
It will allow the biped, within a close proximity to the bonded dragon to recieve a buff that increases some stats.
The ring may be improved, as the dragon grows it can take quests to improve the ring.
Now if this bond is broken, the dragon may request for the ring to be quickly reformed, and the ring the biped is wearing becomes useless.

Few problems I see, the ring may be an expliot, where a dragon would get it back, and use it again on anouther biped. (A high fee or a quest to debond the ring might make this expliot harder).

[C`gan]

Tagath and I are all for it. Tagath has stated several times I'm to be the first one to ride him and I'm to ride NO dragon before him.

Sign me up for Dragonrider (adventure class, I'm certain). It'd go well with my Warrior levels.

[Goriax]

On the other hand, jumping off the mage tower has given me many seconds of free fall. So if a Dragon took you high enough, you could thrill jump even over water, lol.
-Levity Merrel

Dragon's can't fly nearly as high as the top of the towers. Maybe ancients will be able to but adults sure can't.

Yes there will be a certain element of trust but keep it in perspective. Any time you group up with someone and go into a dangerous place you're trusting them to not do anything stupid to get you killed and to do their job. You're trusting the healer to heal, the tanks to tank, etc. This is just one more area so yea, you're taking a risk to hitch a ride with some strange dragon you don't know; just like you're taking a risk to join a pickup group to go into a really dangerous area.

I will be happy to give someone I know a ride (besides, it gives my dragon a chance to show off a bit and show he's not just an oversized biped). But I'm not carrying any bozo off the street.

[Ariadne]

Would it make a difference if the dragon in question was Helian or Lunus?

Isn't one of the races seriously against co-operation with bipeds :P

just my 2p, I love the idea!

[oluviel]

hmmm i don't want to carry bipeds i want to carry other dragons now that would be funky looking

[Goriax]

Would it make a difference if the dragon in question was Helian or Lunus?

Isn't one of the races seriously against co-operation with bipeds [img]/Web/emoticons/emotion-4.gif[/img]

just my 2p, I love the idea!

As I said above, RP stuff like that should be decided by the players. It's easy to come up with a rationale whya Lunus might do something with a biped. For example, it's well known that the Lunus helped out in the Battle of Tazoon even though it required they work with bipeds. The Withered Aegis were the greater evil.

If you think the Lunus shouldn't give bipeds rides then presumably they also shouldn't group with bipeds or be in a guild with bipeds. It makes no sense to not allow one yet allow the others. However that just limits things too much so players have to look the other way or come up with a rationalization (which isn't hard if you're halfway imaginative).