THE GREAT CRAFT CHANGE (From Herald)

[Senkeleron Fell]

It is one thing to say 'smelting XP is lower' but quite another thing to spout numbers as high as 1/3 and not be able to back them up. You want to talk real numbers you better have info to back your statements. This subject is already explosive enough without inflated statistics.

[Hal`cyon Sskyler]

Are you paying attention Death? That experience isn't going to go away. The base experience values for things like scales and spells will be increased manually by a developer to make up for the lack of raw resource processing? How can you miss the point so many times?

[Death-knell]

It is one thing to say 'smelting XP is lower' but quite another thing to spout numbers as high as 1/3 and not be able to back them up. You want to talk real numbers you better have info to back your statements. This subject is already explosive enough without inflated statistics.

I was only responding to someone that said the loss of smelting XP wouldn't be significant. I was just giving a raw example that IF it went away it would be a significant loss. Thats all I was doing.

The new system is suppose to accomodate for that loss, but thabove part of the conversation was before we both understood that.

[Senkeleron Fell]

I don't care who you were responding to, I want to see you justify 1/3 drop in XP.

[Death-knell]

I don't care who you were responding to, I want to see you justify 1/3 drop in XP.

Well smelting netted 37K. Making scales...after con/decon till I was unable to make anymore netted me 88K+change. No thats not a third, but I was just ballparking.

[Senkeleron Fell]

[img]/Web/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Senkeleron Fell wrote:I don't care who you were responding to, I want to see you justify 1/3 drop in XP.


Well smelting netted 37K. Making scales...after con/decon till I was unable to make anymore netted me 88K+change. No thats not a third, but I was just ballparking.

So if they raise the XP for crafting each scale by a 'ballpark' third, that would completely eliminate your lost smelting xp?

I'm curious as to your proficiency at making the scales, are you close to 100% with the scale you are making and deconstructing?

[imported_Ssilmath]

Ok Death, let me break it down nice and simple for you, using your numbers....

Smelting gives you 37k...making scales and deconing them nets you 51k...

Total XP is 88k

New system...

Smelting gives you 0...making scales and deconning them nets you 88k...

No change at all to your XP gain

However, I cannot use smelting mithril (Which I am optimum at) to powerlevel jeweler to level 50 in a couple hours...what I have to do is go back to tier I and actually (Gasp) do jeweler stuff...

A welcome change (And yes, if it happened to everyone, I would drop all of my crafts back to 0 and start over again, maybe we'd see some craft specialization)

[Phillip]

this thread reminds me of the few others back in the days when we discussed the conceptual basis (or lack thereof)about Hoardleaks, groups XPs, item tricking, economyto the modern Blighted Equipment, Anchors, new group XPs (part 22, patch 6), economy, etc etc....

those who oppose certain future implementations will always get shouted down by the oposition...wait, hey wait a minute....that's what happened in beta, too.

hmm...

nm.

[Bori Grimbattle]

And out of the smoke and confusion comes a statement of clarity. Out of Ssilmath of all people. Who would have thunk it.[:D]

Well put Ssilmath. As far as the whole change goes I am content to wait and see what falls out of it before jumping to conclusions and throwing around meaningless numbers.

[Bulgrim StoneCleaver]

Agreed Bori and Ssilmath. I'll wait and see the changes to experience - if I feel its not done right, I promise I'll squeal like a stuck pig - in game, on the forums, in irc and PM's. Right now, its not warranted - its just hysteria and ranting for the most part.

Bulgrim

[Doombreak]

if all this goes ahead and i will be able to adfjust to all this to make things maybe a bit easier it might b an idea to put anvils and stuff back in the field where they were removed from at least

[Bulgrim StoneCleaver]

that's a good suggestion Doom - and probably has some good merits/reasons in my own mind. We know why it was removed, if they do the changes that they are talking about, there's no reason to maybe add some of those back.

Bulgrim

[Doombreak]

maybe additional mithril nodes maybe on the fire isle, ice isle and maybe some gem node sin the cnayons west of harro..then this makes lvling jeweler using the new method a lot easy and pain free than gathering gems on ice recalling then porting to tazoon => harro or where eva then out to the mithril field witht he lag as it is for me and others now i couldnt take too much of that b4 my comp just doesnt like it anymore

[Aamer Khan]

Galem...

In answer to your questions...

What would my levels have to do with it, since I keep any skills I have currently with the new change? I am currently lvl 100 arm/blk/tnk/crp/fit and 76 mason, 66 gth, 52 alch, and a few others under 60.

Why would I wipe anything out? The change does not require it and nobody is suggestion any such thing... What is your point exactly?

I am in no focus group, nor would/should they let any poster as public as I in one.

[Death-knell]

[img]/Web/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Death-Knell wrote: [img]/Web/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Senkeleron Fell wrote: I don't care who you were responding to, I want to see you justify 1/3 drop in XP.


Well smelting netted 37K. Making scales...after con/decon till I was unable to make anymore netted me 88K+change. No thats not a third, but I was just ballparking.

So if they raise the XP for crafting each scale by a 'ballpark' third, that would completely eliminate your lost smelting xp?

I'm curious as to your proficiency at making the scales, are you close to 100% with the scale you are making and deconstructing?

yeppers, that would do it. And yes, I wear just enough crafting scales to be at 100% , well or a little bit over.

[kengar]

evidently your not paying attention. Players have gone onto blight and done XP tests versus whats live now. There is 1/3 drop in XP.

Apples and Oranges. NONE of this proposal has made it to blight, to the best of my knowledge. In fact, I've seen nothing to indicate that it will be coming to blight soon. The testing that has been done has been to test the affects of the change in the mithril formula, which has gone to blight. So any testing done on blight is irrelevant to this proposal.

If they double the XP for finished products when they push this change to blight, then it will roughly balance out according to most of the numbers shown here.

[Smeglor]

Perhaps I should have been clearer that this change is still in the research & development phase. Which skills are primary is not finalized, and research into the changes to experienceneeded for all craft schools has only just begun.

We know there's a lot that has to be done for this adjustment to be positive and not negative and will do everything possible to make sure no school gets left behind.

On a side note, it coincides well with the upcoming confectioner changes, as that requires a revisit to all confectioner formula (and the creation of new ones)anyway.This way we can make one pass for both purposes.

[Seranthor]

Perhaps I should have been clearer that this change is still in the research & development phase. Which skills are primary is not finalized, and research into the changes to experienceneeded for all craft schools has only just begun.

We know there's a lot that has to be done for this adjustment to be positive and not negative and will do everything possible to make sure no school gets left behind.

On a side note, it coincides well with the upcoming confectioner changes, as that requires a revisit to all confectioner formula (and the creation of new ones)anyway.This way we can make one pass for both purposes.

And your still on track to finally finish the CNFs by the end of August (being very generous in this timeframe)? or has thatagain been pushed back further into the future?

[Jayne]

EXCELLENT!!!

Jayne

[Nalrach]

Fifth: Why don't you do some research on this first before getting your panties in a bunch.

Reasearch ... your joking. This was the first time this subject was presented to the entire communauty. And no I do not have the time to read all the individual shard forums. If it was discussed, it was in the Chaos shard forums.Or in one ofthose IRC chat that happend at fancy hours. As to getting my panties in a bunch, since this is the first time I see the post .. I feel my rigths to express my feeling. All I can answer is to what I can read. All your items 1 to4 was not in the post that the herald publish about your commission proposal, and the Heral let make believed that this was a change consider by the devs. And if I look four page off comments, a lot of people have thing to say.. which I will read, but I had to reply to your agressive remark first.



Now with this over, three things you mention I want to comment.

As to the quest from trainer's I strongly doubt that we will see some rewards that worth the waste of time to travel back and forth from resources to trainer. (Which I recently tried with my newly acquired skill of fitter thinking with lates changed it had to be better way to train) As record's show, it has not been Tulga policies to have trainer quest worth the trouble to do them. The XP stink, the click get, do, click get reward and reclick to get again and again is a waste of time, plus passing trought the dum long conversation is after the first time a watse. I for one don't appreciate or participate in the trainer reward quest. Their is far better xp to be made by treathing raw resources and tools then doing the trainer quest.

As to seeing better xp for placing resources on construction (or making items) orthe issue it was not normal to have no xp for construction work, but still get xp for treathing raw resources .. this was talked a year and half ago, and AE then Tulga have not done anything with the issue.

As to "make no xp" on gathering and making "step one items", I simply don't agree with "the no xp policies". The time you pass making the base resource you require should be rewarded. But I agree that it's should not be the main xp of the total work. Which rigth now represent 75-100% of the xp. It should be 25% of the total xp, and the rest according to the crafte skill (ie construction 35% on making the units and 40 on applying)