PvP in Chaos?

[imported_Twelvebagger]

No way would it go live.

But, it would make for an interesting one time event.

[Helcat]

I'm willing to betNONE of the people whining about this
has even gone to the arena to see what it's really like.

************ some people love to complain. I think they maintain
their subscriptions solely for morbid fear of running out of
things to bitchabout.

It's just good natured fun between veteran adventurers who
wish to spar in a totally isolated, consentualenvironment.
And I'm also willing to bet it actually fosters a better sense
of comraderie between fellow adventurers.

If it scares you that much, here's an idea: don't go.
Now get over yourselves.


your pal,

Helcat

[EmilyDawn]

I've never really played any MMO's before but i'm getting the feeling that PvP in other games has left a sour takes in alot of ppl's mouth's. well, i tried it last nite an it is nothing like you ppl are saying or complaining about. there is no griefing. ppl are there to just have fun and take a break from HZ...that what it seems to me.

it is totally seperate from the game an there is absolutely no benefits for doing it (other than to just have a good time with your guild and friends that you made in the game. so far, everyone i think has been handling it maturely and are having a blast just trying out their classes on each other. even making up games and teams and being creative. [:P] i see no reasont to complain about class balancing cuz this not what it about. it about having fun and taking a break from the game HZ. [:)]

anyway, for me, is nice to know if i get bored in HZ but still love/want to play...i know i can always go over to Blight an spend a few carefree moments laughing and having fun in the arena [:P]

and for those of you who are adimantly opposed to it...well, it is never gonna affect you. and i would say, actually open up you mind and go there and try it once...you never know, you might just have the time of your life. but you might not...but at least you can say that you tried it and it wasn't for you.

but you will see, it's not really PvP but rather neat little games that pplare making upand having fun playing with each other [;)]

[Sajid]

Anyone who does not consider Arena PvP an option might

** Try to actually understand what Arena PvP is and is not **

I cannot say I ever understood Hz developers or "do it and I quit" community. The arena is an end-game adventure thing.

Please note: my wife was strictly against every notion of PvP during her time in Hz. Now I can't find many evenings where she is not in WoW Battle Grounds. Why? Because it is fun - but you have to TRY it before JUDGING it.

[Crazyfingers]

Its a good testing tool.

Devs can watch players fight other players and see how they react to different attacks/debuffs and learn tactics that they can program into mob bevahiours which will lead to better mobs that more challenging.

It also provides a bit of fun for those who want to participate in some friendly PvP on blight.

If it did come to order I wouldn't quit. But I would want to be sure that TG would deal with any sort of overflow if reported (trash talk in TG rooms etc).

Crazyfingers
would rather my class not be nerfed.


Why do you think your class will be nerfed because of this?

Btw eventually when an eventual and much needed class rebalance happens undoubtedly something will change that you will initally percieve as a nerf even if it is not.

Lol you just answered your own question.

Only thing I have ever seen done in Horizons just for fun was adding more hoard drops. Theres other motives behind this. Allready heard the dragons chirping.

I love pvp but dont want to see it used to nerf classes(percieved or otherwise)

Class balance never exists, theres always some that figure out the better build. Then mmorpgs try to nerf it. over and over again.

NimKhazad

[Seranthor]

IMMHO its not whether PvP is fun, good, exciting, (insert superlative here). Its the fact that there are so many other things that NEED fixed, and NEED developer attention BEFORE this gets any. And its the fact that its getting ANY developer attention demonstrates that its been placed higher up on the priority list than LONG standing issues that even now are begging for attention. Ponder this, think about all the assets that were involved in the creation of the arena, the coding, etc. Your going to tell me that it was ALL done 'off the clock'? Certainly the art efforts could have been spent on dragon lairs or other art actually needed in game, true? Ponder that for a moment.

[imported_Ssilmath]

Great Gonzo, Batman, it's another conspiracy theory!

I think all will agree that right now the classes are unbalanced, and need work...
I think all will agree that mobs are stupid and there are builds and combos that easily beat them
I think all will agree that the best way to fix both is to see how players play their characters against an intelligent opponent...

Who knows, perhaps this whole conspiracy isn't going to ruin the game, but make it better...

Oh, perish the thought!

[imported_tjl]

And its the fact that its getting ANY developer attention demonstrates that its been placed higher up on the priority list than LONG standing issues that even now are begging for attention. Ponder this, think about all the assets that were involved in the creation of the arena, the coding, etc. Your going to tell me that it was ALL done 'off the clock'? Certainly the art efforts could have been spent on dragon lairs or other art actually needed in game, true? Ponder that for a moment.

There are no new art assets on this island. In fact, there are almost none. There is one tree, a port in pad, and a small lake in the center. Prob took no more than 15 min to put together.

[Daedra]

IMMHO its not whether PvP is fun, good, exciting, (insert superlative here). Its the fact that there are so many other things that NEED fixed, and NEED developer attention BEFORE this gets any. And its the fact that its getting ANY developer attention demonstrates that its been placed higher up on the priority list than LONG standing issues that even now are begging for attention. Ponder this, think about all the assets that were involved in the creation of the arena, the coding, etc. Your going to tell me that it was ALL done 'off the clock'? Certainly the art efforts could have been spent on dragon lairs or other art actually needed in game, true? Ponder that for a moment.

Smeglor does not do confectioner or dragon stuff. So it hasnt taken time away from these. The adjusting of schools is on the schedule, this will help that. So its not taking time away from anything that wasnt already scheduled....
And for the record, I hate PvP in the conventional sense of it in a game. Having said that...I would be kinda interested to see how I fare against some of the Unity players (I cannot test it on blight to see whether I think its good or not). If PvP (with its rewards, grief killing etc) was ever introduced I'd walk, but it really doesnt seem like that.
So take a chill pill folks.

[Raptress]

I have a question for those who think this little pet-project arena will "ruin the game" or some other tripe like that: "What is the big deal?"
It's completely and absolutely avoidable.
It's been stated in different ways by different devs that this is not a balancing tool. Why are you so afraid of balancing anyways? Some classes/builds are obviously underpowered compared to others, why not give everyone a chance to fight at the same level? In fact, balancing doesn't even have to 'nerf,' all it has to do is 'bulk up' weaker players. When I say underpowered, by the way, I mean it as in the PvE aspect.
There is also no possible way that this arena will cause any of those players that make PvP a bad thing to look up from their other games for more than a second. Those people play PvP to be jerks or for the rewards. There is no way to get rewards in this arena as far as I hear, and they couldn't be jerks because the arena is ultra-consentual.
So, really, I must ask, why the fuss? Why shoot down something that those maxxed players might have some fun with? Why ruin the fun for those who *gasp* like the idea of an arena such as this? Tell me, Why?

[Crazyfingers]

I have a question for those who think this little pet-project arena will "ruin the game" or some other tripe like that: "What is the big deal?"
It's completely and absolutely avoidable.
It's been stated in different ways by different devs that this is not a balancing tool. Why are you so afraid of balancing anyways? Some classes/builds are obviously underpowered compared to others, why not give everyone a chance to fight at the same level? In fact, balancing doesn't even have to 'nerf,' all it has to do is 'bulk up' weaker players. When I say underpowered, by the way, I mean it as in the PvE aspect.
There is also no possible way that this arena will cause any of those players that make PvP a bad thing to look up from their other games for more than a second. Those people play PvP to be jerks or for the rewards. There is no way to get rewards in this arena as far as I hear, and they couldn't be jerks because the arena is ultra-consentual.
So, really, I must ask, why the fuss? Why shoot down something that those maxxed players might have some fun with? Why ruin the fun for those who *gasp* like the idea of an arena such as this? Tell me, Why?

Again you are answering your own question. First you say that it isnt being used as a balancing tool. Then you say that all the classes need to be balanced. Some classes are NUKERS, some classes are TANKS, some classes are SUPPORTERS. Not all classes are EQUAL and never will be! You know what a group hunt of high levels consists of right now? A bunch of NUKER builds casting darkcyclone and bombs and one hit Dragons.

Each class should have their own purpose not be balanced on how fast they can take down a mob.

If the Arena is just for fun, why not bring it to Chaos, Order, and Unity?

NimKhazad

[Zarcharien]

I support this new feature of pvp and extend my thanks to the dev(s?) that made it possible. I don't care much for pvp myself nor participate in it much, but in this case I don't forsee it causing any kind of harm to our game or our strong well established community. I believe and hope it would take more then just a little harmless pvp arena on a live server to tear this community down. Just seems to me to be some harmless sideshow fun for some of the players who wish to participate in it for whatever reason. I say bring it to the live servers as is and be done with it and move on.

Zar

[Rhaiannon]

Some of you dont realize what you have. Yougot handed a ball to play with and now complain that the color of the ball isnt to your liking, or its underinflated, or its got stripes instead of spots!

Now me, I took the ball and played with it. Had a great pvp fight against Lex Divinia on blight, I won, becauseI resisted one of her archer stuns (yay) and managed to get a gold rage off which downed her damage.



Did i get griefed: No
Did i Grief Lex: No

Was it easy to get to the arena: Yes
Could someone go there accidentaly: Not a snowball's chance in hell.

Will it cause a sense of discord amongst players: Yes, just like it is here, because some people justlive to complain.

Will it cause a sense of unity amongst the players: Yes, being able to settle the "im better than you because i have this and you dont" grudges that littlekids bring up and proving that your just as good, or learning what it takes to counter such spells or abilities to make yourself just as good, is a priceless ability

Is there any reward: No, but I did propose a token to be placed in your inventory upon wining that would get you an emblem with "XYZ the Gladiator" or something similar. No loot to speak of, no looting players, no going to get some "uber" piece of gear from some trainer that only deals with pvpers, just a title, right along the lines of "Private XYZ of the Kion Militia"

DoI like PVP: Yes
Do I like kids who grief and bug constantly: NO

Will there be griefing: If a lvl 1 decides to play in combat and gets in a team opposing a lvl 100, it wont be much fun, so heres my proposal to smeglor: Make the islands based on rating so that chars from rating 1 to 20 get one island, 21 to 40 get another on up to 100+ ratings on the final island. This way, it eliminates a good portion of the "So and so killed me and he was 78387456352 times my level, WAAAAAAH!!!" crowd

Will it foster problems with dragons v Bipeds: Probably, but not in the bad way. I fought a biped, and won. next one I fight I might lose. Will it bug me? no, it meansI need a different strategy for fighting PersonalJustice then I do for fighting an elar, (who btw can kill PJ *snicker*)

Will it cause pvp fans to come over in droves and polute the game with "uber" this and "leet" that: No, there is no reward for fighing in pvp other than the feeling of hey, I died to this guy before and now i can take him using a new technique. or, Sweet, I finally took down PersonalJustice! (im still working on that one)

Will it bring in casual PVP fans who will mostly play pve and duel occasionally: I hope so, they are the best kind.

Will it cause players to leave: of course, there are always players who say if this happens im going to leave, but they tend to come back a week or two later because this is still one of the, if not THE, best pve game out there for MMO's.

Does it need a war: YES!!!

Will looking at how players fight help this: Definatly, have you tried to take out the mobs out by the outpost and just as you finish fighting a healer walks in and rezes the warrior or mage then they both fight together with the healer healing? Its a blast! Find me another game that has that.

Now, in conclusion, Im a pvp fan, but i didnt want pvp in horizons because i knew what it meant from other games. However, if Smeglor can, (in his off time) get this working to where the ratings are split a bit to prevent griefers, and gets it working nicely, i'm all for this form of pvp since, with no rewards, it will keep the leet kids at bay.

To me it sounds like the majority of you anti PVP folk havent even tried this arena, its fun, theres no way to get here accidentally, and almost no chance of any griefing happening. Its a novelty for players to test their skills against other players or settle a dispute that would otherwise fester. As for me, i loved seeing how i rank against other players, especiallybipeds, and now have moved to the dragon damage is fine community. see, its beneficial [:P]

Will it cause a problem in game: doubtful
Will it bring an influx of casual pvpers?: I sure hope so, hz needs all the players it can get!

Wow, this got longer thanI thought it would. Hope that helps this discussion, and no this isnt pointed at anyone or is it meant to be provacative.[:D]

[Hal`cyon Sskyler]

I think I can safely say I agree with CrazyFingers and BKBansai here. [:P]

IMMHO its not whether PvP is fun, good, exciting, (insert superlative here). Its the fact that there are so many other things that NEED fixed, and NEED developer attention BEFORE this gets any. And its the fact that its getting ANY developer attention demonstrates that its been placed higher up on the priority list than LONG standing issues that even now are begging for attention. Ponder this, think about all the assets that were involved in the creation of the arena, the coding, etc. Your going to tell me that it was ALL done 'off the clock'? Certainly the art efforts could have been spent on dragon lairs or other art actually needed in game, true? Ponder that for a moment.

I'm getting dizzy from the all the circles.

We already proved this wasn't done on Company time. Smeglor saw the opportunity to make a neat little testing environment and did the modifications to the new Aegis code to accomodate the buffs that allow players to attack each other. It was simple enough that he did the work during his lunch break and off-time. That's seriously the only thing that needed to be done for this. The island would take no more than a few minutes to make, NPC's can just be copied and adjusted to give the team buffs, and there was no need to make new artwork for this. The people responsible for lairs (David's placing them now), confectioner (Manga+), and any other projects aren't being swallowed up by Smeglor's little side-project.

[AA0]

An arena style PvP isn't bad, however the complete lack of control that could, and will happen isn't going to be fun. There is no way to lock sides so someone else can't rush in and just grief someone, there are no options at all. And no matter how many disclaimers are put on this feature, it will be abused, people will get upset.

It will be a nice addition, but it will have to be worked on more before it could realistically go to live and not make people furious.

[imported_Leannae]

Arena style PvP is part of medieval history which Horizon's does leans towards. Would it make it any different if they named it the Jousting ring?

Knight tournaments were part of everyday entertainment. It's really no different. 2 or more knights have paid to enter the tournament. They aren't going to come and drag you by the ear and force you to participate.

But I tend to agree as a class balancing tool when nearly everyone is multiclasses to the eyeballs is going to be kind of hard to do. Between carry over abilities and cross over skills, how can you get an honest idea of which class needs more balance?

[LexDivinia]

Now me, I took the ball and played with it. Had a great pvp fight against Lex Divinia on blight, I won, becauseI resisted one of her archer stuns (yay) and managed to get a gold rage off which downed her damage.

Now for the ranters:

Did i get griefed: No
Did i Grief Lex: No

Did I whine when I died (to a dragon, no less)? No.

That was my first pvp fight... ever, and I died, and I thought it was great! I went to work that afternoon and came back to play more that evening. I had soooo much fun! I actually had to THINK about how to take down my opponent rather than just plucking off arrows and casting spells at the right time. And what worked the first time, did not always work the second time![:|] Imagine that.

I also enjoyed it because even though I got a few dp's, I knew I could not be looted. So there was no loss. Most importantly, I learned a bit about how my attacks affect the other characters, something I would not have seen from the AI in mobs.

Do I want this on Chaos? Nah, not really. But I would not complain if it did make it there.

I have not heard a single person in game say anything in the nature of griefing in respect to going to the arena. Not to say that it won't happen, but I think the Hz community has proven it is more mature than that and that type of behavior is frowned upon. (In the same way that begging is nipped in the bud, so should griefing.)

Now, if anybody sees me in game (whether I am on Blight or on Chaos) and you wanna have fun, just let me know and we can meet in the arena and have a BLAST! I am hoping that future character copies results in a large number of players migrating to Blight for a change of pace. I just hope the native Blighters don't think we are trying to take over, I know it is their home and do not want to ruin it for them. [:P]

As for the people so completely against this: go to the arena, and try it at least ONCE. Then post a report on it, and if you still don't like it, then say you don't like it and don't want it in game and move on. But if you have not been... [:#]

LexDivinia
Chaos

[LaughingOtter]

I doubt there will be any other systems put into place to make the arena more like traditional PvP. That's not what it's intended to be. It's a testing tool that we get to play with. It has as much in common with traditional PvP as paintball does with front-line combat.

[Ishar Xhaan]

I think a little bit supid and over dramatic are all these reactions " if it comess live i quit with 500 guildies " and such ....
As long as it is on an arena on a remote island, where nothing else is I dont see how it could grief the ones that dont want to take part .
Now it would give us adventurers some real challenges in fight, because even the outpost mobs are stupid, it is just about feedback and having fun it doesnt harm anyone. Dont be so integrist. It is CLEARLY mentioned that it wont nerf anyone cause of imbalance, so really not worth to complain that much. If it makes it to live, then its good news for fun, if it doesnt well it doesnt and so be it.
And crying like this for people who pretend being part of a mature community aint so mature.

[Thormor]

Thanks for clearing everything up! :D i knew nothing of how the PvP was taking place on blight , wether it was through the whole of istaria or just an island. I think that if PvP does come to the live server, which doesnt look like its gonna happen, not many people will be as affercted as they think, due to its remote location on a small island. I personally was thinkin i was gonna be lookin over my shoulder every few minutes to see if someone was comin after me but the assurance of it being on an island changes alot.[|-)]