Discussion: New-player Chat

[imported_asteral]

**Rant portion**
Some of you may have either heard about, or been involved with, a few incidents which have occured on the new-player line that have resulted in several newbies being driven from the line and the general nature of the line itself disrupted. This is NOT acceptable!

It seems that most of the incidents have arisen from roleplaying differences/enforcement. The New-Player channel is NOT roleplay enforced. It is ment to help new players with game mechanics, interface issues ect. Not for roleplaying.

Some people choose not to get out of character in game. That is fine. But do not get upset and angry when people choose not to roleplay back when you are in this channel. I ask that you respect the new players and their questions and do not get hostile, rude or just down right mean about it.


**Discusion portion!!!**
I wish some feedback from the community reguarding ways to help combat these problems. As I myself cannot always be here to "babysit" the room and make sure everyone behaves. And as it is a public TG botted line there is absolutely no way to remove the offending person unless they areasked, andvoluntarily leave. And by that time it is often to late and the damage has been done.

Creating a player-made room has been discussed, andabandoned. Seeing as how we would have the same issues, or the possiblity of the offender being the only mod in the room. Which would be bad.

So I ask of the community this, suggestions, ideas something!! Other than trying to politely ask the person causing the problems to stop i don't really see any other way around this.

**Part II**

I would also ask that nominations be taken for a new co-team leader, as Frisco has been missing for over a month now. I will start a new thread for the nominations/discussion thereof. The vote will be held at the next possible meeting, with the new leader to take"office" after.

[imported_Frith-Rae]

Sorry to hear this Asteral :(, though I hate to say it Zideon has technically only desginated General as OOC - but I'm as mad about that as you could be - since I directly bounced back with "What about Dragon an New Player Chat" which were never acknolwedged....*sighs and continues to softly grumble*

But I agree with you, New Player CHannel it would seem to be OBVIOUS its there to help new players, and that can't always be done in "only IC terms without discussion of game mechanics" :).

But yea, other than trying to politely ask them to either stop the harrssment, or just talk in behind them explaining in OOC terms what they are explaining..not sure what you can do. Oh well you can report them directly to Zideon, he has said that. Though if he's following the line that New Player Chat can't be OOC...that may not get you anywhere. Or maybe it would get notice that this needs to be designated NOT IC :).

But yea...all I think we can do is ask nicely, or explain it to them nicely as in "You can stay IC but realize that this is also a room for OOC questions and answers for new players who need help" as I try to keep doign in Dragon chat myself.

And yea...Frisco does that. He's always done that. You can PM me in game if you need to vent ;).

[imported_Denrath]

Interesting...I wonder WHY Order has 1/4 the population of Chaos... [*-)]

I would say if you have logs of this, and it is the same person/people every time, save them up and send them to Zideon. Depending on how confrontational they are getting, it could be bordering harassment. Sorry, but harassment policy HAS to trump RP policy. There is no way we can keep getting new players if they are being run off by a few die hards.

And Frith, I have yet to see anyone try to "enforce" the RP policy on the Dragon channel when it came to questions and such. I think if anyone did, those that are willing to help would just ignore the person and go on helping the hatchling.

[Tokoz]

Thought it was in the logs, but I'm afraid it was in a private tell to me, which leaves it on my word, unless Zideon wants to make a guest appearance and confirm. It was also told to another player and when I remember the name... serious RPer... I remember that...

Zideon has stated to me though, that New Player is also an /ooc channel. I'm not afraid to make that statement and make suggestions accordingly...

I'm working the mod status issue in New Player. TG has acknowledged the existance of the team and at one point it was offered to give the leads mod status, but it would have to be granted by a dev (and the person not log off until another responsible person comes on or something...) With how busy things have been though, it's been hard to find a set way to take care of this.

Order is a small shard, this is to our advantage. Ticking off key people in the community can have long reaching effects.

And yes, like Denrath said, harrassment is harassment, I'm sorry even if you want to try and call it RP, it's still harassment. Logs should be taken and sent to a CSR through tech support.

[StalothHoard]

I have one suggestion that would make the channels MUCH more friendly to new players.

When you join a channel, it should display a "message of the day" in the window. This should be customizable for player created channels, and for official channels it would let the admins state exactly what the channel was for.

I think most customer experiences go like this. Download/Install the game. Run it. Create a character. Explore.

Going through the web pages, digging up a pdf role-playing guide, reading and understanding it before you even know how to play the game is just not going to happen for the majority of players. The information about what is expected and hints and tips on what to do where should be PROMINENTLY and REPEATEDLY shown to all players. Only a small percentage of any game community will read and keep current with the games web site and message boards.

[imported_Ssilmath]

Is this about me using Ssil speak in New Player? If so, then the person who complained needs to grow up...It may not be RP enforced, but it isn't RP banned either...Another player and I were chatting back and forth, but were not disrupting things, as there was nothing going on...Sorry for my blatant use of RP on an RP shard...I suppose this means I shouldn't use it in General either...

[imported_Denrath]

Reading the complain, I doubt it would be simple use of RP SSilmath. Use of RP can get others to join in which is good on an RP shard. The difference is when people start saying "You are not Roleplaying and this is a roleplay shard. You MUST roleplay here" even though roleplay would not allow for the new person to get the answer they may need. In my mind, there is a very definite difference.

[Tantalyr]

No, Ssilmath, I imagine this thread arises from a rather nasty incident I had the displeasure of witnessing in New Player channel when Player Who Shall Remain Nameless actually ranted at a brand new player in the channel--who, as the channel is intended, was seeking advice and information--for NOT roleplaying in a very snotty way.

Roleplaying in the New Player channel is perfectly fine. Ragging others for not roleplaying in this OOC channel is not.

[imported_Leannae]

I can't imagine anyone complaining about a NEW player who is just learning the ropes. I know it wasn't myself or any of Bori/Sinistre's characters... we haven't had the chance to log-in for nearly 2 weeks now.

<mutters darkly about jobs, travel and crappy hotel connections>

As to suggestions for babysitting chat channnels... That's a hard one. Tulga doesn't want to give admin/mod status to a player due to the downfalls of other MMORPG's where power (even virtual) went to their heads. All you can do is follow the guidelines given to us, log it, screen shot it and report it, then let Zideon handle it. Even private /tells can be used as proof. They are all kept within the chat logs.

It's hard to not want to snap back at the person who is acting that way, but you have to be as polite as possible, save you become as guilty as the offender. <shrugs>

[Tantalyr]

Nope, the idiocy I posted of was by someone I rarely, if ever, see on these boards. Those wishing to know the person's character can PM me if they wish, as I do not wish to start ageneral witch hunt on these boards.

[imported_asteral]

No Ssil the offense had nothing to do with you. Roleplaying in that chanel is fine, as long as you respect the rights of people who wish to use it OOC. The issue Tanalyr are speaking about *which i'm almost positive its the same one* Was one where a newbie was badgered and harassed about not roleplaying on a roleplay shard when he asked for help. The offender was NOT a new player, and it seems from what i've heard, not an isolated incident.

A few other people i've seen get up at arms when roleplay is mentioned on the line as well. Onetime we made mention to someone the reason behind some dragons disliking bipeds, and the reasons you shouldn't take the "cold shoulder" or threats as to being eaten, personally, and one person in there got rather crappy about how we shouldn't be telling other people how to roleplay and whatnot. Made quite the display of telling ustheir ENTIRE background in the roleplay business, eventually got fed up with us and stormed off the line in a huff....the newbie we were trying to explain things to felt pretty bad to say the least. Even though it was not his fault.

I mean honestly people is it so hard to just let that kind of thing brush off your shoulders.? Some people seem to just, have issues with it. It IS a place to discuss all aspects of the game with new players. Telling someone the lore behind dragons dislike of bipeds is hardly telling someone how they need to roleplay. I'm still a bit confused as to why that entire incident went down....

And don't get me wrong. I believe roleplay needs to start being enforced. We just need to make it clear to everyone who either A.) Doesn't read the forums, or B.) Doesn't read the PDF on the roleplay rules, which rooms are enforced and which are not! Because nowhere in the roleplay rules does it state that New-player and Help and General are OOC, but its been stated several times by Zideon that they are. So it is a bit confusing, which i can imagine has added to a few of the problems we have been seeing. But that is a discussion for another thread I think.

[imported_Leannae]

We just need to make it clear to everyone who either A.) Doesn't read the forums, or B.) Doesn't read the PDF on the roleplay rules, which rooms are enforced and which are not! Because nowhere in the roleplay rules does it state that New-player and Help and General are OOC, but its been stated several times by Zideon that they are.

I was going to say something about that. If theycould only put a welcome message in a channel so when you join it, (each time, including log-ins) it automatically states... "Welcome to New-Player Channel (OOC) Out Of Character experience" or something along those lines, there would be no questions. Many people don't even have the slightest clue as to what OOC means, so you'd have to type out the full Out Of Character for them.

A link on the main page listing which channels are and are not OOC would at least give some type of reference you can send people to. If possible, even a small blurb during character creation would help. It's not like there are several channels that need to be listed, only theofficial OOC channels.

Confusion can't come if it's clarified.

[imported_Denrath]

Confusion can't come if it's clarified.

You would be surprised. Just because it is spelled out in one tab doesnt mean people will look at that. That is how people are. No matter how well you spell it out, there are still going to be people who completely miss it. Yes, some sort of message would help the situation some...but I have the feeling that more often than not...the message would get ignored.

[imported_Leannae]

Yes, some sort of message would help the situation some...but I have the feeling that more often than not...the message would get ignored.

Sad but true..

At least there would be some form of official word that can be used as reference vs the current of "WM ZXY said it was." I can't begin to count how many times, people will argue that point because it's not in type. Saying it on the forums isn't enough either, ran across that one too... "It's not on the log-in page, thus it does not exist as official."

[Bori Grimbattle]

Whether it is new player,marketplace or any other channel that is rp or rp/ooc mixed and I am in character, the character I am playing at the time will determine whether or not he is mean and nasty or nice and kind and NOT what others EXPECT I should be.

That being the point, with new characters I have always made it a point to go to a tell and explain my character is role playing only and if I can offer any help just shoot me a tell. I have found that most of my problems do not come from the new players but rather from the established players who have a tendancy to jump to conclusions. In fact, only once was I ever approached by a new player for being nasty and that was before I spoke to him in tells. It happens everyday from the established players.

Now the person in question who was berating someone for not role playing, if he/she was doing that openly in the channel, is being hypocritical to say the least as you cannot chastise anyone for not role playing if you do not step out of character yourself. That was wrong.

To expect anybody to change their style of RP because a person is new is also wrong. I may be nasty in open chat with my characters depending on what race he is relataing with but that does not tell you what is happening behind the scene in tells.

[Jayne]

No, laying a disclaimer out in front of someones face doesn't prevent it from happening. This is sad. First we have folks debating what is RP, enforcement, and such. Now a new player obviously in a chat that is open discussion gets badgered about not roleplaying!

I think some people really need to grow up. I swear, I have to wonder what motivates people. It really seems there are some out there doing everything they can to end Horizons.

Jayne

[Zideon Locke]

New PLayer channel is OOC due to it's status as a tool to help new players. Of course RP is welcome in there but not required. Badgering those not RPing in the channel is not permitted. Thanks

[imported_Leannae]

Unfortunately, as (at least) Ihave seen, you saying it's OOC here on the forums doesn't mean much Zideon. Not that I am disrespecting your position but there are others who have bluntly said, "It's not written in the policy, so it doesn't apply to me" and when directed to threads where is has been stated by you, they choose to ignore it.

[Tokoz]

Unfortunately, as (at least) Ihave seen, you saying it's OOC here on the forums doesn't mean much Zideon. Not that I am disrespecting your position but there are others who have bluntly said, "It's not written in the policy, so it doesn't apply to me" and when directed to threads where is has been stated by you, they choose to ignore it.

Then take the log and report them. Very simple. That's what he's asked us to do.

[imported_Leannae]

I'm aware of that...

It's been that way since the beginning of time... besides, I told the poster of this thread the same thing ^^^ up there. [;)]

I was only making Zideon aware of what type of resistance I've been met with when trying to make his (or any world master who I've had the pleasure of working with) wishes known.