Chat log from the Confectioners Meeting Last Friday

[Theolaerynn]

What do you confectioners think of this differentiation of Food -vs- Drink:

Food - Reduces death points and death effects
Drink - Reduces non-death related timers
Combined food (meals) - One package that gives the benefits of each item in the meal. Basically, single food bulk with multiple food effects.

An example of drink would be like reducing the reset timer for your next sprint, reducing timers for special abilities (like Superior Rez), stuff like that.

Having drink reduce timers fits with how drink actually works - fast to digest, so fast acting. It wouldn't be a buff, so would not interfere with other classes, but would compliment them instead. For instance, you are not giving a Superior Rez potion or effect, but you are providing a service to the healer so they can pop off the rez faster. Say, 1 minute reduction per tier for Super Rez, with a 15 minute timer between being able to suck down that particular drink.

That would provide a tangible difference between the food and drink, and provide a very valuable service.

An example of a combined meal would be The Healers Buffette: Several Tier V foods able to greatly reduce or even remove a death point, removes the death effect caused by < 10 death points, and has a Tier V Super Rez Timer Reducer drink. This meal could be restricted to an active healing school, but either way the net effect would be to greatly reduce a death point, remove death effects, and chop 5 minutes off of the Super Rez reset. This would be a boon to healers since they often do not get a super rez themselves, if they even get rezed at all. And the fact that it is a meal would mean minimal inventory impact.

Whatcha think?

[QuO_Strata]

As a Confectioner I want to make things that are useful and not just for selling to the PB for profit. Those sound like useful things to me, both as an Adventurer and a Confectioner. The bottom line question however is what do the Adventurers or even Crafters who will use these items think. If they don't buy it, just as they're not buying the food I'm trying to sell now, then it's just another PB grinder and really doesn't enhance the game.

[Theolaerynn]

I don't craft much, so cannot speak to that part of it, but as an Adventurer I would definitely purchase timer reducers for a couple of abilities (Breath of Lightning, Personal Regen, Instant Heal). I know my wife (single school level 100 Healer) would definitely go for a timer reducer on the Super Rez.

[Seranthor]

All well and good Theolaerynn, but there aren't any t5 foods in existence on any live server yet, although Expert finishing forms for everything else have existed for more than 15 months.

[Theolaerynn]

No sense making forms when you don't know what they are going to do. Seems like that is what this thread is for, figuring out what they want to do so they have a direction when they revamp the school shortly.

[QuO_Strata]

I almost forgot to mention this. It's related to this entire thread and others I believe but surely belongs here. Nerfing and reverse-nerfing are not the best ways to fix things I think, but rather adjusting the rewards accordingly for those schools that are more difficult. Please don't make the Confectioner school any easier to level. Not every school HAS to be as easy or difficult as the others. Some have put a lot of work into it and it would be an injustice to enable others to do in a few weeks what some have spent months on. Confectioner has been well named the "stepchild" school if there ever was one and it's been like that a very long time. Having some schools that are not as easy to level as others serves as a niche for those who have the temperment and ambition to join them. Glad this school has some changes coming butdon't add insult to injury by negating all the hard work some have put into it.

Same should go for any other craft or adventure schools that might be a bit harder than others. All of them should have some reward that fits the achievement.

[Sajid]

Glad this school has some changes coming butdon't add insult to injury by negating all the hard work some have put into it.

Same should go for any other craft or adventure schools that might be a bit harder than others. All of them should have some reward that fits the achievement.

You mean like anything metal related before/after mithril became an alloy? How about my old Aug iron runs - was either that or the Kion pig pen?

Or perhaps running all the way to eastern blight for maple and iron silk?

Or perhaps you mean like every single adv class pre/post merge? You remember - back when one class at level 100 was a rare sight.

I see no reason why confectioner should be immune to becoming more "user friendly" so the original folks can feel esteemed for hours invested. We should aspire to a better game and new folks... not "I did it the hard way so everyone else should too."

Respectfully,

[QuO_Strata]

You make some good points Sajid.I see no reason why each and every school has to be about as easy as the others to master but once they start doing all the nerfing and reverse-nerfing it's perhaps a bit too late to make exceptions down the road. I'm not saying "I did it the hard way so everyone else should too." I'm saying some things are not broken so don't fix them; difficult is not the same as broken.

To address your points, I'm not sure that we can accurately compare resource locations and resource availability to a school that was never completed. I won't address the adventure side as that is a much different issue IMO. In your crafting examples the maple should not have been more difficult than the yew to gather so it had to be fixed if that was the case. There was no maple in the Feladan - Harton Valley area then? Ironsilk has always been quite the chore so I don't see where that has been fixed much or needs to be fixed. The metals have almost always been screwed up to some extent and since many schools need ore, I think making some of it easier was a necessity. Metal is used in more crafting than any other resource so I think they had to get that right even if it meant a low level could easily catch up with a higher level (an unfortunate necessity IMO).

There is no good way to compare any of those things to what needs to be done with the confectioner school. If we did compare based on resources, confectioner resources are actually easier than they should be because all of the meats are basically tier one and you don't have to fight any mobs to gather them. The only tier'd ingredients in foods are the clay and fish, but you don't have to use fish by any means. The school should be even more difficult I think... BUT still we need those expert and master forms. All of the other schools have had expert forms for a very long time now.

Adjustments in the past have hurt those who worked hard to achieve something. I feel most of those adjustments were somewhat necessary. I think most confectioners are looking to simply have what others have had for a long time, the T5 forms (and soon T6) and useful products to make so we can participate in the economy. If it makes anyone happier, those things in themselves should make it much easier to get confectioner to L100.

[Guaran]

My ideas (posted over the last year) recapped.

1) Remove the level restriction from foods. This was even a level 1 Confectioner can fix something useable by a lvl 100 adventurer. This also helps simplify food since currently it's complicated and not at all uer friendly.

2) Each successive tier of foods will increase the amount of time removed from DP. This fits in hand with removing the level restrictions

3) SIGNIFICANTLY increase the time removed compared to existing foods.

4)Have the Tavern give a "shop bonus" to food eaten there, Perhaps 50% extra time removed for Beginner Tavern, 100% extra time removed for Journeyman Tavern, 150% for Expert Tavern. This would give the structure extra purpose, and promote to the selling of foods there instead of at plain consignors.


As far as ambrosia goes, I don't really see it necessary to remove it. Just harder to make or acquire. It is after all, food of the gods. Probably shouldn't have ever been player craftable. Reduce the drop rate of EoB maybe. Or increase the number needed. Funnily, the did the opposite not long ago, where now you get more spirit oil per EoB than previously. And this was a suggestion of a confectioner :boggles:

[PJ]

I can't make any suggestions from the crafter side of confectioner, but I can from the user side.

1.) Vastly increase the useablity and effectiveness of food. As a user, I don't want to have to carry around 40 stacks of food, not to mention the bulk. And have to use each of those stacks like every 10 minutes. That's a pain. It doesn't need to have the 1-click simplicity of ambrosia, but there's a healthy middle ground.

2.)Make food reduce the length of the death penalty. Or if that's not possible technologically, give food a % chance to remove it.

3.) Either decrease the rate of deathpoint decay, Increase the length of the points, and or increase the strength of the penalty. As it stands the penalty for dying is laughable until you get like a huge amount of death points. Its DEATH, now while i'm not a permadeath advocate. And I'm not advocating loss of coin, items, experience, etc. But it should be something to be avoided, not laughed at.

4.) Ambrosia: Remove Vendors. Increase the refresh time greatly. At least 2 hours per useage. Remove EoB from resources.

Rework the ambrosia forms to use "tiered EoB": dim essence of blight, pale eob, glowing eob. Then put those "tiered EoB in the WA loot tables. (EoB are tiered to prevent low tier WA farming for regular EoB if EoB was just moved to the loot tables). And I mean in the real WA loot tables, not in the laughable fyakki, tarantulas and necroflies.

[Tribunal]

2.)Make food reduce the length of the death penalty. Or if that's not possible technologically, give food a % chance to remove it.

I like that idea PJ,

Very nice meeting for the confects,its nice that this productivity exists in game.

[Krystine]

Wanted to dust this off as Velea said no record of this meeting had been kept. Hope it is of some use to the developers.

[AmonGwareth]

Holy Resurrection, Batman!

[LaughingOtter]

Wanted to dust this off as Velea said no record of this meeting had been kept. Hope it is of some use to the developers.

Velea should know better.

"Nothing is ever forgotten!!"

[Misanthrope]

Its the zombie thread! Everybody run! It wants BRRRAAAAIIINNNNSSSSS!

[LaughingOtter]

Its the zombie thread! Everybody run! It wants BRRRAAAAIIINNNNSSSSS!

Yeah, but some love and attention and a hot shower will really improve its mood...

[Dravatar]

Its the zombie thread! Everybody run! It wants BRRRAAAAIIINNNNSSSSS!

No problem. Mine have already been eaten..

[Peaches]

Yeah, but some love and attention and a hot shower will really improve its mood...

and it will definately get an improvement in mood.
*g*

[Bulgrim StoneCleaver]

Yeah, but some love and attention and a hot shower will really improve its mood...

QFT!!

[Fratricide]

QFT!!

Umm.. What does QFT mean... never seen that acronym before...