Discussion of forum rule changes. Since topic was added as "No Reply".

[Entilzah]

Thankyou for the feedback Kumu. As mentioned, we have taken feedback into consideration to develop the new forum rules, and we will revise them as felt necessary if they are not appropriate. You raise a valid point regarding multiple acconuts from a single IP address that might be part of a home network and I shall discuss this with the other moderators.

With regards to the personal attacks section, this remains unchanged from the previous rules. If felt that it is too relaxed we can look at ways of making this part stricter in order to prevent any confusion.

Take care,

Entilzah

[Seranthor]

I ask my questions here because I'm certain that others will have the same or similar questions and the post announcing the 'new' rules is locked and I see no other place to ask questions where everyone can see the answers and contribute questions of their own.

The moderators will enforce these rules as necessary. Your posts may be deleted or locked,

Does this mean questions, content or theories that are do not conform to the status quo are forbidden?

No cussing, swearing, slander, spamming, pornography, racism or sexism - this includes bypassing the profanity filter and links posted to sites which exhibit such things.

Will this be enforced objectively or will it be used to single out individuals?

No personal attacks are allowed. This includes everyone from attacking other players to the developers. Use of derogatory words will get you moderated in quick order. Repeated attacks will get you banned.

Enforceable for everyone, or just to be used against persons that dont agree with the current course of things?


I also agree these are too liberal a ruleset opening the possibility for serious abuses by moderators or potential moderators.


More questions coming... stay tuned.

[Entilzah]

Merged your post into this one Seranthor, I daresay you were posting at the same time Kumu was. [:)]

Feedback on these forums are welcome, and as long as the posters adhere to the rules, topics will not be locked.

The rule regarding swearing, pornography etcetera is almost unchanged from the previous rules. This will not be used to single out individuals, however if an individual chooses to break this rule they will receive a warning as they might have done in the past.

As has been said in the past, if anyone issues a personal attack, whether it be at yourself, a developer, another player or forum staff, and we don't see it, please use the report post link on the post in question so that we may address it. Again this rule is unchanged from the previous rules so in effect nothing has changed there.

Thankyou for your feedback on this matter. I have a small request to make of you Seranthor, I notice your post became subject to a forum bug which has broken the post flow. Could you add a trailing [ /quote ] (without the spaces) in the appropriate places to overcome this issue? Thankyou in advance.

Take care,

Entilzah

Edit : You're a step ahead of me in putting those trailing quote tags in, thankyou. [:)]

[Peaches]

Let me add this comment:

The changes basically reflect that posters need to stop and think about what they are going to say, without beating up other posters or Tulga. Its not a matter of us not *liking* negative posts, its more of a matter of posts that will state a problem, to alert the staff to it, and or even come up with some suggestions. This in turn, will make our boards a lot better in the long run. Berating other posters, or the dev team does not get anything accomplished, and if you want things accomplished, please post accordingly.

Thanks!

[JDexter]

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Graphics and Signatures

Please do not post pictures from other fan sites or "hotlink" to them without approval from the linking site.
Content of signatures should be wholly owned by the signature holder. Do not link to or copy content you do not own or lack permission to use. Do not use copyrighted or trademarked images in your sig.
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Avatars and signatures may not break other forum rules and may not resemble or copy the graphics used for the forum groups (such as the developer or moderator indicators).
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Time to scrub through the signatures. I have seen many, including a mod's, signature that falls outside these guidelines.


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Appropriate Forum

Please post topics in the appropriate forum. Even though one forum may get more attention than another, this is no excuse to post your topic in the incorrect forum. Moderators will move topics to the appropriate forum, and will leave a link to the topic in the original location. Forum members who repeatedly post topics in the incorrect forums will receive a warning via personal message.
Please keep trade posts in the individual server forums.
Don not cross-post in an attempt to publicise your topics. Cross-posting will result in the additional topics being removed. An example of cross-posting would be to start a topic in the Discussions forum, and then post in the General forum offering a link to your post and asking for feedback. It is perfectly acceptable to link to other forum posts as reference material; this is not the same as cross-posting.
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I hope this will include everyone, including you, Peaches.

As I look through the General Discussion I spy a post you made about Transport Errors. This belonged in the Bugs forum, as is usually the case when someone posts a bug in General. I distinctly remember a serious issue being posted on General to avoid causing grief to other players which was relegated to the Bug forum, and which caused many people grief because they did exactly what that post warned about (myself included).

Enforce the rules across the board, including moderators (and Dangit if he ever posts his nasty attack responses again) and it will be cool. Otherwise, its just license to move things you personally don't agree with.

[Seranthor]

Perhaps Peaches, but it has been repeatedly demonstrated that those that agree with the status quo, TG, and are on the same side as the devs/mods/etc get wider latitude when they break the forum rules or flagrantly flaunt them. Whereas those that are willing to point at the elephant in the room are unfailingly subjected to the 'letter of the rules'. Hence the appearance of a double standard, even though its been said that none exists.

[Peaches]

A transport error is not a bug, its a problem with the internet, albeit be on my end or theirs, I had no idea. It can actually go in general, as it is not a game bug, by design. Thank you for pointing this out , thus allowing me to correct this issue.


A bug is just that, something that happens ingame, connectivity , transport errors, are ok in general.

[Peaches]

Seranthor, its all in how the post is written:

For example:

FiX THIS NOW you lazy bums!

Now, what does that accomplish other than to make you feel a bit better for venting? Btw, you can vent in the rants section.


Versus

I have an issue with the game. State the issue, state why you feel that way, give suggestions to help improve it. This post will go a longer way to contributing to the cause than the upper post would have.


We dont like banning folks, we dont take enjoyment in putting folks on moderation either. We aren't playing any power trips whatsoever. We all are a part of a wonderful community, I just want to see some of the issues that we have been dealing with of late, with the hate messages, so to speak, to be not so overwhelming.

[Entilzah]

I have a quick question for everyone that came to mind while reading JDexter's post. We get mixed messages with regards to moving posts on the forums. Some people give feedback saying we don't move enough posts to the correct location, others say we move too many posts. Over the last three months or so we have tried to be more relaxed with posts in the general forum which as folks might guess led to more complaints about posts not being moved.

We are either able to be extremely consistent, or be relatively relaxed. By being consistent some will say we are being heavy-handed. By being relaxed with post moves we get told we are not doing our jobs properly.

So here is my question after explaining the foundation for it. Which do you as a visitor and participant in these forums (speaking to everyone) prefer, consistent moving of posts (bear in mind that those who persist in posting in the wrong forum may end up with a warning), or a more relaxed approach that allows for the accumulation of the majority of posts in a single location (which has the negative effect of making it hard to find posts of importance)?

I value feedback on this matter in particular, because as a moderator we cannot please everyone in accomodating their personal posting preferences. So we would prefer to please the majority if possible.

[Seranthor]

I personally prefer a more relaxed approach, that said, if your going to do that do not let your bias for or against a certain topic be your compass in determining what to move. Ifa moderatoris unable to seperate their bias from the situation then I prefer the other option of moving it all. Either option can work, if those in charge are willing to make it work.

[Entilzah]

The Herald Reports are certainly a special case. I can understand frustration at seeing them in the general forum since there is nothing to declare why they are allowed to remain here.

We were asked to have the latest herald reports stickied in the general forum, and older herald reports moved to their correct location. This has not been a problem for the majority of forum visitors however in a few cases it has been used as a means to demonstrate inconsistency from moderators. The latest herald reports will always be stickied in the general forum as a matter of policy. This may be subject to review, it all comes down to feedback.

I appreciate this doesn't resolve your concern Kumu, but I hope that the brief explanation is sufficient in making it clearer that the herald reports are indeed an exception.

Take care,

Entilzah

[Peaches]

I agree Seranthor. I do my utmost best to not hold any bias, as it does not help the situation at all, if you read my above post, my example of posting, you will see what I look for above all.

[Entilzah]

I appreciate your comments on this matter Kumu. Would it be fair to say that in response to my question above, you would prefer absolute consistency as opposed to a more relaxed approach?

We dearly want to ensure that the forums are appreciated and used by all visitors, whether they are new to the game or have been here since launch. I'll be keeping an eye on feedback to see what else we can do to improve everyone's forum experience.

Take care,

Entilzah

[evilkarl]

Difference between the herald reports and the x issue list is that the herald reports are sanctioned by TG.

I'm not sure why you have such a problem with these Kumu other than the fact you feel you are being down trodden when a dragon centric post is relocated to the dragon forum and a general (although occasionally shard specific) herald report is left in general.

I prefer consistancy and posts being relocated to where they belong in a consistant manner.

[Snowdonia Honeythorn]

Like,

I think this can be taken off sticky. 1) its not a herald report, 2) its not a dev created notice, 3) its been 12 days since it was posted and 4) its been 9 days since anyone has bothered posting to it. It's ran its course.

(to show some unbias)

This should also probably be taken off sticky unless there is some updated information that can be given stating this information is still needed. While it is a relavent sticky it has been 60 days since it was posted and 47 days since anyone has posted to it.


This should be moved up to the Announcements and FAQs section of the General forum as that is what it is.

And lastly....

This should be removed from the Announcements and FAQs section of the General forum as it is far far out of date and no longer relevant, recent information that needs to be brought to everyones attention.

[PJ]

Ooo and this one should probably be unstickied.

http://community.istaria.com/Web/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=119

In the housing section.

This was sticked ~11 months ago, and hasn't been current information for ohhhh ~10 months.

[AA0]

I am not a fan at all of the moderating. Its just too inconsistant, we see posts moved when they are questionable and others stay when they should be moved. Things need to be consistant, as you can't just choose to rule with an ironhand on tuesdays and fridays and let the rest slip.

The forum layout is also a massive mess, we have no need for such detailed forum structures most of the time, and a previous mod did make a huge mess of the adventure classes. No doubt that many places to check and put things gets confusing, makes a mod's job harder

[imported_Frith-Rae]

*chuckles* I myself prefer a relaxed form of modding - but CONSISTENT - yes. So strict on the consistency - of what gets moved and what doesn't - but perhaps relaxed on the rules of what gets moved. Yes - that does make sense :).

I also think it doesn't need to be a "MAY" get a warning. I think if you have your posted moved, locked, deleted, WHATEVER - then the rules should clearly state it is the moderator's responsibility to DEFINITELY let the subject know - through a PM'd warning or whatever.

I also feel that if a post is locked or moved - then the moderator should DEFINITELY post and give reason WHY. I've seen at least one thread in the general forum in the last week locked outright - and when I read it I see no reason nor statement as to why it was locked - and honestly after reading it I couldn't figure it out.

MOST of the moderators - on moved and locked posts - are good about this. I've seen far more threads locked with the last post being the moderator who gave a reason - great. But I do see threads locked with no post from a moderator at all - no explanation given.

And I see threads moved constantly that have no reason given - which perhaps leads to the perceived bias - since we can't see the logic behind it.

Be relaxed - give important topics their due in general forum- no matter WHAT the genre of topic they fall in. Let this be KNOWN to the community that you are going to be "more or less" lax than you ahve been as far as topic relevance. After the topic has run it course and goes unresponded to - sure go ahead and move it. But if its important - and come on I'm sure that doesn't need to be explained - I feel it should stay in general.

But be consistent on its application - no matter how strict or lax - be consistent. If its private rules only you mods know - so be it - but there should be guidance to each and every mod just how "lax" or how "strict" you are goign to be. VERY CLEAR!!

Consistency - is always what's most important.

And I'd rather see things that some feel "don't belong" in general, than 1/2 the posts moved to obscurity getting no response and no feedback. Its not like we have hundreds of posts in general daily and we have to scan through five new pages of stuff. IF that ever becomes a problem, we can readdress the issue.

So yes, I vote a more relaxed view on the moving of threads - but consistency in enforcement.

[IndyMan]

Heavy handed and consistant is what I would like most. I too wonder about the herald reports than think they belong in the second where, well ...., they belong.

[Entilzah]

We're getting a nice little list of topics to take a look at and un-sticky or un-announce here, I do wish I could take care of them myself but since moderators are limited tomaking new sticky or announcement topics and cannot modify existing ones, I am instead putting together a list of topics mentioned here, as well as any I find elsewhere on the forums (such as 3 stickied Unity shard herald reports in the shard herald reports forum that really do not need to be stickied) and this list will be passed onto a forum admin to address.

I've taken note of several more points brought up that I will do my best to address, such as locked topics that for whatever reason have not had a reason specified for the lock. My own thoughts are that if a topic gets locked and no reason is left, then we as moderators should unlock it until whoever locked it supplies a reason. I'm not saying that is what will happen, but it is certainly what I will suggest. We're all meant to leave a reason for a topic lock.

Thankyou for the continued feedback on the new forum rules, we'll keep watching this topic for your thoughts on the matter and will let you know what changes come about because of them. [:)]

Take care,

Entilzah