Essence of blight

[Vandellia]

here is an idea that might help with the eob shortage

create for confectioners a formula for them to make essence of blight using the brewing skill they get and the still in game. what would happen is that they could distill blighted essence down into essence of blight
depending on the tier of the confectioner and the tier of the blighted essence they number of essence of blight yield would increase. for example blighte dim essence could make 1 to 2 essence of blight and blighted pales give 3 to 4 and so on up the tier chain :)

[Tzael]

There's no EoB shortage... Sure yeah a mid to high level player won't be interested in gathering it since they've got more effective ways of making money, but while there are new players in Istaria, I do not have an EoB shortage and that goes for everyone on Unity [:)]

Make EoB craftable, and it loses its value in a big way, especially when considering how much blighted essence I've been looting from withered aegis... If EoB has little value because it is readily available, then using ambrosia to treat death point penalty becomes trivial.

I've said it here on the forums before, and I'll say it again. It's all about how you approach the problem. Even if you're not active on the training isles and you don't hang out in the help / new player channels, you can still rely on any new recruits to the guild to be interested in an easy way to make some serious silver to help them get a head start in the game [;)] My spirit oil silo is testament to this fact [H]

[Seranthor]

becomes trivial?... it already IS trivial what are you talking about? I dont know about you but the gather rate of EoB is 1% from 1 resource... you dont think there is anything wrong with that?

[Snowdonia Honeythorn]

Not everyone enjoys drudgery or delegating drudgery to their new found friends and associates.

I wouldn't wish EoB collecting on my worst enemy.

[Tzael]

I think it's time I explain a few things about myself since two people have seen fit to jump on me and try to demonise myself.

I am a confectioner who loves cooking food. We have such a wide variety of products available to craft, all of which are needed because they all work together to accomplish the same end effect. Take alchemists, out of their range of products metal reapers and vestia's soothing remedy pots are the best sellers, the others get an occasional look-in. We as confectioners are blessed that we can sell every single tier IV food product we make. At least we could, before the sodding ambrosia change...

I don't like making ambrosia. If I wanted to be a one-product wonder, I'd have chosen a school that involves building work as my main choice. It irks me to see so many ambrosia jockeys out there, they popped up like crazy ever since the level cap on Ambrosia VII was raised. They've never made anything other than ambrosia unless it's to experiment. I make ambrosia if people ask me for it, but I will always point out to them that I have the entire range of tier IV food on sale at Kion's consigner first (Fellea is Unity's main consigner it seems). If they make it clear that they won't use food, fair enough, I'll make their ambrosia. If they bring me the EoB, I don't even bother trying to persuade them to sample my food dishes, I just make the ambrosia. I never consign ambrosia though, unless it is excess left over from direct-dealings with a customer.

In short, I will try to avoid selling ambrosia if at all possible, despite the change that made everyone and their dogs want ambrosia, and pretty much turned the confectioner school into a joke. I value diversity, so I sure as hell am not going to support an idea that makes ambrosia more commonplace than it already is.

Now let's get down to direct responses. Yes Seranthor, trivial is the word that best describes what would happen to death point reduction if ambrosia became more commonplace. Sure it may seem trivial to you now, I can understand that because of passive death point reduction. Imagine how much more trivial the whole issue of dying would become if everyone was popping ambrosia every time they died - oh wait, that's what it's already like on Unity for the most part...

I dont know about you but the gather rate of EoB is 1% from 1 resource... you dont think there is anything wrong with that?

Do the maths again, if you truly want people to believe that they need to clear 100 resource nodes before getting 1 EoB then go right ahead, but just stop for a moment, and do the maths. There now, had a chance to figure it out ? Ok, you must've had a few minutes by now. What answer do you get when you apply probability factors ? Gee, I'm looking at a 15% chance of getting 1 EoB per resource node. That's roughly 1 every 6 nodes ! Guess what ? That 15% doesn't change just because someone uses GoAV, they just get more nodes done in a shorter space of time thus instead of approximately 15 EoB per hour, they'll get 20+ EoB per hour. In short, as a response to your question, no I don't see anything wrong with that.

Snowdonia, dear Snowdonia. Why is it of late that whenever I post, you're not far behind to try and tarnish me in some way ? You make it sound like I am forcing people at gunpoint to gather EoB ! Rest assured that anyone who asks about the possibility of helping me out is explained in full what EoB gathering entails, right down to the warning that they might not get anything for a full 20 minutes of gathering. They are given the low-down, then they are left to decide if they want to spend a couple of hours of drudgery to make enough silver to last them their first 30 or 40 levels of gameplay. If anyone is being forced into anything, I am the one being forced to regularly part with silver because people come to me regularly with EoB and push it onto me - I'm not gonna turn them away empty handed after they've spent an hour or two at the battlefield outside Tazoon, no-one deserves that.

I wouldn't wish EoB collecting on my worst enemy.

I wouldn't wish 'forced EoB gathering' on my worst enemy. If someone is more than willing to do it and understands what is involved, then I am not going to stand in their way. It is important to me that they understand what is involved, just as importantly is the knowledge imbued upon the young EoB gatherer informing them of the lack of obligation. Afterall, we're talking about people I'm helping learn the game who are asking me how best to make money, not the other way around.

So in closing, directed at everyone, do you all want to be ambrosia jockeys, or would you rather work together towards making our school the viable playground of diversity it was up until the Ambrosia VII level cap raise ? I want to cook food, not ambrosia, how about you ?

[imported_tjl]

Do the maths again, if you truly want people to believe that they need to clear 100 resource nodes before getting 1 EoB then go right ahead, but just stop for a moment, and do the maths. There now, had a chance to figure it out ? Ok, you must've had a few minutes by now. What answer do you get when you apply probability factors ? Gee, I'm looking at a 15% chance of getting 1 EoB per resource node. That's roughly 1 every 6 nodes ! Guess what ? That 15% doesn't change just because someone uses GoAV, they just get more nodes done in a shorter space of time thus instead of approximately 15 EoB per hour, they'll get 20+ EoB per hour. In short, as a response to your question, no I don't see anything wrong with that.

if you use the amount of EoB gathered based on how many nodes were harvested, i could see 15% maybe. But how much blighted sandstone must be harvested (and deleted) until 1 EoB magically appears? I would say the 1% was a generous estimate on Seranthor's part.

[Tzael]

if you use the amount of EoB gathered based on how many nodes were harvested, i could see 15% maybe. But how much blighted sandstone must be harvested (and deleted) until 1 EoB magically appears? I would say the 1% was a generous estimate on Seranthor's part.

Now that all comes down to skill level. Someone with a higher skill level will have a lower percentage based upon the criteria you cite. Someone with a low skill level will have a much higher percentage. The percentage of 15% per node that I offered does not change, and therefore is not subject to fluctuation that is beneficial when attempting to demonstrate particular points. In other words, which statistics would you rather use ? The unbiased stats, that are not subjective to particular conditions, or the biased stats that can be proclaimed as true without citing the criteria that influence them ?

[imported_tjl]

well, either of the stats will lead to the same conclusion. it does not drop fast enough. i would rather leave stats out of it. i was merely explaining what seranthor was saying.

[Vandellia]

Per tulga skill matters little with eob's the percentage retprted is 1 percent period that is it. Thedrop rate take it or leave it, ask a dev,. and that is the answer, and as far as things go My beloved craft is a 1 trick pony primarily due to the change of ambrosia 7.No one wants foods No one buys foods the all want ambrosia, while we are at it stand by for the coming changes expect at what ever craft level you are at in confectioner to be very very suprised.

[Tzael]

well, either of the stats will lead to the same conclusion. it does not drop fast enough. i would rather leave stats out of it. i was merely explaining what seranthor was saying.

Np, I appreciated the explanation since it showed me where Seranthor was coming from with the 1% stat [:)]

[Vandellia]

I am of the mind set, that if i wont do it my self, i can not ask others to do it.The drudgery and sheer waste of time and effort to gather enough Eobs to make ambrosia is beyond silly.I can not look anyone in the face and tell them go gather the eobs and bring them to me, theni'll make your ambrosia. I like being independant for the most part I prefer to be able to do my favorite school with out help pleading or wheedling. Why should anyone spend litteral hours for zero xp and or benefit . I cant see any reason for it at all. No ,money is not a benefit. yes its nice ,but most people look at the XP portion of an activity and if they get none simply wont do it. All the suggestion I made was intended was to remove the shear drudgery/grind for eobs in the game make the lot of the confectioner a bit easier and i get slapped for it. Im pointing out issues and offereing solutions to problems. It is far better to see an issue and report it and offer possible solutions then to stand around and complain or attack other people for trying to fix issues. That said, Confectioner is a 1 trick pony currently the change to ambrosia 7 ensured that, Until they re-write the school from the ground up like they are planning,food simply doesnt sell, except for the odd quest food sale.

[Seranthor]

The unbiased stats, that are not subjective to particular conditions, or the biased stats that can be proclaimed as true without citing the criteria that influence them ?

Tzael Sir, 1% IS the UNbiased information PROVIDED by a TG dev, question it all you desire, dont believe me, ask them yourself, I DO have the facts, dont like the facts do something about getting them changes for the better. Dont like us being one trick ponies with just ambrosia? Do something about the situation for the better. Support your fellow CNFs instead of standing idly by and treating those that ARE trying to make the CNF life better like pariahs.

[Snowdonia Honeythorn]

Well, to be completely honest, I want to cook food that does more than remove a paultry 3-6 minutes worth of DPT. It is pretty obvious by the extreme lack in attention ANY regular food has gotten since release that Ambrosia was, and always will be, intended to be the only reasonable means of DPT removal. WE didn't set that precidence, THEY did.

So in light of this forced intention there should be a change to accomodate this and seeing EoB is the bottleneck for ambrosia it should be addressed. Which I believe is Van's entire point.

While we're at it, put the cap back on Ambrosia VII and put in an Expert form for Ambrosia VIII and IX and give at least our Expert Cooking Sheets something they can be used in until the Confectioner rework gets put in game (Cooking Sheets and Spirit Oil amounts being the ONLY things that change throughout all versions of Ambrosia).

[AmonGwareth]

I had a talk with Vandellia on friday night and she presented me with her concerns. I made a change to Spirit Oil to provide 3 units instead of 2. And I'll be discussing some other fixes/changes with Manga tomorrow to help out. Nothing drastic since confectioners will be changing a lot soon, but something to help in the meantime.

Ambrosia 8/9 is one option on the table (though I am not promising anything).

- Amon

[Vandellia]

thanksamon i try and offer suggestions to help and it gets derailed i for one am tired of that thanks for your help

[Jayne]

Ummmmm, Lets look at this in my eyes.

I don't see much out there but Amb. All the tells in MP are who wants Amb.

My question: Is there a menu that tells me what other foods are available? If so does it tell me what the foods do? Is Gruok pie better for you then carrot stew?

Enlighten me please.

Jayne

[Snowdonia Honeythorn]

Jayne,

As I said above, all other DPTR foods only remove 3-6 minutes of DPT per food eaten. At your level, to remove 1 DP you'd need to eat at least 100+ of the 6 minute foods in like an hour or two time frame. It isn't reasonable and vastly inferior to Ambrosia. It is why you see no-one peddling regular food on Chaos nor anyone *wanting* regular food on Chaos.

[Jayne]

Well hopefully all that have concerns with confectioner ill be at the meeting tonight. Anyone who doesn't voice there concern need not complain in the future.

Jayne

[Snowdonia Honeythorn]

Here is the breakdown I typed up on one of the long ago locked Confectioner threads in the Discussion forum.

*copy and paste*
Meat types:
Beef
Chicken
Fish
Gruok
Mutton
Veal
Vegetable: Carrot
Vegetable: Potato

Entree types:
Soups - 3m
Steaks - 3m
Stews - 4m
Kabobs - 4m
Jerky - 5m
Pickles - 5m
Roasts - 6m
Pies - 6m

All meats have all entree types and the veggies have soups. So for each tier this is what we have total:

T1 & T2:
Soups - 8
Steaks - 6
Stews - 6
Kabobs - 6
Jerky - 6
Pickles - 6
Roasts - 6
Pies - 6
------------------
Total = 50

T3 & T4:
Soups - 8
Steaks - 0
Stews - 0
Kabobs - 6
Jerky - 6
Pickles - 0
Roasts - 6
Pies - 0
-----------------
Total = 26

Now, lets do some consumption figuring. First we'll start by figuring the amount of each minute allotment food individually to see how many someone would need to eat in how much time to remove a single 8 hour DP. My figures will take into account the 10 minute wait period.

Numbers will be listed as such:
DPR per food - number of foods that remove this amount - amount of food needed to remove a single DP if all food types in this time allotment were available - amount of courses to do so - amount of 10 minute wait periods - total time taken for removal

T1 & T2:
3m - 14 - 130 - 10 - 9 - 1h 30m
4m - 12 - 100 - 9 - 8 - 1h 20m
5m - 12 - 84 - 7 - 6 - 1h
6m - 12 - 72 - 6 - 5 - 50m

T3 & T4:
3m - 8 - 114 - 15 - 14 - 2h 20m
4m - 6 - 85 - 15 - 14 - 2h 20m
5m - 6 - 72 - 12 - 12 - 2h *note: you must wait out your last 10 minutes*
6m - 6 - 64 - 11 - 10 - 1h 40m

And to be fair, lets go ahead and list the figures if you happened on the impossible and had every single food type across every time allotment. Same listing format as above only I'm excluding the DPR per food and I'll be figuring for the least amount of food possible to compensate any odd remaining time to the minute. To reinterate: Number of foods that remove this amount - amount of food needed to remove a single DP - amount of courses to do so - amount of 10 minute wait periods - total time taken for removal

T1 & T2:
50 - 103 - 3 - 2 - 20m

T3 & T4:
26 - 102 - 4 - 3 - 30m

[Senkeleron Fell]

So if you actually had all foods it would probably be faster to go with food than it would be to go hunt EOB.

At the meeting (since I am not on Chaos) see if you can convince them to give us Meal formulas, like a formula where you take every type of food and make it into one Meal, then you just eat one Meal every 10 minutes...