DEFINE THE GAME!

[imported_Leannae]

Gawd, you just reminded me of how many practice sessions my ex drug me to because he was a baseball fanatic. BORING! [:P]

But the analogy is perfect really. We have many stars and starters all warmed up and ready to play, but the opposing team isn't here.

[Crazyfingers]

Opening game is bobble head day. In honer of Istarian's Team Skipper, all fans will recieve a free Aamer bobble head.

IMHO gotta have a core game in place before working on bonus features.

NimK

[Justa Mirage]

Yes, this is what I would like to see:

Spawns that appear from afar outside the cities and actually march (lower level mobs first, then higher, finally the boss mobs) into the city to do actual physical damage to structures, requiring crafters to rebuild them by adding resources.

Of course it would be like outpost, but for tiered level areas (1-20th level undead for kion/sslanis/parsinia, 20-40th level undead for Dalimond... etc)

And there would be lulls in the advance as each wave is killed, a global would go out saying "Dalimond was spared, thanks to the Gifted defenders, but for how much longer, time will tell!"

Do what they did pre-merger, cut the gate access off of the attacked city. This forces those who were in town to fight or flee, and causes players to "come to the rescue" (this entails that there was RISK to damaged structures involved)

So Tulga, if it were possible, I have read this over and over....

1: destructable environment where characters would need to rebuild if damaged, but cap the damage at oh... 5-20% and the mob will ignore the building after a certain % not to totally destroy the building.

2: Fix your collision detection! Mobs should not be able to walk through walls, trees, over mountains that no gifted player could ever do. This detracts from them "attacking" a fortress when they can just walk through it.

3: Make it so we WANT to run to defend our homes and cities. Ho-Hum... the WA is attacking again... "what are they doing?" They are strutting up and down the street making obscene gestures with their hands... I want damage to structures, which would force crafters to repair it. Make us care what happens.

4: Make us fear logging into the game, not knowing that where you stand may not be safe when you log back in, or finding your plot structures damaged and needing a few repairs. Crafters would get the hint when they can't use their favorite structure to process their goods when the machine they depended on is not working.

[Crazyfingers]

on lesser aradoth, theWA could arrive on Undead Pirate Ships! The ship could act like an anchor and drop off Undead Pirate Skellies that attack Sslanis and Kion. Istarian archers and mages would have to sinkthe shipwhile melee defended against the ground troops.

Skullduggery! GRRRRRRRR

NimK

[Jayne]

Yea Master Bates turned bad and started working for the WA and built them a ship.

Jayne

Still laughing

[Crazyfingers]

David Bowman please tell us the game.

Is it a battle against the WA?

Im sick of it being a battle of players vs David Bowman.

Please speak up! Whereare we goin here?

NimKhazad

[Kulamata]

I think of Horizons as an environment, rather than a game. To some degree, crafters, adventurers, constructors and dragons play different games in a common environment.

[Crazyfingers]

Gamers need competition Kulamata. Folks choose Horizons to compete against a common enemy, not against each other(PvP). Teamwork of a community, working together to fight off the WA. Its not here.

NimK

[imported_Twelvebagger]

There is no purpose.

It is a continual grind in one way or another, with the only variance being what we choose to grind on in a given day.

[Tryagain]

Tulga has pretty much given up on the dynamic war model. Instead they have very obviously settled on a static eq classic model for mob placement and distribution. As well events in no way shape or fashion make this game dynamic or make the war and building a bridge is hardly the " look only in HZ can players change the world" my what a low set of standards we have here. I can change the world the same way but not as a crafter in other MMO's. Hardly earth shattering.

No instead somehow someway Tulga MUST get back to Bowman's original promises of what horizons was supposed to be. The game as it is can attract new blood no doubt but I promise most of them will not stay past 3 months. If they want this game to be successful they must get back to what was originally going to make horizons a 100K plus player game.

Why have they abandoned it ? because I believe the evolution engine and its supporting engines and infrastructure cannot handle it. What I would like to see ? is Tulga admitting this is the case and to once and for all DEFINE where the game is going. Instead we get one chicken scratch text change and DB changes patch after another.

Where is the game going ? what is your vision ? what happened to the horizons that bowman once harped on ?

Enquiring minds want to know. In fact most people want to know.

[Crazyfingers]

[Y] I agree Tryagain

Its almost like having a troubled relative or friend. They screw up a few times, you let it slide. They screw up even more, you try your best to support them. They screw up again, you try and help them with their problem. No matter how hard you try or how much you care, they just keep screwing up. At what point do you just wash your hands?

It really sucks.

Horizons feels like that troubled relative to me, I like it, care about it, invested alot of time into it, tried to help but nuthing changes. Or maybe things are changing? I really dont know and have lost so much trust that maybe its blinded me.

David Bowman this is YOUR game. Your vision. Your message boards. Speak up!

Should We start washing our hands or gearing up for a War?

NimKhazad

[Kulamata]

Actually I didn't define the games within the environment.Some gamers do playto compete against a common enemy; Wellcertainly forHorizons' defenders at the outpost, but the Sims? Or Myst? or King's Quest?

It's often overlooked in these discussions that there are many types of gamers, with very different goals and ideas of fun. Horizons is unusual (and ambitious) in its appeal to sobroad a spectrum. The World Projects group, patiently rebuilding lamp posts, walls, ruined shops, and gazebos, roleplaying and chatting as they work, are just not the same sort of player as the heavily multi-classed-for-one-hit-kills players. Still different, the merchant kings, like Frons. But Horizons has held substantial numbers of all. That's quite an achievement.

This is not to say that an overarching story line is a bad idea. I think it is an excellent one, and if itwere to weave as many player types into it as possible, even better. The Outpost was fun for crafters and adventurers alike, and it may even be the threshold of an emerging story line.

[Crazyfingers]

Kulamata, what you are describing are Carebears. Carebears are very important IMHO. By having elements of an online world cater to these types is a great feature. Horizons does it very well. Tons of husband/wife and kids playing. More than likely the husband isnt a Carebear but chose Horizons because its something he can play as well as the wife and kids. But this is a feature! Not a game.

Males dominate gaming. Horizons tapped in on part of the female market. By no means am I saying Carebears are gay or Females are crappy gamers. But the point is a MMORPG is at competition with leisure activities usually dominated by males. Sports and baseball is what came to mind earlier. Males love baseball, most women dont. If a baseball stadium can entertain the women and children, while Males can enjoy the game. itsa win/win. Sort of what Las Vegas came to realize.
Entertain the women and children, make it a family vacation, but they still after the Husbands $$$$ on the casino floor.

Horizons cannot survive off carebears and community in a male dominated market.

NimKhazad

[BKBanzai]

"What if you logged in one day and saw the shrine in aughundell blazing with flames..screams of NPC's dying and the crashing sound of the walls being broken---bricks and mortarfalling at your feet. Crushing Ogres, Dwarven Berzerkers, Ebon Arcane Lordsand Druid Commanders destroying structers and killing all in sight. The portal breaks and we can't get toAughundell to save the town! The town must be secured and rebuilt for the consigner to unlock, for the portal to work, and for the blight to realize that they picked the wrong fight. . . . .

The people of istaria immediately drop all of their differences and fight side by side in a common interest to prevent disaster from striking."



I think you will still have people leveling their craft, people out trying to get there comps and trophies, etc. etc. etc.

By and large, people will do whatever they were planning on doing. Some are VERY into events and storyline; however, please do not assume that EVERYONE is interested in a storyline.

What things get those that are NOT interested in storyline to participate? Loot. (mostly)


While we're on the topic, I just want to say that the research assistant emblem was pretty gay for as hard and long as the Saja quest was. If that emblem was TG's idea of risk versus reward....well, obviously NOT a lesson learned.

[PJ]

The real reward of Saja's quest is Saja's Puissant Elixer. A potion that gives you -10% delay is a huge reward. Sure its only 1 potion, but you can go get unlimited refills.

[Kulamata]

Instead of chest-beating, "make the game my kind of game", how broad a story line could be developed to engage all theplayers now in game? And attract more?Withissues of improving community being raised, inclusion would seem to be the key.

Ok, work with me here and envision an attack foretold. Big buildup by the WA, intelligence gathered by the Gifted. (Aerial Recon?) New capabilities by the WA, from a New Force being channeled. (So they havenew loot too. Or upgraded existing loot.)
To combat successfully, Istaria needs new weapons, new armor, new jewelry, new scales, new materials ("teched" by transmuting?), new tools to work the new materials and new or improved walls. A new comp (tiered, but just one type) needed, dropped by all critters. Confectioners make new ales/chews to bolster/ward xxx. And ambrosia, lots of ambrosia.Of coursexp for making the whatever. Hokay, we've got defenders, crafters, constructors, confectioners, enchanters, hunters... anyone left out? Bards needed to sing up morale? (Dunno if Chaos has a Bardic group. If so, SMISH!) Andpreparations and defenses would have to be accessible to all levels. (The lower-tier-only attack of a few months ago is a good precedent. Maybe mid-tier and high tier battles only also? That wouldhelp keep battles small enough for the client to function decently.) Then the triumphant Gifted would begin a march to the East...

Parts of this exist, or could be adapted from existing code. Ingenuity, Satyr Island talismans, and Novian materials might provide templates. We have the new force already introduced. Intelligence gathering not unlike collecting recipes from ruined buildings, but by ouraerialists. The new tech for the new armor/weapons etc. would be like a dye, (so still same tech numbers for current materials) or if applied to existing items, like a dye kit. (Or revive/modify the shattered bits and pieces function.) Maybe it could be pulled off without a lot of new development. And because of the "gathering storm" nature of the threat, development could be spread out over a fair amount of time. The approximate time of the attack could somehow be advertised; "Istaria calls for fighters/crafters/constructors to help defend against the newest and greatest threat..." That should pull in players of all persuasions. Maybe athreemonth special event subscription?

These are just quick and dirty notions, thrown outto illustratehow the entire player base could be engaged in an event that fit into an overarching story line, with contributions to be made by all races, classesand levels.It wouldattract new players too.

{Not surethat this post fits here. Maybemove or new thread? }

[BKBanzai]

Good point and yes, the elixer was nice....I wonder how long Saja will be in game providing these elixers though?

[imported_Leannae]

The Outpost was fun for crafters and adventurers alike, and it may even be the threshold of an emerging story line.

We all thought the same thing on the tunnel to werewolf island too. [:$]

On a different note, I find the use of Sim's kind of funny. I was just mentioning to Bori the other day that Horizon's has become an elaborate game of Sims. I played it, it was mildly amusing. But I only played it to build nifty houses, I didn't actually play the game. Right now, that's all we have is a game of Sims. We buy up plots and build them, but there is nogame to play.

Lessor Aradoth being revamped is great, but what happens when those players who start/restart reach the higher levels and have to venture outside Lessor Aradoth? Nothing waits for them. In the meantime while they build up areas for the NEW players who just hit level 20 and move outwards, the old timers still idle.

Bring back some of the older mobs from the past events, give us something to do besides play Sims. Give us a chance to grab up some of those spiffy rares that are gone... Mossy club, shield, regals, anything. (I know there are still people holding onto regal parts hoping)

[Justa Mirage]

You know, my wife plays Horizons, and she plays Sims 2... I never thought of that but now that you bring it up, that's too funny!!!!

I can see it now, a patch to HZ and all of a sudden two dragons silently sitting side by side, and 2 little green plusses go above their head with two little pictures of dragons, and the little giggle laugh. (repeat this several times)

If the cave's a shakin they're makin bakin

[Tryagain]

The Outpost was fun for crafters and adventurers alike, and it may even be the threshold of an emerging story line.

We all thought the same thing on the tunnel to werewolf island too. [img]/Web//emoticons/emotion-10.gif[/img]


Lessor Aradoth being revamped is great, but what happens when those players who start/restart reach the higher levels and have to venture outside Lessor Aradoth? Nothing waits for them. In the meantime while they build up areas for the NEW players who just hit level 20 and move outwards, the old timers still idle.

Bring back some of the older mobs from the past events, give us something to do besides play Sims. Give us a chance to grab up some of those spiffy rares that are gone... Mossy club, shield, regals, anything. (I know there are still people holding onto regal parts hoping)

very true words....

A reason for being must exist in this game. In fact horizons is built TOTALLY around this concept and thats why threads like this exist and why people ask these questions. This is game isn't built around dungeon crawling, it isn't built around pvp and rvr, it isn't built around epic raids, it isn't even built on crafting.

Its built on the people of istaria having a common enemy to battle the Withered aegis. Except the for the fact that this enemy does not exist and never ever has. Pointless meaningless invasions of towns do not count... a contant enemy to battle and stymie is what this game is built around. But the key factor is missing.

So we get people that like the status qou and could care less. They barely keep this game afloat financially. You then have new people coming in and they like it initially, but most will burnout after a couple of months because the game has no staying power. You then have those that have left and come back. By far most of those will leave after awhile as well because they will find that old issues are no where even close to being resolved. So then those that don't leave add to the status qou people and its never enough and there is never enough resources to develop this game the way it should be. Eventually horizons will be gobbled up by something that offers what it offers but does it better and offers what it was supposed to have offer as well. Why ? because tulga absolutely refuses to define where this game is going. They do not have the luxury of being an omnipresent developer, they lost that the very second they filed for chapter 11.

Now its time to lay it all out. I think they haven't because they do not know themselves and are afraid that the remaining playerbase will not like what they are possibly considering. But that would be a huge assumption for them to make I think.