Novian Resources

[Machivelli]

Define many? I've not heard of a single one mentioned. In fact I only know of one person that was going around selling Novians, and he's the farthest thing from an "Exploiter".

And yes Nim, almost every night. I can build just about anything I need all by myself, or with the assistance of one or two guildies ... just like 90% of our fellow players. The const biz has not been jumping since right after the new plots opened up after merger.

[Brassandyn]

Buying a plot and salvaging the buildings is not an exploit.

In the world, there are two ways to get resources: You make them, or you buy them. These resources are being taken off plots of players who have left the game. They are not "community" property. They would eventually be removed at some point by a new owner who would stay on the property. I know of few people who wouldn't want to redesign their new plot.

Think of it as urban renewal.

[Alanide Syris]

It is exploitation in the regards we are talking about. These people are buying, raping for novians, leaving dust behind, and selling the novians to profit from effort that was never theirs to begin with all the while destroying valubale structures that were being used. nough said

[Senkeleron Fell]

Buying a plot and salvaging the buildings is not an exploit.

In the world, there are two ways to get resources: You make them, or you buy them. These resources are being taken off plots of players who have left the game. They are not "community" property. They would eventually be removed at some point by a new owner who would stay on the property. I know of few people who wouldn't want to redesign their new plot.

Think of it as urban renewal.

That is exactly the way a slum lord thinks as he takes money out of one neighborhood to use it to build up property somewhere else. That kind of thinking in the real world is how the government is stealing land under the guise of imminent domain. Destroying plots in one "neighborhood" to build things in another is not going to gain you friends. Most of us consider it an exploitation of the community, if not an actual game exploit.

[Brassandyn]

[img]/Web/Themes/default/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Brassandyn wrote: Buying a plot and salvaging the buildings is not an exploit.

In the world, there are two ways to get resources: You make them, or you buy them. These resources are being taken off plots of players who have left the game. They are not "community" property. They would eventually be removed at some point by a new owner who would stay on the property. I know of few people who wouldn't want to redesign their new plot.

Think of it as urban renewal.


That is exactly the way a slum lord thinks as he takes money out of one neighborhood to use it to build up property somewhere else. That kind of thinking in the real world is how the government is stealing land under the guise of imminent domain. Destroying plots in one "neighborhood" to build things in another is not going to gain you friends. Most of us consider it an exploitation of the community, if not an actual game exploit.

You're sort of missing my point. These properties are for sale. In any real world situation where there is something of value for sale, someone is going to step up and buy it. The people who let the community down are not the buyers, but the people who left the game (for whatever reason) and did not pass these plots on to other members of the community.

If the plots are important to the community, that community should get together and find a way to preserve the plot and it's buildings.

I do agree, however, that people who raze plots to "sell" the Novians, while not doing anything illegal, are lower than the low. I used all the Novians from my four plots to rebuilt in a new location, and I purchased one plot (with nearly identical buildings and in a nearly deserted community) to claim some novians and finish my new plots to a point where they are useful again.

As long as the Novians are used to build, I see no problem. If you want to protect your investment in a community, get out there and find someone to join you and invest that player with the property. If it's that important. Blaming others is pointless.

[Senkeleron Fell]

Ah, but the novians the 'lower than the low' person is selling are going to be used to build somewhere, so how is that different? I don't have any problem at all with someone raising their own plot so they can go build somewhere else, or improve another plot they have somewhere. The 'lower than low' people are the ones that go around looking for a plot to buy just so they can raise it to the ground and take the novians.

[Brassandyn]

You're still not addressing my point. If these buildings are important to the community they are in, why isn't the community doing something to protect them. Most have been for sale for weeks (or months).

[imported_tjl]

You're still not addressing my point. If these buildings are important to the community they are in, why isn't the community doing something to protect them. Most have been for sale for weeks (or months).

well they did not need to protect them until this whole novian business came along. useful, and long since abandoned plots just sat there... and no one bought them because there was nothing to gain from buying them (other than owning the plot). They served their purpose without owners.

Then came the deconstruction and novians... so now communites need to activly battle the novian locusts or loose what they have been enjoying for months.

[Machivelli]

Then came the deconstruction and novians... so now communites need to activly battle the novian locusts or loose what they have been enjoying for months.

Loose what they have been enjoying for months. That?s the point that most are trying to make, but are doing it in a ?I?m not selfish and this is not about me? way. But it is about you or you wouldn?t care if the plot next to yours with the shops/vault/storage went down. A shop/vault/storage that maybe you didn?t build because you saw your neighbor already had it. If you contain the argument to this fact alone then you?ve won hands down. Who could argue against the limited scope of ?Mine or the Communities Loss?. If however you add the fact that 80%+ of the people that are angrily shaking their fist (that?s kind of awkward to say :p) at the looters (and at me right now for not laying down and staying quiet ? you know you?re doing it ;)), made no contribution to the plot or the structure that got razed. Sure maybe you placed a few of this and a few of that, but did you really put in enough work to lay claim to the entire plot? There are the rare exceptions where someone did do almost all the work for their neighbor, though usually they called them guildie. The majority did nothing to help build the shop, but they did enjoy the benefits of the shop. So if you did nothing to build the shop then how do you have any more right to the plot then the person that bought it for the intent of razing it? Not a popular opinion for sure and by all means this is going to enrage some people. But it?s the truth, the brutally honest truth. If the Plat mine near Wolfs Paw was razed tomorrow there would be 12-15 people on all of Chaos that would truly have reason to shout. The rest that are using it loose nothing but a resource that others built for them. If my neighbor were to take down all of the shops on their plot, I couldn?t say a word about it. I?ve not contributed one brick bar or board to it. If the person puts the plot up for sale, or leaves the game and the plot gets bought by another, they are entitled to do with the plot as they see fit, even if that means razing it. Is it fair? In reality, yes it is. Is it going to make you new friends, well, only if it?s the kind of friends that wish and pray for your demise. :p

[Alanide Syris]

Pfft- this game is about community, and razing plots to sell novians for profit is not acceptable, and your argument falls dead :) First off, the novians were never intended to be used for profit, that's why they were attuned :) The fact that people found a way around that only enforces the fact that people are people and there will always be those that are selfish and self serving:( And, to fact that they have the right to do this - it may not be able to be said that it is against the rules, but it was definately not meant to be able to be done. So, there :) And, I still think you are ok "Guildie", but I suspect you are saying this out of defending a certain guild leader that offered us the novian placement on our plots :)
Have a great day :)

[Machivelli]

Actually not in defense of him per se. Though I seriously doubt anyone here would ever suggest he was an exploiter. More about the fact that people are reacting to this in such a way that they think even those that have done all the work should be penalized.

If this game was truly about community then everyone would have answered the call to build the Mine, Bridge or outpost. But they didn?t did they? They were off doing their own thing that either helped themselves or their friends/guildies. Nothing wrong with that, just don?t be the solo self serving person and then use the argument it?s hurting the ?Community? when something that is not yours is taken away from you.

What if the person razed their own plot or plots. Ones they built and paid for themselves. It is their right to raze the buildings and sell the novians to any willing buyer ... is it not? Lumping all people together like that is not only dangerous, its a bit foolhardy. ;) And yes you're still a good guildie too, even if you are misguided at times ....you canblame your GL for that .... :p

[Alanide Syris]

LOL- you are just lucky I am a good natured guy :) And to answer you- no, it was not their right to "sell" their Novians, that was what the attunement was supposed to prevent :) Just because they found a way around it does not justify it :) That would be kinda like saying that if a bank left it's doors and vault open after hours by mistake, that makes it ok to pillage it :)

Once again, just my humble opinion :)
Have a great day

[Machivelli]

Bank and pillage eh. So, there are laws set up that say if you take money from a bank, business or another person that does not belong to you its considered stealing. There is a well defined law/rule that says even if the doors are left open to the vault it?s a crime to take the contents. Novians on the other hand were set to attuned so they would not be physically sold from one player to another the way they were after merger ? that?s an assumption of course since I?ve never read the exact reason behind it. Being tagged attuned does not prevent sale on other items, the new weapons and jewelry are all attuned, yet they can be sold up until you equip them. If Tulga really wanted to prevent people from selling them, wouldn?t you think there would have been a post about it? Something that would go into detail about why they don?t want people selling novians in any form.

Maybe I missed a post about this. Did they explicitly say they did not want people to sell the novians to others by any means? If I did then please link the post where someone from Tulga made this statement. If they didn?t then there is no rule/law being broken here. Which makes your selling novians = felony logic null and void. ;)

[imported_tjl]

Maybe I missed a post about this. Did they explicitly say they did not want people to sell the novians to others by any means? If I did then please link the post where someone from Tulga made this statement. If they didn?t then there is no rule/law being broken here. Which makes your selling novians = felony logic null and void. [img]/Web/emoticons/emotion-5.gif[/img]

http://community.istaria.com/Web/Sho...x?PostID=82317

from that thread, Smeglor said this:

[...] First, while they used to be almost completely bulkless, now they have 1/10 the bulk of a normal construction resource. Also, they cannot be traded and are attuned to their owner in such a way that they can only be used in the construction of buildings on their owner's plot.

Now that does not totally pass the "by any means" test, but I think that is a clear enough quote to say they do not want them being sold.

http://community.istaria.com/Web/Sho...x?PostID=64172

The most likely re-emergance of Novian Resources will be as salvage given when deleting (deconstructing) a structure. This will make moving structures on a plot, upgrading structures, or upgrading plots more viable. However, they will be Attuned, and therefore untradeable. The details are still being discussed, we'll give more information once things are ironed out more.

[Alanide Syris]

Thanx for the research :) Sometimes my guildie just needs it smacked upside his head :0 LOL. But, no harm no foul, we are all entitled to our opinions :)

Have a great day :)

[Crazyfingers]

Its an exploit. A player with one account cannot do this. If its not an exploit, make novians no longer attuned. Then everyone can enjoy this new feature.

NimKhazad

[Machivelli]

[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Machivelli wrote: Maybe I missed a post about this. Did they explicitly say they did not want people to sell the novians to others by any means? If I did then please link the post where someone from Tulga made this statement. If they didn?t then there is no rule/law being broken here. Which makes your selling novians = felony logic null and void. [img]/Web/emoticons/emotion-5.gif[/img]

http://community.istaria.com/Web/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=82317

from that thread, Smeglor said this:
[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Smeglor wrote: [...] First, while they used to be almost completely bulkless, now they have 1/10 the bulk of a normal construction resource. Also, they cannot be traded and are attuned to their owner in such a way that they can only be used in the construction of buildings on their owner's plot.

Now that does not totally pass the "by any means" test, but I think that is a clear enough quote to say they do not want them being sold.

http://community.istaria.com/Web/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=64172
[img]/Web/Themes/Generic/images/icon-quote.gif[/img]Smeglor wrote: The most likely re-emergance of Novian Resources will be as salvage given when deleting (deconstructing) a structure. This will make moving structures on a plot, upgrading structures, or upgrading plots more viable. However, they will be Attuned, and therefore untradeable. The details are still being discussed, we'll give more information once things are ironed out more.

Being sold in MP or person to person yes. We all remember what happened with the novian market after merger. And yes it come no where close to the "By any means" statement I made.

On a side note, after this morning I see why some people are up in arms about this. You were personally wronged by someone who did the "looting". Sad thing is, over reacting to something like this will only cause others to be wronged. Others that had nothing to do with your situation. Granted most of you won't care about this since it more than likely won'taffect you.

[Snowdonia Honeythorn]

I cannot WAIT for this. I hope I can cross resource (down)upgrade as well. I've recently moved plots and am sitting on HEAPS of novians I will never use in my new plot set up. I want my vault space back! *whine*

[Finn of Spirit]

Hi ho,

I'm with you Snowdonia. I suggested this here long ago in this post:

http://community.istaria.com/Web/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=26003

and I'm very glad to see it happening. Not thrilled about having to schlep it to the gypsies and pay to make it happen, but it's hopefully not going to be too expensive.

-Finn

[Jayne]

Well I think its a good idea to be able to step up the level and such since you are basically reusing them in your new and obviously bigger plots.

Its better that I say:

I do not likehowplots were exploited, but we can't control every little thing in our community. If some choose to get on MP and sellnovians so be it.

Jayne