Milspeak vs. English

[Tokoz]

Just something I can't but help noticing....

In the military, you learn really fast to say things as quickly and directly as possible. So when your buddy's wearing his beret like a chef's hat, you don't say, "Excuse me, but your beret looks like a chef's hat. You might want to fix it before the Sergeant Major sees you." You say, "Fix your ate up hat, CSM is coming." There are times when this directness leads to trouble. "I'm going to square you away." can be an offer for much needed assistance in the military, where outside people might think they're about to experience (excuse my milspeak) "wall to wall counselling."

There's a few generations present on this board. Some, like me, learned milspeak by serving in the military. People like that realize sometimes that there are different modes of speach and will try and use the more long-winded but polite way of saying things. Other's (like the majority who speak it as children of the baby-boomers) learned it from a parent that served in the military. In cases like that, it's considered normal speach. The person does not realize that they are being overly direct to someone that is not familiar with the nuances of milspeak.

In the vast majority of cases where someone has been "moderated" I've seen basically someone using milspeak. Even knowing the language as I do, I take exception to its use here. We are not at war with each other or anyone else on these boards. Milspeak exists because it is necessary in that culture.

It's not necessary in this place. (And again, if the shoe fits, wear it) It *is* possible to be too forward. It is possible to be too direct. A few extra words can make a huge difference.

In the military you actually don't always to have time to think before you speak. "3 o'clock, 600 meters" You hear it, you do it and repeat it. It might actually be a few seconds before what your mouth and body are doing reaches your brain.

Here you do have time and it's better to take it.

[Pharcellus]

For those who are ignorant of what you are talking about and how it applies here, why don't you provide some examples?

This should be interesting...

[Snowdonia Honeythorn]

Tokoz,

While you may like to be PC and call it "Milspeak" I hate to break it to you but not all countries speak in the same, or even ball park, nuances that Americans do. Many many many of us are not from America or other PC speaking countries.

Now, while I AM American I can also be blunt and direct. I use to not always be so but being married to an Aussie for over 7 years has led me to let go of a lot of the pus sy-footing around my Americanism had instilled. Australians are well known for their brash and direct manner. This isn't "milspeak" this is their culture.

The Bristish are known for using the term "stupid" in regards to something that is "silly" (to Americans) but call it for what it is, stupid. They aren't being overtly insulting, it is just culturally accepted that "stupid" isn't always meant offensively and is used in place of "silly."

This is also true of nationalities where english is not their first language. I had a German friend who came to stay with us once who, when my daughter did something "silly," would call her stupid. I got pretty offended by this but later realized, english being his second language, he didn't mean it in the way Americans would mean it.

Saying "Shut your gob/mouth" or "Shut up" to a kid in Australia is culturally acceptable whereas in America it would be concidered a case of mild, verbal abuse.



So in light of all of this Tokoz, I really have one thing to put forth here that you seem to be taking for granted. The internet, these forums, and this game do NOT equal America, they equal the world. Just like we as humans need to strive to be a bit more understanding of our worldly neighbors, the same is true here. Instead of trying to teach us not to use "milspeak" how about promoting more understanding of the world outside your backyard?


EDIT: And thanks Entilzah for the move. I full on agree with this one and it has my complete support. ;)

[Tokoz]

When in Rome.

While serving in Iraq a hispanic soldier, who was being hounded by kids for candy, took the candy and threw it on the ground, then took a picture of the kids as they scrambled for it. It reminded him of kids at a party breaking open a pinata.

An elderly Iraqi that saw what happened and took offense. How dare he photograph children grovelling in the dirt like dogs? Who apologized to whom?

The American soldier apologized and explained that in his culture it was a normal occurance. As an extra measure of goodwill, he exposed the camera film to destroy the picture. Now the burden lay on the Iraqi, not the soldier. The Iraqi excepted the apology.

I've talked to people all over the world. I've been in more countries than most Americans and usually around people that didn't want me there to begin with.

Milspeak is one culture. Are there cultures similar in speach? Yes. I'm not saying there aren't. What I am saying is that people need to slow down and think before they speak, and try their best to adapt to the predominate culture around them. If American weren't the predominate culture than you'd have a colour paletee for the forums instead of a color palette.

Speak freely, speak openly. I've made sacrifices so that people can. But when you cross the cultural taboo line, it's an international agreement, you apologize to those you offended and adapt.

Besides most of the people that fit this particular shoe are definitely American.

[Pharcellus]

Still waiting for some specific examples relevant to the venue. If culturalism doesn't come into play, what is the line of arbitration? What each person personally finds offensive?

[Nanain]

this idea of milspeak, reminds me of how I chat in irc, or basicly online anywhere, it gets into ur thinking too, and I sometimes wish it could be this quick in verbal english as well.
Speed in language and expressing urself is a sign of the times, it's our languages changing once again, an it's not necessarily a bad thing. The issue to my mind, would be being unaware or unthoughtful of how your conversation affects others.

I like etymology, the study of the origin of words, and with that I like to see how the language and slang of one english speaking colony differs from the other, so if I'm chating to someone from that country, I have a good idea of what words to use and what ones to steer clear of. In Dublin, Ireland where I was born n bred, we have some complex slang, that you won't understand without explanations and some idea of the history of the place, or rather the culture we were raised in. You might get the jist of it, but as in all languages, it's what's not said more than is, the little nuances and tone.

For instance, I can call my mate a **********, and she won't be insulted, unless I change the tone, which could result in violence. :)

Also, when I write snailmail to someone, I often want to insert a smilie face :) because it says an awful lot, and having to write several lines to express that feeling is frustrating when I know that :) would work very well, but it looks silly in a hand written letter.

Whoops went off topic...ahh nm I'm in the right forum :p

Some interesting Irish slang :)

http://www.users.bigpond.com/kirwilli/dubslang/

[Arondos]

Hehe I'm retired Navy and my wife frequently accuses me of being rude. Most of the time my response is I am not being rude I am being direct. It's habit at this point. I say what I mean and I don't mince words or worry about hurting someone's feelings I don't try to offend anybody but I'm not going to spend 10 minutes candy coating things to appease someone's sense of politacal correctness either.

[Nanain]

or speaking in acronyms...my uncle did that, and apart from a select few most in the family were like 'ya wot?'

[Entilzah]

Use of vulgar acronyms is a means of bypassing the profanity filter. Post in question (and the subsequent reply) have been removed.